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I think the coolest part about Mario 64 is that the game has about 7 different ways to jump, and each one of them has a different use. There is just so much depth to the movement that it creates a huge skill gap and makes things really impressive. And because of the variety it makes it much more exciting to watch than other skill based movement, like bunny hoping in FPS, or Shield Dashing in SotN. The movement also leads into the level design a bit. If there were only jump, like most platformers, it is pretty easy for the levels to become pretty boring. The maximum height and distance ends up fixed so it just feels the same. With SM64, because the movement is so varied the levels end up varied as well, and then you end up with all kinds of amazing unintended solutions as a result. The Bowser levels are some of my favorites just because they are major showcases of the variety in the games platforming.
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Aug 22, 2013 02:00
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Cosmo just got the OoT any% WR, 19:15 
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Aug 22, 2013 11:11
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Man, does Pydoyks even run anymore?
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Aug 22, 2013 11:23
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Volt Catfish posted:Man, does Pydoyks even run anymore? Not with iQue. Lagless advantage OP.
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Aug 22, 2013 11:27
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Pydoyks runs all the time, he just uses a different account now. His new name is nedeahs.
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Aug 22, 2013 11:31
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Cosmo's run isn't even that impressive, even he said it's worse than shaeden's run. iQue is so dumb.
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Aug 22, 2013 12:21
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heeheex2 posted:Cosmo's run isn't even that impressive, even he said it's worse than shaeden's run. iQue is so dumb. You gunna be mad when cosmo does the same thing to Starfox 64?
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Aug 22, 2013 15:34
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Volt Catfish posted:Man, does Pydoyks even run anymore? We were just talking about him one page ago. I don't really like the iQue thing but what can you do? It's a legal version of the game. Cosmo could theoretically get a time that Pydoyks literally can't beat because of the platform difference with Cosmo still having the inferior run. I really hope this doesn't happen.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:56
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habanero walrus posted:We were just talking about him one page ago. Pydoyks could always shell out the 99 dollars to get an iQue on ebay.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:59
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habanero walrus posted:It's a legal version of the game. Is it really a legal version of the game? I thought the iQue was a fun gimmick to show off at SGDQ or whatever, but using it to claim all of the N64 world records sounds pretty lame. The logic doesn't make sense to me, aren't emulators avoided due to inconsistencies and the ability to remove lag/slow downs from games? So why does an unlicensed and unofficial system and game count?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:08
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It isn't unlicensed, Nintendo worked on it. It is an official product in China. I wonder if SM64 for it is faster than the VC version.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:09
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Jeffrey posted:It isn't unlicensed, Nintendo worked on it. It is an official product in China. I wonder if SM64 for it is faster than the VC version. Yeah, I seem to remember Cosmo explaining all this. They couldn't release it in China as a N64 due to some bans on consoles, I think, so they had to make it an all-in-one device and stuff. It's definitely a legit Nintendo product, though.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:14
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Jeffrey posted:It isn't unlicensed, Nintendo worked on it. It is an official product in China. I wonder if SM64 for it is faster than the VC version. Interesting, I assumed incorrectly then. It still kind of rubs me the wrong way.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:14
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katkillad2 posted:Is it really a legal version of the game? I thought the iQue was a fun gimmick to show off at SGDQ or whatever, but using it to claim all of the N64 world records sounds pretty lame. The logic doesn't make sense to me, aren't emulators avoided due to inconsistencies and the ability to remove lag/slow downs from games? So why does an unlicensed and unofficial system and game count? You do realize that it's pretty much only useful for any%, right? Despite its advantages, because of the incredibly long reset time it's useless for any other OoT category. It's probably not very useful for any other games, either.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:16
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I think it actually exists to curb piracy, the way you got new games for it was weird and I think involved either internet access or kiosks in gas stations which you got a code from.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:20
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Jeffrey posted:It isn't unlicensed, Nintendo worked on it. It is an official product in China. I wonder if SM64 for it is faster than the VC version. The iQue version of SM64 is the Shindou version, which is very bad.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:21
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Brett824 posted:Pydoyks could always shell out the 99 dollars to get an iQue on ebay. I don't think he gives a poo poo about actually having the record. I've never even heard him refer to any of his times as a record. They're always just PBs. It could be false modesty and I could be completely wrong though!
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Aug 22, 2013 17:27
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Running the iQue is no different than running the Japanese version. If you think that everyone should only be running the version specific to the region they live in, there is an argument to be made. Its silly to be against iQue but for Japanese though.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:49
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heeheex2 posted:Cosmo's run isn't even that impressive, even he said it's worse than shaeden's run. iQue is so dumb. In fairness, it really isn't any different from when everyone rushed over to JP.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:49
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And that's why leaderboards worth a drat carry different categories and timing methods.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:54
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Brett824 posted:The iQue version of SM64 is the Shindou version, which is very bad. But it shouldn't be if it's on iQue, right? It lags on N64 but iQue (at least for OoT) has less gameplay lag but takes longer to load. [Shindou (vibration) is the rumble pak version of the game, rereleased in Japan.] It is an official release, so it is legitimate, but I personally think that it's a bit odd since you'll only have 1-2 people playing a $100 one game console. It's not accessible and I hope people don't make it the standard. Cosmo made a blog post and a comparison video on this topic.
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Aug 22, 2013 18:40
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Keyboard Kid posted:But it shouldn't be if it's on iQue, right? It lags on N64 but iQue (at least for OoT) has less gameplay lag but takes longer to load. [Shindou (vibration) is the rumble pak version of the game, rereleased in Japan.] Text isn't a particularly huge deal in SM64, and the load times are the real killer in the version differences between VC and N64. Also, BLJ is patched which isn't a massive deal but is a relevant change (see: HMC 100 coins).
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Aug 22, 2013 18:47
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Sure, but N64 lags. A lot. The Shindou version lags a lot more than normal N64 in certain stages. Wouldn't iQue be faster for 70? edit: to be clear I never considered text and it's probably a very small difference, if it is different at all.
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Aug 22, 2013 18:55
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Keyboard Kid posted:Sure, but N64 lags. A lot. The Shindou version lags a lot more than normal N64 in certain stages. Wouldn't iQue be faster for 70? Once again, the loading times are a way bigger deal because of the amount of lag reduction you can do. You lose about a second per star on loading times alone, and loading times on iQue seem like standard N64 loading times.
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Aug 22, 2013 19:21
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Dxtr got a 10:16 on Batman.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:07
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Brett824 posted:Once again, the loading times are a way bigger deal because of the amount of lag reduction you can do. You lose about a second per star on loading times alone, and loading times on iQue seem like standard N64 loading times. I never mentioned VC. You said Shindou version is "very bad", but what would make it worse than N64 if there's no lag? That's the only issue with the Shindou version to my knowledge.
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Aug 22, 2013 21:39
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Keyboard Kid posted:I never mentioned VC. You said Shindou version is "very bad", but what would make it worse than N64 if there's no lag? That's the only issue with the Shindou version to my knowledge. BLJ is removed, load times are longer (even on VC, which is why N64-J 1.0 is considered the competitive version) and a couple other minor (aesthetic mostly) changes
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Aug 22, 2013 21:47
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Iateyourpie's stream is...something really special right now. He's trying to figure out the puzzles in Bowser's castle in SMRPG and floundering all over the place. He was trying to figure out the metal ball moving puzzle via paper and pencil, and has since upgraded to employing Cheezits.
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Aug 23, 2013 02:32
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Sinister1 is droppin some serious knowledge on MTPO. Going through each Piston Honda 2 strat and breaking everything down going to lead up to the last strat which got him the WR. I'm always down for this type of stream! 
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Aug 23, 2013 02:56
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Selane posted:Iateyourpie's stream is...something really special right now. He's trying to figure out the puzzles in Bowser's castle in SMRPG and floundering all over the place. He was trying to figure out the metal ball moving puzzle via paper and pencil, and has since upgraded to employing Cheezits. Right now he's choking at the quiz/barrel counting puzzle room, this is loving hilarious
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Aug 23, 2013 03:14
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Selane posted:Iateyourpie's stream is...something really special right now. I'm so glad I follow Pie. He just had to count a pile of barrels and... 
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Aug 23, 2013 03:19
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SevenStringGuru posted:Sinister1 is droppin some serious knowledge on MTPO. Going through each Piston Honda 2 strat and breaking everything down going to lead up to the last strat which got him the WR. I'm always down for this type of stream! He's about to show his WR video. I highly suggest people get in here to see why we care so much about the depth of this game. https://www.twitch.tv/sinisterwon
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Aug 23, 2013 03:38
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Jakuvious posted:In fairness, it really isn't any different from when everyone rushed over to JP. I seriously don't get why some people are so annoyed by his new record. How is it different from using the different cart versions. Speed running is about getting the fastest time, Cosmo used the best official version of the game to do that.
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Aug 23, 2013 04:05
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Does the iQue record wipe out an N64 record?
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Aug 23, 2013 04:29
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Romscout got the WR on Order of Ecclesia last night (58:06): http://www.twitch.tv/romscout/c/2797011 Definitely room for improvement. Looks like he's going to try again tonight.
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Aug 23, 2013 04:46
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hitze posted:Does the iQue record wipe out an N64 record? So there's no "N64" record and "iQue" record, there's just "Ocarina of Time" record, and if the record is performed on an iQue then that's the way it is.
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Aug 23, 2013 04:55
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I did state this before, but:quote:It is an official release, so it is legitimate, but I personally think that it's a bit odd since you'll only have 1-2 people playing a $100 one game console. It's not accessible and I hope people don't make it the standard. The carts are cheap (sometimes cheaper than the US version) and it's not like there's really any barrier to entry. Getting a time that's 13 seconds better isn't worth a $100 brick to me. Again, I am not debating the legitimacy of the iQue. People are bothered by it being claimed a 'world record' (bad idea with version differences involved) when the gameplay wasn't as fast or good. Many game communities choose not to use the fastest official version of a game for a number of reasons. The Mega Man collections are probably the most notable -- for a few games, they change the gameplay a lot by adding features like L/R weapon select (these would be separate categories, but the same game). They also have no lag, which makes them incomparable to the originals. Reducing lag is a very neat element of speedrunning, and for games like X2 and X3 it's a pretty big deal. Most people simply prefer the original for competitive reasons, and as a bonus, it means they can compete with Japanese players who didn't see those collection releases. I personally haven't tested most of the Mega Man Anniversary Collection stuff, but I know at least one of the games (Mega Man 7) is poorly emulated, resulting in input lag (very noticeable) and botched sound effects. edit: kaschei posted:My understanding is that to avoid tedious internet arguments and redundant records and ever-branching subcategorization, SDA doesn't discriminate between platforms as long as it's an official release of the game. So if you think that so-and-so is saving 2 frames per door due to a bug in the Genesis version 1.0 of Time Attackers II (JP) you don't make a "Time Attackers II (SNES) (JP) (v1.1 DOOR BUG FIX)" category, you just buy a Japanese Genesis and cart if you really want that world record. Not sure if it's what you're saying here, but SDA is not a World Records site. If the iQue record is worse than the VC record, but faster in raw time, it would not go on SDA. Same with the small version differences, if the timing is clear-cut (2 frames per door), especially if the run is actually not as good. Keyboard Kid fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Aug 23, 2013 |
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Aug 23, 2013 04:59
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nerve posted:I seriously don't get why some people are so annoyed by his new record. How is it different from using the different cart versions. Speed running is about getting the fastest time, Cosmo used the best official version of the game to do that. Because people aren't crazy about buying a $100 console just to have a shot at the record, obviously. At least a japanese cart can be played in a US console without too much hassle. Not everything has to be black and white when it comes to things like that; it's not like there's a governing body laying down these rules. Of course it's easy enough to label one as the iQue record and one as the N64 record and be done with it. Who really cares which is the "REAL oot record"? The only difference is just one will get listed on SDA but the idea of going there to find "the best" run of a given game is dumb anyway.
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Aug 23, 2013 05:07
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that Vai sound posted:Romscout got the WR on Order of Ecclesia last night (58:06): http://www.twitch.tv/romscout/c/2797011
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Aug 23, 2013 05:09
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wa27 posted:Of course it's easy enough to label one as the iQue record and one as the N64 record and be done with it. Who really cares which is the "REAL oot record"? The only difference is just one will get listed on SDA but the idea of going there to find "the best" run of a given game is dumb anyway. On the future SRL Leaderboards they'd be in order of time by default. For Mario 64, people are currently calling the fastest time (VC or N64) "world record" which apparently makes people real mad. As a speedrunner you probably don't care about what the random viewer/stream chatter has to say about it, or who they think is the best.
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Aug 23, 2013 05:16
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