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In a related matter, I just played Ethiopia for the first time and was blown away by how good Steles are. You get a huge jump on the faith market and a smaller culture boost since I always delayed my monument for a shrine anyway.
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Sep 4, 2013 12:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Also another diplomacy tip: Try not to completely eliminate other civs. The way diplomacy penalties work is that every time you take someone's city, the AI thinks of you as more of a warmonger. The less cities a civ has, the higher the penalty, with the final city being a fairly big penalty. So leaving them with a handful of useless cities is smart, often times an AI civ will swoop in and finish them off, taking the brunt of the warmonger hit. Keep in mind that a domination victory only requires you to take the capital cities, the rest doesn't matter. Capital cities are also usually on prime real estate, regularly having 2 or more luxuries and a decent chance at strategic resources, as well as generally favorable surrounding terrain. As an added bonus, capitals are likely where most, if not all of the wonders a civ has built are located. As well, they often have many other useful buildings and are also quite often packed to the gills with art writing and music. Making a quick, decisive run on a capital, often ignoring other cities in your path can also help avoid warmonger penalties in several ways. Declining peace offers gives you a warmonger hit, so the quicker you get the war done the better. If you can smash a good amount of an enemy's military and take their capital, you can quite often sue for peace and get the AI to take the deal the same turn you sack that poo poo. Not taking lesser cities saves you time, happiness loss (burning down a sizable town can take a while) and in general you'll feel like less of a monster. If a city would leave your new capital cut off from connecting to the rest of your empire, by all means, puppet or raze it, but try to keep that to a minimum. Seizing a capital is quite often a death blow to a civ. Either they will never recover to become significant again, or the AI will smell blood in the water and do your work for you. A good use of this tactic is if you're going for a cultural victory. If there is another cultural powerhouse about, taking their capital will cripple their culture/tourism output and make yours stronger. Win/win!
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Sep 4, 2013 12:34
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Man, I just cannot get a culture win at Emperor level. It feels like i can get dom wins no trouble, so my strategy going in was to just do my normal thing but also go with france and get myself some art storage units with enough military to just ruin the day. Got dumped on an Australia-type continent with a hyper-aggressive Washington that bum-rushed me with something like 25 total units (no Terra Cotta) and I hold that off with 2 pikes, 2 Composites, and a Knight. Get some Trebuchets and ethnically cleanse that fucker off my Island and figure I'll just rush tech and get Uffzi/Lourve then focus on amassing a huge rear end navy to gently caress with whoever's gonna be "that guy" who buys up all the city states to hold off the culture victory. Except that this time it's Babylon and he's somehow a full age ahead of me despite being even with me when he tried to colonize me, and fuckin' Korea with 800 score somehow just hit Information age while everyone but Babylon is Industrial. I still might have a chance because Babylon barely had any navy and most of his land army isn't upgraded, but I have the feeling no matter what I do Korea's going to end up blasting off into space before I can do anything about it.
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Sep 4, 2013 12:34
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Celestatiune posted:Man, I just cannot get a culture win at Emperor level. It feels like i can get dom wins no trouble, so my strategy going in was to just do my normal thing but also go with france and get myself some art storage units with enough military to just ruin the day. Got dumped on an Australia-type continent with a hyper-aggressive Washington that bum-rushed me with something like 25 total units (no Terra Cotta) and I hold that off with 2 pikes, 2 Composites, and a Knight. Get some Trebuchets and ethnically cleanse that fucker off my Island and figure I'll just rush tech and get Uffzi/Lourve then focus on amassing a huge rear end navy to gently caress with whoever's gonna be "that guy" who buys up all the city states to hold off the culture victory. That makes sense. Babylon and Korea are both early tech powerhouses, with advantages that can get them far ahead in tech. Getting a great scientist 20 turns into the game (and 50% faster generation on top) or huge science boosts for science buildings and wonders being built in the capital can do crazy poo poo. If you haven't played as either give it a shot.
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Sep 4, 2013 12:43
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Dammit Ormus, stop building a farm over that coal! I need it!  I can't keep posting 200 gold to rebuild the mine!
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Sep 4, 2013 15:29
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Deep Winter posted:Dammit Ormus, stop building a farm over that coal! I need it! You don't need coal for anything except the ability to build factories. Once the factory is built, it doesn't need support.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:34
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Jedit posted:You don't need coal for anything except the ability to build factories. Once the factory is built, it doesn't need support. Ironclads aren't bad, although not really necessary unless you're tied up in a naval war during their window of availability.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:43
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Jedit posted:You don't need coal for anything except the ability to build factories. Once the factory is built, it doesn't need support. Yeah, it was for factories. They would redo the farm before the factory could finish, canceling the factory  e: vvvv they do. It's just a small annoyance when trying to build three factories. In other news, the patronage "full tree" bonus would be a lot more helpful if I got something besides great generals and khans. Deep Winter fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 16:28
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Deep Winter posted:Yeah, it was for factories. They would redo the farm before the factory could finish, canceling the factory Pausing. Pretty sure you keep the hammers that you invested into it.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:35
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If convenient, you could plant a unit on the coal tile next time so the worker can't go putting a farm on it.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:56
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Deep Winter posted:Yeah, it was for factories. They would redo the farm before the factory could finish, canceling the factory Holy poo poo you can get khans from that policy?! I knew you could get merchants of venice from it but khans are so overpowered that I just assumed they wouldn't give you them.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:02
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Goddammit. I'm playing as Venice, I've got a huge heap of gold and several great galleasses waiting for upgrades. I have a tile with 2 iron near my capital, but my only other prospect (barring trades) is a city-state. I've bought it, but the 6 iron tile is just outside its borders. You can't buy tiles for a puppeted city and the game has selected four blank ocean tiles for cultural growth.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:29
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I just noticed that the religious tolerance policy works with just a pantheon bonus, including your own. For example if you grab desert folklore you'll be making +2 faith from every desert tile for as long as the city is following your religion and has at least one citizen still on the pantheon.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:36
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Also another diplomacy tip: Try not to completely eliminate other civs. The way diplomacy penalties work is that every time you take someone's city, the AI thinks of you as more of a warmonger. The less cities a civ has, the higher the penalty, with the final city being a fairly big penalty. So leaving them with a handful of useless cities is smart, often times an AI civ will swoop in and finish them off, taking the brunt of the warmonger hit. Keep in mind that a domination victory only requires you to take the capital cities, the rest doesn't matter. I had an interesting occurrence - after squashing my neighbor Egypt and leaving him with 1 city that had half its territory and its only luxury taken by a citadel, I left him alone to avoid the warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization. Shortly after our treaty expired, Ramsses, with a single worker and a single rifleman, decided that death was better than dishonor and declared war on me, basically saying that though he had no chance, he felt it was his only option since was going to destroy him eventually anyways (probably true). It forced me to eat a big warmonger penalty that had basically the rest of the world angry at me for a long time, so I imagined as he went his tomb saying "worth it".
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Sep 4, 2013 18:51
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Coordinator010 posted:E: Dumb question - do people build a monument first when going for 4 city tradition? On one hand you get your first couple cultural choices a lot sooner, but you're also wasting the benefit of the free cultural building from tradition. Not a dumb question at all. If I plan to go Tradition, I will almost always delay the monument and go for a faster scout/warrior/granary (steal a worker) or just build one. Obviously get a shrine if you are going religious. Not only do you save the hammers on the monument, you save the gold cost upkeep of the monument as well. Depending on food and immediate production, scout/warrior/shrine 3 pop settler also works with this strategy, and allows you a really early second city, and lets your borders naturally expand before your first worker, since your monument comes pretty late. Unless you are rushing to Drama and are going for a cultural victory, don't bother, amps are a very low priority building since they produce very little culture themselves, and you want to be in the Medieval Era before you start cranking up the culture because you need the extra food from farms due to the lack of growth from specialists. Generally speaking the faster you get your first four cities out, the better off you are long term, assuming you aren't sacrificing early growth via happiness for too long. If you go Tradition and plan to hard build Settlers, you ideally want to do so before you get Landed Elite (+2 food 10 percent growth in Capital) because that growth is wasted for those turns. These seem like small details but if you continue to play that way you will just naturally develop a more efficient play style and habits, like settling specialists on sheep/deer/horses/cows (Tiles with higher base yield but worse late game improvements). This will free you to think longer term, which is probably the most crucial part of higher difficulties.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:29
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double negative posted:I had an interesting occurrence - after squashing my neighbor Egypt and leaving him with 1 city that had half its territory and its only luxury taken by a citadel, I left him alone to avoid the warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization. Why take the warmonger hit? You were under no obligation to commit genocide, just kill his Rifleman then sit there levelling up your Artillery on the city until you can negotiate a peace or get bored.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:44
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double negative posted:I had an interesting occurrence - after squashing my neighbor Egypt and leaving him with 1 city that had half its territory and its only luxury taken by a citadel, I left him alone to avoid the warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization. There is no specific warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization, BTW. Not anymore. Instead it all works on the same sliding scale where there's a warmonger hit based on how many cities total are on the map (the more, the less the hit) and how many cities the civ you're taking out has left. Taking every city but one will still incur a pretty hefty penalty. Taking the last city usually won't be as bad as the old genocide hit but it will usually be close. It will often be as bad or worse in the early game and not as bad in the late game. Anyways in that case I would have just laughed the guy off, killed a few of his units, then settled for a peace deal that gave you whatever money he had.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:46
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The best part is he'd probably declare on you every 20 turns or so, so you could repeatedly shake him down for a few gold and some laughs.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:51
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 Freedom.  Fakeedit: haha after I took this Zulu wanted to be special and went autocracy. Instant -29 total happiness. Deep Winter fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 21:11
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dude, tables. Use timg tags please
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Sep 4, 2013 21:17
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Deep Winter posted:Freedom. Even worse, you just made it onto a dozen goons' ignore lists. Timg that poo poo! Also, there's a screen shot function in game, why the hell are you using your cell phone to take a picture?
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Sep 4, 2013 21:18
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There is no specific warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization, BTW. Not anymore. Instead it all works on the same sliding scale where there's a warmonger hit based on how many cities total are on the map (the more, the less the hit) and how many cities the civ you're taking out has left. Taking every city but one will still incur a pretty hefty penalty. Taking the last city usually won't be as bad as the old genocide hit but it will usually be close. It will often be as bad or worse in the early game and not as bad in the late game. He refused to peace for anything, even after I dragged it out for a while and eliminated everything he had outside of his city, which is why I found it so amusing. I was running away with the game at the point so it wasn't a thing to eat the hit, but I didn't realize the AI would commit suicide like that and even acknowledge the hopelessness of its situation.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:24
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Whoops! Sorry. My computer doesn't have internet, I use my phone to.post. Imgur isn't actually loading for me right now, so I can't see the image I posted, and I forgot my camera takes high resolution images. Sorry again! How about that Shaka, right guys? What a card!
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Sep 4, 2013 21:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There is no specific warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization, BTW. Not anymore. Instead it all works on the same sliding scale where there's a warmonger hit based on how many cities total are on the map (the more, the less the hit) and how many cities the civ you're taking out has left. Taking every city but one will still incur a pretty hefty penalty. Taking the last city usually won't be as bad as the old genocide hit but it will usually be close. It will often be as bad or worse in the early game and not as bad in the late game. Not to mention that the Warmonger penalty finally decays. I'm keeping Harun around this game just because I can, we'll be bros by about 200 AD.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:29
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Deep Winter posted:How about that Shaka, right guys? What a card! I always think back fondly on the game where Shaka was peaceful and went freedom while Haile Selassie was a war-mongering autocratic bastard. poo poo was bizarre.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:34
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There is no specific warmonger hit for wiping out a civilization, BTW. Not anymore. The White Dragon posted:Not to mention that the Warmonger penalty finally decays. I'm keeping Harun around this game just because I can, we'll be bros by about 200 AD. Oh good, I can feel better about killing Ethiopia now. Wouldn't stop trying to send settlers out. I kind of wish the capitulate option still existed, and that it let you demand no settlers near me.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:08
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double negative posted:He refused to peace for anything, even after I dragged it out for a while and eliminated everything he had outside of his city, which is why I found it so amusing. I was running away with the game at the point so it wasn't a thing to eat the hit, but I didn't realize the AI would commit suicide like that and even acknowledge the hopelessness of its situation. Did you also reduce the HP of his city while having a melee unit within range? AIs will always concede if you're guaranteed to take their capital.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:34
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Pvt.Scott posted:I always think back fondly on the game where Shaka was peaceful and went freedom while Haile Selassie was a war-mongering autocratic bastard. poo poo was bizarre. Wait is Selassie not? Every game I've had Ethiopia show up they were hugely aggressive assholes and gave no fucks about wiping out greece, etc. All the games I had shaka or ghengis khan they were pretty much just by bros, too. Well not last game, but all the other ones!
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Sep 4, 2013 22:45
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Synnr posted:Wait is Selassie not? Every game I've had Ethiopia show up they were hugely aggressive assholes and gave no fucks about wiping out greece, etc. Haile's default values are towards defense, religion and hating warmongers. Of course those numbers (generally 1-10) can then shift by up to two points either way when the game is started. Haile has an 8 for defense and 5 for offense, and warmonger hate of 8, with other areas weighted towards favoring improving his existing cities. He does have a lot of 5 values, which means he can go in a lot of other directions. It's just that his UA and UU are both defensive and his UB is for faith. Most games I've had, he's been p chill, and of course Shaka is set up to be balls to the wall aggressive most of the time. It does seem Haile is likely to go after warmongers, but in the game I mentioned the rest of the world was a peaceful hug box. Here's the chart. Note Gandhi's 12 nuke score. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 23:30
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Pvt.Scott posted:Here's the chart. Note Gandhi's 12 nuke score. For ignores city-states, is the higher the number the more likely they are to ignore?
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Sep 4, 2013 23:38
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Pvt.Scott posted:Haile's default values are towards defense, religion and hating warmongers. Of course those numbers (generally 1-10) can then shift by up to two points either way when the game is started. Haile has an 8 for defense and 5 for offense, and warmonger hate of 8, with other areas weighted towards favoring improving his existing cities. He does have a lot of 5 values, which means he can go in a lot of other directions. It's just that his UA and UU are both defensive and his UB is for faith. Most games I've had, he's been p chill, and of course Shaka is set up to be balls to the wall aggressive most of the time. Huh, maybe that explains it. I'm big on a "secure our borders, get those location snipers out of here and expand to a logical bottleneck" period shortly after my first like 3 cities start chugging along. Perhaps I'm just a warmonger at heart! Lord knows my memories of gandhi from earlier games forces me to do the needful when I start pulling ahead of the AI pack. Also I guess even the AI hates Greece, what a jerk. Peas and Rice posted:For ignores city-states, is the higher the number the more likely they are to ignore? I don't even see that, but from how the rest of the chart gets worded, I would assume so. Greater likely hood of not bothering to build influence, I guess Synnr fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 23:56
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Peas and Rice posted:For ignores city-states, is the higher the number the more likely they are to ignore? That is an excellent question. Maybe it means how likely it is that they won't try to do quests? That seems a little weird for phrasing though. Lemme use some google fu and find out. I'm curious.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:02
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I wonder if there's a similar stat that controls how likely they are to attack city-states. I know Mongolia's is jacked up way high. ...and when I'm playing as Spain I know my own likelihood of attacking city-states goes up too if one of them has a Natural Wonder (which they often do).
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Sep 5, 2013 00:06
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I'm playing my first game since getting BNW as France. I am having so much fun stealing everyone's historical artifacts and shipping them back to Paris to make the greatest tourist trap in the world. I feel like the Great Works UI is kinda lovely though, it's hard for me to figure out what I need to swap with other civilizations in order to fulfill the theme bonuses.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:10
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Synnr posted:Also I guess even the AI hates Greece, what a jerk. Every game I've played against Greece the AI ends up shredding him, and he just looks so drat happy in his profile picture that I usually try to step in and help. I wish you could gift units to your friends who are at war without getting directly involved yourself, like you used to be able to in Civ 4.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:12
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Speedball posted:I wonder if there's a similar stat that controls how likely they are to attack city-states. I know Mongolia's is jacked up way high. Yeah, there's city-state conquest bias on that chart. Still can't find out exactly what the ignore city-state value does.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:14
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Peas and Rice posted:Every game I've played against Greece the AI ends up shredding him, and he just looks so drat happy in his profile picture that I usually try to step in and help. I guess I've never tried to do it, but I have noticed that you can have the gift unit option on your units in allied territory. I assume you have to have open borders and declaration of frienship, but not sure. I'll have to try my own Iran-Contra scandal next game.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:16
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Pvt.Scott posted:I guess I've never tried to do it, but I have noticed that you can have the gift unit option on your units in allied territory. I assume you have to have open borders and declaration of frienship, but not sure. I'll have to try my own Iran-Contra scandal next game. Oh, crazy, I figured it was something you could do on the Diplomacy screen, similar to how you can give units to city-states. I'll have to try that. Mostly because city-states keep gifting ME lovely units.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:18
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Pvt.Scott posted:I guess I've never tried to do it, but I have noticed that you can have the gift unit option on your units in allied territory. I assume you have to have open borders and declaration of frienship, but not sure. I'll have to try my own Iran-Contra scandal next game. I think it is just open borders. I noticed that as an option early on when I had a trireme passing through someone elses territory and it got stopped by a barbarian boat.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:21
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Speedball posted:I wonder if there's a similar stat that controls how likely they are to attack city-states. I know Mongolia's is jacked up way high. I call this the "Move aside and let me show you how it's done" effect. It also happens when I'm playing Inca (move aside and let me show you how to farm hills) and Dutch (move aside and let me how you how to farm floodplains).
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Sep 5, 2013 00:32
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