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systran posted:I got halfway through book two and gave up on it forever. Did you feel that the "Keats" thing was going a bit too far in book one? Maybe it felt like he was trying to give a nod to an author he liked and got slightly carried away? Well in book two you get a ROBOT JOHN KEATS as a viewpoint character, wait actually I think you get two robot Keats, each a different version. That female detective character falls in love with the first robot Keats, by the way.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:03
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When I finished Hyperion I enjoyed it but I could somehow tell that it was the high point of that writer's work and if continued would collapse. Nothing I've heard since has shaken that conclusion. And then Simmons put his crazy out in the open and it was all over.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:12
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buildmorefarms posted:My wife's hunting for some examples (for a class of 16-17 year olds) of "difficult/sophisticated" fantasy novels in order to demonstrate how titles within the same genre can vary wildly in terms of: My first thought was Wolfe's The Fifth Head of Cerberus, which is sf but has very fantasyish furniture. Peace is a fantasy, but well-disguised as a maintream novel. Also Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber (maybe her "Puss-in-Boots", which is all about the languague), Jack Vance (maybe "Chun the Unavoidable" from The Dying Earth, or an episode from the Cugel books) or an extract from Little, Big by John Crowley or the Titus books (these are long novels). You could also try looking at The Book of Fantasy edited by Bioy Cesares and Borges (or Borges himself) and Italo Calvino's Fantastic Stories for fantasy outside the genre per se, which are fairly catholic selections. That's too big a list, and the Wolfe books in particular are difficult to recommend cos they're so complex and without teaching aids. I also can't think of anybody contemporary or teenagery who'd be an easier sell.
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Aug 23, 2013 00:23
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buildmorefarms posted:My wife's hunting for some examples (for a class of 16-17 year olds) of "difficult/sophisticated" fantasy novels in order to demonstrate how titles within the same genre can vary wildly in terms of: I consider To Reign in Hell as sort of fantasy. Actually, Steven Brust's The Pheonix Guard and the other Khaavren romances might fit the bill, as well. Since it is a direct homage as well, that would be potentially interesting trivia about it, although it's pretty hard to get into for some people, and I don't know if high schoolers would mostly be able to stay on top of the florid language. James Morrow's pretty solid and approachable for a young audience, although I don't know if he's written anything that's swords and sorcery fantasy, and Towing Jehovah might get a teacher into hot water if there's a fundie kid (or parents) who decide to become offended..
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Aug 23, 2013 00:55
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Peel posted:When I finished Hyperion I enjoyed it but I could somehow tell that it was the high point of that writer's work and if continued would collapse. It turns out, he was the Shrike all along. Except instead of having lots of sharp spikes and superpowers, he only can terrify us with his misogyny and racism 
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Aug 23, 2013 00:56
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Peel posted:When I finished Hyperion I enjoyed it but I could somehow tell that it was the high point of that writer's work and if continued would collapse.
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Aug 23, 2013 01:29
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Just finished up Black Blade Blues by J.A. Pitts. It was... weird. It kinda reminds me of the first Dresden Files book, where you get the idea it can be a great series but the book itself kinda sucks. Has anyone read the series? I'm hoping to hear it goes more into kick rear end territory and less about "oh, woe is me, angsty lesbian with esteem issues".
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Aug 23, 2013 04:42
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Am I correct in thinking the plot of 2312 is very similar to Blue Remembered Earth? I just started to former and it so far seems like a repeat.
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Aug 23, 2013 15:15
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I just finished reading Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos. Man, what the hell happened there? The first two books (Hyperion especially) were stunning. They were so loving gooooood. Hyperion was a wonderful sci-fi horror novel in the vein of Alien or Prometheus and Fall of Hyperion was just one huge apocalyptic roller coaster that ended on such an amazing note. Simmons had an amazing skill at conveying centuries of history or pages worth of backstory in a few simple lines (Kassad's story in Hyperion comes to mind). Then Dan Simmons felt the need to write two sequels filled with exhausting descriptions of clothes and planets (often they'd go on for a good 20 pages), awful retcons (everything relating to the TechnoCore? "Um, they lied and Martin got it wrong") and dumb exposition. That's to say nothing of the terrible pacing. I found myself skimming and skipping entire paragraphs at a time. Raul was such a terrible and bland protagonist in every way. Absolutely nothing noteworthy about him. He was the most average man ever who had no agency of his own; he just stumbled between scenes and did what was told. Anytime he'd demand some straight answers from that precocious little girl, he'd just get stonewalled and told he would know the answer soon. Father Captain de Soya on the other hand, was a much better protagonist (for a while). Unfortunately, Simmons felt the need to abandon his POV all together during the times when de Soya was actually doing interesting things. He even managed to retroactively ruin the Shrike. I don't want to know any more about it. I want it to remain the terrifying monster built up in the first two books. There was enough there to read between the lines and let your imagination fill in the blanks. I don't want to be told how it gets around, or read descriptions of it wading stupidly out into the water just to play up a scare. The Shrike was a terrifying force of nature, a four armed monstrosity made of blades that kidnaps pilgrims and impales them on its massive tree of thorns. What a loving concept! Now he's just getting his rear end beat by a bunch of anime robo-clones whenever he swoops in like the terrible Terminator 2 Deus Ex Machina he is. e: I should ask, any recommendations for other books in the same vein as the first two books? SMP fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 14:43
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Nondescript Van posted:Am I correct in thinking the plot of 2312 is very similar to Blue Remembered Earth? I just started to former and it so far seems like a repeat. They both came out very close to each other last year and the consensus back then was "Don't read them one after another". I read them a year or so apart, personally. And it's true, both start with the death of a grandmother that leads to a journey of discovery around the solar system. But then they diverge quite a lot, so don't worry. 2312 does the "tour of the solar system" a lot better, I must say. That book is so full of imagination and beauty. I loved it. Reynolds' book is more of his standard thrill ride fare, the settings being imaginative but taking a backseat to the plot; whereas Robinson's style is slow and ponderous and leisurely. It's all about the settings, the plot is almost inconsequential. You can't really rush through 2312, you have to savour morsels of it at a time. Some people HATE the characters though. Personally I didn't find Swan too bad, and I really loved Warham. I also refer you to what I said earlier in this thread about 2312: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3554972&userid=133813#post417005969 ... it really is a divisive novel and, in my opinion, unfairly maligned.
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Aug 24, 2013 15:29
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Just finished The Left Hand of God by Paul Hoffman, as well as the second book in the series, The Last Four Things the third book is out as well however, I was annoyed to find that it's only available on kindle in the amazon UK kindle store (does anyone know of any issues with buying an ebook from another region's kindle store?) The books were pretty good and I will definitely be reading the third asap however, I don't know if I agree with the opinions of the series' protagonist as an anti-hero from a different cut of cloth than Kvothe or Jorge. A lot of the novel is directly lifted from other sources, and while the author makes no illusions about it and name-drops as many references as he can think of, it still sometimes comes across as ringing a bit hollow for me. The similarities between Left Hand and the Prince of Thorns series are many, up to and including both authors creating worlds which are both 'future Earths'. Cale does a lot of violent flailing and cannot control his emotions ("I don't like getting angry, it makes me angry," anyone?) so I really had a tough time seeing him any differently than Jorge - although to my memory of Prince/Emporer of Thorns, Jorge certainly seemed to 'grow up' a lot more in the second novel (still haven't read the third) than Cale ever changes in any way. Cale's also extremely callous with the use of his troops and peers, tends to pick fights at parties simply because he's a little shitheel, and acts like a total creep to his romantic interest. The romance is bog-standard fantasy stuff. My real criticism of Hoffman comes from his fetish for using extremely obscure words constantly (this is part of why I want the third on Kindle, so I can reference the dictionary to find out if it's made-up or not), as well as a lot of "Anathem"-style made-up or half-made-up words. He also tends to jump forward extremely quickly after barely mentioning many key happenings, to the point where I would sometimes need to backtrack for 5-10-20 pages just to confirm whether or not he'd previously mentioned (the protagonist's romance in the first book had a section like this, where I missed one sentence earlier, and then suddenly the author was going on about how often they were knocking boots and I hadn't even realized there'd been a hook-up). Hoffman also wrote the screenplay for The Wisdom of Crocodiles, which surprised me (since the essence in 'Wisdom' cropped up in this series as well, in a pretty recognizable fashion) since I definitely thought I recognized some similarites but had assumed it was just another bit that the author had cribbed from another source. Wisdom of Crocodiles is a pretty good movie starring a fairly original kind of vampire, played by Jude Law. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Aug 24, 2013 |
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Aug 24, 2013 16:49
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So I am looking for some new fantasy to read. I've read everything by Terry Brooks, Tolkien, Rowling, Salvatore and 1/4 of Discworld (and I've loved every book by every one of the aforementioned authors so far), and loads of other fantasy books the past 13 years. My last love was for Anne Bishops "Dark Jewels" books, and I'm currently looking for more like that. Strong female characters, a bit smut, some magic and lots of different humanoid races. I'm also looking for something with dragons that isn't D&D or DragonLance (Don't get me wrong, as I said, I love every D&D book put out by R.A. Salvatore, and I really liked the 8 first books in DragonLance too, I just want something else). I read "The Heart of Myrial" by Maggie Furey and the other books in "Shadowleague" 10 years ago and I loved them, so maybe something like that? Oh, and something with elves, where the elves are evil and malign, and again, no D&D or such. I read "The Guardian Cycle" by Julia Gray 11-12 years ago, and it was great and first put me on track for elves that weren't always "good" or "neutral", but just plain evil (like the drow in D&D). So … Any tips?
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Aug 25, 2013 03:27
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Datasmurf posted:
Why, yes. Have you heard of a Dance with Dragons by George R.R. Martin? It is the light-hearted tale of a loveable scamp named Reek (it rhymes with meek, the book likes to tell you) as he attempts to win the heart of the Lady Jeyne Poole in the most romantic way possible. Along the way we meet a dragon queen (with somewhat irritated bowels), adorabe dire wolves, and a boy who becomes a tree. It's an all-ages instant classic that you can enjoy by yourself (grown up time) or read aloud to your kids for a fun bedtime treat,
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Aug 25, 2013 03:47
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Datasmurf posted:So I am looking for some new fantasy to read. You are looking for Michael Swanwick's "Dragons of Babel" and "Iron Dragon's Daughter"
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Aug 25, 2013 03:51
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Datasmurf posted:So … Any tips? Here are a few things I read and enjoyed: As far as fantasy smut goes (I feel ya there, I love it too), I really liked the first Kushiel trilogy by Jacqueline Carey. She doesn't get much love around here but I thought the world building was great. It also went on to help me designate my own safe-word, if that gives you any clue what kind of smut we're talking about here. Start with Kushiel's Dart and go on from there. This isn't smut but it sounds like it might be up your alley as far as strong females go. The Bone Doll's Twin by Lynn Flewelling. It's about a girl who lived the first part of her life as a boy because reasons. I'm on the last book right now, it's been great so far. I honestly don't read much fantasy with the general fantasy races so I can't help you there, but I'm rather curious as to what others recommend.
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Aug 25, 2013 05:06
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Datasmurf posted:So I am looking for some new fantasy to read. Here are some elves you don't want to piss off:. The Last Hot Time by John M. Ford. Oh, and it has safe words as well. specklebang fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Aug 25, 2013 |
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Aug 25, 2013 05:16
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Datasmurf posted:So I am looking for some new fantasy to read.
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Aug 25, 2013 06:12
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Datasmurf posted:So I am looking for some new fantasy to read. Pratchett's Lords and Ladies has evil elves. It's part of the witches cycle.
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Aug 25, 2013 08:47
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Datasmurf posted:So I am looking for some new fantasy to read. The other three-quarters of Discworld.
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Aug 25, 2013 10:40
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I'm trying to get into the Culture books, and picked up Consider Phlebas. I didn't enjoy it very much- it felt like a lot of diversions in between a few good highlights, and then fifty pages of constant cuts between five different perspectives while a train slooooooowly speeds up. I remember that another book in the series was recommended as a first read, but I can't remember which one. Should I just go on to Player of Games if I'm still interested?
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Aug 25, 2013 10:45
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Player of Games is the other one that's recommended as a starting point. If you're interested at all, just keep reading in publication order, although you'll know by Player of Games whether you want to keep reading or not.
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Aug 25, 2013 10:57
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John Charity Spring posted:Player of Games is the other one that's recommended as a starting point. If you're interested at all, just keep reading in publication order, although you'll know by Player of Games whether you want to keep reading or not. This is not strictly true. I really like The Player of Games, but dislike the other Culture stories I've read. (I didn't think much of The Wasp Factory either, for what it's worth.)
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Aug 25, 2013 11:02
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John Charity Spring posted:Player of Games is the other one that's recommended as a starting point. If you're interested at all, just keep reading in publication order, although you'll know by Player of Games whether you want to keep reading or not. Or Use of Weapons. The fluidly shifting timeframes and perspectives might be more annoying. Look to Windward is gaining traction as an intro to the Culture, and it doesn't have any narrative games in it like almost every other novel in the setting.
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Aug 25, 2013 11:03
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coyo7e posted:After that list of authors, David Gemmell is a big step up. Yup. Even his early books, which can be a bit shaky in places, are miles better than anything Brooks, Rowling or Salvatore ever shat out. I'd recommend starting with the Rigante series, then going back and reading Legend.
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Aug 25, 2013 12:23
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Datasmurf posted:Oh, and something with elves, where the elves are evil and malign, and again, no D&D or such. I read "The Guardian Cycle" by Julia Gray 11-12 years ago, and it was great and first put me on track for elves that weren't always "good" or "neutral", but just plain evil (like the drow in D&D). You might dig Chris Evans' Iron Elves series.
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Aug 25, 2013 12:48
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Thanks for the tips. I've written down every author and title on my phone, so I'll know what to look for the next time I visit a used books store or for whenever I get money to spend on more books. I am much obliged. 
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Aug 25, 2013 13:23
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Cheston posted:I'm trying to get into the Culture books, and picked up Consider Phlebas. I didn't enjoy it very much- it felt like a lot of diversions in between a few good highlights, and then fifty pages of constant cuts between five different perspectives while a train slooooooowly speeds up. Start and end with Use of Weapons.
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Aug 25, 2013 21:49
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John Charity Spring posted:Player of Games is the other one that's recommended as a starting point. If you're interested at all, just keep reading in publication order, although you'll know by Player of Games whether you want to keep reading or not. Cheston - Listen to this guy quoted here; goons here rightly hold up Use of Weapons, but I don't I would've appreciated it fully if I hadn't gotten a view of the Culture beforehand through Player of Games, and that novel is good. I also read Consider Phlebas first and it looks like you have the same reaction I had. It was probably a couple years until I got around to giving the next novel in the series a go, but it was worth it.
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Aug 26, 2013 03:07
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I'm pretty sure I read Excession first and loved it, but I might be alone here on that.
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Aug 26, 2013 03:27
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Nope, that was my first one too. I don't think I'd recommend it as a starting point to others, though, despite being personally pleased.
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Aug 26, 2013 04:06
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I actually read Matter first, and it was good enough to get me interested in the rest of the books, so I read Player of Games next and enjoyed it ever more. Unfortunately, the next one I read was Consider Phlebas and that pretty much stopped me reading them for a while. I think I'd follow the consensus and say Player of Games is the best start point, but I think Matter holds up pretty well on its own and has enough action and lack of weird narrative stuff to make a reasonably decent introduction
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Aug 26, 2013 04:19
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Mimir posted:I'm pretty sure I read Excession first and loved it, but I might be alone here on that.
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Aug 26, 2013 17:10
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I also read Consider Phlebas first and wasn't very impressed by it ( it's the book i like the least out of the entire series i think ). Like the others said Player of Games and Use of Weapons both are much better starting points, although Use of Weapons can get a bit hard to follow.
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Aug 26, 2013 21:01
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I am a huge Banks fan and yeah I didn't like Consider Phlebas much either, though the ending does bring something to the table.
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Aug 26, 2013 21:06
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Going to jump in on Banks, have picked up Player of Games and Use of Weapons - looks like I am in for a treat - thanks for the recommendations.
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Aug 26, 2013 21:50
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Just chiming in to say that that was a great OP. I was going to ask whether I should read Rendezvous with Rama or Childhood's End, but the guide in the OP had me decide on Childhood's End.
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Aug 27, 2013 01:07
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I'm nearly finished The Uplift War by David Brin. It's good but not as good as Startide Rising - probably just because I like the fins more than the chims. I wanted to ask though (please no spoilers) do the central mysteries get answered in the second trilogy? Or is more of a side story? It definitely sounds like a side story from the blurbs I've read. By the time I finish this six book series will I know definitively: a) about the Progenitors, b) who uplifted humanity (if anyone), c) exactly what the Streaker found, and d) what happened to the Streaker and its crew after Startide Rising? Or has Brin yet to write all of that?
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Aug 27, 2013 06:08
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Oh boy The Emperor of Thorns was underwhelming. The setting interested me enough to force myself through three pretty unlikable books but Mark Lawrence was too in love with his weird brooding anime prince to expand on the great world he created. I've also decided to read a YA book or two since I basically never have in my life. I think I'm going to be book sad for a long time.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:34
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The new Shadows of the Apt came out a few weeks ago. The series is insane and I love it. At the beginning of the series they have airships and a few pseudo-rifles. Nine books in they are firing railguns at giant mechanical centipedes. Also he puts these things out at ridiculous speed although he seems to be slowing down slightly as we head to what I assume is the endgame. I think we used to have a thread but it seems to be gone now. I recommend it to anyone who wants a long fun fantasy series with a unique setting. First book is Empire in Black and Gold.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:48
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Wangsbig posted:I've also decided to read a YA book or two since I basically never have in my life. I think I'm going to be book sad for a long time. The best YA novel I've ever read, that is to say the best novel that has been called YA (it almost feels like a pejorative these days, in that a good novel can't also be YA), is Sabriel by Garth Nix. But I suppose this recommendation misses the mark if you want to read "proper" YA as it's commonly understood, i.e. stuff like Divergent or Beautiful Creatures.
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