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Oh, I've never said being focused is bad. I mean there's a reason I've been hatin' against over- specialized characters. Every character wants to be really good at something (for Mr Lucky it more like good at 2-ish things, but in a somewhat limited way). My problem has always been characters who only have that something. The brick wall with a gun example - a character who could be replaced by a walking wall with a gun sticking out of it, and doesn't have the skills or attributes to actually do anything for themselves. And quite frankly I do plan on increasing some of those 1's as I gain karma. Probably not past 4, I readily admit - but the 1 is only for coming out of chargen.
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Aug 24, 2013 06:32
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I'd say she's close, but not yet actually, over-specializing. I mean, in terms of having well-rounded abilities, this is what I was putting together for that latest recruit before I got distracted thinking about Adepts (I'll spare you the equipment list):pre:Metatype: C Magic: E Skills: B Attributes: A Resources: D Attributes (24; Priority A/Metatype: Priority C) Metatype: Ork Body: 6 [2] Agility: 5 [4] Reaction: 6 [5] Strength: 4 [1] Willpower: 3 [2] Logic: 4 [3] Intuition: 5 [4] Charisma: 2 [1] Edge: 2 [0]-- -10 Karma Qualities Quick Healer [-03 Karma] Toughness [-09 Karma] Allergy [+05 Karma] Uncommon (Pollen), Minor Insomnia [+10 Karma] Skills (36/5; Priority B; -8 Karma) Active Skills- Armorer 4, Computers 2, Demolitions 5, Firearms Skill Group 5, First Aid 4, Heavy Weapons 5, Palming 4, Perception 4, Running 4, Throwing 4, Unarmed Combat 2 Languages- English N, Japanese (Cityspeak) 2 Knowledge Skills- Literature 3 (Specialty: Romance), Architecture 4, UCAS Politics 3 (Specialty: Metahuman Politics) 3, Seattle Sprawl 3 Edit: And he's got a grenade launcher anyway, so anyone who takes issue with him quickly becomes a non-issue 
Cabbit fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 06:41
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Agreed that yours is definitely better there. As I play with the system and with chargen I get a bit better at it but I'm still working at it. It's one of the reasons I'd actually like to really try a Mr Lucky - with Adepts and Sammies (sorry, I have no interest in mages or really technomancers) I always feel pushed to put Resources or Magic at B. A Mr Lucky can go Human C to his max Edge and really flex out the skills to pour his Edge into.
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Aug 24, 2013 06:45
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I've come up with a technomancer build that does 12 guaranteed matrix damage (10[Attack] + 2DV[Hammer]) plus 1 DV for every net hit on my Cybercombat test of 16(6+6+2[Hotsim] + 2[Codeslinger]). Aside from bricking an opposing decker's hardware and dumpshocking him, what else can I do with that much guaranteed damage and an [Attack] stat of 10? Bricking an enemy team's guns? I could also get biofeedback damage for this build. Would doing 10 guaranteed damage + net hits on an 18 dice Codespike be enough to toast a security spider before he could put up a fight? I should note that this build is stupidly optimized and has only 3 Resonance while I wait to buy some Bioware.
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Aug 24, 2013 10:06
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The whole point of this dumpstat conversation is that an attribute of 1 does not make you a blitering retard - that is what an attribute of 0 does. The only way I am aware of earning a zero in a stat is by having it reduced by a Decrease Attribute spell, and in that case your character will either stand there blankly or fall into a heap. You can also burn Edge to get a zero score but that's not related exactly. If the developers intended to have a stat of 1 make your character socially toxic, unable to read, can't tie their own shoes, then they would have spelled it out in the rules. As it stands, a 1 just means you are untrained in that area. At least in SR4, the human average was straight 2s - not exactly Einstein compared to the guy with 1s and still as likely to fail die rolls since each die only has a 1/3 chance of hitting. The solution would have been to have all stats start at 2 and raise from there, but that's not how Shadowrun works. ProfessorCirno, I'm addressing you directly - please stop with the personal attacks and when someone gives you an answer accept it. I woke up to 100 new posts in this thread overnight and many of them were of you willingly ignoring what everyone else is saying until you got the answer you wanted. Maybe you should take a break. By the way, I do have one character - check Martello's Rotten Apple thread. I don't play in any SR5 games at the moment, but will be sure to avoid joining any groups you are a part of because I really don't need to get an instruction on The Right Way to play the game from someone who can't seem to figure out what point they're trying to make. It's just a fantasy game on the internet, man.
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Aug 24, 2013 12:47
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Okay, so I'm back and working on my character sheet again. How good are the 'elemental protection'-style armor mods? (Fire Resistance, Insulation, Nonconductivity, and Chemical Protection) Edit: Also, quick question, dirtycajun, what are the fake licenses for, exactly? You've got 6 there, but if the GM asks me what they're for... I have no idea other than a restricted weapon, augmentation, or drone permit. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 15:22
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BenRGamer posted:Okay, so I'm back and working on my character sheet again. I got to the point where I was throwing them on because you have a bunch of restricted gear. I recommend you go through each piece of gear and see what you can free up, your drone is flat out going to be forbidden from the dual ares alphas strapped to it, so I recommend getting a rigged white van or access to one as soon as possible to keep the bastard in.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:41
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Bigass Moth posted:The whole point of this dumpstat conversation is that an attribute of 1 does not make you a blitering retard - that is what an attribute of 0 does. The only way I am aware of earning a zero in a stat is by having it reduced by a Decrease Attribute spell, and in that case your character will either stand there blankly or fall into a heap. You can also burn Edge to get a zero score but that's not related exactly. Ignoring your random insults at me (though it's funny you say I've been ignoring everything), hasn't half of this been answered or commented on already? I already pasted directly from SR4A what each stat line means (hint: 3 is "typical," not 2), we already covered that literally not one NPC had a 1 in any of their stats, we already pointed out that Logic 1 is the D&D equivalent of Intelligence 3, etc, etc. Like, I'm pretty sure I could respond to this using only quotes from this very thread. Who's ignoring what, again? Incidentally if you want to lower the number of attribute points you start off with but start every stat at 2, that's fine! D&D 4e did similar - it removed the grossly negative attributes from it's typical point buy chargen (though there were alternative chargens that had them) and made it so you could only start with a low score of 8 - which would match up more or less to a low score of 2 in SR5.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:57
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BenRGamer posted:Okay, so I'm back and working on my character sheet again. I tend to roll with chemical and nonconductivity. Nonconductivity helps against electric damage which can mess you up rather hard, and chemical protection...is, to be honest, a habit from older editions, where the fluff was that rain was so acidic that NOT having chemical protection would make your clothing slowly dye, smell, and rot from it.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:58
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Dunno, the only ones that seem important is fire since if you catch fire you can end up burning for a few turns and electricity. Even though the latter has been heavily nerfed so its not as critical but it's probably the most common elemental damage you'll take. I found the solution for my suicide problem, Cortex Bombs doesn't cost any essence so I can put one in an adept with no issue (apart from the 25k pricetag and 16F availability, drat). Kind of a let down that they don't have a wireless bonus like everything else though. 
Poil fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 16:12
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Poil posted:Dunno, the only ones that seem important is fire since if you catch fire you can end up burning for a few turns and electricity. Even though the latter has been heavily nerfed so its not as critical but it's probably the most common elemental damage you'll take. Yes, because you want the bomb in your head to be available online  In any case, I think I finished a rough draft of all the gear I'm gonna be taking on this guy. Now I just have to work out how to make cyberware and lifestyle work on a 270,000 budget. I may have to take out the extra drones I got, but look at all the savings on free weapon mounts! code:
DMW45 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 16:25
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BenRGamer posted:Yes, because you want the bomb in your head to be available online How else are you going to keep the software up to date? You don't want the bomb to malfunction because of a bug, do you? Not to mention the whole thing where you need to connect to the manufacturer's server on a daily basis or it'll stop working. Or possibly start working. Purely as an anti piracy feature of course. Also it allows deckers to have more fun. I already have the bonus part worked out, you get to detonate it as a free action instead of a simple action. Kinda like smuggling compartments (which you also want to have broadcasting wi-fi signals). Does the smuggling ware come with an eject function or something? Poil fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 16:33
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Oh hey, I think I found the chestnut that probably kicked off that whole malarkey some pages back. Page 3 of the Quick Start Rules:pre:The standard range of natural human attributes is on a scale of 1 to 6, with 3 being average. Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers—some metatypes can have ratings higher than 6 in some attributes. Augmented ratings (cyberware and magic) are listed in parentheses after the natural rating, such as: 4 (6). They probably should have put that literally anywhere in the core book.
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Aug 24, 2013 17:00
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Poil posted:How else are you going to keep the software up to date? You don't want the bomb to malfunction because of a bug, do you? Not to mention the whole thing where you need to connect to the manufacturer's server on a daily basis or it'll stop working. Or possibly start working. Purely as an anti piracy feature of course. The entire reason you PUT a bomb in someone's head is so you can kill them wirelessly.
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Aug 24, 2013 17:01
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If I want to fight non-lethally would this be a good selection of weapons? -Defiance EX Shocker: main weapon -Ares Predator V w Stick-n-shock: when I need the range -Stun Baton: melee, probably not used very often. Mystic Mongol posted:The entire reason you PUT a bomb in someone's head is so you can kill them wirelessly. I want to put a bomb in my own head as a last resort to avoid capture. Rp reasons.
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Aug 24, 2013 17:05
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Alright, but don't you want that bomb to have web 2.0 functionality? User generated content, plus a buy it now option where people can shorten the timer by a minute for fifty nuyen?
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Aug 24, 2013 17:11
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Poil posted:If I want to fight non-lethally would this be a good selection of weapons? Personally, I like the Shock Hand/Glove. It'll give you a shocking right hook. Edit: Good lord, balancing a fake checkbook is insane. It's really, really hard to make it work with the concept that I wanted. Wired Reflexes and Control Rigs and RCCs are all so ridiculously expensive. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 17:12
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Yeah, but it's 1 less damage and reach. Gotta at least attempt some competence.Mystic Mongol posted:Alright, but don't you want that bomb to have web 2.0 functionality? User generated content, plus a buy it now option where people can shorten the timer by a minute for fifty nuyen? I also want them to release splatbooks so I can create my homo sapiens nobilis vrykolakas character. 
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Aug 24, 2013 17:51
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Poil posted:Yeah, but it's 1 less damage and reach. Gotta at least attempt some competence. Pfft. Who needs reach when you can knock someone out with a handshake? What's a better way to subdue a target than with a souped up joy buzzer? Edit: Okay, I give up. I had to completely and utterly gut the character concept I had in mind for the backstory behind the guy for more resources--and I still cannot afford the character because of the cost of Wired Reflexes/Reaction Enhancer and the Control Rig/RCC. So, I give up. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 18:01
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I think the real stupidity with the "logic 1 character" is that the character generation system encourages such a character by making it optimal. Points-wise, the best thing to do is min-max stats and skills at character generation, eat whatever poo poo the GM (that bastard) throws at you for having low stats, "realise the error of your ways" after the first run and reduce your weaknesses with any karma you get given. Hate the game, not the player. Perhaps the best thing to do is to re-release the karma character creation system (BeCKS, I think it was called) they had for 4e. Anyone done that yet? It actually encouraged people to make broad characters. My personal feelings are that life is too short to poo poo on your players for min-maxing. The thought of actually scanning my players characters for weaknesses to exploit in the next run really wearies me. However, the system is at fault for encouraging it.
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Aug 24, 2013 19:13
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Gort posted:I think the real stupidity with the "logic 1 character" is that the character generation system encourages such a character by making it optimal. Points-wise, the best thing to do is min-max stats and skills at character generation, eat whatever poo poo the GM (that bastard) throws at you for having low stats, "realise the error of your ways" after the first run and reduce your weaknesses with any karma you get given. There are a couple karma-gen systems that are fan made and seem fine, but I'll wait for the Companion for the official version.
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Aug 24, 2013 19:20
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Poil, when the new splatbooks come out, hopefully K10 will still be around. Or even K11. A couple fake teeth and you won't just be killing yourself, but everyone else in the general vicinity, too.SR4 Arsenal 75 posted:K-10 (Blood of Kali) Basically you go from 'decker' to 'troll'. 18S damage unresisted probably wouldn't kill you, which is why you eat another when you start to come down.
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Aug 24, 2013 19:35
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Fun, especially on a melee based troll. But slightly too murderous for the idea I have.
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Aug 24, 2013 19:41
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It's really silly to compare a 1 in Shadowrun to a 3 in D&D because both are made up abstractions to serve game purposes and on top of that, the games describe them differently. Int 3 in D&D is just above animal intelligence- difficulty speaking and guaranteed illiteracy. Int 1 in Shadowrun is explicitly not stupid, just poor critical thinking skills. Int 1 can use the internet just fine, but will probably find itself frequenting Freep and the Blaze.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:31
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It's a bit like how a character with zero Perception skill isn't blind, and doesn't deserve to have invisible ninjas shooting them all the time just because the GM hates the fact that the character has "such a huge weakness".
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Aug 24, 2013 21:18
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So after reading through the book and making a few characters, I had a question I wanted to toss out here. Is there a decent amount to reduce costs of the Cyberdecks by to make the more available? Even with giving yourself Resources A you've got a crap deck and it's easier to buy it and a RCC and just slave it to the RCC to get wonderful Firewall and Data for 144k and then leave the cyberdeck running the best you've got on Offense and Sleaze. It's just that looking at the top line deck I'd rather wait another run or two and just pay for a permanent High Lifestyle and retire from running. I know you need to make your own reason to run, but both the payout system being rather shoestring and massive increase in a many of the item costs, I'm curious how/if other people are looking to address any of that. I know I could just arbitrarily start slashing prices, but I was wondering if someone else had given more thought to a better cost structure for them or if it's better to boost starting cash and money from finishing runs. As for the stat discussion, I think if you're going to play with a 1 in a stat you should expect certain RP restrictions to come down on you. Not even bringing in the mean Ol'DM seeing a consistent weak link in the party and maybe exploiting it because, ya know, that thing happens when you get more known and people start to become aware of you in the business. I'm not necessarily saying you flat out cannot do things, but you're not going to be spouting off ideas for flanking around or doing anything particularly tactical if you're not having any mental stats because of a die pool argument, nor are you going to care much for or be aware of basic social norms when you've gotta deal with a Johnson or even just a regular shake down. The numbers still mean something outside of the dice pool and if you and your DM wants to ignore that fact then kudos on getting the free points, but I know all my gaming over the years and systems says if you wanna have a big obvious dump stat like that then be prepared to RP it.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:34
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Gort posted:It's a bit like how a character with zero Perception skill isn't blind, and doesn't deserve to have invisible ninjas shooting them all the time just because the GM hates the fact that the character has "such a huge weakness". Like I said, just because somebody had the gall to take a shellfish allergy doesn't mean you should forcibly cram shrimp down their throat every mission. Explorator_Vimes posted:So after reading through the book and making a few characters, I had a question I wanted to toss out here. Is there a decent amount to reduce costs of the Cyberdecks by to make the more available? Even with giving yourself Resources A you've got a crap deck and it's easier to buy it and a RCC and just slave it to the RCC to get wonderful Firewall and Data for 144k and then leave the cyberdeck running the best you've got on Offense and Sleaze. It's just that looking at the top line deck I'd rather wait another run or two and just pay for a permanent High Lifestyle and retire from running. I know you need to make your own reason to run, but both the payout system being rather shoestring and massive increase in a many of the item costs, I'm curious how/if other people are looking to address any of that. I know I could just arbitrarily start slashing prices, but I was wondering if someone else had given more thought to a better cost structure for them or if it's better to boost starting cash and money from finishing runs. Or you could buy a Hermes Ikon and slave it to that; commlinks have a firewall and data processing rating equal to their device rating. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 21:35
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Cabbit posted:Like I said, just because somebody had the gall to take a shellfish allergy doesn't mean you should forcibly cram shrimp down their throat every mission. I'm not really a big fan of strengths and weaknesses like this, on the other hand. They just seem like a quest to find the least damaging weaknesses possible that people are forced into because otherwise they're giving up the free points. The solution certainly isn't for the GM to stomp on the weakness all the time, though. Just give a few extra karma to everyone instead.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:44
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Have weaknesses give karma whenever they come up in play, like NWoD merits
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Aug 25, 2013 00:39
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homerlaw posted:Have weaknesses give karma whenever they come up in play, like NWoD merits I think that could be fun for negative qualities, but not for low stats.
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Aug 25, 2013 00:47
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Okay, after taking a couple of hours off, I went to work back on it--and I managed to make the resources fit. But I can't even afford a car. That's... kind of incredibly annoying. But I dunno what to drop, all the big stuff is stuff that's important to my characters statistics or background (The Control Rig, the RCC, the Wired Reflex/Reaction Enhancers, and the Cyberlimbs) Can someone help me figure out what I should drop to get a van? Here's the whole sheet so far. code:I also feel kinda hesitant to go with 1 in Strength and Agility, as dirtycajun suggested. I can't even try a Running check without spending edge with just one strength. And how does the physical limit work with cyberlimbs, too? Would I be stuck with the natural limit or would the physical limit readjust for the cyberlimb when I use it? Edit: Whoops. Didn't realize no one posted after me earlier, sorry for the double post.
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Aug 25, 2013 03:23
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Cabbit posted:Like I said, just because somebody had the gall to take a shellfish allergy doesn't mean you should forcibly cram shrimp down their throat every mission. The whole argument started with the contention that such disadvantages should never show up as an obstacle in the game because that's somehow mean to the players.
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Aug 25, 2013 06:35
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Benr Gamer I am going to take a long look at your build some time tomorrow and make some meaningful suggestions, but I am a little burned out on math and thinking after what can only be termed as playing a missions game with perhaps the two loudest whiners I have ever played a game with. Laphroaig was a great GM but goddamn two people were loving awful. For my next trick I am going to make a really cool illusionist mage who actually does things!
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Aug 25, 2013 06:39
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Tippis posted:The whole argument started with the contention that such disadvantages should never show up as an obstacle in the game because that's somehow mean to the players. The argument came up because Cirno started asserting that having a Charisma of 1 meant someone was "incapable of having a conversation." Having weaknesses come up in play is fine, "you fail to have a conversation" is bullshit on par with "your Agility is 1 so roll to see if you trip and die while walking across the floor."
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Aug 25, 2013 06:41
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Kai Tave posted:The argument came up because Cirno started asserting that having a Charisma of 1 meant someone was "incapable of having a conversation." Having weaknesses come up in play is fine, "you fail to have a conversation" is bullshit on par with "your Agility is 1 so roll to see if you trip and die while walking across the floor." He was exaggerating to make the point that, no, having minimum attribute scores are not something that should never come up, or even only rarely, but rather is something that is a daily problem to the character and which should define their lives in general. This as a counter argument to the implication that you could min-max without actually suffering on (or from) the min end of the equation. And yes, rules-wise, charisma 1 (and no skills) means you can never succeed at any kind of charisma-based challenge. You can still have a conversation, but unless it's under the right circumstances (time, preparation, guidance) any part of that conversation that entails convincing people, lying, fitting in with the crowd, or any similar non-trivial task will automatically fail. To what extent you consider that “incapable of conversing” is just a matter of how you define conversation.
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Aug 25, 2013 08:55
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Tippis posted:He was exaggerating to make the point that, no, having minimum attribute scores are not something that should never come up, or even only rarely, but rather is something that is a daily problem to the character and which should define their lives in general. This as a counter argument to the implication that you could min-max without actually suffering on (or from) the min end of the equation. ProfessorCirno posted:Logic 1 means you are incapable of using any electronics - posting pictures of cats on the internet is beyond you, you fail at any and all academic knowledge checks, and you may as well be unable to read. So when he said "at Logic 1 you can't look up YouTube videos and might as well be functionally illiterate," neither of which are actually supported by any text I've been able to find anywhere in either the 4E or 5E books on the subject, I should have realized he was actually just being hyperbolic and not trying to make an actual point, okay. quote:And yes, rules-wise, charisma 1 (and no skills) means you can never succeed at any kind of charisma-based challenge. You can still have a conversation, but unless it's under the right circumstances (time, preparation, guidance) any part of that conversation that entails convincing people, lying, fitting in with the crowd, or any similar non-trivial task will automatically fail. To what extent you consider that “incapable of conversing” is just a matter of how you define conversation. So literally any time anybody in a game you run has a conversation you make them roll skill checks to see if they manage to successfully converse? Seriously, the argument that Cirno has been making here, as far as I can tell, is 1). Taking a 1 in a stat means you auto-fail associated skills (okay fine, that's not really in dispute) 2). Therefore if someone takes a 1 in a stat it means that they are functionally incapable of even basic life tasks because of point the first. So either the GM is making his players roll to chat with the 7-11 clerk and order things off of Amazon.matrix or he isn't. If he is then frankly he's an rear end in a top hat. If he isn't then Cirno's insistence that someone with a 1 in a stat is fundamentally crippled is off-base. My point, which nobody has really addressed so far, is why the guy with a 1 Charisma deserves the GM stinkeye while the guy with 2 Charisma is A-OK even if the actual capabilities of Mr. 2 Charisma are, for all practical purposes, not that much better than the guy with 1. But put a 2 in a stat you plan on never using and nobody starts making bullshit hyperbolic arguments about how that guy's ready to fail at basic life skills even though his lovely 1-in-3 chance of a single hit (barring spending edge or whatever) means that he's probably not going to be accomplishing anything that really requires checks either, and therefore will probably be avoiding circumstances where he has to make those checks whenever possible. Which is, y'know, what Shadowrun characters do all the time. If your party Street Sam has a Charisma of 2 and no social skills then he (probably) doesn't make social checks whenever possible. If there's a 'run that involves a fancy party then he works around that rather than blundering in and loving things up for everybody, he lets the Face handle negotiating the payment with Mr. Johnson, sort of like how you don't let the guy with lovely Demolitions skill defuse the time bomb. Sure, if he says "hey, I want to do [THING] that requires [SOCIAL SKILL]" then the GM is entirely within their rights to go "okay man, then roll your lovely 1 die and see if you probably gently caress it up, and you will probably gently caress it up"...but most of the time a guy with a low attribute and no skills is going to not be doing that poo poo in the first place. And sure, the GM can force him to make social checks whenever he wants but the conclusion is fairly forgone at that point so I'm not really sure what's gained by that beyond "here, let me remind you that you suck at this, okay moving on." Someone with a 2 in a stat and no associated skills is essentially saying "I probably don't give a poo poo about skill checks here, whatever" just as much as the guy with a 1. So beyond the marginal chance of paper-thin success, what did the 2 Charisma street sam really get for spending those BP/attribute points beyond the Professor Cirno Seal of Approval? Because it seems kind of weird to me that people are treating the dude with a 1 as though that needs to be an active drawback, one that someone's entire character centers around, while the guy with 2 gets a shoulder shrug even though the level at which he's "more functional" is marginal.
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Aug 25, 2013 09:45
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Kai Tave posted:My point, which nobody has really addressed so far, is why the guy with a 1 Charisma deserves the GM stinkeye while the guy with 2 Charisma is A-OK even if the actual capabilities of Mr. 2 Charisma are, for all practical purposes, not that much better than the guy with 1. This has been addressed multiple times for gently caress's sake. It's because NUMBERS MEAN SOMETHING. Logic 1 means something about your character. Logic 2 means something else. It means you are objectively smarter. The average is 3. Logic 2? That means you are dumber then the average person. Logic 1? You are significantly dumber then the average person. And there is a difference between attributes and skills. If you have 0 in a skill you are untrained in that skill. Cool, easy, I get that. I cannot use demolitions. My character is untrained in demolitions. The average skill in demolitions is untrained. It's 0. The average person's ability in a skill they never use is "uh, I've never used that, I'm not trained." 0. But attributes are not skills. They are your core stats of your character. Logic is not "the modifier I attach to these explicit skills." Logic is "how smart is my character?" The average Logic is not zero. The average Logic is 3. It will never stop amazing me that people are throwing a hissy fit at being expected to actually play out their dump stats.
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Aug 25, 2013 09:49
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ProfessorCirno posted:It will never stop amazing me that people are throwing a hissy fit at being expected to actually play out their dump stats. A.) Your fit is by far the hissiest of anyone in this thread. B.) Nobody is expecting to not play out their dump stats-- the problem is while some people think Int 1 is "slow", you seem to be convinced that it's "literally a loving rock". The difference here, and something you never addressed, is you seem to have a much lower standard as to what prompts a check and what doesn't. Somebody with Logic 1 should not be forced to make Logic checks any more than a person with Logic 9 as a matter of course in their everyday life. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Aug 25, 2013 |
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Aug 25, 2013 09:52
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Cabbit posted:A.) Your fit is by far the hissiest of anyone in this thread. This whole dumb arguement happened because people took personal offense at being told dump stats were a thing you'd have to actually deal with and not just free points. I've already stated that Logic 2 is "slow." I've shown HOW Logic 2 is "slow." I question: if Logic 2 is not "slow" then what is Logic 2? Logic 1 is the lowest possible stat you can have while still being conscious. It is lower the any given NPC in the game. It is lower then uneducated street trash. So Logic 1 is the dumbest character possible and Logic 2 is "between that and the human average." I would hope that speaks for itself.
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Aug 25, 2013 09:55
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People took offense at your frankly loving ridiculous, argumentative hyperbole. It is a massive disservice to any argument you attempt to make, and makes it incredibly difficult to take you seriously, let alone pay attention to you. Logic 2 is 'below average'. It is literally one notch below average.
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Aug 25, 2013 09:57
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