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Jeffrey posted:Marijuana has nothing to do with the left. Which party is more friendly is a matter of history, not ideology. It's a social issue, which is why the people who support relaxing marijuana laws tend to be "progressives" or libertarian-leaning conservatives.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:54
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computer parts posted:Basically the only determining factor for 2016 is going to be the results of the 2014 election, and there will be only two possible decisions based on that election, and I can basically guarantee that "legalizing marijuana" will not be part of the national platform. Yeah I'm not saying it will happen anytime soon. Really it would be a gentleman's bet since I don't expect such a bill to exist for a long time, if ever.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:00
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Miltank posted:I have long suspected that republicans are going loop right back around to the left of Obama on accident. The future leftist party of the USA will be the Republican Party after their POLITICAL_IDEOLOGY overflows and wraps around to anarchism. Completely unsurprised that Obama is a shithead on drug policy though. Doesn't poll quite strongly enough yet and he'd have to deal with the fallout of changing drug schedules as a black president.
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Aug 22, 2013 16:13
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computer parts posted:Basically the only determining factor for 2016 is going to be the results of the 2014 election, and there will be only two possible decisions based on that election, and I can basically guarantee that "legalizing marijuana" will not be part of the national platform. Why? Do you really not think that there will be a tipping point where the corporations that want pot legalized for profit manage to build enough influence to change the positions of one of the major parties? Living in a swing state like Colorado where Obama won basically on the vote of the youth. It appears to me that the GOP is going to have to move towards being a libertarian option, especially if the Democrats keep pursuing conservative policy. The legalization of drugs could be a way to revitalize the demographics of the GOP, which suffers when it comes to young progressive voters. Considering how poo poo poor the progressive bones are that the Democrats throw, why wouldn't the GOP start doing it? quote:Completely unsurprised that Obama is a shithead on drug policy though. Doesn't poll quite strongly enough yet and he'd have to deal with the fallout of changing drug schedules as a black president. Yeah, that fallout would be nasty. I mean, Fox News would definitely run some pretty nasty attack ads. Definitely not worth pardoning the tens(hundreds?) of thousands of non-violent offenders in jail due to smoking the same goddamn thing he did. Definitely not worth attempting to reform the biggest domestic public policy debacle of the past forty years. It's not like we need the additional revenue. Plus, just because we imprison more of our citizens per capita than any country on Earth, doesn't mean we can't step that sucker up a notch. Yes siree, that fallout would be terrible! Vote team blue! We'll defeat those dastardly Republicans some day. a lovely poster fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 16:24
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a lovely poster posted:Yeah, that fallout would be nasty. I mean, Fox News would definitely run some pretty nasty attack ads. Definitely not worth pardoning the tens(hundreds?) of thousands of non-violent offenders in jail due to smoking the same goddamn thing he did. Definitely not worth attempting to reform the biggest domestic public policy debacle of the past forty years. It's not like we need the additional revenue. Plus, just because we imprison more of our citizens per capita than any country on Earth, doesn't mean we can't step that sucker up a notch. Didn't say I agreed with it. Just saying Obama does have a history of this kind of political cowardice so I don't know why anyone is surprised.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:13
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a lovely poster posted:It appears to me that the GOP is going to have to move towards being a libertarian option, especially if the Democrats keep pursuing conservative policy. The legalization of drugs could be a way to revitalize the demographics of the GOP, which suffers when it comes to young progressive voters. Considering how poo poo poor the progressive bones are that the Democrats throw, why wouldn't the GOP start doing it? The same reason they won't accept minorites: Because a majority of their current base won't support it. The GOP is not just party executives, it's every voter that they have, and a lot of these voters have been conditioned that Drugs Are Bad and they will gladly support someone that doesn't call for legalization and the party executives don't control the primaries, the voters do.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:19
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Didn't say I agreed with it. Just saying Obama does have a history of this kind of political cowardice so I don't know why anyone is surprised. "Cowardice"? What would you have Obama do?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:19
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Do what's right instead of what gets his approval rating up.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:21
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Jeffrey posted:Do what's right instead of what gets his approval rating up. And what would that be?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:21
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Pardon nonviolent offenders with huge prison sentences which Obama himself has said were unfair and discriminatory?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:22
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Does the president have enough authority to get the FDA to reschedule marijuana away from schedule 1? Or start the process?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:25
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Jeffrey posted:Pardon nonviolent offenders with huge prison sentences which Obama himself has said were unfair and discriminatory? How many of those are actually in federal prison?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:27
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The X-man cometh posted:Does the president have enough authority to get the FDA to reschedule marijuana away from schedule 1? Or start the process? The executive has unilateral power to reschedule drugs, so yeah he can do as he pleases without congress on this issue. computer parts posted:How many of those are actually in federal prison? Drug Offenses: 89,669 (46.8 %) http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 17:28
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The X-man cometh posted:Does the president have enough authority to get the FDA to reschedule marijuana away from schedule 1? Or start the process? Absolutely. Every day Obama doesn't push for it he is directly and unmistakably supporting and advocating the war on drugs. Same for every single elected official in the entire government. The only reason they don't do something is because they are morally bankrupt politicians in the pockets of corporate interests. This is not hyperbole, it is the sad, Awful truth. Obama is quite happy about the hundreds of thousands of nonviolent drug offenders in jail and is not only complicit in their situation but directly responsible for it. He has the power to change it, and he does not, and he also thinks it is funny!
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Aug 22, 2013 17:30
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The X-man cometh posted:Does the president have enough authority to get the FDA to reschedule marijuana away from schedule 1? Or start the process? He can just sign an executive order. The FDA does not maintain scheduling - the DEA does, without any required outside input, so he only has to order the DEA to deschedule/reschedule it and it is done.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:30
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computer parts posted:How many of those are actually in federal prison? Federal prison has a much higher ratio of nonviolent:violent than state prison does, at least according to "drugwarfacts.org". Their number is ~1/3. No idea how reliable they are, and obviously this is raw drug offenses, not just ones that are "disproportionate"(I think they all are). quote:(Drug Offenders in US Prisons 2011)
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Aug 22, 2013 17:31
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Jeffrey posted:Federal prison has a much higher ratio of nonviolent:violent than state prison does, at least according to "drugwarfacts.org". No idea how reliable they are. I'm not talking about ratios, though, I'm talking about how many people are the "caught in possession of weed and sentenced to 15 years" type in federal prison? Or to put it more clearly, how many of the non-violent drug offenders in prison are there for reasons other than just possession (for example, distribution)?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:33
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computer parts posted:I'm not talking about ratios, though, I'm talking about how many people are the "caught in possession of weed and sentenced to 15 years" type in federal prison? Or to put it more clearly, how many of the non-violent drug offenders in prison are there for reasons other than just possession (for example, distribution)?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:40
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I've always wondered (and I apologize if it was answered in an earlier page of the thread): Why aren't cigarette companies hurling money hand over fist to get marijuana legalized? There's the legend/rumor/whatever that Phillip Morris et. al have the copyrights to various weed names ready to go; I'll assume that's false, but wouldn't they want to use their existing supply chain to easily just start growing weed and making tons of money? Yes, the price of weed would go down because of supply, and the ability to grow it yourself, but shouldn't they be all about legalization?
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Aug 22, 2013 17:41
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computer parts posted:The same reason they won't accept minorites: Because a majority of their current base won't support it. The GOP is not just party executives, it's every voter that they have, and a lot of these voters have been conditioned that Drugs Are Bad and they will gladly support someone that doesn't call for legalization and the party executives don't control the primaries, the voters do. I think the situation for those two issues is way different, with regard to minorities it seems like the party executives are desperately trying to improve their image while the base is violently resisting. On drug issues the party executives are basically silent or unsupportive of reform while among the base there is actually a surprising level of support for dialing back the drug war.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:43
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MaxxBot posted:I think the situation for those two issues is way different, with regard to minorities it seems like the party executives are desperately trying to improve their image while the base is violently resisting. On drug issues the party executives are basically silent or unsupportive of reform while among the base there is actually a surprising level of support for dialing back the drug war. And that's because the executives haven't tried to push it. The problem with the GOP is that they are unable to move anywhere to improve their base numbers and their current base is dying.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:45
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SgtScruffy posted:I've always wondered (and I apologize if it was answered in an earlier page of the thread): Why aren't cigarette companies hurling money hand over fist to get marijuana legalized? Because they are primarily in the business of growing tobacco and their money is better spent trying to persuade third worlders to have a fag.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:47
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SgtScruffy posted:I've always wondered (and I apologize if it was answered in an earlier page of the thread): Why aren't cigarette companies hurling money hand over fist to get marijuana legalized? Once taxes increase/usage declines on cigarettes to the point where the margins on selling marijuana are more profitable it will be legalized.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:48
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SgtScruffy posted:I've always wondered (and I apologize if it was answered in an earlier page of the thread): Why aren't cigarette companies hurling money hand over fist to get marijuana legalized? It's not like Phillip Morris has a sterling reputation to look out for either. Also those trademark rumors are probably not true but "Camel Highs" and "Marlboro Greens" practically write themselves. Computer parts, I'm purposely not limiting my claim to "possession of marijuana" convictions. Obama himself has pointed out the discriminatory nature of cocaine vs crack sentencing, but hasn't done anything for those already convicted for it. I stop at "drug offenses" because that is sufficient for it to be an unethical conviction to me.
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Aug 22, 2013 17:49
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Monsanto being behind an advertising push to legalize feels like one of those deal with the devil type things that would probably make a lot of pro-legalization people nervous.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:09
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SgtScruffy posted:I've always wondered (and I apologize if it was answered in an earlier page of the thread): Why aren't cigarette companies hurling money hand over fist to get marijuana legalized? I don't think tobacco companies want people smoking an plant that isn't nearly as habit forming as tobacco. I've never met a 2pack a day joint smoker (except when I chill with Juicy j i guess).
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Aug 22, 2013 22:57
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Jeffrey posted:I think it is unlikely but not impossible. I don't think predicting what the republican party will do for 2016/2020/etc is very tenable at this point, a lot can happen in that time. I don't think it is the likely outcome but if you gave me like 2.5:1 odds I'd bet :tenbux: that the future federal weed legalization bill has at least as many republicans as democrats voting yes. This assumes the RNC will exist as a national party by 2020. I wouldn't take that bet.
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Aug 22, 2013 22:58
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the black husserl posted:I don't think tobacco companies want people smoking an plant that isn't nearly as habit forming as tobacco. I've never met a 2pack a day joint smoker (except when I chill with Juicy j i guess). Speak for yourself, I've known plenty of people who blast through more than an ounce every three weeks and I've done the same myself. I don't smoke cigarettes and never, ever will. But if weed was in the gas station with it I'd be smoking fifteen joints a day.
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Aug 22, 2013 23:45
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You really shouldn't do that. Not because of physical detriments, though I'm sure there are some, but because its symptomatic of escapism which like all things should be a "sometimes" thing.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:52
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Powercrazy posted:You really shouldn't do that. Not because of physical detriments, though I'm sure there are some, but because its symptomatic of escapism which like all things should be a "sometimes" thing. Uh, or I just really like weed? Thanks for the "advice"?
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Aug 23, 2013 00:53
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I guess my perspective is different because the accessibility of weed isn't the only thing stopping me from being in a 24hr greenout.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:09
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Powercrazy posted:I guess my perspective is different because the accessibility of weed isn't the only thing stopping me from being in a 24hr greenout. Look, you need to step back and realize you're actively trying to shame me because I like weed so much I would smoke it a lot every day. I am successful and productive in my life in literally any metric you'd care to name, and the only thing you know about me is that I really like marijuana. Does this really seem ok to you? It's just unconsciously buying into 'weed is bad hurrrr' propaganda that you actually don't support. And it's kind of nasty and definitely not appreciated, because it gets really loving old having to carefully couch my opinions about weed so that people don't instantly assume I'm just some stoner hippy loser. empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 23, 2013 |
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Aug 23, 2013 01:18
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If you are super successful on every possible metric, what is stopping you from smoking 15 joints a day right now, why is the availability of weed in a gas station going to change your habits?
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Aug 23, 2013 01:21
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Powercrazy posted:If you are super successful on every possible metric, what is stopping you from smoking 15 joints a day right now, why is the availability of weed in a gas station going to change what your habits? If weed was legal, I wouldn't have to hide my use of it. Right now, I am living in a place I don't feel comfortable smoking. It is my own space, but because it's illegal here, I can't smoke it. Is this a difficult concept? empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 23, 2013 |
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Aug 23, 2013 01:23
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the black husserl posted:I don't think tobacco companies want people smoking an plant that isn't nearly as habit forming as tobacco. I've never met a 2pack a day joint smoker (except when I chill with Juicy j i guess). I know people who smoke a quarter a week which is a lot and plenty more who do an eighth a week, it might not be as habit forming but it can also be difficult to quit because there's little motivation to. I've been a daily smoker for about three years and just recently started to cut back because I think I've been using it too much for escapism and the money saved doesn't hurt either (quite considerable when you build up a tolerance like mine). It never negatively affected my career, strict workout/diet routine, social life, etc while being tons of fun which is part of the reason why I had been a heavy user for so long. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Aug 23, 2013 |
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Aug 23, 2013 01:46
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Powercrazy posted:If you are super successful on every possible metric, what is stopping you from smoking 15 joints a day right now, why is the availability of weed in a gas station going to change your habits? Because as the risk/cost of things that consumers desire get lower, consumers are more likely to use/buy them. Welcome to reality, enjoy your stay.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:54
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Dear god, it's as though all recreational drugs have potential for abuse but this fact alone does not mean they should be illegal, or that people should be put in prison for it, or that it's wise to use it to a great extent just because you can!
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Aug 23, 2013 02:00
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Dear god, it's as though all recreational drugs have potential for abuse but this fact alone does not mean they should be illegal, or that people should be put in prison for it, or that it's wise to use it to a great extent just because you can! This idea is literally laughable in "realistic" political circles. 
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Aug 23, 2013 02:03
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a lovely poster posted:This idea is literally laughable in "realistic" political circles. It's not like we're locking up any future presidents of the united states here!
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Aug 23, 2013 02:09
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Warchicken posted:Look, you need to step back and realize you're actively trying to shame me because I like weed so much I would smoke it a lot every day. I am successful and productive in my life in literally any metric you'd care to name, and the only thing you know about me is that I really like marijuana. Does this really seem ok to you? What is funny is that if you replaced weed with beer, no one say a thing about it.
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Aug 23, 2013 17:56
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