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I'm not sure but I'd imagine the nature of Alberta's economy being built on oil an gas exploration means downtown jobs aren't as in demand as the ones driving from a suburban home to stay up north for 3 weeks on 1 off. Or construction or whatever. I feel it's likely that there isn't the same premium to live and work in downtown Calgary as downtown Vancouver might have though that certainly can change.
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Aug 28, 2013 20:08
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PT6A posted:I don't entirely disagree with your premise, but at the same time it fails to account for why downtown real estate is comparatively inexpensive to these other cities. I know why Okotoks is cheap, I'm just not quite sure why the areas closer into downtown are. Like I said, they're still a little more expensive (and realistically, they always will be), but there's affordable places to be had in some pretty excellent locations. For all my/our bitching about the "BEST PLACE ON EARTH", its not thy there isn't some truth to all that. Like, people do actually want to live here (and Montreal, and Toronto). There is nothing especially sinister about these cities, especially the fashionable downtown cores, being a fair bit more expensive then less hip downtowns. It's just insane when prices get ideas far above their station, e.g. London (UK) or New York - they have no business being in that league.
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Aug 28, 2013 20:24
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Mr. Wynand posted:For all my/our bitching about the "BEST PLACE ON EARTH", its not thy there isn't some truth to all that. Like, people do actually want to live here (and Montreal, and Toronto). There is nothing especially sinister about these cities, especially the fashionable downtown cores, being a fair bit more expensive then less hip downtowns. It's just insane when prices get ideas far above their station, e.g. London (UK) or New York - they have no business being in that league. And again, many of those rankings place Calgary (and Ottawa) high up in the rankings overall, and usually in the top 5-10 cities in North America. If you can deal with the cold snaps during the winter, I would say that our winters are better than those in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal due to the low amounts of snow, high amount of sunlight, and the occasional Chinook. Calgary certainly flies further under the radar than those other cities, but arguably I would say that there's no city in Canada that's really on the same level as places like London, New York or Tokyo.
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Aug 28, 2013 21:56
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PT6A posted:arguably I would say that there's no city in Canada that's really on the same level as places like London, New York or Tokyo. It's beyond 'arguably'. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is a maple-waving buffoon, or, more likely, a BPOE fanatic.
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Aug 28, 2013 22:10
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Lexicon posted:It's beyond 'arguably'. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is a maple-waving buffoon, or, more likely, a BPOE fanatic. Yeah, I was going to include some other cities like Berlin, Paris, Sydney, HK, and maybe even San Francisco and/or LA where the distinction wouldn't be quite so drastic, but there are certainly no cities in Canada that I would consider on the level of London, NY, or Tokyo and it's really not even open for debate.
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Aug 28, 2013 22:19
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well up here in Fort McMurray I pay $1,800 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment in a building constructed in 1972. It is in a nice neighbourhood though (or at least as nice as neighbourhoods get in Fort McMurray). I was actually considering sinking $450,000 into a 2 bedroom condo unit but the advice I've received in this thread has me thinking again. It's going to suck though if there's another massive growth spurt and housing costs jump 35% in a couple of years  So yeah, I can't imagine New York or London are all that more expensive than Fort Mac. And if they are you have to consider what you receive for paying that much. Atleast there's solid reasons to want to live in those places beyond there not being any jobs available in your province of orgin.
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Aug 28, 2013 22:55
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Starsfan posted:well up here in Fort McMurray I pay $1,800 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment in a building constructed in 1972. And my cousin just moved out there to save up $15k working at McDonald's for a few months 
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Aug 28, 2013 23:35
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:And my cousin just moved out there to save up $15k working at McDonald's for a few months Yeah the Wild West nature of the energy boomtowns makes the cost of living really expensive.
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Aug 28, 2013 23:49
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:And my cousin just moved out there to save up $15k working at McDonald's for a few months well my first year up here I made about 85k gross income (I'm a municipal employee so we work 35 hours a week at the low end of the wage spectrum) and I lived in municipal transitional housing for the low low cost of $1,050 a month - which got me a bedroom and a shared bath in a house with 5 strangers. I saved up probably around 25-30k that first year so it can be done if you live on the cheap, but not if he / she pays market rent and parties. If your cousin doesn't mind living in Fort McMurray, tell them to pick up a trade and they can make some real money.
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Aug 28, 2013 23:52
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Speaking of bubbles here's a article supporting another delusional mindset that drives the real estate market: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/business/economy/as-renters-move-in-and-neighborhoods-change-homeowners-grumble.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0 Renters destroy a neighborhood, make sure you get a home loan in order to be a upstanding member of the local community. etalian fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 00:07
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etalian posted:Speaking of bubbles here's article supporting another delusional mindset that drives the real estate market: Watch those homeowners poo poo themselves with rage over the idea of co-operative housing, too.
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Aug 29, 2013 00:09
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Man there's got to be a system were housing can be rented yet the renters feel a sense of ownership and have a reason to improve and maintain the property. Some sort of lease with owner-like rights? I rent a suite in a house in a pretty nice neighbourhood (most houses are 700-1m) but you can ALWAYS tell the rental houses because they'll have the dead or overgrown front yard littered with beer cans and old bikes and poo poo. It will be the house that hasn't been painted in 2 decades. It will be the house with the loud drunken parties. It will be the house the police are at. I understand the mindset, why take care of the house? You're already throwing away your money renting it, why maintain someone else's property? So they can kick you out and raise the rent? There's absolutely no sense of ownership or connection with the place so quite often they don't even mow or take care of the yard/garden. The couple houses that are rentals and look nice have actual paid gardeners that come every week or so. I understand the mindset from the owners perspective too. Your amazing investment property is paying the mortgage and maybe a little more, but that all goes out the window if you include crazy unfair poo poo like "basic upkeep". If the tenants aren't taking legal action against you, it ain't broken. And this all once again ties back into the bubble. Most people hate renting and renters. Rental house in your neighbourhood means unkempt lawns and "strangers". Rental in your condo means the sofa in your lobby is going for a walk. It's drilled into us that the only people who rent are people too poor to buy, so it's also a class thing. A lot of people past their 30's are embarrassed to rent. If you're married and have KIDS you just have to own. Kids can't be brought up in a rental! Rentals are for students and service workers. Basically the current system and culture is loving everyone except the people issuing CMHA backed mortgages. Personally I'd love to rent but after a month of looking I can't find anything that meets my space and price needs. There's a real "missing middle" in terms of rentals. It's all lovely shared laundry 60's apartments or extremely expensive brand new condos or entire houses. I'd be happy paying like 1200-1300 a month for a 1500 sqft apartment or section of a house or what ever with private laundry (or at least free but shared between only a couple other units) and some sort of lease or something that makes me not worry about getting evicted a couple years later because the owner decided they're converting to condos or their "investment" didn't pan out so they're selling. I guess I've said it before but I'd love to see a system of city/region/province owned housing of all types that are leased/rented to people long term at reasonable rates and the profit going into maintaining and expanding the system. And also some sort of "improvements board" or something that not only allows but encourages/rewards the occupants for improvements and upkeep. Keep basic care of your property? Great, you can opt out of the gardening service like most people do. Want to upgrade the insulation in the garage so you can use it as a workshop in the winter? You'd get approval and then get the work inspected and they'd subtrack a portion of the improvement from your rent or give you some sort of credit. You could even pass your lease down to family, who would pay a new fair rate so now 4th generation houses renting for $400 a month or something insane and system-breaking. No more housing bubbles, no more bank bail-outs, good reliable housing for everyone with the safety of renting but the sense of ownership of owning.
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Aug 29, 2013 00:48
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Baronjutter posted:Man there's got to be a system were housing can be rented yet the renters feel a sense of ownership and have a reason to improve and maintain the property. Some sort of lease with owner-like rights? There already is with something called the Vienna model for affordable housing, even though it's hardly something that could be applied for other cities. It pretty much only works because the city has a property monopoly and also gets a good federal subsidy to keep the housing costs low.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:08
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So have the government say gently caress you to the banks, crash the housing market, then scoop the whole thing up on the cheap. 3 simple steps to solve the housing crisis, realtors HATE him.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:29
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Baronjutter posted:So have the government say gently caress you to the banks, crash the housing market, then scoop the whole thing up on the cheap. 3 simple steps to solve the housing crisis, realtors HATE him. To answer your specific questions the Vienna model does allow owner like rights such as tenants being able to remodel their home and also allows relatives such as children to inherit the lease from their parents.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:37
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Having private landlords that live locally to the places they rent out is a good start. Very nearby or even next to is ideal but then again there are many people that think that you are allowed to attempt to micromanage the hell out of your tenants.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:47
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Talk me out of this bullshit. We've been having problems with our rented apartment for a while. Our building was impacted with the Calgary flood and our parking wont be ready until like Mid October - November. We got some loving annoying mechanical vibrations coming from pipes and our neighbours across the hall have a newborn that spends more time crying than not crying. My landlord wont reduce my rent for failure to provide services spelled out on the lease (parking, storage) but will let me break the lease when I want. This poo poo place is making me really want to look at houses, I keep justifying to myself I'll buy within my budget and ride out the "crash" with a 7 to 10 year fixed term mortgage at like 4% (I already have 3 or 4 brokers lined up willing to cut me that rate). VVV I'm one of the lucky people with a defined benefit retirement plan. Spreadsheet is being made. Oh god... apatheticman fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 03:08
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The first thing to do is to figure out how many % of your family income will be drained into real estate. Then, after insurance, maintenance, utilities, retirement planning, your child's future education, decide if you will be happy with the amount of disposable income left over. For the love of god, think very very very hard about how much money you want to save for retirement. Use a spreadsheet.
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Aug 29, 2013 03:22
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etalian posted:To answer your specific questions the Vienna model does allow owner like rights such as tenants being able to remodel their home and also allows relatives such as children to inherit the lease from their parents. Is there some law in Canada that makes remodelling rental properties or children inheriting leases illegal?
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Aug 29, 2013 03:23
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I was going to include some other cities like Berlin, Paris, Sydney, HK, and maybe even San Francisco and/or LA where the distinction wouldn't be quite so drastic, but there are certainly no cities in Canada that I would consider on the level of London, NY, or Tokyo and it's really not even open for debate. Baronjutter posted:Man there's got to be a system were housing can be rented yet the renters feel a sense of ownership and have a reason to improve and maintain the property. Some sort of lease with owner-like rights?  I mean if you know your ten year ROI on purchasing a house will only be 10% at best, then maybe you'll view it more as a 'pride of ownership' thing, and less of a magical silver bullet investment vehicle. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 03:49
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 indeed https://twitter.com/BenRabidoux/status/372878705648873473/photo/1
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Aug 29, 2013 04:43
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From the Sun.quote:New reports on housing affordability and household debt across Canada tell a particularly scary story in B.C. http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/housing+market+unaffordable+debt+rising+What+surprise/8844443/story.html
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Aug 29, 2013 04:46
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What does a graph like that mean? I'm not very graph litterate and don't know much about the housing market besides what is being said in this thread.
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Aug 29, 2013 06:36
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The key on the left is the number of condos for sale in montreal. From left to right, each individual line shows the number of condos available for sale over the months of the year. Each differently coloured line represents a different year. The black incomplete line is for 2013. It shows us that montreal condo supply is blowing the gently caress up
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Aug 29, 2013 06:42
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Odddzy posted:What does a graph like that mean? I'm not very graph litterate and don't know much about the housing market besides what is being said in this thread. It means there is an absolute fuckload of supply, each of the lines is tracking supply of condos on the market across a different year, the dotted one is this year so far. Prices should be falling with such a huge number of sellers, but they are not. It's gonna be fun stuff when people start dropping their prices to move that inventory and everyone else follows suit to try to get as high a price as they can before prices drop further. *pop*
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Aug 29, 2013 06:46
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Cultural Imperial posted:The black incomplete line is for 2013. It shows us that montreal condo supply is blowing the gently caress up Not only that, but this problem has been coming for a while. 2011 and 2012 were also record years in terms of listing.
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Aug 29, 2013 06:53
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Whiteycar posted:Talk me out of this bullshit. Honestly, the rental market in Calgary right now is so hosed that, even if a housing bubble exists, it may well be easier to ride that out than the current rent bubble. As long as you take into the account that the value of your property isn't guaranteed to increase, and you will have to pay for maintenance on it, I think there's a reasonable argument to be made for buying vs. renting in the current market in this city. Outside of a few specific areas, the market isn't massively overheated. Could you lose some money, depending on what happens? Yes. That's the inherent risk in home ownership. Given rents in Calgary right now, though, I'd probably take a loss of property value rather than throwing money into the incinerator as renting would represent at this point. If the property market is inflated here, it's absolutely nothing compared to how inflated the rental market is at this moment. Price-to-rent ratio is still very low compared to other cities, especially so since the flood.
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Aug 29, 2013 06:59
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posting this for the data point. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/rising-mortgages-the-phantom-menace-of-canadian-consumer-debt/article14017227/ quote:Rising mortgages: The phantom menace of Canadian consumer debt
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Aug 29, 2013 15:11
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PT6A posted:Could you lose some money, depending on what happens? Yes. That's the inherent risk in home ownership. Given rents in Calgary right now, though, I'd probably take a loss of property value rather than throwing money into the incinerator as renting would represent at this point. If the property market is inflated here, it's absolutely nothing compared to how inflated the rental market is at this moment. Price-to-rent ratio is still very low compared to other cities, especially so since the flood. People seem to forget unless you do do lower term loan you are throwing money into the interest payment incinerator for the first years of a home mortgage.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:24
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etalian posted:People seem to forget unless you do do lower term loan you are throwing money into the interest payment incinerator for the first years of a home mortgage. Not to mention, the incinerator of transaction costs. It boggles my mind that society has decided it's acceptable to forgo the equivalent of 2 years rental payments to a cartel of slicked-hair, 6-week course hucksters every time you sell a property.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:27
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Lexicon posted:Not to mention, the incinerator of transaction costs. It boggles my mind that society has decided it's acceptable to forgo the equivalent of 2 years rental payments to a cartel of slicked-hair, 6-week course hucksters every time you sell a property. Example: A house is worth about $350,000, with minimum 10% down payment and average current interest you're paying $19,000 a year, maybe $1500 worth of property taxes and on average $1000 a year on maintenance. A house thats worth the exact same amount right beside it, is renting for $2000 per month no utilities. You can make up that real estate fee in 2 years most likely, and as long as the market stays equal, which we'll assume for this example you're ahead. This is an actual situation right now by the way, and somebody offered the landlord a years worth of rent up front. Thats how crazy the rental market in Calgary is right now.
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Aug 29, 2013 16:50
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Binton posted:True, although the rental market in Calgary right now is so heated that its feasible to break even or even be ahead in a couple of years assuming a stable market if you buy vs rent. I haven't spreadsheeted that scenario or anything... but renting is still more attractive to me unless you're intending to stay there for quite a while. The sales commission is potentially $15k to $20k... which is admittedly much less than 2 years rent, but still.
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Aug 29, 2013 17:26
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Lexicon posted:I haven't spreadsheeted that scenario or anything... but renting is still more attractive to me unless you're intending to stay there for quite a while. The sales commission is potentially $15k to $20k... which is admittedly much less than 2 years rent, but still.
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Aug 29, 2013 17:41
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Binton posted:Ah I guess, I always thought real estate fees were about 5 or 6k on a house like that. I just looked around I guess they're on average 7% on the first 100,000 and 3% on the remaining. So thats about 15k, so yeah you'd have to stay for a few years. Once you add up all the other hard expenses of ownership you're looking at a minimum stay of anywhere from five to ten years just to recoup those costs, nevermind all the other benefits of renting.
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Aug 29, 2013 17:48
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Binton posted:Ah I guess, I always thought real estate fees were about 5 or 6k on a house like that. I just looked around I guess they're on average 7% on the first 100,000 and 3% on the remaining. So thats about 15k, so yeah you'd have to stay for a few years. Yeah, it's super expensive. Like I said - I'm not sure why we've collectively decided this is acceptable.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:03
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Lexicon posted:Not to mention, the incinerator of transaction costs. It boggles my mind that society has decided it's acceptable to forgo the equivalent of 2 years rental payments to a cartel of slicked-hair, 6-week course hucksters every time you sell a property. There's a good reason why those pricks always drive around a Lexus or Mercedes plus always try to sell people on myths such as the market can only go up or owning a home is a important life milestone like getting marrried.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:20
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Lexicon posted:Yeah, it's super expensive. Like I said - I'm not sure why we've collectively decided this is acceptable. Because it wasn't a collective choice, we don't have a democratic economy. It's imposed and controlled by a small number of people and given legitimacy by hand-waving it all away as "the market".
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Aug 29, 2013 18:21
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If you're going to complain about high realtor's fees, get busy writing to your MP to wrest control of the MLS from the CREA.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:25
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Cultural Imperial posted:If you're going to complain about high realtor's fees, get busy writing to your MP to wrest control of the MLS from the CREA. Good loving luck, realtors probably donate more money to politicians of every ilk than any other 'professional' association in Canada.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:28
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Baronjutter posted:Because it wasn't a collective choice, we don't have a democratic economy. It's imposed and controlled by a small number of people and given legitimacy by hand-waving it all away as "the market". There are many occasions one might complain about 'the market' but this isn't it. This is a cartel with legally enforced barriers to entry. It's... the opposite of the market.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:30
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