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If Logan Grimnar is anything to go by, and the wolves are the one chapter that most resembles the pre-heresy legions, then Russ would probably destroy the inquisition if he ever came back.
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Aug 24, 2013 12:22
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Nephilm posted:Some are destroyed, some stick around. Terminus Est is still around Fidelius Lex gets blown up in Betrayer. Demiurge4 posted:If Logan Grimnar is anything to go by, and the wolves are the one chapter that most resembles the pre-heresy legions, then Russ would probably destroy the inquisition if he ever came back. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 13:39
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Fried Chicken posted:One of the things I really liked about Prosperto Burns is how it gives context to everything else. The Wolves were regarded as one of the most ruthless and bloodthirsty legions during the Great Crusade. But 10,000 years later they stand out for their compassion for humanity. The Wolves didn't change, it's just that the rest of the Imperium went so batshit they look reasonable for their whole "Hey, we kept them from seeing demons, so maybe don't kill everyone on Armageddon" bit. I mostly agree. The wolves were always ruthless and bloodthirsty towards the Imperium's enemies, it's just that post-Heresy Imperium turns its ruthlessness increasingly inwards towards its own citizens, and the Wolves still have enough capacity for independent thought that they can react to the sort of cognitive dissonance thus produced. If nothing else it shows that there are shades of severity in any society or belief system. The Imperium of the Great Crusade were authoritarian, expansionistic assholes by any objective metric, but there's fascism and then there's fascism.
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Aug 24, 2013 17:49
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What I don't get is why everyone ignores the Salamanders. Always have been about the citizens since the great crusade, and still are for the most part. EDIT: Wait, forgot about Nick Kyme. bunnyofdoom fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 17:51
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bunnyofdoom posted:What I don't get is why everyone ignores the Salamanders. Always have been about the citizens since the great crusade, and still are for the most part. Because the only time they show up and aren't written like poo poo is a brief appearance in part 2 of Helsreach. Which owned for showing the difference between them and the Templar and served as a nice role in Grimaldus' development, but was still tiny.
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Aug 24, 2013 17:55
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Fried Chicken posted:Terminus Est is still around Terminus Est was never a flagship IIRC, and Lorgar had already switched to something bigger when the Fidelitas Lex got Ultramarine'd.
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Aug 24, 2013 18:22
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Well, Terminus Est was broken by Baldanders. Duh.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:56
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Neurosis posted:Well, Terminus Est was broken by Baldanders. Duh. I keep meaning to re-read that because I'm not sure how much I understood the first time through.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:03
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A little more will make sense the second time through. Then on the third read you'll realise you don't know anything. And on the fourth... THERE ARE TWO SEVERIANS HOLY FUCKKKKKKK
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Aug 24, 2013 21:11
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Neurosis posted:A little more will make sense the second time through. Then on the third read you'll realise you don't know anything. And on the fourth... THERE ARE TWO SEVERIANS HOLY FUCKKKKKKK The gently caress you talking about?
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Aug 24, 2013 22:27
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Neurosis posted:A little more will make sense the second time through. Then on the third read you'll realise you don't know anything. And on the fourth... THERE ARE TWO SEVERIANS HOLY FUCKKKKKKK  VanSandman posted:The gently caress you talking about? It's their fault, they mentioned Terminus Est.
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Aug 24, 2013 22:29
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Someone invoked Gene Wolfe. The Chaos God of Obtuseness.
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Aug 24, 2013 22:58
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Anyone else have no idea what the last few posts have been about?
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Aug 24, 2013 23:30
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VanSandman posted:Anyone else have no idea what the last few posts have been about? The Book of the New Sun series by Gene Wolfe, which features the sword Teminus Est.
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Aug 24, 2013 23:33
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Nephilm posted:- Abbadon made for the Eye with the Vengeful Spirit and I believe its still in his possession. In the short Extinction by ADB. The Vengeful Spirit is destroyed, and its remains seem to be floating above some daemon world. (i think its prospero).
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Aug 25, 2013 06:04
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How does the fluff explain why only the Eldar can use the Webway? Are the doors keyed to Eldar genes or something?
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Aug 25, 2013 08:24
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Aside from whatever security measures may be at the entrances, be it active defenses or just being hidden, it's the Eldar who made it and (both varieties) are highly protective of it - they'll hunt down and kill anyone who tries to make use of it, and fighting inside the webway against Eldar is a losing proposition since it's a labyrinth whose layout only they are privy to.
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Aug 25, 2013 08:28
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Baron Bifford posted:How does the fluff explain why only the Eldar can use the Webway? Are the doors keyed to Eldar genes or something? I think the gates are made from Wraithbone so most other races would be unable to use the Eldar gateways and there are natural defences in the webway that locate and destroy intruders. In some of the newer fluff, I think races like the Necrons can force their way into the webway but need to leave after a certain time before they get stuck.
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Aug 25, 2013 09:45
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Baron Bifford posted:How does the fluff explain why only the Eldar can use the Webway? Are the doors keyed to Eldar genes or something? I'm pretty sure the Old Ones built it and gave the keys to the Eldar, who turned around and hosed it all up and forgot most of the webway routes. Also, some Chaos Sorcerers and human Inquisitors can traverse the Webway, but it's only ever for trying to find the Black Library. It's one of those things never properly explained because how can Eldar fleets of ships travel the webway and pop out in the area of the Galaxy they need to be if most of the webway is in disuse?
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Aug 25, 2013 10:34
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Kegslayer posted:In some of the newer fluff, I think races like the Necrons can force their way into the webway but need to leave after a certain time before they get stuck. Nephilm posted:Aside from whatever security measures may be at the entrances, be it active defenses or just being hidden, it's the Eldar who made it and (both varieties) are highly protective of it - they'll hunt down and kill anyone who tries to make use of it, and fighting inside the webway against Eldar is a losing proposition since it's a labyrinth whose layout only they are privy to. Hot Dog Day #82 posted:So this may be a bit of a silly question but... Are there civilians living in the Eye of Terror? In the fluff it talks about these vast armies and fleets that leave it and go on campaigns, but where do the fresh recruits come from to fill those trivial rolls? I always assumed everyone "living" in the Eye of Terror must be pants-on-head crazy, but it would be interesting if there were semi-normal people there who are try to live a good life/avoid predation Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Aug 25, 2013 |
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Aug 25, 2013 17:24
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Nephilm posted:I think it's a fair assessment to not enjoy ADB's Night Lord books because the protagonists being evil, but yeah, "motivated by something more than simple desire to torture" is the opposite of what the book aims (and succeeds) to portray - they're complex individuals with diverse personalities and motivations, for the most part clinging to what gives them a sense of identity. What you're saying mirrors the position Talos holds, but every other Night Lords character in the books is quite emphatic about him being wrong. Talos may think there's some greater goal to his deeds, while the rest don't try to disguise that they do it for pure enjoyment. And I never accused them of being one-dimensional torture machines, they're clearly three-dimensional torture machines.
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Aug 25, 2013 19:11
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Kylaer posted:What you're saying mirrors the position Talos holds, but every other Night Lords character in the books is quite emphatic about him being wrong. Talos may think there's some greater goal to his deeds, while the rest don't try to disguise that they do it for pure enjoyment. And I never accused them of being one-dimensional torture machines, they're clearly three-dimensional torture machines. No, you implied that torture was their simple motivation. As for the rest: while they say that, and it's undeniable that they enjoy causing pain and suffering, the fact that Talos is partly right is the clutch of the conclusion of the trilogy. Xarl tells him he wasn't wrong to find a purpose for the Legion in his dying moments, Uzas shows the value he places upon the bonds of brotherhood in lucidity, and the Night Lords who had been living off cowardly raids present a general feeling of exaltation as they finally strike with purpose, which is maintained even as they're cut to the last while making their stand.
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Aug 25, 2013 19:55
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There's a good short story - maybe an audio drama? - by ADB featuring Talos and company looking for an audio recording of Kurze's final moments. It sums up the overarching themes of the Night Lord Trilogy well. The thing to remember about the Night Lords is that while they are very much monsters, it is because for the most part they grew up in the most monstrous place imaginable. They are, in their own way, deeply traumatized children, albeit children that can rip a normal man apart. Psychopathy isn't so much a mental illness with them as it is a coping mechanism for the sheer horror they faced on a daily basis. Their primarch, their father, hated them because he saw in them his own failures and monstrosities. Kurze was likewise broken by his childhood, but he had the power to enforce his will on others. I suspect he never truly gave a drat, once the heresy started, if he or his legion lived or died.
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Aug 25, 2013 20:05
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I kinda want a story written by Dan Abbot or ADB about Kaldor Draigo. Just a Grey Knight grandmaster hopelessly trapped in the warp with a boot firmly planted up the nearest Daemon rear end. Could even drop subtle hints that he might have crossed paths or heard through the warp possible actions or sightings of Corax and Russ, but since he is trapped forever in the warp no one will never know they still walk the galaxy. But mostly just a single knight murdering his way through the warp and trying to stay sane.
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Aug 26, 2013 05:28
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EyeRChris posted:I kinda want a story written by Dan Abbot or ADB about Kaldor Draigo. Just a Grey Knight grandmaster hopelessly trapped in the warp with a boot firmly planted up the nearest Daemon rear end. Could even drop subtle hints that he might have crossed paths or heard through the warp possible actions or sightings of Corax and Russ, but since he is trapped forever in the warp no one will never know they still walk the galaxy. But mostly just a single knight murdering his way through the warp and trying to stay sane. Who's Dan Abbot?
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Aug 26, 2013 05:35
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Who's Dan Abbot? Nice guy, friend of mine. Doesn't read or write though.
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Aug 26, 2013 06:28
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EyeRChris posted:I kinda want a story written by Dan Abbot or ADB about Kaldor Draigo. Just a Grey Knight grandmaster hopelessly trapped in the warp with a boot firmly planted up the nearest Daemon rear end. Could even drop subtle hints that he might have crossed paths or heard through the warp possible actions or sightings of Corax and Russ, but since he is trapped forever in the warp no one will never know they still walk the galaxy. But mostly just a single knight murdering his way through the warp and trying to stay sane. This should tide you over for a good long while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc
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Aug 26, 2013 13:36
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Been reading Ravenor. Are untouchables immune to the corrupting effects of Chaos (madness and mutation), given that they blot out everything that is of the Warp?
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Aug 26, 2013 21:09
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They kinda are, yes.
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Aug 26, 2013 21:18
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Baron Bifford posted:Been reading Ravenor. Are untouchables immune to the corrupting effects of Chaos (madness and mutation), given that they blot out everything that is of the Warp? Yes and no. They can stand up to a Demon because they're immune to warp magic. But it's a Demon, so just looking at it's hosed up physiology will still shred their minds.
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Aug 26, 2013 22:13
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Baron Bifford posted:Been reading Ravenor. Are untouchables immune to the corrupting effects of Chaos (madness and mutation), given that they blot out everything that is of the Warp? They're immune to warp-induced mutation, yes. They're also immune to madness that's directly caused by the warp(e.g. a psyker cannot use their powers to drive them mad, they won't feel psychically induced fear/madness from a demon's presence, etc). Whether or not they can go 'regular' mad from it, though? Not sure, but I would assume that the answer is "yes". I know there's one part in Eisenhorn where a blank sees a Chaos Marine and pretty much loses her poo poo because being immune to the warp doesn't make you immune to regular old non-psychic pants-making GBS threads terror.
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Aug 27, 2013 04:39
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Khizan posted:They're immune to warp-induced mutation, yes. They're also immune to madness that's directly caused by the warp(e.g. a psyker cannot use their powers to drive them mad, they won't feel psychically induced fear/madness from a demon's presence, etc). Jurgen has assisted Cain in dealing with many a chaos entity by getting close enough to it so power swords or guns can kill it. I'm pretty sure the first major Chaos demon Cain fights is stomping them until the second Jurgen gets it in range and then it goes down really quickly.
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Aug 27, 2013 06:46
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Was Jurgen's untouchability planned from the start by the author or is it just a thing he retconned in later in the series? Also, Ravenor's untouchables have these "limiters" that shut off their powers. Do they become vulnerable to corruption then? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 09:08
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Baron Bifford posted:Was Jurgen's untouchability planned from the start by the author or is it just a thing he retconned in later in the series? 1. It became first evident in the first novel, where Jurgen's presence injured the Genestealer Patriarch they were fighting. 2. As far as I know, the limiter only restricts the blank's power to himself. Frauka will still remain impervious to psyker stuff, but he won't affect a field around him.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:53
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Khizan posted:They're immune to warp-induced mutation, yes. They're also immune to madness that's directly caused by the warp(e.g. a psyker cannot use their powers to drive them mad, they won't feel psychically induced fear/madness from a demon's presence, etc).
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Aug 27, 2013 13:46
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If a primarch came back, I think his biggest issue with the Imperium would be the whole cult of the God-Emperor thing. He was more than human, but never divine.
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Aug 27, 2013 14:00
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It seems the only loyal Primarch who is still alive is Lion'El, of the Dark Angels. He's sleeping in a secret chamber beneath their fortress monastery, and only the Watchers in the Dark know about it. Why they are not reviving him is anyone's guess. The return of a Primarch would shake the Imperium to its core, reverse a lot of stupidity and injustice.Waroduce posted:If a primarch came back, I think his biggest issue with the Imperium would be the whole cult of the God-Emperor thing. He was more than human, but never divine. Oh, and the divinity of the Emperor is doubtful. He is on a completely different level than even the second most powerful human psyker. You have people like the Grey Knights and the Sisters of Battle who draw real, tangible power from their faith in him. The Emperor can protect your soul if not your flesh.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:15
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Waroduce posted:If a primarch came back, I think his biggest issue with the Imperium would be the whole cult of the God-Emperor thing. He was more than human, but never divine. Nah, I think it would be more like 'What the gently caress happened to you guys?!'
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Aug 27, 2013 16:20
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Baron Bifford posted:It seems the only loyal Primarch who is still alive is Lion'El, of the Dark Angels. He's sleeping in a secret chamber beneath their fortress monastery, and only the Watchers in the Dark know about it. Why they are not reviving him is anyone's guess. The return of a Primarch would shake the Imperium to its core, reverse a lot of stupidity and injustice. Guilliman <might> be healing, too. Much as people poo poo on him he's the Primarch most likely to actually get poo poo done.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:30
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It's an interesting position to speculate on what the Emperor and the Primarchs intended. In the oldest fluff, it reads like the Emperor approves of every nasty thing the Imperium does as a necessary evil to defend humanity. In later fluff, the Emperor seems to be appalled at what his Imperium has turned into. I still get mixed messages occasionally.Neurosis posted:Guilliman <might> be healing, too. Much as people poo poo on him he's the Primarch most likely to actually get poo poo done.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:32
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