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Baron Bifford posted:It seems the only loyal Primarch who is still alive is Lion'El, of the Dark Angels. He's sleeping in a secret chamber beneath their fortress monastery, and only the Watchers in the Dark know about it. Why they are not reviving him is anyone's guess. The return of a Primarch would shake the Imperium to its core, reverse a lot of stupidity and injustice. The Lion is a psychopath, though. He'd probably just make everything worse.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:32
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Man, just a thought, but if GW had one of the Primarchs come back, and start making waves, they could write a bit where some high lord of terra orders his assasination or some such thing
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Aug 27, 2013 16:39
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Neurosis posted:Guilliman <might> be healing, too. Much as people poo poo on him he's the Primarch most likely to actually get poo poo done. After reading Know No Fear, I have no problem believing that Gulliman could have a strategy for returning from the dead. Man knows how to Plan.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:41
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Kenlon posted:After reading Know No Fear, I have no problem believing that Gulliman could have a strategy for returning from the dead. Man knows how to Plan. Yeah, thanks to Know No Fear and the rest of the Calth stories, I really genuinely like the Ultramarines (at least as they're depicted during the heresy). Guilliman writes the codex, and then tells his dudes that "hey, listen, the codex is REALLY GOOD but even I can't account for everything so sometimes you just gotta get poo poo done." That last part seems to have slipped from the memory of the Ultramarines at some point, unfortunately. Basically Dan Abnett is a wizzard and was able to make even the most boring legion cool and interesting.
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Aug 27, 2013 16:45
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hopterque posted:Yeah, thanks to Know No Fear and the rest of the Calth stories, I really genuinely like the Ultramarines (at least as they're depicted during the heresy). Guilliman writes the codex, and then tells his dudes that "hey, listen, the codex is REALLY GOOD but even I can't account for everything so sometimes you just gotta get poo poo done." Its funny because the fluff regarding the Alpha Legion and the death of Alpharius makes it sound like the Ultramarines, even under Guilliman, were devoted to following the Codex to the letter.
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Aug 27, 2013 17:07
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Shadowhand00 posted:Its funny because the fluff regarding the Alpha Legion and the death of Alpharius makes it sound like the Ultramarines, even under Guilliman, were devoted to following the Codex to the letter. Hopefully ADB and Abnett best bros for life will retcon all that.
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Aug 27, 2013 17:13
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The bit in the Soul Hunter series with the Ultramarines successor chapters is more brilliant stuff along the same lines.
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Aug 27, 2013 17:34
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Has Pertuabo gotten any characterizing other than really good at fortresses and hating Rogal Dorn?
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Aug 27, 2013 17:36
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Shadowhand00 posted:Its funny because the fluff regarding the Alpha Legion and the death of Alpharius makes it sound like the Ultramarines, even under Guilliman, were devoted to following the Codex to the letter. Clearly that fluff comes from a report written by some inquisition functionary a thousand years after the actual event that didn't know what he was talking about and then was even more mangled by another nine-thousand years of data corruption and language shifts. Basically any and all fluff is subject to change at any time because nobody really knows what happened 10,000 years in the past. If anything, the Wolves have changed the least and in part that may be because of their focus on oral traditions, ritual practices, and cultural continuity versus a reliance on texts, recorded histories, and electronic records all of which are subject to corruption, loss, and outright manipulation or fabrication by the inquisition and other such parties.
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Aug 27, 2013 17:41
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Ever played the telephone game? Information passed orally is especially prone to corruption.
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Aug 27, 2013 18:00
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Oral transmission was actually quite reliable because it's based on student-teacher interaction over a long period of time, so there is less chance of someone not fully understanding the material being passed on. Pre-modern peoples in general were far more interested in propagating an accurate understanding of the meaning of their history versus literal facts. Learning is far more than the memorization and regurgitation of words. You're actually a pretty good example of someone who's capable of reading and remembering factoids but lacks any true understanding of the material. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 18:10
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I've read books that beg to differ, but that's not really important here. I've read that the Space Wolves have a dreadnought who is old enough to remember the Emperor. Why doesn't the Imperium talk to him much? He probably remembers the Imperial Truth. Cream_Filling posted:You're actually a pretty good example of someone who's capable of reading and remembering but lacks true understanding. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 18:13
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bunnyofdoom posted:Has Pertuabo gotten any characterizing other than really good at fortresses and hating Rogal Dorn? Angel Exterminatus makes him pretty interesting and sympathetic. It's no Betrayer, but it's still worth a read. Baron Bifford posted:I've read that the Space Wolves have a dreadnought who is old enough to remember the Emperor. Why doesn't the Imperium talk to him much? He probably remembers the Imperial Truth. That's why. The Space Wolves have enough problems with the Inquisition as it is.
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Aug 27, 2013 18:21
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Potooweet posted:That's why. More like "the Imperium" isn't a single dude who cruises around talking to people. And the Inquisition isn't a singular entity either. If some random inquisitor just showed up in the Fenris system and asked them to show him around the Fang and then wake up the oldest Space Wolf in the galaxy from his sacred slumber so they could have a chat, he'd probably get a pretty cold welcome.
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Aug 27, 2013 18:32
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Also, in general there's no guarantee that Bjorn is going to be a particularly reliable narrator just because he's from M30. Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but he's as set in his own ideology as anyone else in the setting.
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Aug 27, 2013 19:33
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Also Deadnaughts are kinda crazy to begin with, let alone one that is over 10 millennia old. He's like your crazy grandpa at family reunions.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:34
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Demon Of The Fall posted:He's like your crazy grandpa at family reunions. But with more firepower and more  stories.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:37
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mllaneza posted:But with more firepower and more Depends on what your family is like I suppose.
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Aug 27, 2013 21:00
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mllaneza posted:But with more firepower and more He's just tired of this whole furry Space Wolf poo poo that the Vlka Fenryka have become obsessed with. What happened to a good night of drunken fighting and retelling the great sagas.  
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Aug 27, 2013 21:33
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If for some reason, someone in this thread hasn't seen this you need to click it http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed
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Aug 27, 2013 22:19
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Shadowhand00 posted:He's just tired of this whole furry Space Wolf poo poo that the Vlka Fenryka have become obsessed with. What happened to a good night of drunken fighting and retelling the great sagas. Which reminds me, how the hell do you pronounce Vlka?
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Aug 27, 2013 23:18
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Azran posted:Which reminds me, how the hell do you pronounce Vlka? Sha-chef-ski
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Aug 27, 2013 23:23
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Slipping a bit into BL audiobooks: If you were curious about Chosen of Khorne...it's not good. It's a return to the school of annoying background sound effects, the voices of all the World Eaters sound alike except for Kharn, and his inner-voice sounds ridiculous. Half of it is empty descriptions of hack-and-slash that border on teenage fanfiction (I kept expecting the phrase "hyper-realistic blood" to pop up at some point). Plot-wise, it's even worse. While the good BL books make you see beyond the obvious theme of their subject or add to it in a creative, interesting manner, Chosen of Khorne goes full-retard and just lays on the cliches. Khorne Berserkers really are dumb troglodytes who will leap into a precipice if you tell them there's a fight at the bottom. Tens of thousands of chaos marines just butcher themselves in a single day rather than go on a crusade because one of them says "Why wait? Let's start chopping now!". I could see the 'twist' coming right from the start but kept hoping it wouldn't be quite that dumb...no luck. The betrayer betrays everyone and no one survives except a very boring, flat Kharn. It'd be bad enough if orks were written this way, but World Eaters? It adds nothing to the lore and the voice acting is not enough to give it flair. Skip this one unless you are really hurting for more chaos stuff.
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Aug 28, 2013 01:53
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Azran posted:Which reminds me, how the hell do you pronounce Vlka?
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Aug 28, 2013 01:54
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Sephyr posted:Slipping a bit into BL audiobooks: Yeah, it isn't great, but the fluff is full of daemon worlds where Khornate warbands just constantly beat the poo poo out of each other. Khorne cares not from whence the skulls come... And you're correct - that voice selection is awful. It's like they tried to make him a Russian vampire or something.
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Aug 28, 2013 01:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRVcdLPqoHg http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kharn Always makes me  whenever I read about this version of Kharn. That and his counter.
Shadowhand00 fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 02:14
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As far as Loyal Primarchs that could come back isn't it Robot - in statis and healing Russ - Looking for the tree of life in the warp. May find Valhalla first? Corax - Went into the warp because he is depressed at how many loving monstrosities he created in his quest to give his legion a rebirth. Perhaps stalking behind Magnus unseen stealing knowledge Khan - Dark Eldar torture puppet ~Neutral~ Lion - Sleeping and hidden on the rock Omegeron - potentially set up an end game betrayal to all of chaos since Alpha is potentially dead and he was left to his own, possibly loyal, devices. Basically if Big E awoke and revived or triggered the remaining Primarchs into action it could be the chance of the Imperium to finally fight back and gain ground against chaos, Nid, and Necron assualts. Course such an event might wake up a C'tan god and it goes from bad to worse. And knowing the WH40k universe the dragon on Mars would take that moment to awaken and devour Sol.
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Aug 28, 2013 07:22
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EyeRChris posted:As far as Loyal Primarchs that could come back isn't it Roboute returning would probably be the most interesting. He's really the truest "son" of the Emperor - not as well loved as Horus, but the one most able to follow in the Emperor's footsteps. Unlike all the other primarchs, he fully embraced and understood the end goal of the Great Crusade, rather than getting caught up in the mere execution of it.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:04
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EyeRChris posted:As far as Loyal Primarchs that could come back isn't it Vulkan is ambiguously alive as well.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:11
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I want Brin Milo to fulfil his destiny of stumbling over the power cable to Roboute's stasis field and freeing up the Primarch. I want Abnett to write the scene where the field goes down, every Ultramarine in the vicinity immediately shits themselves and kills whoever was responsible and when it's turned back on they realise he was getting out of his chair, so he's now frozen in an awkward crouch. They don't turn it off again.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:19
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It's too bad that Ferrus Manus is almost definitely dead because he would be loving appalled at his legion.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Vulkan is ambiguously alive as well. He's very much alive, being one of the primarchs that survived the Heresy and then just sort of... disappeared, in the following centuries. And unlike Leman Russ, he did leave behind instructions for his sons, cryptic as they may be. Improbable Lobster posted:It's too bad that Ferrus Manus is almost definitely dead because he would be loving appalled at his legion. That's the tragedy of it.
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Aug 28, 2013 08:27
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Didn't the Iron Hands turn incredibly hateful towards all Legions because the traitors ruined everything, and the loyalists weren't strong enough to completely beat them? From what little I've read about Ferrus pre-Heresy, he valued strength and disapproved those who weren't strong enough. Wasn't that how the Iron Hands still behaved after his death? They weren't exactly a humane legion.
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Aug 28, 2013 09:36
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Schneider Heim posted:Didn't the Iron Hands turn incredibly hateful towards all Legions because the traitors ruined everything, and the loyalists weren't strong enough to completely beat them? Ferrus also didn't like their obsession with bionics and wrote about wanting to remove his own iron skin after the crusade. He was also buddy-buddy with Fulgrim and probably wouldn't approve of their distrust of non-Mechanicum Imperials. The current Iron Hands operate on an extreme version of the Medusan clans and Ferrus's teachings, combined with plentiful machine-worship and self-loathing.
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Aug 28, 2013 09:58
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EyeRChris posted:As far as Loyal Primarchs that could come back isn't it How long can a Primarch survive without food and water? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 10:06
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Baron Bifford posted:Corax and Russ must be either dead or corrupted. Can a Primarch can take 10,000 years of Warp exposure? The Warp messes with time, so they probably have not subjectively experienced 10,000 years. edit: the "lost" primarchs are Checkhovian loaded guns in a play that refuses to enter its final act. DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 14:08
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Kenlon posted:Roboute returning would probably be the most interesting. He's really the truest "son" of the Emperor - not as well loved as Horus, but the one most able to follow in the Emperor's footsteps. Unlike all the other primarchs, he fully embraced and understood the end goal of the Great Crusade, rather than getting caught up in the mere execution of it. Gotta agree with this. While, say, Russ would probably be best for the Imperium from a purely generalship perspective, Know No Fear made it clear that Roboute is both a drat good general and an incredible administrator.
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Aug 28, 2013 14:13
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Baron Bifford posted:Corax and Russ must be either dead or corrupted. Can a Primarch can take 10,000 years of Warp exposure? Given the absolutely insane amount of punishment they can take, (Lorgar and Angron is Betrayer, Vulcan getting smoked on Istavaan, Russ and Magnus tearing each other apart on Prospero) I get the impression that they don't have to adhere to such things as hunger or sanity. That might not apply to all of them, but in instances like Magnus, who's corporal form seems to just be host for a being of raw psychic power, I don't think they are "mortal", and as such, die of malnutrition or lose their sanity to the warp. Also, they are all likely made from or have contributing factors from the warp or ruinous powers. They might therefore be immune to it. That's, at least, where I landed on all that.
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Aug 28, 2013 14:28
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TheStampede posted:Given the absolutely insane amount of punishment they can take, (Lorgar and Angron is Betrayer, Vulcan getting smoked on Istavaan, Russ and Magnus tearing each other apart on Prospero) I get the impression that they don't have to adhere to such things as hunger or sanity. That might not apply to all of them, but in instances like Magnus, who's corporal form seems to just be host for a being of raw psychic power, I don't think they are "mortal", and as such, die of malnutrition or lose their sanity to the warp. The Primarchs are very mortal and are definitely not immune to the warp. We're never going to find out what happened to the missing Primarchs but I think they're all probably dead.
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Aug 28, 2013 15:09
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Kegslayer posted:The Primarchs are very mortal and are definitely not immune to the warp. We're never going to find out what happened to the missing Primarchs but I think they're all probably dead. See, I don't really agree with that. Maybe some of them are more mortal then others, but I think Magnus and Vulkan (especially now that we know more about his nature) are very clearly NOT mortal. Plus, saying we'll never find out may be a bit bold.
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Aug 28, 2013 15:18
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