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I finally finished the Brute! If you want to smash stuff up and throw goblins at each other, it's all ready: Google Docs link for goons. The monstrous class now comes with proper bonds, e.g. quote:______ looks like a tasty snack It's also on sale at Drivethrurpg too, if you fancy purchasing it! Extra thanks to Boing and Lemoncurdistan for all the criticism, ideas and advice. Edit: updated to v1.1 The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 14:14
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You're welcome, but I feel that 7-9 on Showboat is particularly bad.  It's vague, doesn't have any fictional oomph and it's basically just "it works slightly less well" instead of offering exciting compromises. I'd replace it with "on a 7-9, you draw unwanted attention" or something. e; like this: Showboat When you perform a feat of strength in front of an audience, roll+Str. On a hit, you keep their attention as they watch in amazement or dismay. On a 7-9, you also draw unwanted attention to yourself.
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Sep 2, 2013 14:22
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Awesome! I've been looking forward to this. Looks really fun and well-rounded. Some comments: You have this move for 'Hurl', but you also have the 'Heavy' item tag for ranged weapons. When you volley with it, you use STR. Wouldn't you just Hurl it? The only point on the character sheet where the 'Heavy' tag actually comes up is on a single option in Nobody Makes Me Bleed My Own Blood. Should Strong Constitution be a Background choice? It looks like you were planning to rename it. Rend has a strange synergy with Armed and Dangerous. Rolling 7-9 on Rend basically means you pick someone up and swing them around, but they're blunt and messy, rather than reach, forceful and awkward. No tag overlap. It feels a bit weird! Boing fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 14:31
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Thanks, that's much better! That's going straight in.Boing posted:Awesome! I've been looking forward to this. Looks really fun and well-rounded. Boing posted:Should Strong Constitution be a Background choice? It looks like you were planning to rename it. The 7-9 option for Rend is basically meant to be hitting someone with their own limb, rather than others. It would definitely be fitting to include awkward there though, I'll put that in! Edit: updated! The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 14:33
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I ran my first game of Dungeon World last night for three players. Overall everyone had a good time, but I definitely ran into some snags that I'm not sure how to address for future games. Heads up: this might get long-ish. - Two of the players are big Pathfinder fans, so they're used to a more structured game. They kept thinking in terms of finding the "correct" solution, where in most cases I hadn't designed one. They seemed to feel somewhat constrained by the moves on the character sheet and the Basic Moves list, even though I encouraged them to just say what their characters would do in the situation, stats/moves be damned. - The game took about twice as long as I'd planned. They wanted to poke and prod and explore everything, then discuss before taking action. I tried to move this along with my Grim Portents, which I designed to escalate the apparent danger level. Despite the complex they were in literally coming apart around them (at a couple of points with obvious direct consequences), they didn't seem to be in a huge hurry. As a GM I feel I should be pushing the pacing, but I'm not exactly sure what else I can do. Introducing more actual hazards/consequences for delay seemed to slow things down rather than speed them up. - The group was a bit lukewarm on some of the game systems. Spellcasting was a big one. The Cleric complained about having to roll to see if his spell worked at all -- kind of a bummer if you're super-low on hit points and under attack, but you may be wasting a move (and inviting danger) by trying to heal yourself. In dangerous situations it makes spellcasting too risky, and in non-dangerous situations, even with the possible negative effects (drawing unwanted attention, etc.) it didn't seem that bad to keep casting the same spell until you get the effect you want. - We didn't use maps. Bad idea. I'm drawing maps for them next time. In a large battle (where at one point the players split up), it was really hard to figure out where everyone was in relation to each other and the environment. - Later in the game I was having trouble coming up with interesting moves for the monster and the dungeon. One of the players had horrible luck with his dice rolls, so I was constantly having to make hard/soft moves that needed to be more interesting than "the thing opens up a gash in your arm, take damage" or "you fall back, stunned against the pillar as your shield clatters to the floor". I did do some "put an ally in peril", "increase the threat", and "reveal an unwelcome truth" stuff, but my imagination was getting strained toward the end. How do you other GM's handle these things? I think the group wants to run another adventure with these characters at some point, but I want to streamline things and make them feel more heroic. That said, there were some really high points! - The loose structure of Dungeon World made the game very character-driven, and the players embraced it. I felt like they had a good grasp on their characters at the beginning, and by the end we had all learned something about each other. They were actually, you know, roleplaying. To give an example: The Halfling Thief player tends to get really attached to her characters, and she was having a blast coming up with a personality and little details about her. At one point she took a grievous hit from a Shadowling (nasty kobold-imp hybrid) and went down, taking her Last Breath move. I asked her what Halflings (or her in particular) believe happens after death, and she described a massive sunny meadow where they run and play games. Building on this, I said that as her vision of the mundane world faded, she saw this meadow, full of people that she'd never met -- but felt a strong kinship with -- laughing and running around. A young, handsome Halfling wearing a sparkling blue tunic turned to her and beckoned. "Come play with us. We've been waiting for you." She made her roll -- an 8, partial success. The figure spoke: "You hesitate. Why? Are you not ready? You can go back to your friends if you wish, but what you see may not be here when you return." The player actually stopped to consider it! This player, who had been masterfully roleplaying her character all night and seemed to have a deep affection for her, wondered whether her little Halfling would prefer the serenity of the realm of death! That's just... amazing to me, and it's something I've never seen with any other game system. - The flexibility of not having a fully fleshed-out world made for some interesting situations. For example, in this world, the Gnomes are long-extinct. I asked the players why, and they came up with a great backstory: The gnomes had grown increasingly obsessed with their clockwork creations, to the point where they became xenophobic and only wished to work on their magical constructs. Eventually these constructs became so advanced that they developed intelligence, and they turned on their creators (okay, yeah, this part is a little bit Battlestar Galactica). This wiped out the gnomes world-wide in a very short time. Unfortunately, once they had destroyed their masters, the constructs emerged from the gnomes' underground settlements and laboratories and began to attack towns and villages. The surface races -- humans, elves, and halflings, who had no particular love for each other -- raised the largest army the realms had ever seen to fight the clockwork menace. They were victorious, but the cost was incalculable -- thousands died, and entire towns were wiped off the map during the fighting. In the aftermath (and in the decades since), magical and mechanical constructs were strictly outlawed in all civilized societies. Practitioners in this type of craft were hunted down and often put to death (think necromancy in some fantasy settings). Creating a golem is literally one of the most heinous things you can do. This is very interesting, because the first adventure took place in a long-lost Gnomish laboratory. One of the things I'd included in my adventure was small clockwork servant that the heroes could activate, which would follow them around as a companion. Normally this would be a great boon, but the background they'd crafted suddenly introduced a huge dilemma -- they couldn't be seen on the surface with one of these abominations, and the Cleric had to be talked out of smashing the thing then and there. They eventually -- and almost tearfully -- deactivated the construct and left it behind. - The players loved the treasure system. With a few exceptions, I always gave them a choice of two very different items, some of which were not obviously useful at first glance. I was kind of sad that they didn't try to Spout Lore on anything they found, because it would have been fun to explore these items (several of which I had no idea what they'd do). Okay, this got really long, but I wanted to type up some thoughts while my memory was still fresh. I'm interested in peoples' feedback if anyone read this far!
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Sep 2, 2013 17:56
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So I successfully had my players change from Pathfinder to DW characters, keeping the same story. Some had to change the characters a bit, and for some stuff I just winged it, but it went pretty well. Our rogue became a city thief, the Inquisitor became a Slayer (he played the Inquisitor up as a monster slayer anyway, so it fit), and an Alchemist became an Artificer (who is SUPPOSED to be an Elf but just took the Human advantage because, well, no elves on the playbook). Also has a Barbarian (easiest switch of them all :p ) and a new Paladin. Of note: The artificer blew up a few goblins up... and the thief along with them. Whoops. The barbarian clapped at a Goblin's head and made it explode. The Paladin's oath let him shield the team from a fire attack (after nearly getting his face blasted off by a spellcaster). The barbarian throwing the thief across a trap to get her to deactivate it (they are best buds). And the Slayer alerting the entire fortress of their presence despite the battle raging outside it, several times over. And all this? This is despite starting two hours late. In pathfinder I think we'd have had time for two battles at most. They are still grasping some of basic stuff (Yes, always roll 2d6, except for damage. Always. Like right now. Again.), but I was informed that they enjoyed how it went. I love this system.
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Sep 2, 2013 18:18
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In order: 1) Remind them that they don't get to pick what moves they make. They only get to narrate what their PC is doing, and then it's the GM who decides what move that triggers. Eventually, with any luck, they'll realise the moves aren't a list of what they can do but a list of the things they can do that have mechanics. 2) Did you explain to them that you had fronts and dangers, and that those advance automatically the more time they take to do stuff? It's not necessarily obvious to people who haven't read the book, unless you make it 100% clear in the fiction that they're trying to prevent something bad from happening within a time limit, since they're probably used to the plot happening when they get there. A simple "seriously, the building will collapse around you" should be enough, and if they still take their time then whatever happens happens. 3) Spells are powerful and versatile, and balanced out by the risk of losing them. Re: just rolling the move over and over again, remember that every partial success and failure is an opportunity for you to make a move (soft or hard) that introduces new dangers, so do that, especially if they pick the "you draw unwelcome attention" option. Remember also that you're supposed to pull stuff out of your rear end as long as it fits the fiction, so if they "draw unwanted attention" while casting Fireball, it's completely legitimate to have their casting spawn a young fire elemental that just wants to play fetch, or whatever. If they end up finding something awesome to do with that, so much the better for everyone involved. This isn't D&D, you're not constrained by piles of bullshit spell effects rules, just use your imagination. Finally, you could also just use the Mage and Priest instead of the Wizard and Cleric, to get rid of Vancian casting entirely. 5) as mentioned above, you 100% should be introducing new dangers that aren't part of your notes and haven't really been showcased in the fiction yet, as long as it makes even a minimum amount of sense why they'd be there (and if it doesn't, turn the question on the players and get them to tell you why that just happened). Player rolls a partial? They make noise and everyone hears the sounds of orcs coming down the corridor, even if you didn't have an encounter with orcs in your dungeon notes. It was a miss? The orcs were patrolling and just rounded the bend, and are very surprised to see five heavily-armed humans in the middle of their lair.
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Sep 2, 2013 18:19
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WhiteHowler posted:- The group was a bit lukewarm on some of the game systems. Spellcasting was a big one. The Cleric complained about having to roll to see if his spell worked at all -- kind of a bummer if you're super-low on hit points and under attack, but you may be wasting a move (and inviting danger) by trying to heal yourself. In dangerous situations it makes spellcasting too risky, and in non-dangerous situations, even with the possible negative effects (drawing unwanted attention, etc.) it didn't seem that bad to keep casting the same spell until you get the effect you want. A lot of people really didn't like Dungeon World's base spellcasting mechanics, myself included. If you want good replacement options, they certainly exist: Wizard replacements: Artificer, Mage, Channeler, Collector, Witch. Cleric replacements: Medic, Priest, Lantern, Rainlord, Shaman. Obviously, all of them do things very differently from each other - the Witch is very much a Harry Potter type spellcaster, Channeler is an elemental spellcaster, Mage is basically a non-Vancian Wizard, Artificer uses customized gadgets instead of spells, and Collector uses a huge pile of gear and weird poo poo they've found over the years. Collector is basically a non-magical Wizard. For the Cleric replacements, Medic is like a non-magical Cleric, Lantern is like a Jedi Knight type holy man, Priest is non-Vancian Cleric, Rainlord is a divine elemental warrior made from a piece of a god, and Grim World's Shaman is a WoW cleric, using cool spirits and totems to do lots of weird things.
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Sep 2, 2013 18:41
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Lemon Curdistan posted:5) as mentioned above, you 100% should be introducing new dangers that aren't part of your notes and haven't really been showcased in the fiction yet, as long as it makes even a minimum amount of sense why they'd be there (and if it doesn't, turn the question on the players and get them to tell you why that just happened). Player rolls a partial? They make noise and everyone hears the sounds of orcs coming down the corridor, even if you didn't have an encounter with orcs in your dungeon notes. It was a miss? The orcs were patrolling and just rounded the bend, and are very surprised to see five heavily-armed humans in the middle of their lair. Be careful with this one. It can really bog down a game if you keep throwing trash enemies at the party every time someone rolls a 6, especially if they've already fully explored the area and the fight is the only thing keeping them there. Instead of using a danger that might force them to stay in one place (like fighting orcs), use a danger that will get them to move on or split up or make a tough choice (like "the room is slowly filling with sand" or "you hear someone about to finish casting a dark ritual in the next room").
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Sep 2, 2013 19:29
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Elmo Oxygen posted:Be careful with this one. It can really bog down a game if you keep throwing trash enemies at the party every time someone rolls a 6, especially if they've already fully explored the area and the fight is the only thing keeping them there. Instead of using a danger that might force them to stay in one place (like fighting orcs), use a danger that will get them to move on or split up or make a tough choice (like "the room is slowly filling with sand" or "you hear someone about to finish casting a dark ritual in the next room"). Yeah, my examples were pretty crummy. This is good advice. Use it as a tool to speed up or slow down your game, as desired!
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Sep 2, 2013 19:33
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In my weekly game, the party finally went into town for the first time (almost a year into the campaign). They weren't even in town for a day before the (evil) Templar got thrown in the hoosegow for trying to pawn off bottles of cave mold as bootleg healing potions in the local market. He leveled up at the end of the session and took the Voice of Authority move, so now he rolls around with his own personal prison gang of Tiamat cultists. edit: one awesome thing about DW is that without the constant inflow of +1 Daggers and other boring D&D loot, my players carry around anything not nailed to the ground. It might be useless cave mold right now, but they'll find a use for it sooner or later. Some things in my party's inventory over the last few months: -The petrified corpse of one of the PC's, being carried around in the Goliath Battlemind's backpack -Said battlemind's amputated hand, worn on a necklace as a good luck charm. -A mystery potion that just says "BIRD" on the label. -A gong, used as a Captain America shield/discus/distraction maker by the Halfling Gladiator. -Giant ant pheremone sacs, just in case. -Any and every mold, fungus, spore or slime. It's like a lucasarts adventure game. They will also eat anything that vaguely resembles food, just to see what happens. Elmo Oxygen fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 19:34
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I just ran a "practice" session for two of my friends last night, and we had a blast. I'm pretty sure Dungeon World is the ideal system for my group, and so many of the things we used to chafe against--tactical, micromanage-y combat and giant piles of intricate magic items rules--being gone frees us up a whole lot. It's beautiful. We're going to continue to play with the two characters they made--a curious and effete Bard tagging along with a hammer-toting halfling Fighter whose sole mission is to toughen up the Bard by hazing the poo poo out of him--while we pull together a larger group. The most fun I had was asking the two players a bunch of questions that determined what adventure they were going to have: that the halfling Fighter was taking the Bard through a halfling rite-of-passage involving a temple to the frog god Shrogdok and the vicious frogmen who worship him. In the mean time, I'd love some advice on how to make combat more interesting. The thing I already know I need to work on is memorizing, understanding, and sticking to the GM moves, since there are so many good ideas for ways to keep the narrative going in there. Our first, and so far only, combat involved three frogmen ambushing the two PCs in the swamp, and it was tough for me to come up with interesting consequences to their 7-9 and 6- rolls that weren't just "you stumble, and the frogman is now poised above you, ready to stab down with his spear; what do you do?" or "the frogman manages to slip his spear through your armor, take 4 damage." Are there any good recorded sessions online I could listen to so as to get a better idea of a good working "flow" for Dungeon World combat.
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Sep 2, 2013 20:01
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Harrow posted:In the mean time, I'd love some advice on how to make combat more interesting. The thing I already know I need to work on is memorizing, understanding, and sticking to the GM moves, since there are so many good ideas for ways to keep the narrative going in there. Our first, and so far only, combat involved three frogmen ambushing the two PCs in the swamp, and it was tough for me to come up with interesting consequences to their 7-9 and 6- rolls that weren't just "you stumble, and the frogman is now poised above you, ready to stab down with his spear; what do you do?" or "the frogman manages to slip his spear through your armor, take 4 damage." Are there any good recorded sessions online I could listen to so as to get a better idea of a good working "flow" for Dungeon World combat. Looking back on our session, one GM move that really stands out to me is "Offer an opportunity, with or without cost". I almost never used this one, and it seems like one of the most interesting moves the GM can make. Let's say your Cleric is swinging wildly with his quarterstaff and misses his Hack and Slash roll. "The orc deftly retreats from your swings, and you press forward, trying to land a solid hit. As you feint a thrust, your staff tangles in the ragged sash tied around his torso. Your wild swings have driven the orc back toward the edge of the bottomless pit. A good shove may well push him in, but it would take your only weapon with him. With a crazed look in his eyes, the orc thrusts his dirk at you. You only have a split second to decide on your next move. What do you do?" At that point there are three obvious choices, each with a sacrifice to be made: - Spend time (and take an attack) trying to extract the staff from the orc's clothing - Jump back and dodge the incoming attack to avoid damage - Say "screw it", shove the orc into the pit, and lose a valuable piece of equipment forever Or the player may even come up with a better solution! The best part is that you aren't dictating the next scene to the player. They're deciding what happens next and are at least partially responsible for the consequences. This seems a lot more appealing than just reacting with damage or consistently worsening situations. I'm looking forward to trying it out in our next session, because I think it fills in a huge piece of the Dungeon World GMing puzzle that I was missing last night. WhiteHowler fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 2, 2013 |
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Sep 2, 2013 22:13
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WhiteHowler posted:Let's say your Cleric is swinging wildly with his quarterstaff and misses his Hack and Slash roll. "The orc deftly retreats from your swings, and you press forward, trying to land a solid hit. As you feint a thrust, your staff tangles in the ragged sash tied around his torso. Your wild swings have driven the orc back toward the edge of the bottomless pit. A good shove may well push him in, but it would take your only weapon with him. With a crazed look in his eyes, the orc thrusts his dirk at you. You only have a split second to decide on your next move. What do you do?" This is a great example of a partial success, rather than an outright failure - the player gets what they want (they get rid of the orc), but at a cost - either they lose their weapon, or they take an attack (or they choose to abort). Keep in mind that "an attack" is incredibly broad by design - almost anything that involves the monster disadvantaging the player can count as an attack (hitting them is an attack, but so's batting them out of the way, or breaking their shield, or pushing them over the edge, etc.). Unrelated: I just reinstalled Thief 2, and it took all of ten seconds for me to remember exactly why I wrote the City Thief in the first place.
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Sep 2, 2013 23:34
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WhiteHowler posted:Let's say your Cleric is swinging wildly with his quarterstaff and misses his Hack and Slash roll. "The orc deftly retreats from your swings, and you press forward, trying to land a solid hit. As you feint a thrust, your staff tangles in the ragged sash tied around his torso. Your wild swings have driven the orc back toward the edge of the bottomless pit. A good shove may well push him in, but it would take your only weapon with him. With a crazed look in his eyes, the orc thrusts his dirk at you. You only have a split second to decide on your next move. What do you do?" That's a really helpful example. Thanks for that. I definitely have a lot of D&D/Pathfinder habits to knock out of myself while learning Dungeon World. I'm always extremely hesitant to narrate things that aren't extremely direct results of dice rolls or just hard things about the setting; but Dungeon World's about the fiction, not the dice. Your example would probably be out of place in Pathfinder, but in Dungeon World it's the meat of things, because players have almost as much freedom to narrate as the GM does. I also really love ending every segment of narration with, "What do you do?"
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Sep 3, 2013 16:27
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With the Brute now in existence, is there any room for a playbook for characters that go from normal to monstrous by some hidden power? (Given by a god, hereditary, science expirements, maybe a mysterious origin that they don't know of.) The two main inspirations I have for this idea are Bruce Banner/Hulk, Eren Jaeger from Attack on Titan, and now that I think about it, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde in some source material (where changing can happen somewhat at-will) or werewolves (again, somewhat at-will) could also serve as inspiration. I was thinking the playbook would revolve around two things - building up to a change and what happens once you've changed. Hulk changes with anger, Eren changes mostly to seek revenge. I've seen werewolves in some material change merely to solve a problem (usually with violence, but sometimes just to use superior senses). Jekyll/Hyde in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen shows a struggle between the two halves, with Hyde taking over when needed, especially in periods of great stress or anger. For what happens when you transform, I was thinking you get a benefit or two and a drawback. The Hulk example would get a armor, probably higher damage, and a debility to Intelligence. Eren would get something to show his combat finesse as a Titan, maybe piercing damage or a different tag, and a drawback that shows he's not fully in control. Mr. Hyde, I'm not really sure. A werewolf would likely get something to show their claws and fangs, as well as their sense, and some sort of drawback that brings animal instinct into the mix.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:33
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Yes, there's still very much room for that. That core concept (changing) is completely unrelated to the Brute, just make sure it's not a Str-based class that spends all its time smashing stuff.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:41
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Absolutely! I think there's already a Jekyll and Hyde book out there (I might have posted a draft in the previous thread?), and if not I've definitely got a half-baked one in a notepad somewhere that turned into a demon whispering heretic, who was a cross between a summoner and a posessed dude. That probably doesn't have the variety of fiction you're looking for, so I'd recommend just making one up yourself! I've finally collated most of my notes together for PirateWorld and am thinking about doing a kickstarter like Inverse World and Grim World as I'd love to get it printed, but I don't have an artist! Does anyone know the best way to recruit a partner in crime? The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 16:45
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I really want to try something stupid like giving a player two playbooks, like The Noble and The Brute or whatever, with some additional triggering move that makes them switch between the two. Level up both at once, but you can only use the moves from the playbook you're in at the moment.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:50
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On the Brute, I'm assuming it does d8 damage, but noticed that the dice icon is that of a d6. I know it's nitpicking, but I'm sure it's something you'd want to fix.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:51
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The Supreme Court posted:I've finally collated most of my notes together for PirateWorld and am thinking about doing a kickstarter like Inverse World and Grim World as I'd love to get it printed, but I don't have an artist! Does anyone know the best way to recruit a partner in crime? scobble is the officially-rad bwf/TGD artist, but he's probably backed up for the next six months because of Mikan: http://obfuscobble.tumblr.com/post/12911655250 Still worth a shot, though, his rates are insane and he's really good:  thedandmom also does commission work, but I can't remember where her site is. Try asking in the chat or industry threads, you'll get more response there.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:55
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Yes, there's still very much room for that. That core concept (changing) is completely unrelated to the Brute, just make sure it's not a Str-based class that spends all its time smashing stuff. I was actually thinking CON-based (I'm wary of too much based on CON for some reason I can't put my mind on) with a buildup to getting huge and gnarly. One of the starting moves should also be about what the character is when he's not a monstrosity, because it's part of the identity of the character. Some of the advanced moves should also be about that.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:59
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Boing posted:I really want to try something stupid like giving a player two playbooks, like The Noble and The Brute or whatever, with some additional triggering move that makes them switch between the two. Level up both at once, but you can only use the moves from the playbook you're in at the moment. Now that would be a great way o play a transformation class! Brute and Noble would probably work quite well as the two, would you keep the stats the same? Stat redistribution or move access could be part of the boosts/ drawbacks with the Transformation move. One thing i'd like to test with Pirate World is having smaller books but two for each. First one would be an adjective, second the main class, eg you could be a Swashbuckling Alchemist, Gunpowder Brute or Pirate Necromancer. Cheers for the dice thing, I'll fix that.
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Sep 3, 2013 16:59
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The Supreme Court posted:Now that would be a great way o play a transformation class! Brute and Noble would probably work quite well as the two, would you keep the stats the same? Stat redistribution or move access could be part of the boosts/ drawbacks with the Transformation move. I actually had a thought like this when I was considering an AW hack for Mass Effect. One playbook for race and another for class. I never did go through with it, though.
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Sep 3, 2013 17:23
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Lemon Curdistan posted:scobble is the officially-rad bwf/TGD artist, but he's probably backed up for the next six months because of Mikan: http://obfuscobble.tumblr.com/post/12911655250 Thanks a lot for these, I'll check them out.
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Sep 3, 2013 19:06
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The Supreme Court posted:Absolutely! I think there's already a Jekyll and Hyde book out there (I might have posted a draft in the previous thread?), and if not I've definitely got a half-baked one in a notepad somewhere that turned into a demon whispering heretic, who was a cross between a summoner and a posessed dude. That probably doesn't have the variety of fiction you're looking for, so I'd recommend just making one up yourself! I'm on deployment until the end of October, but I'd be willing to contribute when I get back. This example is pretty cartoony, but I can shoot for something realistic as well. I have a bunch of stuff on my imageshack account but the link keeps diverting to some other url. I can't use Imgur on the ship's computers. Elderbean fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 20:48
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^^^ There's so much character in that illustration that it's blowing my mind and I want to play that character immediately. Unrelated, and another "please help me GM Dungeon World better" question: how can I encourage my players to simply narrate what they do and leave deciding what moves happen to me? They're generally okay on the basic moves, but they still treat their class moves like D&D 4e powers. The Bard, for example, tried to say, "I want to use Charming and Open on the elf." I explained to her that she had to actually do the move's trigger--she had to speak frankly with the elf--and then I would say, "Looks like you're being pretty Charming and Open. The elf seems open to a little quid pro quo" or something hopefully much better than that. And I wanted her to go further than just narrating, "I speak frankly with the elf." I pushed her to actually improvise some dialogue. Did I go too far? I mean, nobody got mad at me or anything, so by that metric I guess I did okay, but is that in the spirit of the rules?
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Sep 3, 2013 21:07
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Harrow posted:^^^ There's so much character in that illustration that it's blowing my mind and I want to play that character immediately. Every group is a little different, but narrating seems much more fun to me.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:12
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Harrow posted:Unrelated, and another "please help me GM Dungeon World better" question: how can I encourage my players to simply narrate what they do and leave deciding what moves happen to me? They're generally okay on the basic moves, but they still treat their class moves like D&D 4e powers. The Bard, for example, tried to say, "I want to use Charming and Open on the elf." I explained to her that she had to actually do the move's trigger--she had to speak frankly with the elf--and then I would say, "Looks like you're being pretty Charming and Open. The elf seems open to a little quid pro quo" or something hopefully much better than that. And I wanted her to go further than just narrating, "I speak frankly with the elf." I pushed her to actually improvise some dialogue.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:41
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Elderbean posted:I'm on deployment until the end of October, but I'd be willing to contribute when I get back. Your art is incredible! I'm sending a PM now. e: I can't get a message through! You can reach me on my email at improperdancing at gmail.com The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 3, 2013 |
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Sep 3, 2013 21:57
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Harrow posted:^^^ There's so much character in that illustration that it's blowing my mind and I want to play that character immediately. The phrase "Okay, how do you do that?" is your friend in these kinds of situations.
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Sep 3, 2013 21:59
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Boing posted:The phrase "Okay, how do you do that?" is your friend in these kinds of situations. Yeah, use positive reinforcement and leading to get them to change behavior, don't scold them. When they say things like 'I want to use Charming and Open', you don't say no, you say "Great! How?" It's totally OK to let players intentionally use their moves, that's what they're there for! Don't frame it as a mother-may-I game. Once players are used to what their moves do, and have gotten comfortable with answering the question "Great! How?" then you should find it runs more smoothly.
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Sep 3, 2013 22:48
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I had a player who absolutely hates this game, claiming that he feels like he is being limited by the lack of mechanical detail in his moves. Am I the only person who got that sort of feedback? I'm certainly not going to make him play DW if its not what he's into, but I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around what he's saying and he isn't being particularly forthcoming about it. For what its worth he's a major fan of Pathfinder and 4e, maybe its some kind of Stockholm syndrome? 
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Sep 4, 2013 01:34
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Sounds like he's just more into crunch than story. There are players who approach RPG more from a tactical miniatures board game type of perspective. Story is just the cut scenes between your big battles.
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Sep 4, 2013 02:01
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EscortMission posted:I had a player who absolutely hates this game, claiming that he feels like he is being limited by the lack of mechanical detail in his moves. Am I the only person who got that sort of feedback? If it's not just "inability to min-max every action," it could be that he wants to know exactly how his abilities work, rather than just making poo poo up as he goes. I've met some people who are royally bad at making things up, they just freeze up, deer-in-the-headlights look and all.
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Sep 4, 2013 02:08
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EscortMission posted:I had a player who absolutely hates this game, claiming that he feels like he is being limited by the lack of mechanical detail in his moves. Am I the only person who got that sort of feedback? This is perfectly fine, not everyone is into taking control of the narrative/into storygames. A lot of times you just need to step up the GM game a bit and offer to fill in the gaps for the player, prefacing it with "how about..." or ending with "sound good?" I have about half the players like this (also really love 4e and other crunchy systems), and it works just fine if they do relent and get into story games. Different playstyles for different folks!
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Sep 4, 2013 02:13
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Fenarisk posted:This is perfectly fine, not everyone is into taking control of the narrative/into storygames. A lot of times you just need to step up the GM game a bit and offer to fill in the gaps for the player, prefacing it with "how about..." or ending with "sound good?" Pretty much all the players except the ones I had at Animefest this weekend came from 4e, most of them have to get tugged out a little but eventually get the hang of it.
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Sep 4, 2013 03:03
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Boing posted:The phrase "Okay, how do you do that?" is your friend in these kinds of situations. That makes a whole lot of sense to me, actually. And it fits in well with Dungeon World's "yes, but" philosophy. Thanks for the advice, everyone.
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Sep 4, 2013 03:28
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EscortMission posted:I had a player who absolutely hates this game, claiming that he feels like he is being limited by the lack of mechanical detail in his moves. Am I the only person who got that sort of feedback? It could be lack of 'control' they see in the game. Because the rules aren't clearly defined on what the particular consequences of an action will be, the player may not be able to "plan" for it by constructing their character a certain way. Mastery of the rules in DW does not ensure success. DW isn't really even interested in the difficulty of a given task, its interested it he danger and consequences of the task. I haven't had players that felt this way in my games, but I have seen this opinion expressed elsewhere online. A lot of pathfinder/3.5 stuff seems geared around leveraging the rules to make sure your effective enough. I've noticed that its very easy to make an ineffective character in pathfinder. A certain level of rules understanding and leveraging during character creation is required to have an effective character or to keep up with the munchkin arms race, which can be fun in its own way, but it is not what dungeon world does at all. In DW the strategy is in fictional positioning. Getting the advantage that might mean you don't have to roll and you just do it, or where you are leveraging your better stat or getting bonuses from hold and forward. Some players balk when they only read the player facing rules, because they don't have a grasp on how play advances, or the GM's role in DW. Sometimes a read through or explanation of the GM rules, and that they are rules instead of nebulous advice is what helps it click.
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Sep 4, 2013 06:49
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 17:03 |
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There are some differences of opinion about how Black Magic's two-targets (-1 damage) tag should work. I've always thought of it as both targets take the full damage, -1 of course. The other opinion is that after subtracting 1, the remaining damage is divided between the targets. What do you goons say?
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Sep 4, 2013 07:15
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