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Bundt Cake posted:You're doing a great job of refuting the stereotypes about people who smoke weed being friendly, calm and creative. You're doing a great job of assuming anyone who defends something necessarily partakes in it. I don't smoke fifteen joints a day but I know plenty of people who do that are able to put together much more coherent thoughts and ideas than the ones I'm seeing bandied about in this thread.
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Aug 23, 2013 22:48
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EBT posted:Until you learn to not be sanctimonious about it, not a single drat thing. Who is being sanctimonious? Being concerned about someone's anti-social behavior isn't sanctimonious in the least. If anyone is being sanctimonious it's this guy: Warchicken posted:I'm not saying everyone should smoke like me. Some people can handle that and some can't. Weed culture did turn me off from smoking for a long time. I smoked often in 7th and 8th grade, until I met people that self identified as 'stoners', they were just losers who happened to smoke pot, but I didn't realize that until much later. Priding themselves on being ignorant and letting life pass them by, it left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time. Luckily as I got older and my peer group changed I met people that rather than defining themselves by weed, treated it responsibly as a thing you did for fun or just to relax much like drinking or playing video games, or any of the other harmless activities people do. Now that legalization is a real possibility where I live, New York City, I'm encouraged by the large cross section of society that supports it. But alas for every "reasonable" person that supports anything, there is some sinister force behind the continued criminalization and I can't help but feel people like Warchicken unwillingly bolster the arguments the powers that be rely on. Hence the reefer madness comment. I'm also pretty disappointed that in a thread about legalization, the history of the criminalization of weed and it's intersection with politics, race, and the conservative backlash from the 60's, that I have to explain a Reefer Madness reference.
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Aug 23, 2013 22:53
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I know the reference, it just doesn't apply in this situation. I'm sorry some kids who identified as stoners were mean to you in high school. It's probably time to get over it and stop pretending like people who want to be under the influence of THC on a daily basis have some kind of problem.
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Aug 23, 2013 22:56
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a lovely poster posted:I know the reference, it just doesn't apply in this situation. I'm sorry some kids who identified as stoners were mean to you in high school. It's probably time to get over it and stop pretending like people who want to be under the influence of THC on a daily basis have some kind of problem. Don't project, I was the supplier for those "meanies" and I don't hold any ill-will towards them, (why would I) just the bullshit culture that they latched onto and by extension the object of their infatuation.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:00
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a lovely poster posted:You're doing a great job of assuming anyone who defends something necessarily partakes in it. I don't smoke fifteen joints a day but I know plenty of people who do that are able to put together much more coherent thoughts and ideas than the ones I'm seeing bandied about in this thread. So on one hand you're demanding scientific data for why smoking 15 joints a day is bad, but on the other hand you're more than willing to be a total prick because no one is compelled by your evidence that a lot of guys you know smoke 15 joints a day and are fine in your expert judgment. And now you reveal that you in fact do not smoke marijuana yourself. Amazing defense, the whole pot smoking community thanks you for your selfless commitment to service.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:02
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a lovely poster posted:Why is that? They are both substances people smoke to obtain very similar effects. Relaxation, alleviation of stress or anxiety. I'm not denying that marijuana has other effects that nicotine doesn't have, significantly impaired motor function is one of them. Like I said, the science bears this out. Nicotine very much is a psychoactive drug that alters your perception. If your basis for calling THC bad is that it "alters perception", there's absolutely no reason not to question whether Nicotine would meet that criteria as well. The lesson here is that "alters perception" is a terrible metric when you're trying to objectively describe the effects of a substance. Be more specific. I can't really comment too much as I was never a heavy smoker of either (half-2/3rds a pack a day, occasional weed when I had the opportunity, never went out looking for it). I'm all for legalized weed and I'd probably smoke more if it was legal and easy to get. I'm just of the belief that nicotine and marijuana are on two different wavelengths of mind altering. I smoked both when I was stressed, but cigarettes were the equivalent of a quick fix to feel better temporarily while weed was more of a 'I want to just sit back and get my mind off things' deal. Plus cigarettes are a hell of a lot more addictive, I still get cravings for a cigarette when my car windows are down or I'm sitting outside next to smokers. I can count the amount of cigarettes I've smoked on my hand since I quit 2-3 years ago and I still get that itch once in a while when I have a lovely day. If someone's smoking weed, I'm fairly cool with just passing or not smoking. I don't get the same physical cravings. quote:Which is what? If you told me of two people, one who smoked two packs a day versus a guy who smoked for 15 hours a day, I would probably say the guy smoking weed is healthier in general. I would question both of these processes, but it is really none of my business what people do with their lives barring it affecting others or myself in a negative way. If smoking like a chimney gets you through the day, be my guest. Just try not to reek horribly like either please.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:09
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Bundt Cake posted:So on one hand you're demanding scientific data for why smoking 15 joints a day is bad, but on the other hand you're more than willing to be a total prick because no one is compelled by your evidence that a lot of guys you know smoke 15 joints a day and are fine in your expert judgment. And now you reveal that you in fact do not smoke marijuana yourself. Amazing defense, the whole pot smoking community thanks you for your selfless commitment to service. I also didn't say that I don't smoke marijuana. What I'm saying is that it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I give anecdotes because that's what I'm getting. THC does not have the long term negative health effects associated with things like Nicotine or Ethanol. It's not an opinion, it's just the reality of the situation at hand. Until there is sufficient data to suggest otherwise, we should not be trying to curb marijuana consumption.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:10
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Amused to Death posted:See, why are you trying to equate "You shouldn't really smoke weed all day long" with dictating to people what they should do. Nobody is saying we should't legalize weed because smoke people will smoke all day long(at least here anyways). But really, if you're a relatively healthy person mentally and physically who needs to be high all day long, I'm sorry, I don't care how productive you are, you need to reexamine your relationship with reality, or the status of your addiction. Addiction isn't all fiending like a madman for drugs or a cigarette. You, powercrazy and everybody else in this thread who assumes that smoking weed daily makes you BLAZED 24/7 are basically Larry King in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNK8MgVK-nY (skip to 3.07) quote:"SO YOU!" Also you're missing the point if you're trying to rank weed and cigarettes by "hardness". A person with no nicotine tolerance is going to be destroyed by a single cigarette and vice-versa.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:21
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Nope. Smoking "a" weed everyday, isn't going to make you blazed 24/7, anymore than drinking a beer is going to make you drunk all day. Smoking/Drinking 15 times a day, everyday, is a reasonable (to me and others) cause for concern however. I'm trying very hard to distance myself from the "moral outrage" folks who are the reason for the whole drug war in the first place.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:26
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a lovely poster posted:I also didn't say that I don't smoke marijuana. Yes you did. You obviously implied I made a bad assumption assuming that you smoke. The reason that people smoking a ton of weed in one day isn't a great thing isn't because of the long term health effects, its because it belies underlying mental health issues. If you can't face a day sober, there is a reason for it. Its not because being high is defacto superior to being sober, because it absolutely is not. There's a difference between wanting to stop someone from smoking as much weed as they want and recognizing that it could be indicative of problems.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:38
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Look, I still can't figure out exactly why you think it's a bad thing for me to be high all the time. I just don't understand hat you're even advocating. I should be able to put whatever the gently caress I want to into my body as long as it doesn't harm others to do so and if you don't agree with that statement then I have nothing to say. Sorry you got made fun of in middle school by some weed smokers I guess. I'm gonna keep proving you wrong on a daily basis by being high all the time and also being successful and outgoing. Sheesh.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:38
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Bundt Cake posted:Yes you did. You obviously implied I made a bad assumption assuming that you smoke. The reason that people smoking a ton of weed in one day isn't a great thing isn't because of the long term health effects, its because it belies underlying mental health issues. I'm going to try to explicitly spell it out for you. I made a point of not mentioning my personal usage because it's unimportant. Regardless of whether I do or don't, it's a bad assumption for you to make either way. Why don't you just put aside whether/how much I personally smoke. quote:If you can't face a day sober, there is a reason for it. Its not because being high is defacto superior to being sober, because it absolutely is not. There's a difference between wanting to stop someone from smoking as much weed as they want and recognizing that it could be indicative of problems. Nobody is saying they can't face the day sober and that's ok. People are saying they prefer to be high during the day. There's a big difference.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:53
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a lovely poster posted:I'm going to try to explicitly spell it out for you. I made a point of not mentioning my personal usage because it's unimportant. Regardless of whether I do or don't, it's a bad assumption for you to make either way. Why don't you just put aside whether/how much I personally smoke. I only mentioned it in two jokes making fun of you. quote:Nobody is saying they can't face the day sober and that's ok. People are saying they prefer to be high during the day. There's a big difference. Its like you have a big wheel you spin for every point you want to make and the only options are Hostility and Denial.
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Aug 24, 2013 00:09
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Bundt Cake posted:Its like you have a big wheel you spin for every point you want to make and the only options are Hostility and Denial. What exactly is hostile about explaining to you that you're constructing strawmen when you say things like "can't face the day sober" because nobody has said that is a healthy amount to do of anything. There's no denial, no hostility. What do you expect me to say? If you're going to "Yes. You did." to me about things I don't say I wouldn't expect the most jovial responses. "Making jokes" or whatever poo poo excuse you want to give for your mistakes, you tried to call me out on personal details incorrectly twice, how about you just stop? a lovely poster fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 00:24
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We should all strive to do things that are productive and beneficial for society in general, such as lecturing others via internet forums about the dangers of marijuana use exceeding x units per day
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Aug 24, 2013 00:26
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a lovely poster posted:What exactly is hostile about explaining to you that you're constructing strawmen when you say things like "can't face the day sober" because nobody has said that is a healthy amount to do of anything. There's no denial, no hostility. What do you expect me to say? If you're going to "Yes. You did." to me about things I don't say I wouldn't expect the most jovial responses. "Making jokes" or whatever poo poo excuse you want to give for your mistakes, you tried to call me out on personal details incorrectly twice, how about you just stop? My mistake was assuming that you smoke weed, which you don't, but you actually do, but its not important, except to the premise of the post I made, which was correct, but it wasn't, but it was, but it's not important. And being condescending such as saying things like you're going to explicitly spell it out for me, implying that I'm an idiot, is hostile. Hopefully this information can help you improve your personal relationships in the future.
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Aug 24, 2013 00:35
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I dunno if this is all an elaborate attempt to troll people like Warchicken, but to second he or she: I smoke weed every day, because I've discovered that when I do the massive social anxiety and depression that I deal with daily vanishes. Could I go to a doctor and get a prescription for zoloft? Sure, in fact I have before. Unlike zoloft, however, I don't have the side effects when I smoke cannabis. I also am about a year and a half away from a PhD in astrophysics, and I'm tenured faculty at a community college. When I smoke I'm way, way more productive than when I don't. It's illegal where I live, too, but it's also imho worth the risk because I'm literally a normal human being because of it.
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Aug 24, 2013 00:41
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I Palindrome I posted:also imho worth the risk because I'm literally a normal human being because of it. Haha, no, you're a stoner druggie! It's a horrible thing to need marijuana every single day to function and it makes you a detriment to society; you should switch to taking a daily Paxil© so that you can stop being such a potted-up loser! 
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Aug 24, 2013 01:20
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Jumping on the smoking cannabis every day train. I smoke every day because from when I wake up in the morning to when I go to bed at night, I'm in pain. I was in a really bad car accident. After seeing different doctors for different problems, I was getting prescribed pharmaceutical medication containing opiates. They make me ill to my stomach when I take them, they provide no relief, and the morning after I take them I always wake up with really bad headaches. I talked to my doctors about this and I told them I would rather just smoke cannabis. They (off the record of my medical notes) agreed with me and told me if it helps me, to continue using it. I'm still prescribed the medication, but I just stockpile it for disposal later.
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Aug 24, 2013 06:56
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Devyl posted:Jumping on the smoking cannabis every day train. I smoke every day because from when I wake up in the morning to when I go to bed at night, I'm in pain. I was in a really bad car accident. After seeing different doctors for different problems, I was getting prescribed pharmaceutical medication containing opiates. They make me ill to my stomach when I take them, they provide no relief, and the morning after I take them I always wake up with really bad headaches. I talked to my doctors about this and I told them I would rather just smoke cannabis. They (off the record of my medical notes) agreed with me and told me if it helps me, to continue using it. I'm still prescribed the medication, but I just stockpile it for disposal later. We'd get way more societal benefits if you didn't do that. My gut tells me so as does common sense.
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Aug 24, 2013 07:42
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Powercrazy posted:Nope. Smoking "a" weed everyday, isn't going to make you blazed 24/7, anymore than drinking a beer is going to make you drunk all day. Smoking/Drinking 15 times a day, everyday, is a reasonable (to me and others) cause for concern however. Is your argument that generally smoking a lot is a cause for concern, or are you literally still stuck on the "15 joints" thing? Is there a specific number of joints per day someone can smoke that you don't think is over the line? Bundt Cake posted:My mistake was assuming that you smoke weed, which you don't, but you actually do, but its not important, except to the premise of the post I made, which was correct, but it wasn't, but it was, but it's not important. Is this humor?
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Aug 24, 2013 08:26
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Warchicken posted:We'd get way more societal benefits if you didn't do that. My gut tells me so as does common sense. How does society benefit from me taking medication for pain that doesn't work and makes me wanna puke? I still take it on occasion when I absolutely need to, but I explained how cannabis helps me feel better without the horrible side-effects to my doctors. After thorough conversations, the majority of my doctors agreed with me on the use of cannabis over pharmaceuticals for my particular issues. Maybe it's because most of my doctors are younger people around my age (early 30's). I'm not advocating that everyone just quit taking their meds and smoke pot, but I do suggest talking to your doctor about it if you want a professional opinion & recommendation.
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Aug 24, 2013 08:29
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Devyl posted:How does society benefit from me taking medication for pain that doesn't work and makes me wanna puke? I still take it on occasion when I absolutely need to, but I explained how cannabis helps me feel better without the horrible side-effects to my doctors. After thorough conversations, the majority of my doctors agreed with me on the use of cannabis over pharmaceuticals for my particular issues. Maybe it's because most of my doctors are younger people around my age (early 30's). I'm not advocating that everyone just quit taking their meds and smoke pot, but I do suggest talking to your doctor about it if you want a professional opinion & recommendation. Your story sounds like this guy's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07_f2F84B3k
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Aug 24, 2013 08:36
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Murmur Twin posted:Do you think the fact that smoking pot is illegal contributes to the fact that people mostly smoke at home? Quoted for truth. I find these stoner shut in strawmen to be kind of hilarious since, with the legalization of weed, there would be Dutch coffeehouses and bars focused on weed as opposed to beer or liquor for people to enjoy a toke on a spliff, joint, or vaporizer while enjoying the company of others. With the latter especially, you'd have something to indulge in that's both healthier for you than alcohol and encourages healthy social interaction! I think the real issue at hand - as evidenced by several posters in this very thread - is this unspoken bias towards pot smokers as silly, filthy, morally inferior, lesser than, etc by both non tokers and hypocrites like Obama that allows pot smokers to be marginalized, criminalized, and ultimately persecuted as undesirables by society and government at large - even more so when so many pot smokers are still in the closet and important figures refuse to go on record as indulgers (eg Bill "I never inhaled" Clinton, Obama, etc). This is the same bullshit attitudes and societal biases that allowed Jews to be legally marginalized in the 19th century and homosexuals and minorities to be persecuted in the mid to late 20th century with anti-sodomy/miscegenation laws and disgusting public attitudes towards gays and the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s. Your biases towards pot smokers and how they lead their lives makes you part and parcel of the problem and a road block to the momentum of history. That blood also stains your hands.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:38
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Here is this thread's problem: Some posters view the effects of pot as presenting an altered state of reality. Other posters view the effects of as enhancing reality.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:17
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I guess you could say that someone who is baked 24/7 will not be able to have a lot of serious physical exercise which is an important part of leading an healthy life.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:06
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Miltank posted:Here is this thread's problem: Where is the problem exactly? Those statements aren't mutually exclusive. Fados posted:I guess you could say that someone who is baked 24/7 will not be able to have a lot of serious physical exercise which is an important part of leading an healthy life. What makes you think being "baked" prevents physical exercise?
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Aug 24, 2013 21:07
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Fados posted:I guess you could say that someone who is baked 24/7 will not be able to have a lot of serious physical exercise which is an important part of leading an healthy life. I get high before working out all the time. It's the best! Unless by "baked" you mean just so high that you get couch-lock and can't do anything. I would say remaining in that state all day is pretty terrible, but definitely not the norm for most weed smokers.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:10
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I guessed it's kind of obvious. Energy levels drop down when you smoke weed. You can't breath as deep, and you get tired faster. I have seen this everytime with everybody I smoked with. People don't tend to go for a jog after smoking weed. I have actually tried to go for a run and even went to the gym once while stoned with hilarious results.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:15
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Fados posted:I guessed it's kind of obvious. Energy levels drop down when you smoke weed. Nope quote:You can't breath as deep, and you get tired faster. Nope quote:I have seen this everytime with everybody I smoked with. People don't tend to go for a jog after smoking weed. I have actually tried to go for a run and even went to the gym once while stoned with hilarious results. Nobody cares about your anecdotes
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Aug 24, 2013 21:20
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Fados posted:I guessed it's kind of obvious. Energy levels drop down when you smoke weed. You can't breath as deep, and you get tired faster. I have seen this everytime with everybody I smoked with. People don't tend to go for a jog after smoking weed. I have actually tried to go for a run and even went to the gym once while stoned with hilarious results. Oh hey dude 
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Aug 24, 2013 21:20
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Fados posted:I guessed it's kind of obvious. Energy levels drop down when you smoke weed. You can't breath as deep, and you get tired faster. I have seen this everytime with everybody I smoked with. People don't tend to go for a jog after smoking weed. I have actually tried to go for a run and even went to the gym once while stoned with hilarious results. Stop smoking cannabis indica. Start smoking cannabis sativa. Clean your house to a spotless shine.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:26
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Ok, so I guess what you're saying is that it wouldn't have mattered, in terms of physical fitness and performance, if Michael Phelps smoked a big fat blunt just before every time he jumped in the pool.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:30
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mdemone posted:Stop smoking cannabis indica. Start smoking cannabis sativa. Clean your house to a spotless shine. I've heard a lot about the difference between these but never really got around to see the difference. Where I live I get hash most of time which is really a numbing experience for the body.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:32
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Fados posted:Ok, so I guess what you're saying is that it wouldn't have mattered, in terms of physical fitness and performance, if Michael Phelps smoked a big fat blunt just before every time he jumped in the pool. I'm saying that the winningest athlete in the history of the modern Olympic Games uses marijuana soooo
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Aug 24, 2013 21:33
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Fados posted:I've heard a lot about the difference between these but never really got around to see the difference. Where I live I get hash most of time which is really a numbing experience for the body. There are two primary psychoactive ingredients in cannabis (and a few others in trace amounts): tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD). They have very different effects; THC is what gives you the crazy mental activity and thought processes, and gives you a feeling of energetic well-being and often, a focus on creativity. CBD is the "body high" that relaxes anxiety and induces couch-lock. Strains are characterized by their THC/CBD ratio. The higher that ratio, the more active you will likely be after smoking it. Sativas have high THC/CBD, indicas have relatively lower THC/CBD. Of course most strains now available are hybrids to at least some degree, but you can trace the genetics (and the physiology of a particular plant) to determine how much of a sativa it will be versus indica. There are some pure strains around that are one or the other, but it's not common. Hash is generally high in CBD, because the process of making hash tends to destroy relatively more of the THC, so using hash is basically like smoking a strong indica (like OG Kush or something) and it is going to put you on your rear end.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:39
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Fados posted:I guessed it's kind of obvious. Energy levels drop down when you smoke weed. You can't breath as deep, and you get tired faster. I have seen this everytime with everybody I smoked with. People don't tend to go for a jog after smoking weed. I have actually tried to go for a run and even went to the gym once while stoned with hilarious results. You don't know what you're talking about. Can't breathe deep? I'm an orchestral wind musician and I play high all the time. And I just won yet another audition this week. You just accept these things as normal, even though they are just how you are. I get high and go to class and take notes, play symphonies and operas, exercise, gently caress, and everything else while high as poo poo and none of those things are negatively impacted. It is different for different people. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you want to argue with me about lung capacity and use while high feel free to get a few degrees in using your lungs first. It's a 'you' thing, something subjective and not empirical. Any impact on actual lung function is from taking painfully large hits or is so small your average joe won't notice it except if he already decided his lungs aren't working as well. empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 21:40
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Ok, I give it that the breathing thing might be a personal thing. The point I was making more broadly was about physical fitness, and energy levels and according to you there is some types of plants that would allow me to be high all day and still go for a jog or to the gym without any fallout? I find that hard to believe given my experience, but I'll be on the lookout for some sativas then.
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Aug 24, 2013 22:25
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Fados posted:Ok, I give it that the breathing thing might be a personal thing. The point I was making more broadly was about physical fitness, and energy levels and according to you there is some types of plants that would allow me to be high all day and still go for a jog or to the gym without any fallout? I find that hard to believe given my experience, but I'll be on the lookout for some sativas then. Yes, you're still wrong. There is nothing about being high that stops you from being productive. If you don't want to be productive, you won't be, simple as that. It has nothing to do with being high. If we were talking about heroin, that wouldn't be true at all, same with alcohol or any other hard drug.
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Aug 24, 2013 22:33
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Warchicken posted:If you want to argue with me about lung capacity and use while high feel free to get a few degrees in using your lungs first. It's a 'you' thing, something subjective and not empirical. Any impact on actual lung function is from taking painfully large hits or is so small your average joe won't notice it except if he already decided his lungs aren't working as well. Actually, it is empirical. Cannabis functions as a bronchodilator, so you most likely can breathe deeper after indulging. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1429361/
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Aug 24, 2013 22:35
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