A return of Fascism in Europe?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > A return of Fascism in Europe?

poidinger: Jan 14, 2008; IGNORE ME

kind of a derail so I'll stop after this one:

SirKibbles posted:

I really feel like that it doesn't count until they pull together the all of the ethnic groups in the German state under the German flag. There really wasn't a national identity in terms of being German the various ethnic groups in Germany weren't really unified under a national German identity for all that long and that's super important for fascism.

There actually was for quite some time prior to 1871, in the fighting between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the North German Confederation (to determine a Grossdeutsches Reich which the Austrians favored, and, ironically, the Austrian Adolf Hitler later implemented after gaining control of the Prussian-backed Kleindeutsches Reich that actually won the historical "argument"), and before that Austro-Prussian wars revolved around conceptions of "Germanness" and domination of the German peoples and even before that the Thirty Years War of Protestantism vs Catholicism (The Church of Rome, mind you) taking place primarily within the borders of Germany was also, in part, a war to determine what the Actual Religion of the "German Peoples" would be. Even the HRE was an administrative alliance of the Germanic peoples, and they saw it as such. You can even make the argument that the Regnum Teutonicum/Germaniae (Kingdom of Teutons and later "Germany") that emerged from the Carolingian Empire would be the first emergence of a sort of Ur-Germanic "nationalism." "Germany" itself comes from the (incorrect) Roman designation of all the tribes living in the province north of the Danube, east of the Rhine as "Germania," populated by the supposedly monolithic Germani people. This designation caught on after the Roman Conquests and basically stuck

Most clearly (and I am partially to blame here for going "here, here is Nation X's emergence!") you can at least point to the 1800s Napoleonic "Confederation of the Rhine" and the death of the HRE in 1806 for the start of "modern" German unified nationalism that we can recognize that later formed the core of the 1848 revolutionary movement, giving at least over a century of nationalism tied to a single specific ethnic group to percolate (if we're not being generous and allowing several centuries all the way back to the ashes of the Frankish Empire in the 9th century CE or earlier).

quote:

I don't just mean the business plot ,I mean that the rich really liked the fascists because they'd not only kick the poo poo out of leftists and anyone trying to organize against Capital but they really hit a nerve with all of the imperialists in the states with their worship of war and conquest.

One could argue that they then (foolishly) thought they could use nascent fascism as a tool to attack their enemies, not that it was a "popular" ideology held by them, i.e. that they were fascists themselves. I'm sure they were pretty scared of the Nazi parties prior to their "selling out" to the interests of German capital and elimination of the more left-wing strains of their organization.

quote:

The US differs from Europe in that it doesn't have that relationship with the Church and culturally it's severed itself from the crown so if it went fascist it'd be treading new territory, I'd expect alot of military worship the church would play a major role but I feel it'd be more subservient to the military compared to fascists in latin america or Franco.

The US was lacking in a crown or a unified church but you can just as easily use the military and the US is literally built on conquest and slavery,we haven't not been at war for I think at the most 10 years,it's a fascists wet dream. You don't have to use Rome it's really loving helpful but not necessarily when your own nation is building it's own brand new empire just fine.

Yes, precisely my point -- the divided religions & ethnicities (even, and especially within the military), long history of some sort or another of democratic practices (with the Germans not so much), lack of long-running and strong connection to Rome, lack of revanchist sentiments, etc. is what makes any sort of US fascism a much smaller and much different phenomenon than European fascism.. albeit again, the equation of US Empire behavior to Rome and the use of some of its symbols is what generates some of these interesting parallels

poidinger fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Aug 16, 2013

# ? Aug 16, 2013 05:06

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:52

KoldPT: Oct 9, 2012

So, that PNR party I talked about in my last post... They're around again!

Basically, the city of Braga - notable for being the religious 'capital' of Portugal, the city of Archbishops - erected a statue to dead priest Melo. Who was that guy? Well, just a Salazar collaborator who, after the revolution, was the most influential catholic priest in the country. He was (~allegedly~) responsible for bombing a communist party HQ and murdering via carbomb a leftist priest, Maximino de Sousa, or Padre Max.

Guess what happened after the statue showed up? That's right, the citizens of braga painted it blue (the color of the censorship pencils in the Estado Novo regime) and graffiti'd the statue with words like "Fascist" and "Murderer".

PNR offered to clean the statue for free. :shepface:

# ? Aug 16, 2013 16:10

ReV VAdAUL: Oct 3, 2004; I'm WILD about
WILDMAN

poidinger posted:

Watched a German documentary some years ago on Nazism as Artistic Vision or something to that effect (that I absolutely cannot remember the actual title of) that claimed that the Nazi contribution to prepping and launching the Second World War was the goal of returning Europe to Rome-inspired romanticized "unifying violence/barbarity," something something, Hitler's preferred grotesque Greek/Roman-inspired architecture being designed with how it would look thousands of years into the future as ruins a la the Parthenon or Colosseum, the use of the Roman salute, the repeating Eagle motif, with a distinctly local Germanic twist with the Nordic/Aryan, Nietzsche/Wagner flavoring etc. etc.

While Jonathan Meades is not a great person this is a pretty good and amusing look at Nazi architecture and their desire to hark back to various idealised pasts. It is interesting that the Nazi desire to return to rurality (cities are wicked places in much right wing thought) didn't get that much attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTfbBvIEbfA

# ? Aug 17, 2013 14:43

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

ReV VAdAUL posted:

While Jonathan Meades is not a great person this is a pretty good and amusing look at Nazi architecture and their desire to hark back to various idealised pasts. It is interesting that the Nazi desire to return to rurality (cities are wicked places in much right wing thought) didn't get that much attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTfbBvIEbfA

If the topic interests you, the book Ecofascism: lessons from the German experience will be of interest to you.

# ? Aug 17, 2013 15:22

ReV VAdAUL: Oct 3, 2004; I'm WILD about
WILDMAN

Thank you I'll give that a look.

# ? Aug 17, 2013 16:16

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Install Windows posted:

Yeah to be clear I'm not saying "fundamentalist" Christianity is fascist, just that it comes out of the same quite modern concepts while claiming to reject modern things as corrupt.

I wouldn't say fundamentalist Christianity is fascist, but American-style fascism has adapted itself to American culture by using fundamentalist Christianity has a mobilizing force. Take a look at Gerald L. K. Smith's Christian Nationalist Crusade. He's responsible for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_the_Ozarks

And he built a Christian theme park in the area which I think has either closed in recent years or been on life support.

Another way of thinking about fascism is that it shares with fundamentalist Christianity "a deeper impulse, namely the drive to formulate a new social order capable of redeeming humanity from the growing chaos and crisis resulting from modernity�s devastation of traditional securities."

quote:

Seen in this way a major paradox lies at the heart of modernism: its emotional wellspring is not modern. Rather it lies in a primordial human drive to erect what sociologist Peter Berger called �a sacred canopy� to act as a shield against the terror of the void of chaos and death. Modernity, by tearing holes in that canopy, by threatening the cohesion of traditional culture and its capacity to absorb change, triggers an instinctive self-defensive reflex to repair it by reasserting �eternal� values and truths that transcend the ephemerality of individual existence. If the canopy is damaged beyond repair the conditions are created for what is known to anthropologists as a �revitalisation movement� that seeks to erect an entire new canopy, a new metaphysical sky to make the world anew.

From this perspective modernism is a radical reaction against modernity. At its most programmatic and utopian, it is a bid to stem the tide of �decadence� by constructing an alternative modernity on the other side of contemporary society�s structural and moral self-destruction. It is against this background that racist variants of nationalism emerged. These sought to revitalise a decaying society by reconnecting modern citizens with their history, their culture, their ethnic roots and the soil, not in an anti-modern spirit but in order to establish a new future.

http://rationalist.org.uk/articles/1415/springtime-for-hitler

# ? Aug 17, 2013 18:51

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

poidinger posted:

There actually was for quite some time prior to 1871, in the fighting between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the North German Confederation (to determine a Grossdeutsches Reich which the Austrians favored, and, ironically, the Austrian Adolf Hitler later implemented after gaining control of the Prussian-backed Kleindeutsches Reich that actually won the historical "argument"), and before that Austro-Prussian wars revolved around conceptions of "Germanness" and domination of the German peoples and even before that the Thirty Years War of Protestantism vs Catholicism (The Church of Rome, mind you) taking place primarily within the borders of Germany was also, in part, a war to determine what the Actual Religion of the "German Peoples" would be. Even the HRE was an administrative alliance of the Germanic peoples, and they saw it as such. You can even make the argument that the Regnum Teutonicum/Germaniae (Kingdom of Teutons and later "Germany") that emerged from the Carolingian Empire would be the first emergence of a sort of Ur-Germanic "nationalism." "Germany" itself comes from the (incorrect) Roman designation of all the tribes living in the province north of the Danube, east of the Rhine as "Germania," populated by the supposedly monolithic Germani people. This designation caught on after the Roman Conquests and basically stuck

I agree with your overall point, but please distinguish between Germanic and German, the two have distinct meanings and it muddles the point to confuse them. Germanic is a much wider term, and the distinction between it and German would arguably be the beginning of Ur-German "nationalism", when the people who would be known as German saw themselves as distinct from for example their North Germanic neighbors, but connected with the subdivisions within the "German nation". Something that in the case of Denmark only really came in 1864, when we were rudely made aware of the fact that the Germans didn't like us as much as we had thought, despite the Danish state being about a thousand years old by that point. Actually, the fact that a lot of European national identities are rather recent as more than just vague ideas of being German/Danish/Italian/French, makes me wonder where things are going to go in the future. It seems premature in a way to assume that we're at the end of history, and the current nations of the world are the final evolution of our collective identities.

Hell, the meaning of Germanic and German might become even more muddled in the future, if they keep up the whole South = Bad, North = Good rhetoric.

# ? Aug 18, 2013 22:18

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

For those who keep saying The Golden Dawn symbol is straight from Nazis, That symbol existed for thousands of years before Germany and is older than The Star of David. The Golden Dawn might used it because the Nazies but you cant say for sure. Unless they said it themselves in which I would be wrong. Also question why is it wrong to be proud of ones cultures history and survival past the Neanthrdrils (or however you spell it) because one group took it to the extreme?

Also the drat Greeks should remember a Foreigner made them a power state instead of city states and believed mixing breeds or humans. Which is why Northern India has greek/Macedonian mix.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Aug 30, 2013 21:08

ashgromnies: Jun 19, 2004

darthzeta88 posted:

Also question why is it wrong to be proud of ones cultures history and survival past the Neanthrdrils (or however you spell it) because one group took it to the extreme?

President Obama: "You didn't build that."

Have pride in what you yourself accomplish.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 21:20

KoldPT: Oct 9, 2012

As I said earlier, we have the best loving fascists :allears:

(If you can read portuguese, please enjoy this exchange on one of the guys' facebooks: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=383114325059137&set=a.143946068975965.16204.100000817183550&type=1&theater)

For maximum irony points, the word they use there, saloio - an equivalent of redneck, roughly - comes from the word Salah, and refers to the muslims who remained in Portugal after the Reconquista.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 21:26

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

ashgromnies posted:

President Obama: "You didn't build that."

Have pride in what you yourself accomplish.

I do have pride in what I do and who I am. But lots of people tell me I owe them due to my ancestors and I am like... Really? Tell me more.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 21:34

Soviet Commubot: Oct 22, 2008

KoldPT posted:

As I said earlier, we have the best loving fascists

(If you can read portuguese, please enjoy this exchange one of the guys' facebooks: [url]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=383114325059137&set=a.143946068975965.16204.100000817183[550&type=1&theater[/url])

For maximum irony points, the word they use there, saloio - an equivalent of redneck, roughly - comes from the word Salah, and refers to the muslims who remained in Portugal after the Reconquista.

This kid will never not be the most hilarious fascist to me. He's from my town and only got less than a percent of the vote. Not only is he goony and :smug:

as gently caress his last name is pretty hilarious for being a Breton nationalist. Anjou is not in Brittany

On a more serious note, I'm pretty worried the FN will make a strong showing in this spring's municipal elections in France. They'd never get any seats in my town or anything but with every election cycle they aren't crushed everywhere they lose a bit of the stigma they've always had and eventually I'm certain the UMP will break the the cordon sanitaire in order to keep themselves from being squeezed out by a growing FN and a rightward drifting PS.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 22:06

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

darthzeta88 posted:

The Golden Dawn might used it because the Nazies but you cant say for sure.

Pretty sure I can.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 22:32

Ostiosis: Nov 3, 2002

DynamicSloth posted:

Pretty sure I can.

He's got an "88" is his name so heads up.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 22:44

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Unluckyimmortal posted:

The thing is, speech actually can't cause as much harm as physical violence. That's just a silly claim, really, it's the difference between a Klan rally and a lynching. One is terrifying and depressing, the other leaves at least one person dead, by definition. Moreover, we already have laws in place that can be brought to bear against a targeted harassment campaign.

Yeah, there are certain types of violence that cause more harm than any type of speech, but this doesn't really imply that violence in general is inherently more harmful than speech. Certain types of violence are less harmful or just as harmful as certain forms of speech. Even though blatant racism - like the kind you see in Klan rallies - has mostly disappeared in the US, more subtle forms of racism flourish and continue to cause untold amounts of harm.

Anyways, as I also mentioned in my post, I'm not saying that I necessarily think that more strict speech laws would be helpful (in the US at least). I just think that the (extremely common) ideological view that freedom of expression is always a Good Thing and violence is always bad is completely unjustified and wrong.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 22:49

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

DynamicSloth posted:

Pretty sure I can.

That salute Is older than Germany is. Hitler thought the roman salute is bad rear end. I kinda agree and wish he never used it. Also Americans use to say the pledge with that same salute before ww2.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:09

LP97S: Apr 25, 2008

Hey I heard that killing Jews and Roma predates the Nazis so we should totally not associate Neo-Nazis with Nazis.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:12

SplitSoul: Dec 31, 2000

darthzeta88 posted:

That salute Is older than Germany is. Hitler thought the roman salute is bad rear end. I kinda agree and wish he never used it. Also Americans use to say the pledge with that same salute before ww2.

It is pretty universally identified with neo-nazism these days, though.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:13

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

darthzeta88 posted:

For those who keep saying The Golden Dawn symbol is straight from Nazis, That symbol existed for thousands of years before Germany and is older than The Star of David. The Golden Dawn might used it because the Nazies but you cant say for sure.

Did this "ancient symbol" just happen to use the same nazi red background with a black symbol in a white outline for thousands of years too? :rolleyes:

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:17

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

Rutibex posted:

Did this "ancient symbol" just happen to use the same nazi red background with a black symbol in a white outline for thousands of years too?

True the red backgroud is pretty nazi related. I mean I am sure they are racist and Nazi type but I just think people saying this symbol and that is bad just cause a group used it. I just kinda try to argue that even though I suck at arguments.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:23

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

darthzeta88 posted:

That salute Is older than Germany is. Hitler thought the roman salute is bad rear end. I kinda agree and wish he never used it. Also Americans use to say the pledge with that same salute before ww2.

Oh sorry you couldn't tell that photo was actually taken many years AFTER World War II when anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows what a Nazi salute is.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:25

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

darthzeta88 posted:

True the red backgroud is pretty nazi related. I mean I am sure they are racist and Nazi type but I just think people saying this symbol and that is bad just cause a group used it. I just kinda try to argue that even though I suck at arguments.

And similarly, I assume your use of 88 in your username is totally innocent?

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:25

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

darthzeta88 posted:

That salute Is older than Germany is. Hitler thought the roman salute is bad rear end. I kinda agree and wish he never used it. Also Americans use to say the pledge with that same salute before ww2.

Fun fact: the "Roman salute" has absolutely no basis in Roman practice, it's lifted from a neoclassical painting called Oath of the Horatii.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:30

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

Darth Walrus posted:

And similarly, I assume your use of 88 in your username is totally innocent?

Is there an 88 thing I should know about? It is the year of the dragon and birthyear.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:31

get that OUT of my face: Feb 10, 2007

Russia's anti-gay hysteria is reaching some scary heights.

quote:

The Russian government's new law condemning so-called gay propaganda has now encouraged people to report their LGBT neighbors to local authorities.

A notice allegedly from the government says any person who suspects that a neighbor or tenant disseminates "homosexual propaganda" should contact the police immediately, Gay Star News and O-Blog-Dee-O-Blog-Da report.

"Increase your vigilance when you talk to your neighbors, when you are checking your mail and in elevators," the notice says, according to a translation. "You can easily become a target of homosexual propaganda. There is one step from being homosexual and to start propaganda of homosexualism and molesting decent people."

Russian prosecutors reportedly raided the home of activist and lawyer Nikolai Alexeyev. According to Reuters, officials ransacked Alexeyev's home and removed several pieces of electronic equipment.

"Do you think this is all legal?" Alexeyev said to reporters inside his apartment after the raid. "What if they now start raiding flats every day, for instance?

The raid was spurred by a Russian parliament member who lodged a complaint against Alexeyev.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:31

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

darthzeta88 posted:

Is there an 88 thing I should know about? It is the year of the dragon and birthyear.

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but Neo Nazis use 88 as a stand in for HH or 'Heil Hitler'.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:42

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

The Nozzle posted:

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, but Neo Nazis use 88 as a stand in for HH or 'Heil Hitler'.

Did not know that. Half my family is from hong kong and I travelled the world a few times around. Literally. So I kinda consider myself culturally diverse. It is my Birth year as I turn 25 this year.

And holy poo poo Russia is going crazy. We have a possibility of going to war with them and China in the next few months. Literally.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:50

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

darthzeta88 posted:

We have a possibility of going to war with them and China in the next few months. Literally.

...what? No we don't. There is pretty much a zero percent chance of the US going to war with a major world power. The one good thing to come from global capitalism is that a war between great powers would cause far more harm than good to multinational corporations.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:54

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

Ytlaya posted:

...what? No we don't. There is pretty much a zero percent chance of the US going to war with a major world power. The one good thing to come from global capitalism is that a war between great powers would cause far more harm than good to multinational corporations.

Well then we would have to break a few treaties with Japan than and our word. Which is possible. Murica.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:56

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

darthzeta88 posted:

Well then we would have to break a few treaties with Japan than and our word. Which is possible. Murica.

I have no clue if you're a troll or just unhinged. There is zero chance of a war with China in the short or medium term.

# ? Aug 30, 2013 23:59

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

rkajdi posted:

I have no clue if you're a troll or just unhinged. There is zero chance of a war with China in the short or medium term.

Read the news. We are even putting temporary troops in the Philippines. China is sending warship patrals and claims to Japanese islands that are in old treaties saying they are Japanese. Japan is currently trying to change their constitution to allow a standing army. We are also obliged to defend Japan in Wars and invasions. And since USA said these islands are Japanese and China is sending warships in to claim as Chinese this is an Invasion. Japan is trying to talk it out with China and China is just saying no you dont Japan. Its not mainstream because of the Syria conflict that Iran and Russia are prepared to defend against Military intvention like bombing.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 00:06

rkajdi: Sep 11, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

darthzeta88 posted:

Read the news. We are even putting temporary troops in the Philippines. China is sending warship patrals and claims to Japanese islands that are in old treaties saying they are Japanese. Japan is currently trying to change their constitution to allow a standing army. We are also obliged to defend Japan in Wars and invasions. And since USA said these islands are Japanese and China is sending warships in to claim as Chinese this is an Invasion. Japan is trying to talk it out with China and China is just saying no you dont Japan. Its not mainstream because of the Syria conflict that Iran and Russia are prepared to defend against Military intvention like bombing.

Unhinged it is then. This conflict is not going to go hot, and all things now look like the US is going to blink on Syria since we'd be going in alone, and Russia is in no way going to start a hot war over this. A war with China would instantly put a gun to the heads of both the US and Chinese economies, and both nations are acutely aware of it.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 00:13

darthzeta88: May 31, 2013; by Pragmatica

rkajdi posted:

Unhinged it is then. This conflict is not going to go hot, and all things now look like the US is going to blink on Syria since we'd be going in alone, and Russia is in no way going to start a hot war over this. A war with China would instantly put a gun to the heads of both the US and Chinese economies, and both nations are acutely aware of it.

France is in so we wont go in alone. And we China is kinda territorial. So I honestly do not know if we will wage or not. But I am stocking on supplies like food and water just to be safe.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 00:16

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

darthzeta88 posted:

France is in so we wont go in alone. And we China is kinda territorial. So I honestly do not know if we will wage or not. But I am stocking on supplies like food and water just to be safe.

What, exactly, do you see as sparking a war?

# ? Aug 31, 2013 01:18

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

darthzeta88 posted:

Read the news. We are even putting temporary troops in the Philippines. China is sending warship patrals and claims to Japanese islands that are in old treaties saying they are Japanese. Japan is currently trying to change their constitution to allow a standing army. We are also obliged to defend Japan in Wars and invasions. And since USA said these islands are Japanese and China is sending warships in to claim as Chinese this is an Invasion. Japan is trying to talk it out with China and China is just saying no you dont Japan. Its not mainstream because of the Syria conflict that Iran and Russia are prepared to defend against Military intvention like bombing.

The minute anything stops the trade between China and the US is when China's economy collapses in on itself.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 01:35

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

Wasn't the Magna Carta the first written constitution?

Ahem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrican_articles

# ? Aug 31, 2013 02:03

worse than bronies: Aug 28, 2013; by Y Kant Ozma Post

computer parts posted:

The minute anything stops the trade between China and the US is when China's economy collapses in on itself.

What does china need to buy?

# ? Aug 31, 2013 02:06

Job Truniht: Nov 7, 2012; MY POSTS ARE REAL RETARDED, SIR

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Ahem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrican_articles

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tables

Beaten by 1000 years.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 02:06

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

worse than bronies posted:

What does china need to buy?

Not as much as they need to sell.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 02:16

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:52

worse than bronies: Aug 28, 2013; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Pope Guilty posted:

Not as much as they need to sell.

No, I don't think you understand my point. China needs to sell... why? To get money. Okay, what are they going to do with the money? Eat it?

What I'm asking is if the actual necessities (food, raw materials) come from inside or not. If they do, then they won't give a poo poo about western trade, they'll have everything they need without it.

If they don't, which is what I'm asking, then they'd care.

# ? Aug 31, 2013 02:39

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