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I knew it. Let me guess, with a halogen bulb too, like 75W?
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Aug 27, 2013 21:56
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It was a regular 60w bulb, and it turned out that was the problem. Did not realize those cans got that hot.
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Aug 28, 2013 03:25
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llamaperl2 posted:It was a regular 60w bulb, and it turned out that was the problem. Did not realize those cans got that hot. Home Depot has at least two nice LED screw-in replacements for those indoor floods. They're both under 9watts and generate very little heat. My house is mostly lit by those cans and I love not getting cooked anymore. eddiewalker fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 03:31
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They also have one that claims to be a 6" can replacement, but can also be used as a surface mount light in a 4" box. It's the one they carry that obviously looks like surface mount. It's this one. Don't get that one, the mounting on that one is a pain in the rear end for some reason. Bright as poo poo, but I've had the worst time getting them to stay in Halo 6" cans. Unfortunately I bought enough that I'm kind of stuck with them, at least in the kitchen (4 out of 6 cans have them, I'll swap the remaining 2 eventually). There's another 4 cans in the living room that'll get a different style (partly because that ceiling is so high that I pretty much need scaffolding to comfortably get to the fixtures). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 28, 2013 |
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Aug 28, 2013 08:18
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I have a bit of a weird rear end electrical issue. I have asked an electrician to come in and paid him $90 to open all the sockets and check the arc fault breaker itself then tell me he has no idea what's going on, so I'm hoping to get a bit of advice on either finding another electrician or some idea on what the problem is really. We have an arc-fault breaker for the entirety of our bedroom/closet/master bathroom lights (GFCI in the bathroom is on a separate circuit). Scarily, our fire alarms are also on this breaker. The same thing has happened twice now where over a period of 4-5 days, more and more things will trip the circuit breaker. First, it is always the ceiling fan/light. Then any of the light switches in the room/bathroom (outlets still work fine with no effect). Then the circuit breaker just pops immediately after resetting it, even with nothing plugged into the outlets. After a few days, everything goes back to normal. We're really at a loss and I'm hesitant about finding an electrician that will actually be able to accurately diagnose the situation. Part of me is wondering if I should try and pick up a hybrid breaker to eliminate the chance that it's just static electricity.
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Aug 30, 2013 12:58
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Rurutia posted:I have a bit of a weird rear end electrical issue. I have asked an electrician to come in and paid him $90 to open all the sockets and check the arc fault breaker itself then tell me he has no idea what's going on, so I'm hoping to get a bit of advice on either finding another electrician or some idea on what the problem is really. Sounds like the breaker is failing. If it's relatively new, send it in for warranty testing. If it's more than 3-5 years old, get a new one. Also, make sure you test all your GFCI/AFCI breakers once a month, as per the instructions in the panel.
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Aug 30, 2013 13:55
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Rurutia posted:I have a bit of a weird rear end electrical issue. I have asked an electrician to come in and paid him $90 to open all the sockets and check the arc fault breaker itself then tell me he has no idea what's going on, so I'm hoping to get a bit of advice on either finding another electrician or some idea on what the problem is really. Smoke alarms are supposed to be on a breaker that's attached to lights so you can tell when it trips. They're also required to have battery back-up, and battery-powered smoke alarms will run for years on those batteries, so it's not THAT big a deal from a safety standpoint. If you don't have battery-back-up smoke alarms, you've got the wrong kind and should replace them. grover fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 14:27
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grover posted:They're also required to have battery back-up, and battery-powered smoke alarms will run for years on those batteries, so it's not THAT big a deal from a safety standpoint. Yep, they recommend you replace the battery on the battery backup smoke detectors at least once a year. I've let one go for years without replacing the battery to see how long it would be until the battery was low enough where I got the low battery notification (It's a spare bedroom with nothing in it and there's a smoke detector right outside of it in the hallway). The battery lasted 4 years before I started getting the chirping that notifies you that battery replacement is needed. I'd still replace them at least once a year to be safe.
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Aug 30, 2013 14:57
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grover posted:Some dude claiming to be an electrician but working for a tiny % of what an actual electrician would charge may not be able to. grover posted:The easiest first step is to swap AFCI breakers with another AFCI circuit in the panel- if the new breaker trips, the problem is on the circuit. If the problem occurs to the other circuit, you need a new breaker. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Sounds like the breaker is failing. If it's relatively new, send it in for warranty testing. If it's more than 3-5 years old, get a new one. Also, make sure you test all your GFCI/AFCI breakers once a month, as per the instructions in the panel. Sorry, I was obviously not clear about what I meant when I said Rurutia posted:check the arc fault breaker itself We have the same arc-fault breaker for another section of the house that's working normally. He switched the two and that breaker also tripped so we are pretty certain it's a circuit issue and not a breaker issue. I mentioned switching out the breaker because from what I've heard, arc-fault breakers from back then (6-7 years ago) were ultra sensitive and would trip because of things like static electricity from your vacuum on carpet. If it's a loose ground wire it has to be in the walls (how is this even possible), because we watched him undo every plate and smooth it out and put it back together. grover posted:Smoke alarms are supposed to be on a breaker that's attached to lights so you can tell when it trips. They're also required to have battery back-up, and battery-powered smoke alarms will run for years on those batteries, so it's not THAT big a deal from a safety standpoint. If you don't have battery-back-up smoke alarms, you've got the wrong kind and should replace them. Yeah, they're on backup battery. We just bought this house a few months ago so I don't know what the battery condition is like (beyond it's working right this second), we will switch them out this weekend. edit At this rate I'm just going to shell out for angie's list. How is it possible that none of my friends/family around here have needed an electrician. 
Rurutia fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 15:47
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Rurutia posted:Uh, is $90/hr considered cheap? It's mid to high around here I thought. Do you have any suggestions on how to find a good electrician? This guy came recommended online, and my extensive searching for electrician reviews have come up pretty scarce for recommended ones. AFCIs are sensitive to ground faults, and can trip on neutral-ground faults (which allow some neutral current to flow through the neutral) as well as actual arc faults. Excessive leakage current through failing bathroom fans and such can cause issues, too, but AFCIs are not generally as sensitive as GFCIs to this. As can wiring gently caress-ups like combining neutrals from different circuits. You may have an arc fault in a wall. Like if a nail is driven through a cable and shorts it out some of the time. This seems to be very rare compared to electricians simply loving up and handling neutrals wrong, though.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:19
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grover posted:You may have an arc fault in a wall. Like if a nail is driven through a cable and shorts it out some of the time. I would not be surprised if that was the case. One of the things we had them repair during inspection was a leak where someone (during construction) for some unknown reason put a nail right through the wall where the water supply line was causing a leak in my closet. I don't know how the original owners bought this new house and didn't have all this poo poo taken care of in the 6 month repair that new homes get for free here.
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Aug 30, 2013 16:42
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ShadowStalker posted:Yep, they recommend you replace the battery on the battery backup smoke detectors at least once a year. I've let one go for years without replacing the battery to see how long it would be until the battery was low enough where I got the low battery notification (It's a spare bedroom with nothing in it and there's a smoke detector right outside of it in the hallway). The battery lasted 4 years before I started getting the chirping that notifies you that battery replacement is needed. I'd still replace them at least once a year to be safe. What's the point of hard-wired smoke alarms if you still have to replace the battery every year? Or did I misunderstand, and it's a single, central battery?
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Aug 30, 2013 22:45
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Guy Axlerod posted:What's the point of hard-wired smoke alarms if you still have to replace the battery every year? Or did I misunderstand, and it's a single, central battery? And no, you don't really have to replace the batteries every year, that's just an extremely conservative recommendation. They make infuriating and too-physically-painful-to-ignore beeps when they die. Which is usually like 5+ years later. At which point, I think you're supposed to actually replace the whole smoke alarm. e: 10 year replacement schedule, apparently.
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Aug 30, 2013 22:49
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What's you guys opinion on this arc fault stuff that is I guess now a code requirement? It was just coming in when I left commercial work, so I never had any dealings with it.
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Aug 30, 2013 23:44
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I've got something like half a dozen CAFCI/AFCI breakers in my house so far and zero nuisance trips. Price: not a fan at all, holy gently caress! Annoyance: neutral. I have no problems with it. Safety: it has to be better than $4 regular breakers, so I like it. This is probably because every single branch circuit that's actually powered in my house is brand new wiring I did myself, so there are no crappy outlets, no worn switches, no dodgy ground/neutral shenanigans, and no loose wire nuts. It hasn't tripped due to running an arc welder on a 30 amp breaker in the same panel as the AFCIs, either. So they're properly discriminating between arcs downstream of the breaker and arc type loads upstream of the breaker. My lovely old shopvac with very worn brushes that puts on a lightshow through the vents if the room is dark doesn't set them off when plugged into it, either. I will be installing them in every branch circuit I'm required to without any complaint except that from my bank account. ... I'll have to report back after I test out their interaction with the ATS and generator, however. I hear that often causes nuisance trips so I'm curious to see how it goes, seeing as I've been careful about my N/G bonding I don't think it will be a problem but I could be wrong.
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Aug 31, 2013 01:40
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kastein posted:... I'll have to report back after I test out their interaction with the ATS and generator, however. I hear that often causes nuisance trips so I'm curious to see how it goes, seeing as I've been careful about my N/G bonding I don't think it will be a problem but I could be wrong.
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Aug 31, 2013 01:53
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I don't do any residential work, as a matter of fact I'm not sure I've ever laid eyes on an AFCI breaker. My work is all industrial but the complaints I've read from another electrical forum I belong to: Nuisance tripping from turning off high-current loads, particularly from removing the plug from the receptacle under load. Vacuums, circular saws, etc. Nuisance tripping on lighting circuits that are controlled by certain dimmers, particularly Lutron brand. First generation AFCI's are now obsolete and could not detect series arcs. CAFCI's should detect a series arc as well as a parallel arc. Customers are being told they have to replace the $50 breaker they just bought a few years ago with another $50 breaker. There are many veteran electricians & engineers who participate in said forum who claim they have generated repeated arcs without tripping of the breakers in their tests. I think the main complaint is that the technology was pushed upon the public well before it was anywhere near an ideal solution ( shocking I know). Disclaimer: I'm not offering my opinion, just what I've gathered from reading.
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Aug 31, 2013 03:06
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Nuisance tripping from turning off high-current loads, particularly from removing the plug from the receptacle under load. Vacuums, circular saws, etc.
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Aug 31, 2013 04:25
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So, the idea that you could have an arc big enough to cause a fire, but without the current to trip a standard breaker? I'm guessing you'd generally get this on a device or appliance that isn't metal clad and has no path to ground for the fault?
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Aug 31, 2013 12:39
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grover posted:Yeah, I've heard it all too; incessant bitching about entire batches of AFCIs being defective (yeah, sure) and poo poo like that. Personally, 95% of the problems are caused by the electricians loving up the wiring and refusing to admit it. AFCIs don't tolerate sloppy handling of the neutral. My limited understanding of wiring is curious - what even happens in that situation? Someone letting grounded metal brush up against neutral terminals? Shouldn't that be pretty easy to avoid?
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Aug 31, 2013 15:19
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Raised by Hamsters posted:My limited understanding of wiring is curious - what even happens in that situation? Someone letting grounded metal brush up against neutral terminals? Shouldn't that be pretty easy to avoid?
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Aug 31, 2013 15:37
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grover posted:Yes, those type of faults are pretty easy to avoid, but they do happen. More common is mishandling of the neutrals, like if a multi-gang light switch contain two circuits, it's a common mistake for the electrician to mix the neutrals together, when they're supposed to be kept separate. AFCIs keep them honest. How so?
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Aug 31, 2013 15:47
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:How so? grover fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Aug 31, 2013 |
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Aug 31, 2013 16:14
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grover posted:If you mix neutrals of different circuits, some of the neutral current returns on the wrong neutral, which is interpreted by the AFCI breaker as a ground fault, and it trips instantly if any load is placed on either circuit. But works fine if you swap in a normal breaker. So, electricians (especially the old school uneducated luddites and their proteges) love to blame AFCIs as incompatible with [whatever load was on that circuit], ignorant of the actual cause. That'd be a GFCI.
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Aug 31, 2013 17:41
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:That'd be a GFCI. Plus they do make 2 pole GFCIs now to handle at most 2 shared neutrals. My only "nuisance trip" problem with AFCIs in my own house turned out to not be a nuisance after all. It took me a couple hours to find it, but I had a neutral-ground short in an old run of BX.
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Aug 31, 2013 17:56
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:That'd be a GFCI. grover fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 31, 2013 |
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Aug 31, 2013 18:05
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i really don't have an issue with AFCI breakers in new construction but the city i'm in requires us to install them on old circuits if we extend that circuit 2' or more. we mostly run into it when doing panel changes if the panel has to move. we've run into some absolutely nightmarish end of day troubleshooting on old knob and tube circuits that now won't hold because of a lovely open splice buried under 3 different generations of insulation in an attic that takes 4 hours to track down. instances like that they are definitely a good thing, and doing their job, but man they can be a pain in the rear end.
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Aug 31, 2013 19:29
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crocodile posted:we've run into some absolutely nightmarish end of day troubleshooting on old knob and tube circuits that now won't hold because of a lovely open splice buried under 3 different generations of insulation in an attic that takes 4 hours to track down. instances like that they are definitely a good thing, and doing their job, but man they can be a pain in the rear end. gently caress I hate attics like that. It's like a kid's ball pit only evil: hot, sweaty, sticky and itchy with the occasional wild animal.
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Aug 31, 2013 21:25
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grover posted:Not exactly; AFCI breakers include GFI as well as arc detection, but it's usually set to a higher threshold than GFCI (30ma vs 5ma). It trips on the same type of N-G or N-N faults that would trip a GFCI, though. Ah, I see. My bad.
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Aug 31, 2013 22:28
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Hi goons I have some wiring questions. I bought two of these from Ikea:  to hang on each side of this mirror:  but instead of a plug it has these wires and little cap things, with no instructions:  Is my only option to pay for an electrician to install these? They were only $20 each and every other vanity lighting set from like Home Depot or Lowes was over $100 each.
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Sep 1, 2013 13:58
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:Hi goons I have some wiring questions. Not if you just want to plug them in and don't mind seeing the cord. Just buy a couple of these http://t.homedepot.com/p/Red-Dot-1-Gang-15-8-cu-in-Weatherproof-Electrical-Box-S215E-R/202202170/ mount them to the wall with drywall anchors and screws, then pick up two grounded extension cords and cut off the female ends. Inside those boxes, use the wire nuts to attach black to black, white to white and green to green, then mount the fixture to the box and plug em in. P.s. Those round boxes are meant for surface mounting so they look 'good' but if you want extreme value, you can buy any round junction box instead.
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Sep 1, 2013 16:20
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You actually want one of these for mounting something like that http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ceiling-pan-1-2-in-deep-ko/977565
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Sep 1, 2013 16:33
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Pufflekins posted:You actually want one of these for mounting something like that http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ceiling-pan-1-2-in-deep-ko/977565 I thought of one of those, but there's no exit for the cord out the side if they'll be surface mounted, and very little room for the wire nuts.
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Sep 1, 2013 17:14
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I didn't realize that the mounting base of the lights was flat, the pancake box is definitely out of the question.
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Sep 1, 2013 18:33
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Nuisance tripping from turning off high-current loads, particularly from removing the plug from the receptacle under load. Vacuums, circular saws, etc. This one almost SHOULD trip the breaker, seeing as that's a fairly hot arc for the split second where the entire outlet glows when you rip the plug out of the outlet with a 7 amp motor spinning at warp nine on the other end of the cord.
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Sep 2, 2013 01:59
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Thanks for the help everyone! Didn't think it would be that simple.
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Sep 2, 2013 02:03
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Guy Axlerod posted:What's the point of hard-wired smoke alarms if you still have to replace the battery every year? Or did I misunderstand, and it's a single, central battery? The battery is there so that the smoke detectors can still function during a power failure. Losing power in a house when it's, you know,  ON FIRE is par for the course; wouldn't it suck if a fire started on the other side of the house, burned through the wiring for your smokes, and/or tripped the breaker for the smoke detectors, before you ever woke up? You'd wake up dead..For home stuff, it's a battery in every single smoke alarm. For anything other than a single family home, you'll probably see a central fire alarm panel somewhere (assuming it was built in the mid 80s or newer), which has its own set of batteries to keep everything alive during a power failure. Fresh set of SLA batteries in a panel can keep the entire system going a couple of days. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 13:09
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some texas redneck posted:The battery is there so that the smoke detectors can still function during a power failure. Losing power in a house when it's, you know, I understand the point of having backup power, I just figured that they would use a rechargeable battery, or a supercap. Something that would last more than one year.
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Sep 2, 2013 13:18
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Some use a 10 year lithium battery. But there's not many battery chemistries that would appreciate being on a trickle charge for several years, the one real exception would be lead acid batteries (car battery, UPS battery, etc, they handle trickle charging for years just fine). And I don't see even a supercap powering a smoke alarm for very long. The once a year replacement is a good way to remember it's time to change the batteries, but to be honest (note: I AM NOT CONDONING THIS) you could just wait for them to start chirping. The once yearly bit more applied to battery-only smoke alarms without A/C, but generally even the best battery won't last more than a few years (unless you go lithium). Smoke alarms save lives, etc - don't take any shortcuts with them. There's one smoke alarm that's not easy to reach in this house, I just wait for that one to start chirping.. then track down some scaffolding so I can get to the drat thing.. 
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Sep 2, 2013 13:52
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Guy Axlerod posted:I understand the point of having backup power, I just figured that they would use a rechargeable battery, or a supercap. Something that would last more than one year. They're standard shelf 9v batteries, and it's kinda a safety-of-life issue, so why not replace them every year instead of having any shred of doubt that they won't work when they have to? Because of the NEC and related codes, the #1 cause of house fires is no longer wiring faults, but it's still up in the top 10. My parents' house has its original smoke detectors which are centrally wired and 20 years old. I told them to replace them, but since they don't beep, they don't think they're failed. When I was doing some troubleshooting and shut off the circuit, they emit about half of a strangled beep; that's how dead the batteries are.
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Sep 2, 2013 13:53
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