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The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

Spiffo posted:

I mean put both screens on the tablet. It's big enough.

edit: and if it's not, I guess you could mess with the game a bit to make it supported, but :effort:
It's big enough that you could do it sideways, but that would make for some confusing controls. It's definitely not big enough any other way.

Install Windows posted:

I am not sure that the 3DS currently allows for playing DS games from a download in the first place, since the system locks out the SD card when it's in DS mode for real cartridges.
It's definitely supported in Download Play, and it supports DSiWare. If they're concerned about piracy it could just download to the internal flash memory, which would significantly limit how much you could store at one time but it's doable for sure. I can't imagine DS games are anywhere near the filesize of 3DS games, though, so you could fit a few games.

e: DS games range from 8 MB-512 MB so you would definitely be able to fit quite a few games, compared to 3DS (1 gig-8 gigs)

The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Sep 3, 2013

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fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Quest For Glory II posted:

And, of course, Nintendo never permanently marks down their own games, so Mario Kart 7 is still the same price it was at launch, for example. These things don't help.

They generally sell so well though. Nintendo doesn't feel pressured to adjust their game prices aggressively like, say, the Ubisoft did for Rayman when that game initially sold poorly. People will still pick up Mario Kart 7 at 39.99 DIGITALLY even if the price for a physical copy goes down, either because they feel the convenience is worth the extra cost, or because they really really like Mario Kart.

Sticker Star is a game that a number of folks around here felt let down by, but it still has reached nearly 2 million sales according to available information from Nintendo. If there's anything the company rarely must worry about, it's the sales of their major franchises. It explains why they market things the way they do. I think that same mindset leaked into the creation of the Wii U as well. The Wii was such a dramatic reversal of fortune for their home consoles that they clearly thought the name needed to be carried on so they could sell it at the price they wanted. It works for their games, right?

Midee
Jun 22, 2000

Quest For Glory II posted:

It's big enough that you could do it sideways, but that would make for some confusing controls. It's definitely not big enough any other way.
The tablet has enough pixels to do it horizontally, though at native resolution the screens would be pretty tiny. They could work in a screen switching method to stretch it out, but of course that would require more than the minimum of effort and this is Nintendo we're talking about.

Bovineicide
May 2, 2005

Eating your face since 1991.

NESguerilla posted:

Is there a specific reason it wouldn't work? I don't recall what happened with Hudson, but I don't see any logical reason as to why Nintendo would be doomed if they kept up their handheld business while allowing Nintendo games to be published on other systems. I'll admit it sounds weird, but I really see no reason why it would damage them. They could ditch the burden of manufacturing consoles that don't have a huge profit margin, while maximizing profits on their games by allowing a wider audience to buy them.

The only reason I can see it being a bad idea is if Nintendo is making boat loads of cash off of third party licensing, which may have been the case with the Wii, but not with the Wii U.


Holy poo poo, that thing sold as many units as the 360 and PS3 combined? :psyduck:

You really don't want to give people reasons to not buy your hardware. A lot of adults never play their 3DS or DS outside of the house, but we buy them anyway because there's really good games on there that you can't get anywhere else. Why would I buy a 3DS and the new Zelda if I can just wait for them to release one on Steam or a next-gen console? There's also the issue of letting their competitors profit from their games. I don't think phone games compete directly with consoles and the 3DS, but I think there is competition between the latter two. I wouldn't see that doing Nintendo any good except have them compete with themselves and cannibalize sales.

Spiffo
Nov 24, 2005

fivegears4reverse posted:

Sticker Star is a game that a number of folks around here felt let down by, but it still has reached nearly 2 million sales according to available information from Nintendo. If there's anything the company rarely must worry about, it's the sales of their major franchises.

Sticker Star makes the next Paper Mario game a harder sell, though. And if they can't sell the next one, then there goes that franchise.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Quest For Glory II posted:

It's definitely supported in Download Play, and it supports DSiWare. If they're concerned about piracy it could just download to the internal flash memory, which would significantly limit how much you could store at one time but it's doable for sure. I can't imagine DS games are anywhere near the filesize of 3DS games, though, so you could fit a few games.

e: DS games range from 8 MB-512 MB so you would definitely be able to fit quite a few games, compared to 3DS (1 gig-8 gigs)

Download Play only allows for the 4 megabyte stubs DS games have for download play. DSiWare games are limited to a 20 MB download and they only play off the internal memory thing, you can store them on SD card but in order to play them you have to copy back to the internal storage. Last I checked, when you put the 3DS into DS mode for DS games, everything is locked out. The 3DS' whole system is specifically setup to allow you to run 3DS software off the SD card, it has the proper DRM stuff and all that to allow it.



I think the more likely scenario would be Nintendo pulling the "HD Remix" thing and have like $20 downloads of a game recoded for the 3DS, wide top screen support, etc.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Spiffo posted:

Sticker Star makes the next Paper Mario game a harder sell, though. And if they can't sell the next one, then there goes that franchise.

Man, if this ran true with Nintendo franchises not named Metroid (and maybe even then!), Mario Kart should have died after 64/Super Circuit/Double Dash/DS/Wii/7. I don't have a lot of kind things to say about the Wii U, but you can't deny just how well Nintendo games do. A stumble for the franchise like Sticker Star sold 2 million? Most games don't even sell one million.

You can liken this to Nintendo's hardware, in a way. I don't think they'll be getting out of the home console business just because the Wii U is doing badly now. They honestly had plenty of reason to do so with the GameCube but they stuck with it.

I think if Nintendo actually takes the time to learn from what they've done and what the competition has done, they'd have significantly fewer problems to worry about. The question is whether or not they'll do such a thing.

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

fivegears4reverse posted:

You can liken this to Nintendo's hardware, in a way. I don't think they'll be getting out of the home console business just because the Wii U is doing badly now. They honestly had plenty of reason to do so with the GameCube but they stuck with it.

Alright, so we've once again reached the part of the Nintendo Thread Flowchart where someone thinks the WiiU's situation is anything like the GameCube's..

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich

TheScott2K posted:

Alright, so we've once again reached the part of the Nintendo Thread Flowchart where someone thinks the WiiU's situation is anything like the GameCube's..

Except I don't think it's like the GameCube? If anything it's a continuation of a trend that has stuck with Nintendo's home consoles since the end of the NES era, only interrupted by the Wii.

I do think they COULD turn things around to be at that level, but they'd have to forsake easier profit margins to do it. Nintendo dropped the GC to a hundred bucks and still only managed to sell 22 million units worldwide. They'd have to do the same for the Wii U, I'd think. They'd also need to start getting more games out quicker. They'd have to spend a lot of money to get the manpower in order to get games out faster, and they'd have to suck up the brunt of price drops simultaneously. That's a lot of money to let go of on something that's having such a rough time out the gate.

Spiffo
Nov 24, 2005

fivegears4reverse posted:

Man, if this ran true with Nintendo franchises not named Metroid (and maybe even then!), Mario Kart should have died after 64/Super Circuit/Double Dash/DS/Wii/7. I don't have a lot of kind things to say about the Wii U, but you can't deny just how well Nintendo games do. A stumble for the franchise like Sticker Star sold 2 million? Most games don't even sell one million.

It's not the only factor, but it's still a factor. I mean, you can at least see the logic of "I didn't like the last game they did, maybe I'll hold off on the next one."

This rings especially true when they release several disappointing games in a row. We've been replaying Super Paper Mario and the game practically dares you to stop playing it through poor design decisions. It all adds up.

extremebuff
Jun 20, 2010

SilentD posted:

Also you aren't getting a true octocore desktop out side of dual socket xeons or a single socket on 2011 with an E5 xeon that retails for over 2grand (I have one). I highly doubt most people have these, as it's xeon pricing and utterly useless for anything outside a few applications. Your claim is along the lines of claiming people use TESLA + Quadro systems for gaming, doesn't really happen.

It was a joke. Working at computer stores and such in the past, people don't know jack poo poo about computers or the internet and what it has to offer.

The point of the post was that on a grand scale, the group of people that know how to emulate games is very small, and even within that "in-the-know" group plenty of people still purchase virtual console titles and the like.

That Fucking Sned
Oct 28, 2010

Spiffo posted:

It's not the only factor, but it's still a factor. I mean, you can at least see the logic of "I didn't like the last game they did, maybe I'll hold off on the next one."

This rings especially true when they release several disappointing games in a row. We've been replaying Super Paper Mario and the game practically dares you to stop playing it through poor design decisions. It all adds up.

Yeah, when a series gets a pretty bad entry, it's usually the game that comes out afterwards that suffers in sales. It's why Devil May Cry 2 sold so much better than DMC3.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

That loving Sned posted:

Yeah, when a series gets a pretty bad entry, it's usually the game that comes out afterwards that suffers in sales. It's why Devil May Cry 2 sold so much better than DMC3.

In that same series and to follow that point, DMC4 is the best seller in the franchise because it followed DMC3. The quality of the game that precedes it indicates the next's sales not the quality of the game itself when in a franchise.

DMC remake I got nothing because drat did that do terrible.

Edmund Honda
Sep 27, 2003

fivegears4reverse posted:

I do think they COULD turn things around to be at that level, but they'd have to forsake easier profit margins to do it. Nintendo dropped the GC to a hundred bucks and still only managed to sell 22 million units worldwide. They'd have to do the same for the Wii U, I'd think.

Last thing I heard they were losing money on every console sold, even before the $50 drop. Not a huge amount, but there's definitely no profit margin to reduce.

Dropping it to $99 or even $199 is pure fantasy, they won't go near that. Eating a >$100/console straight loss when they're planning on selling millions won't happen.

Spiffo
Nov 24, 2005

Barudak posted:

In that same series and to follow that point, DMC4 is the best seller in the franchise because it followed DMC3. The quality of the game that precedes it indicates the next's sales not the quality of the game itself when in a franchise.

DMC remake I got nothing because drat did that do terrible.

Well it's not the only factor. It's like "How do I know this game is fun and good? How much information do I have about this game?"

In the case of the DMC remake it was a new game by a new studio, and they gave us a whoooole lot of information about how bad it is beforehand. Like holy moley they gave fans of the series every reason to get away.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Barudak posted:

DMC remake I got nothing because drat did that do terrible.
DMC4 was horrible and they worked their asses off before launch to make sure even the diehards would run screaming.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011

Barudak posted:

In that same series and to follow that point, DMC4 is the best seller in the franchise because it followed DMC3. The quality of the game that precedes it indicates the next's sales not the quality of the game itself when in a franchise.

DMC remake I got nothing because drat did that do terrible.

DMC4 being released on two different consoles (and having a good PC port!) really did wonders for it. I mean, DMC3 was only on a single console and the PC port is universally regarded as awful.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Edmund Honda posted:

Last thing I heard they were losing money on every console sold, even before the $50 drop. Not a huge amount, but there's definitely no profit margin to reduce.

Dropping it to $99 or even $199 is pure fantasy, they won't go near that. Eating a >$100/console straight loss when they're planning on selling millions won't happen.

The argument I saw thrown out there most often was that Nintendo said the system broke even if someone bought a game separately, but I don't think Nintendo ever specified if it was one game of several.

I know that a massive price drop on the Wii U is pretty much fantasy at this point, but if the upcoming games fail to turn things around, that's literally the only course left for the system to even reach parity with the GC.

CapnAndy posted:

DMC4 was horrible and they worked their asses off before launch to make sure even the diehards would run screaming.

Are you sure you mean DMC4 and not DmC: gently caress You, This Is A Statement: The Game? 4 was pretty well received across the board despite having its own issues. The most recent game was horrible though.

Toady
Jan 12, 2009

Bovineicide posted:

This argument was really naive 15 years ago, and it still is today. Their handhelds print money, and they aren't going to give that up so they can make less money by paying Sony and Microsoft licensing fees. Neither of them have a viable mobile device for games right now, anyway. The iOS and Play stores are right out because few people play phone games outside of waiting rooms or the shitter. Also, the average age of a Steam user is way the gently caress out of their intended audience.

It all boils down to nerds on the internet whining that, "I can't play Mario and Pokemon on my Playstation, and that's not faaaaaaaair! :qq:" Meanwhile, Iwata and Co. are going to continue wiping their asses with $100 bills because a new set of Pokemon games comes out next month. Yes, the Wii-U is pretty hosed, but their handhelds aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I've seen this before, and I have to ask: why is it seen as "whining" or "crying" for people to speculate about third-party development? Nobody called it unfair. At most, it's been said that it would be convenient to not have to buy a console just for one or two games. I've never understood why the topic crosses a red line for some people.

thefncrow
Mar 14, 2001

fivegears4reverse posted:

The argument I saw thrown out there most often was that Nintendo said the system broke even if someone bought a game separately, but I don't think Nintendo ever specified if it was one game of several.

Reggie did an interview shortly after launch where he said they'd recoup after a single game sale, but then Nintendo had to go back to that newspaper and tell them that Reggie was mistaken. They wouldn't reveal where the break-even point was and would only say that it was more than 1 game.

EDIT: Quoted the wrong post.

thefncrow fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 3, 2013

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.
Just curious, does anyone know how many PS2s have sold in 2013?

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


There were probably some new units sitting around in overstock, but I think they stopped making them last year so probably not many.

Nyeehg
Jul 14, 2013

Grimey Drawer
I was recently directed to an article by Emily Rogers discussing Nintendo's current problems with negative branding. It's a bit long (and well worth reading) so here's some highlights:

Emily Rodgers posted:


Word association is powerful. When certain words with negative connotations are associated with your product or brand, they can significantly damage your product’s image and reputation. These words become associated with your product after they are repeated over a long extent of time. For example: “Nintendo = kiddy” or “Wii brand = Weak graphics”.
There is an old saying: If people hear something repeated enough times, they may start believing it.

[...]

It doesn’t matter if there is any truth behind [consumers perception of the] Wii. For example, you could be a person who plays your Wii/Wii U every day. Consumer perception is not (always) about the facts or the truth. Consumer perception is about…well…perception. If enough people around you are saying something, then your perception becomes the new reality. For example, the reality is you could list a ton of M rated GameCube games, but the perception is GameCube was a “kiddy/toy” console that lacked M rated games for adults. Perception defeats reality.

[...]

Would a consumer want to touch a Wii U when they keep hearing words like, “Dead”, “Panic”, “Disaster”, and “Crisis” for two straight years? No, those words will scare consumers away. Those words sound like a plot from a Michael Bay film.
These words can inflict permanent damage to the Wii U brand even after price cuts and strong first party games are released.


She also provides a chronological list of articles discussing the Wii U which used words with negative connotations (weak, struggles, Lack of (games, power, marketing, third party support, innovation, DLC support) etc) used to describe the console within the headlines. I knew it was bad but seeing how quickly the Wii's negative press snowballed in one article is an eyeopener.

For me the open question is what can Nintendo do to reverse the current connotations of the brand (if anything)? I know some people have suggested dropping the brand entirely but that would probably alienate the few who currently support the Wii U.

On a separate note, this came up earlier:

Edmund Honda posted:

From Nintendo's very own financial report the Wii's lifetime tie in ratio is 8.7:1, as of June this year; Sony and Microsoft both appear to only quote total software sales when they hit a milestone.

[...]

The DS and 3DS being down at 6.1:1 and 3.3:1 respectively is more interesting.

edit: Gamecube ended at 9.6:1, which kinda implies that tie in rates are unrelated to overall console success. Oh well!

What do those ratio's mean? I had a look at the PDF but I'm not sure how you generated those ratios.

I know I'm probably missing something incredibly obvious :saddowns:

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

"Perception defeats reality" is a pretty common thing. It's also come up earlier in this thread when people complained about how Nintendo never ever releases new IPs when... well, it's demonstrably false. You're also seeing it happen with the X-Box One where the earlier kerfuffle has tainted basically the entire launch even after tremendous 180s on Microsoft's behalf. Very few people are willing to actually look beyond the overall message to the truth beneath, which is why negative press can be so immensely damaging, especially in the age of the internet. All it takes is Kotaku or whoever posting one clickbait thing and it becomes known as "truth" simply through pure repetition as hundreds of websites cite it and link back to a single source.

The only thing you can do is market, and market hard. The problem with altering your message is that customers are not prone to changing their minds once they've made a decision, no matter what you do. You need immensely strong marketing pushes to alter the public perception once it was set and Nintendo just isn't doing that. Even Microsoft, which is doing that, is having trouble getting their name brand back on track. First impressions are really important and Nintendo bungled theirs.

Nintendo honestly doesn't seem to grasp this concept, which is a problem because they really need to staunch the bleeding. The fact that they were able to revive the 3DS through similar means seems to have caused them to think it will work for the Wii as well, while they ignore that the 3DS needed a lot of marketing and press, as well as Sony completely cornholing the Vita at launch, in order to recover.

It doesn't help that the video game community is overwhelmingly negative and will latch onto negative stories far more than positive ones, and the Wii U is a very juicy negative article. This thread alone is proof of that. (See also the X-Box One thread for another case of negativity feeding upon itself.) Once you get negative press started, it doesn't stop, no matter what you do, even if it's based off false information. (And the Wii U negativity isn't based off false information.) If you lose control over your messaging early, it becomes infinitely harder to recover from that.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 3, 2013

Jimbo Jaggins
Jul 19, 2013
That article is a lot of words and pop psychology to say 'people are saying negative things about Wii U so people view it negatively'. I'm gonna go ahead and say that Wii U's brand issues are not too significant a factor in why it's not selling. These things are being said for a reason.

fivegears4reverse
Apr 4, 2007

by R. Guyovich

ImpAtom posted:

The only thing you can do is market, and market hard.

Again, another indicator that Nintendo simply doesn't pay attention to what the competition does: the PS3, by any stretch of the imagination, was a disaster coming off of the absurdly successful PS2. To turn that around, Sony had to spend inordinate amounts of money on marketing. They were aggressive about it. They changed their entire marketing approach. They remade the console's image from the ground up. They managed to turn it from being the overpriced console with the Spiderman font on the side to the console whose ads you saw people talking about EVERYWHERE online. They were on the verge of turning the whole brand irrelevant in the space of a single generation, but instead scrapped for every inch they got and now they're on a parity with the 360.

(Of course, with the Vita we can easily say that not even Sony pays attention to what it does right, because, well, The Vita :p)

I wouldn't attribute the Wii U's problems entirely on bad journalism or misperception, though. Nintendo hasn't marketed it well, true, and the press isn't helping, fact. There is no marketing spin in the world that will change third parties leaving the hardware behind, and the only way to push back the perception that the system isn't selling is to have it start selling.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Jimbo Jaggins posted:

That article is a lot of words and pop psychology to say 'people are saying negative things about Wii U so people view it negatively'. I'm gonna go ahead and say that Wii U's brand issues are not too significant a factor in why it's not selling. These things are being said for a reason.

Brand issues are basically the only reason something doesn't sell. No matter how much people complain about underpowered hardware or useless gimmicks, they would purchase a system if it was marketed properly. (The Wii is basically the Wii U's polar opposite in this regard. They marketed it surprisingly well and the end result was the underpowered gimmick system without a lot of games and little in the way of multiplatform ports sold gangbusters, largely because they put that poo poo on Oprah and made people want it.)

The problem is that the longer something doesn't sell, the harder it is to turn around. You need a hard concentrated marketing push and something to encourage people to give you a second shot. These things snowball. If you do well, you'll do better as time goes on barring a massive problem. If you do badly, you'll do worse. The longer you do poorly, the harder it is to reverse directions.

fivegears4reverse posted:

Again, another indicator that Nintendo simply doesn't pay attention to what the competition does: the PS3, by any stretch of the imagination, was a disaster coming off of the absurdly successful PS2. To turn that around, Sony had to spend inordinate amounts of money on marketing. They were aggressive about it. They changed their entire marketing approach. They remade the console's image from the ground up. They managed to turn it from being the overpriced console with the Spiderman font on the side to the console whose ads you saw people talking about EVERYWHERE online. They were on the verge of turning the whole brand irrelevant in the space of a single generation, but instead scrapped for every inch they got and now they're on a parity with the 360.

Yeah, and even Sony's incredible turnaround is a hard-fought battle. There are still countless people who still think Sony's online is a dangerous hellhole which will lose all your credit card information. Sony went from the brand leader to bottom of the barrel and have now just barely managed to pull themselves up. Even then the best thing that happened to them was Microsoft (and Nintendo) shooting themselves in the foot.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 3, 2013

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

ImpAtom posted:

There are still countless people who still think Sony's online is a dangerous hellhole which will lose all your credit card information.

A lot of sensitive information was compromised and they gave people free identity theft protection services, what do you expect people to think?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Astro7x posted:

A lot of sensitive information was compromised and they gave people free identity theft protection services, what do you expect people to think?

It was revealed later that most of it actually wasn't and everything they did was precautionary. At the last report, nobody had actually taken advantage of the services Sony provided and they had no cases of reported identity theft that could be tied to the Sony leak.

This is in fact exactly what I mean. "Sony had a massive loss of data!" is the thing that sticks around, not the later reports which clarify that the relative impact was nil. Some things were lost but... well, for example, Riot Games' League of Legends was compromised last month. They had user names, e-mail, first and last names and salted passwords, as well as hashed and salted credit card information compromised. Nobody is panicking and running away from LoL and Riot's response was a forced password change and a shrug.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Sep 3, 2013

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

ImpAtom posted:

It was revealed later that most of it actually wasn't and everything they did was precautionary. At the last report, nobody had actually taken advantage of the services Sony provided and they had no cases of reported identity theft that could be tied to the Sony leak.

This is in fact exactly what I mean. "Sony had a massive loss of data!" is the thing that sticks around, not the later reports which clarify that the relative impact was nil. Some things were lost but... well, for example, Riot Games' League of Legends was compromised last month. They had user names, e-mail, first and last names and salted passwords, as well as hashed and salted credit card information compromised. Nobody is panicking and running away from LoL and Riot's response was a forced password change and a shrug.

Bullshit... the card I used for PSN was conveniently used to buy a foreign plane ticket within a month after the security breach. There were various reports online of people that used a credit card for PSN and PSN only had their info stolen.

Of course there is no way to link it to Sony you see, because I am sure that the waiter of the restaurant I used the card at several months ago actually wrote down the numbers and finally decided now was the time to buy a plane ticket between two foreign countries halfway across the globe.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Astro7x posted:

Bullshit... the card I used for PSN was conveniently used to buy a foreign plane ticket within a month after the security breach. There were various reports online of people that used a credit card for PSN and PSN only had their info stolen.

There are reports online but apparently none of those people, including yourself, actually took Sony up on their insurance policy or reported it directly to them. People say a lot of things online and they're quick to blame poo poo on whatever seems most convenient.

To quote Sony themeselves:

quote:

As of today, the major credit card companies have not reported that they have seen any increase in the number of fraudulent credit card transactions as a result of the attack, and they have not reported to us any fraudulent transactions that they believe are a direct result of the intrusions described above.

Bad press is really really powerful. No amount of good games is going to help Nintendo overcome their bad press. They need to rethink their marketing and rethink it hard.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Sep 3, 2013

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
To add to that, it was in fact Microsoft where I had $50 in charges all for some Fifa dlc. I don't even like soccer.

Astro7x
Aug 4, 2004
Thinks It's All Real

ImpAtom posted:

There are reports online but apparently none of those people, including yourself, actually took Sony up on their insurance policy or reported it directly to them. People say a lot of things online and they're quick to blame poo poo on whatever seems most convenient.
Why would I report it to Sony? What the hell are they going to do? Credit card issuer reverses the charges and gives you a new card number. It ends with them.

SilentD
Aug 22, 2012

by toby

Toady posted:

I've seen this before, and I have to ask: why is it seen as "whining" or "crying" for people to speculate about third-party development? Nobody called it unfair. At most, it's been said that it would be convenient to not have to buy a console just for one or two games. I've never understood why the topic crosses a red line for some people.

Because the people who keep dragging it up almost always are people with other consoles that just want to play or two franchises on a playstation or xbox. It's also really silly since Nintendo is the only one of the three that manages to sell it's hardware at a profit, and has a stellar first party line up. You might as well say sony should just stick to making games through their various studios, or even Microsoft.

Jimbo Jaggins
Jul 19, 2013
The Wii U could've been marketed a hell of a lot better, sure. But you can't seriously think that's basically the only reason barely anyone wants one or few companies want to develop for it. The Wii U's marketing is a mistake in a long line of mistakes, it might be the straw that broke the camels back but it sure isn't the lead bars stuffed in the side pouches. I'd even go so far as to say that its not the marketing that was wrong for the product, more that the product itself was wrong for the market.

Jimbo Jaggins
Jul 19, 2013
EDIT: Double post

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Jimbo Jaggins posted:

The Wii U could've been marketed a hell of a lot better, sure. But you can't seriously think that's basically the only reason barely anyone wants one or few companies want to develop for it. The Wii U's marketing is a mistake in a long line of mistakes, it might be the straw that broke the camels back but it sure isn't the lead bars stuffed in the side pouches.

No, I really do think that.

Third party developers don't want to develop for it because it isn't selling. That is the only reason. If it was selling they would develop for it, no matter how underpowered or weak it was. Nintendo didn't help by not approaching the third parties, mind you, but they would go where the money was. Nintendo gambled it would be them and were wrong.

People don't want one because they have no reason to want one, which is largely the marketing's fault. People are going to buy the PS4 and One on launch day despite their early lineups being largely multiplaform games and low-quality exclusives because both companies have successful convinced people they need to buy the system DAY ONE instead of waiting for the inevitable year and a half it will take for them to becoming the dominant platforms. This will snowball because the more people have a system, the more worthwhile it is to develop for it and the more people who will want to buy it.

Power and price are important, mind you, and in an equal situation, people will go for a more powerful and/or cheaper console, but that is also part of marketing. That is why Sony's PS4 price coup was such a masterstroke. The Wii U could have gone far with proper message control but it didn't even have basic competence.

The Wii U's marketing is a mess. It is full of brand confusion and inept message control. Even people who would predisposed to buying a Nintendo system just based on name brand were turned off because they didn't have any idea what it was, what it could do, or why they should want it. They still don't. The system has been out for a year and a half and people on internet message boards still think it is a Wii add-on or isn't out yet. That is remarkably terrible messaging. I'm not saying the Wii U would have been top of the heap with better marketing but it wouldn't be in the same position it is now.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Sep 3, 2013

Toady
Jan 12, 2009

SilentD posted:

Because the people who keep dragging it up almost always are people with other consoles that just want to play or two franchises on a playstation or xbox. It's also really silly since Nintendo is the only one of the three that manages to sell it's hardware at a profit, and has a stellar first party line up. You might as well say sony should just stick to making games through their various studios, or even Microsoft.

Yes, people don't think it's reasonable to buy a $250 console for one or two games. The Wii U is selling at a loss, and Nintendo has demonstrated an inability to develop first-party software on a timely basis or market properly. Naturally, there's going to be speculative conversation about the pros and cons of a third-party Nintendo.

thefncrow
Mar 14, 2001

Jimbo Jaggins posted:

The Wii U could've been marketed a hell of a lot better, sure. But you can't seriously think that's basically the only reason barely anyone wants one or few companies want to develop for it. The Wii U's marketing is a mistake in a long line of mistakes, it might be the straw that broke the camels back but it sure isn't the lead bars stuffed in the side pouches. I'd even go so far as to say that its not the marketing that was wrong for the product, more that the product itself was wrong for the market.

The reason third-parties aren't developing for it right now is because it's not selling.

The fact that the system is severely underpowered against PS4/Xbone isn't really relevant right now, because neither of those systems are out yet and even once they do come out it sounds like we're going to have a solid year or so of cross-gen development. With PS3/360 ports of everything still in the works, it's not all that difficult to port those to Wii U. The hardware being underpowered is a ticking time bomb, something that'll go off once cross-gen is dead and everyone moves full time to PS4/Xbone. But until then, you would expect that Wii U would be getting ports of everything, and it's not. Why? Because the install base is too small to justify even that small amount of effort.

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Supercar Gautier
Jun 10, 2006

Toady posted:

Yes, people don't think it's reasonable to buy a $250 console for one or two games.

This is just a rephrasing of the same old "I would like it better than the way things are now, therefore it would be a good business decision", disregarding the rocky path from point A to point B.

You can envision the perfect world of gaming all you like, but it's not in every company's interests to achieve that for you if it means setting an entire arm of their business on fire.

Supercar Gautier fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 4, 2013

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