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Imma go ahead and guess the first one, though it's been a bit since I've looked at the ol' Mage.
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Sep 4, 2013 08:02
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madadric posted:It could be lack of 'control' they see in the game. Because the rules aren't clearly defined on what the particular consequences of an action will be, the player may not be able to "plan" for it by constructing their character a certain way. Mastery of the rules in DW does not ensure success. DW isn't really even interested in the difficulty of a given task, its interested it he danger and consequences of the task. Yeah I think the lack of control is a big part of it. One of my friends recently played DW for the first time and I asked him how it went, he said he felt he didn't have enough options for character customizing, that he wanted skills and that he wanted to use minis. Now, I could see wanting to use minis because combat can get a bit confusing, but that's an easy fix; go grab some minis. The other stuff, either the guy running the game didn't explain it well, or he just didn't get that you define your character through the fiction, if you want your character to have a skill at something they have it.
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Sep 4, 2013 09:58
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I will admit that's one flaw I see with Dungeon World, compared to some of the other *World hacks that I seen. For a level 1 character, there is very little mechanical customization customization other than flavor. I can't really pick what moves I want, where as most other *World hacks let new characters pick a couple moves from their list right away. That said, Dungeon World playbooks get more customized later on, the beginnings are still a tiny bit lacking. Personally though, I'm actually quite grateful Skills have gone away. Never realized how much those got in the way of fun sometimes.
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Sep 4, 2013 12:54
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I usually let level 1 characters pick one advance for that reason - it's odd and not very fun that they went with not letting you pick any moves at level 1. This also has the benefit of making it so you always have as many advances as you have levels.
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Sep 4, 2013 13:00
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Also, it's a bit asymmetric that you tend to get 9-10 moves in the 2-5 bracket, and 9-10 moves in the 6-10 bracket, so in practice you usually pick 4 from the first list and 5 from the second. I like the idea of picking a bonus move at level 1. There are classes with more or less customisation in their starting moves, like the Fighter, Druid, IW's Captain and Mechanic, and so on. It should be noted though that a lot of DW character customisation at level 1 is in the fiction. The GM will ask your wizard "So are you part of a cabal of mages, or freelance? What does your staff look like, what does it do?" etc., and while a lot of other games do that, in DW it really matters, and will very often end up being a relevant part of the story or setting.
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Sep 4, 2013 13:05
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Boing posted:in DW it really matters, and will very often end up being a relevant part of the story or setting. This is a key thing, I think. 'Soft' character build choices still make a game-mechanical difference: they might affect whether doing something is a Defy Danger roll or not, for example. They just don't front-load the mechanic onto the build choice as you make it.
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Sep 4, 2013 13:27
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Ich posted:There are some differences of opinion about how Black Magic's two-targets (-1 damage) tag should work. Depends on the fiction and what makes sense. It also depends on if you think the spell is being cast at a group as a single entity, or as a series of individuals. If you're treating a group of enemies as a single large entity, I usually just describe damage divided by individual's hit points number if goblins or whatever getting destroyed by the spell or hack n slash. This is a great way to handle horde style enemies in general, minimal management as you just pour the baddies on until it makes sense fr them to retreat.
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Sep 4, 2013 14:51
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Yeah, one thing I’ve noticed about people who come from D&D is that they feel very limited by Dungeon World because they’re used to picking distinct moves from a massive list rather than having a vague set of moves that define just about everything. They have a tendency to think that their only options in combat are “attack with sword” or “attack with bow.”
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Sep 4, 2013 15:22
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I usually let level 1 characters pick one advance for that reason - it's odd and not very fun that they went with not letting you pick any moves at level 1. I ran two one-shots at a con last weekend and made sure that they made level 2 about half-way in, so they could get at least one advanced move and so they could actually get a benefit from going through the End of Session move. Same basic reasoning, but went a little different with it. I think in any ongoing games I run, I'll give an advanced move right at the start.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:29
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In a way you can consider your Race/Origin/Talent to be your level 1 move choice, can't you? Specifically in the case of talents and origins, where it's not "Oh you want to be a dwarf? You have this move." In most good classes, your origin gives you a lot of choice in how you're going to play it, as does your selection of starting gear.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:17
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To those of you who care about Inverse World things: About a month ago Mikan pointed out to me that we never actually named the world Inverse World takes place in. After literally hours of time wasted on random name and letter generators and discarding loads of cool names that didn't fit (goodbye, Leitmeitl and Wcyin), the Inverse World has an official name: Invells.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:40
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It's like a person with a French accent saying "Inverse". If I were to predict where you were going with that as I read it, I would have said it would be a reverse word or a palindrome.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:11
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gnome7 posted:To those of you who care about Inverse World things: About a month ago Mikan pointed out to me that we never actually named the world Inverse World takes place in. After literally hours of time wasted on random name and letter generators and discarding loads of cool names that didn't fit (goodbye, Leitmeitl and Wcyin), the Inverse World has an official name: Invells. So are you Svellin with pride yet 
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Sep 4, 2013 17:29
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So I ran Johnstone Metzger's DW1 Lair of the Uknown tonight, since I was missing two players. The two players that remained managed to completely fail to get any loot, but they did free the attack mushrooms, wake up the wyrdstone and get the goblins on the war footing, in a single session. They literally triggered every dungeon front in one go.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:17
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For the creative types in the thread, Grim World is accepting submissions to add to the finished book. You retain further publishing right to any of your submissions they use, and you get credited in the book next to your content.
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Sep 5, 2013 08:58
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I usually let level 1 characters pick one advance for that reason - it's odd and not very fun that they went with not letting you pick any moves at level 1. I think it's pretty obvious they went that route because first level ODnD characters didn't have any options. I kinda wonder what Dungeon World would look like if it wasn't trying so hard to replicate original DnD and instead was just trying to be a great Fantasy RPG. Boing posted:It should be noted though that a lot of DW character customisation at level 1 is in the fiction. The GM will ask your wizard "So are you part of a cabal of mages, or freelance? What does your staff look like, what does it do?" etc., and while a lot of other games do that, in DW it really matters, and will very often end up being a relevant part of the story or setting. This is what I think my friend missed, possibly because his DM didn't explain it, or because he's so used to old school RPGs that he was looking for a list of things. Which is weird because this is the type of guy who writes a full page background for characters he's only going to play in a one shot game.
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Sep 5, 2013 09:10
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Having dipped my toes in Monsterhearts for a while now, I'm also on board with the idea of giving Dungeon World characters one choice of advanced moves from the 2-5 list. Granted, pretty much all characters in Dungeon World have some choices to make as part of their level 1 moves, but I do also kinda wish there were more character-building choices at first level. That said, I do agree with a number of points expressed here: race moves sort of fill the void of character customization options at level 1, in addition to which the fiction you build around your character is huge in Dungeon World. Just looking at a 1st-level Dungeon World character sheet will only tell me about what sorts of things they'll be good at when interacting with the game's mechanics, but it won't inform me about what sorts of stuff they'll be going for in the game and what their place in the fiction is.
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Sep 5, 2013 12:18
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Bucnasti posted:I kinda wonder what Dungeon World would look like if it wasn't trying so hard to replicate original DnD and instead was just trying to be a great Fantasy RPG. This is an interesting question to me. I'm coming to Dungeon World relatively late--it's been out for a while and there are a ton of player-made playbooks for it that distance it quite a bit from oD&D. But looking at the original rule book you can definitely see the ways it's trying to replicate the feeling of not just roleplaying through a good fantasy story but through an old-school dungeon-crawlin' game. Simply removing Vancian magic changes things pretty dramatically, at least for me, in distancing it from its D&D roots.
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Sep 5, 2013 15:35
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Bucnasti posted:I kinda wonder what Dungeon World would look like if it wasn't trying so hard to replicate original DnD and instead was just trying to be a great Fantasy RPG. Probably a lot more like a Apocalypse World.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:04
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So, I know DW is one of those games where you're supposed to let things happen, but is it okay to draw out a dungeon beforehand? I like making maps; it's one of my favorite things to do as a DM. Also, what has been covered by playbooks thus far? Are there any major character archetypes/classes that are absent?
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Sep 5, 2013 20:44
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Elderbean posted:So, I know DW is one of those games where you're supposed to let things happen, but is it okay to draw out a dungeon beforehand? I like making maps; it's one of my favorite things to do as a DM. There is no problem preparing beforehand, just be prepared for the potential that they may ignore the dungeon altogether, or start putting holes in the walls.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:51
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Elderbean posted:So, I know DW is one of those games where you're supposed to let things happen, but is it okay to draw out a dungeon beforehand? I like making maps; it's one of my favorite things to do as a DM. Depends on the group, some groups do better not having as much input or like having more concrete things to follow. A lot of really, really good DW sessions people have had were just using old school modules from 1e onward. The system works great for everything in between. quote:Also, what has been covered by playbooks thus far? Are there any major character archetypes/classes that are absent? Honestly there are waaaaay too many playbooks out there, and most of them either A) aren't good for a lot of reasons, and B) cover a lot of similar design spaces. You're best off going with the ones in this thread posted in the initial OP as a start, and it really does cover most archetype bases. Everything else can be covered by taking a multiclass move.
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Sep 5, 2013 20:51
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I pretty much always go into a session with a premade dungeon from any era of D&D in hand, and then use it as a basis from which to improvise. For instance, I just recently ran "the Wild Dragon's Den" from the black box basic D&D Dragon Dens boxed set. "Draw Maps, Leave Blanks" should really just be "Draw Maps, Draw Over Maps".
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Sep 5, 2013 21:12
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Also, I wrote up this little idea for a city/dungeon if anyone wants to use it. I might map it out and create some moves for it in the future. I had a fun idea for a fictional city/dungeon, I felt like sharing just in case any other tabletop gamers want to use it. It’s a little long, but here it goes. The Machine City The Machine City, long considered a rumor, has recently been unearthed itself. The people who created the Machine City evidently died off ages ago, yet it remains standing as a testament to their ingenuity. The city proper consists of 3 massive rotating platforms, atop each platform is a large superstructure constructed from a latticework of gears, pumps, pulleys, and balconies. At random intervals, the platforms rotate, and as they do the entire city transforms into a new arrangement. New paths are forged while old ones are severed, buildings shrink or grow in size to accommodate new connections, and balconies spin into place to form massive mechanical courtyards. The only consistency is a large clock tower fixed in the center of the superstructure. The tower serves both to tell the time and to display symbols that seemingly indicate what the current arrangement is. Despite being unoccupied for thousands of years, The Machine City is immaculate. Every surface is polished, the glass is free of mold, and the machinery that drives the superstructure is in good working order, save for one platform, Platform Number Three. Platform Number Three has been severed from the rest of the city. The metal has given to rust, the glass lies in ruins, and the latticework of bridges and causeways have buckled underneath their own weight. What little remains of the main structure was sealed off long ago. It is completely inaccessible from the outside, yet something can be heard stirring within the walls. What happened to the city? Who lived there? Why did they build this place? What’s inside Platform Number Three?
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Sep 5, 2013 21:17
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Elderbean posted:So, I know DW is one of those games where you're supposed to let things happen, but is it okay to draw out a dungeon beforehand? I like making maps; it's one of my favorite things to do as a DM. I can't imagine going into a game without a dungeon map already made, but maybe you're just very good at improvising dungeons. Most people will want to take a map with them, and then detail it lightly - the kind of creatures that live there and the kind of treasures they might have, and maybe place a couple of setpiece monsters/traps/puzzles in. Basically, it's fine to have a map, but leave blanks. Elderbean posted:Also, what has been covered by playbooks thus far? Are there any major character archetypes/classes that are absent? Pretty much all of the content made here is in the OP.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:36
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My mage player, who has the clock focus, just did this...quote:[mage] thinks for a moment. I laughed for a good while, talk about golden opportunity, this could potentially end the adventure. So I thought about my options; I could turn them into children, or make them old and give them -1 ongoing. However the current quest ends in a temple where a cult stole power from the gods, so I decide that the mage, who has been using magic to prolong his life, has angered death by trying to prolong other people as well. So as payment for the mage's transgressions, his allies both have a death sentence now and will die in 3 sunsets if they don't steal the power of the gods for themselves and undo the curse. Talk about motivation!
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Sep 5, 2013 21:40
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As an aside to "use old dungeons/modules", does anyone have recommendations or a "top 10" of old school modules? I didn't get into D&D until the tail end of 2e/beginning of 3e, so I'd love to know some of the really good Basic/1e adventure modules that would work great as a starting point in Dungeon World. I don't trust OSR/EnWorld people for opinions on this.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:40
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Fenarisk posted:As an aside to "use old dungeons/modules", does anyone have recommendations or a "top 10" of old school modules? I didn't get into D&D until the tail end of 2e/beginning of 3e, so I'd love to know some of the really good Basic/1e adventure modules that would work great as a starting point in Dungeon World. The Lost City is really cool. Really cool.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:46
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I wish I had more input to give, I only just recently started using non-4e dungeons. A DW Tomb of Horrors could be hilarious.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:55
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Tomb of Horrors is deadly due to a distinct lack of information, not knowing is literally what kills you. The way dungeon world works you are presented with an obstacle and react to it, almost always you are given a chance to act or a choice to decide. A group of DW characters would have an easier time surviving the Tomb of Horrors than any dnd character ever did. Excluding maybe 4e, since there in so save or die effects or insta-kill.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:04
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When you explore the Tomb of Horrors the GM may make as many hard moves as they like whenever they feel like it. You wanted to come in here, buddy.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:13
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I'll second The Lost City, particularly for DW, and also suggest Isle of Dread. They've got factions, weird societies that are sketched thin enough to make things up about them, and fairly nice maps.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:21
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Yeah, Isle of Dread is the poo poo for DW.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:44
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I'll second The Lost City, particularly for DW, and also suggest Isle of Dread. They've got factions, weird societies that are sketched thin enough to make things up about them, and fairly nice maps. Seconding Isle of Dread, especially if you can beg, borrow, or steal the updated Isle map they put in Dungeon a long time back, sometime in 3.5e.
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Sep 5, 2013 22:47
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but it may actually come up in a game I'm running. Where do you usually draw the line between Cast a Spell and Ritual for the Mage? Both are really open-ended, and I think the point is that Ritual takes over when a spell is too big for Cast a Spell. I'd really appreciate examples of spells that should be one or the other, though, if anyone has any.
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Sep 5, 2013 23:56
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Harrow posted:I'm sure this has been asked before, but it may actually come up in a game I'm running. That's a drat fine question. Off the top of my head, I'd say Ritual for anything permanent or far away, but I'm eager to see some other, better thought out, answers. EDIT: On a related note, I've always felt that Ritual made Enchanter somewhat redundant. I mean, actually, the existence of Enchanter pretty much limits Ritual to not making magic items. Ich fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 00:32
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Harrow posted:I'm sure this has been asked before, but it may actually come up in a game I'm running. I think this question's come up once per three pages for a while now? I'd usually make "Cast a spell" for doing something right now, in the moment or a few seconds, while "ritual" is doing something that takes time, setup, maybe even long enough to make camp.
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Sep 6, 2013 01:21
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I'd be inclined to let the mage himself choose. The ritual never fails, but always has a price; while a spell has a chance for failure and consequences. How important is this spell to you? do you have the time to make it a ritual or do you want to risk casting the 'fast' version?
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Sep 6, 2013 04:19
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Lemon Curdistan posted:So I ran Johnstone Metzger's DW1 Lair of the Uknown tonight, since I was missing two players. The two players that remained managed to completely fail to get any loot, but they did free the attack mushrooms, wake up the wyrdstone and get the goblins on the war footing, in a single session. They literally triggered every dungeon front in one go. I'm really curious how others have played the NPCs in DW1. Did NPCs align themselves with the players at all? Did an independent NPC party stir the pot in the dungeon back door with the goblins or phase spiders due to advancements of that particular front? When I ran it, it was as a quick one-shot that started at the front door, so there wasn't a lot of noodling about in town to get to know the NPCs.
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Sep 6, 2013 05:41
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Harrow posted:I'm sure this has been asked before, but it may actually come up in a game I'm running. In terms of scale? Cast a Spell can allay a consequence, or create an opening for someone else to solve a problem. If you're trying to clear something up all in one go, it needs the time and consequences of a Ritual.
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Sep 6, 2013 07:22
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