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Chris Gaines posted:I don't ever remember Austin using the Stone Cold Stunner in WCW. No of course not, but he did do seated three-quarter facelock jawbreakers in '94 as 'just a move'. (I'm sure he did one to Steamboat in their clash match in '94 but it is on the DVD so it isn't on youtube any more) But my point was invalid as I'm sure the Ace Crusher was before that anyway. I was just being an rear end poking fun at the notion of the Stunner being a copy of a move when it became far bigger then any of those other ones. 
algebra testes fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 07:45
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Today is the 18th anniversary of the first episode of Nitro 
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Sep 4, 2013 14:56
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In addition to the King of the Ring stuff, this weeks retro Observer has a big story on WWF suing WCW for trademark/gimmick infringement. Given that WCW was part of a big corporation, it's sort of shocking that Bischoff was basically allowed to just not give a poo poo about the charges and press on with the angle as planned. He got VERY lucky that the judge overseeing the suit was busy with organized crime and therefore didn't give a poo poo about wrestling so the hearing was pushed back until after Bash at the Beach. It's also hilarious reading how whiny Vince is about the whole thing considering he is really just getting a taste of his own dirty medicine from killing the territory days. Given that the last few of these newsletters have featured rumormongering on who the third man could be, it's hilarious and telling that Hogans name has never been brought up as a possibility. I can't wait to read the reaction after he turns. What was thought of as the true low point of the WWF from a bankruptcy standpoint? I'm assuming right before Montreal due to how desperate Vince was during that ordeal.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:26
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Titan was never going to get an injunction against WCW to stop the nWo angle. Most of the things they were alleging in that part of the lawsuit were completely absurd; Vince of course had himself had actually stolen the basis for the Razor Ramon and Diesel characters from their WCW runs as The Diamond Studd and Vinnie Vegas so WCW was going to be able to show prior usage on basically everything. It took a number of years for those legal proceedings to even reach a settlement stage.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:53
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:What was thought of as the true low point of the WWF from a bankruptcy standpoint? I'm assuming right before Montreal due to how desperate Vince was during that ordeal. There was a point in 1997 when Titan Towers removed the water coolers from the building as a cost-cutting measure. That says desperation to me.
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Sep 4, 2013 16:45
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Yeah, in 1996-97 they were running a lot of Raws out of tiny arenas and cutting costs all over the place.
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Sep 4, 2013 17:58
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I thought 95 was worse than 97?
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Sep 4, 2013 18:13
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oldpainless posted:I thought 95 was worse than 97? 1995 WWF was Vince on defense. He stepped away to focus on his legal problems, leaving other people in charge. If I'm not mistaken, that might have been "Cowboy" Bill Watts. You had a lot of kookiness in 1995 - lots more gimmicks (TL Hopper, Who, The Goon), more acquisitions from SMW (The Heavenly Bodies), and a focus on big big guys (Diesel, Sid, and King Mabel). The '95 Royal Rumble was a pretty good snapshot of what was going on - the actual match lasted 30 minutes (as a faster paced Rumble match!), and was almost completely filler, except for the two guys who started and finished it, reflecting that the WWF had almost no depth beyond a handful of stars.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:42
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Vince's legal stuff was in summer 1994 and Bill Watts lasted in WWF for only a couple of months and made no significant contributions.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:48
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jeffersonlives posted:Vince's legal stuff was in summer 1994 and Bill Watts lasted in WWF for only a couple of months and made no significant contributions. Ohh, I wondered if I was off by a year. What was Watts, then? I had thought he'd taken over as booker for a year-ish.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:00
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Red posted:Ohh, I wondered if I was off by a year. What was Watts, then? I had thought he'd taken over as booker for a year-ish. Vince brought Watts in for a little while in 1995 and then overruled everything Watts wanted to do. Not a lot to it.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:03
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Undertaker's bizarre phantom mask was Watts' idea. So not EVERYTHING.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:03
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Red posted:Ohh, I wondered if I was off by a year. What was Watts, then? I had thought he'd taken over as booker for a year-ish. Watts was only in on a three month contract during 95. He now claims that he didn't want a longer contract, but at the time it was felt his run was a trial that he didn't do well in.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:05
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Undertaker's bizarre phantom mask was Watts' idea. So not EVERYTHING. I thought the mask was kind of neat, but also assumed it was for UT's protection for a month or so, at least - similar to the mask Brutus Beefcake wore for a little while. (or Cody Rhodes') Was Watts' short tenure in the WWF the last real job he had? I know he got poo poo-canned from WCW by Hank Aaron (no, really), so I'm surprised Vince was willing to give him a chance.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:13
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VogeGandire posted:Today is the 18th anniversary of the first episode of Nitro 
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Sep 4, 2013 20:16
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Chris Gaines posted:I was 15 Go back to bed, grandpa! (I was 13).
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Sep 4, 2013 20:18
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Red posted:Was Watts' short tenure in the WWF the last real job he had? I know he got poo poo-canned from WCW by Hank Aaron (no, really), so I'm surprised Vince was willing to give him a chance. Pretty much. He was never in a position of power ever again. Apparently he owed his run to JR putting his name forward and a sense that he had been hard done by in WCW (as held by JR). Vince never really had any faith in him though, if he had the inital contract would've been much longer.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:23
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Skinty McEdger posted:Pretty much. He was never in a position of power ever again. Looking over Wikipedia, Hank Aaron's pull didn't get Watts fired - he supposedly resigned before Aaron had even heard of him.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:36
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Red posted:Looking over Wikipedia, Hank Aaron's pull didn't get Watts fired - he supposedly resigned before Aaron had even heard of him. That's Watts whitewashing. He was either fired or he quit in order to jump the gun on getting fired. He's also said the whole rant he went on to Keller was simply him talking about how restaurant owners should be allowed to discriminate - his quote: quote:If you want a business and you put money in, why shouldn't you be able to discriminate? It's your business. But that ignores what he says immediately afterward. quote:It's my investment. I can't tell a fag to get the gently caress out. I should have the right to not associate with a fag if I don't want to. I mean, why should I have to hire a loving fag if I don't like fags? Fags discriminate against us, don't they? Sure they do. Do blacks discriminate against whites? Hank was rightly livid and they pushed Watts's rear end out, and the rest was history. edit: should be noted he was probably going to get fired anyway. Strenuous Manflurry fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 21:00
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I think we found Zeb's next promo!
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Sep 4, 2013 21:02
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How does that interview get even more racist every time I read it?
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Sep 4, 2013 21:12
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I forgot the name of the round table show that Mean Gene used to host, but one of the topics that was discussed was blacks in wrestling. Bill Watts was one of the panelists 
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Sep 4, 2013 21:17
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Chris Gaines posted:I forgot the name of the round table show that Mean Gene used to host, but one of the topics that was discussed was blacks in wrestling. Bill Watts was one of the panelists It also featured legendary black wrestlers, Tony Atlas and Dusty Rhodes.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:27
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Teddy Long was also a panelist, and he recounts Ole Anderson being a dick to him (presumably for racist reasons) during a match he reffed in the early 80s.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:42
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I'm watching Timeline with Vince Russo. Don't watch Timeline with Vince Russo.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:00
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LividLiquid posted:I'm watching Timeline with Vince Russo. The moment he said "titles don't matter, wrestling isn't real" is when I knew for sure that the man doesn't just have bad ideas, but that he has no grasp whatsoever of the very fundamental basics of both wrestling and storytelling in general
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Sep 4, 2013 22:04
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Chris Gaines posted:I forgot the name of the round table show that Mean Gene used to host, but one of the topics that was discussed was blacks in wrestling. Bill Watts was one of the panelists Well if you follow the whitewashed history of Bill Watts, you overlook that rant above and point out that he was the first national booker to put his top belt on a black babyface in JYD. ...He did it so that he could market specifically to the black audience, sure, but he was still the first to do it.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:10
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Go back to bed, grandpa! (I was 13). I was 14 Too bad I can't find direct footage of Luger's first appearance on that Nitro because that was a really big deal. Jack Krauser posted:Yeah, in 1996-97 they were running a lot of Raws out of tiny arenas and cutting costs all over the place. Kind of a shame thanks to this Raw was live every other week until the fall of 1999 when they were really in control.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:15
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:The moment he said "titles don't matter, wrestling isn't real" is when I knew for sure that the man doesn't just have bad ideas, but that he has no grasp whatsoever of the very fundamental basics of both wrestling and storytelling in general Also, Kayfabe Commentaries needs a copy editor. There are so many spelling and punctuation errors in the production that drive me nuts.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:33
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LividLiquid posted:The storytelling in general part really rings true. I always knew he thought it, but to hear in such plain language that a plot device ceases to matter because it's fictitious? Holy hell, what a stupid thing to say. And it's not even the first time he's said it. The man is an ignorant incompetent buffoon, albeit one who has successfully conned not one, not two, but three different companies into believe that he's great. OK so he was fired as soon as he started his 2nd WWE run, but the very fact that he was a) hired again after destroying WCW and b) given an offer to be a "consultant" rather than fired immediately is really loving amazing. EDIT: he reminds me a lot of my first boss, who was a total loving idiot about the actual business he was in, but so goddamned charming and slick that he talked himself into high-paying job after high-paying job despite never succeeding at anything. I guess when you reach a certain level you start failing upwards.
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Sep 4, 2013 22:41
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thatguyclint posted:Well if you follow the whitewashed history of Bill Watts, you overlook that rant above and point out that he was the first national booker to put his top belt on a black babyface in JYD. He made JYD a hero in Mid-South by having him be his own man, fighting his own battles (sometimes winning, sometimes losing) without help - not unlike what Daniel Bryan is going through at the moment, and not unlike the character type Steve Austin was when he was faced with Vince McMahon. It was a ballsy move to try to market to a black audience when he risked alienating a large white fanbase. Then again, reading 'that Roots bullshit' makes sense now, what with Junkyard Dog in chains. 
Red fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 22:43
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If Russo made the Lord of the Rings movies, he'd rob the ring of all of its power and bury it in the first act of the first film. When fans complained, he'd be like, "It's fake, bro. The ring isn't real."
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Sep 4, 2013 23:00
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For anyone who's ever watched a single Russo shoot video before, timeline is exactly the same just with less y'know's and more blaming other people. Oh and I guess he calls the fans idiots more often than normal.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:18
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LividLiquid posted:If Russo made the Lord of the Rings movies, he'd rob the ring of all of its power and bury it in the first act of the first film. When fans complained, he'd be like, "It's fake, bro. The ring isn't real." Then Samwise would turn on Frodo about 3 different times before they ever got to Mordor, Gollum would be revealed to be Bilbo's long-lost son, and when Gandalf would be about to fight the Balrog he'd lay down and say "This is the part where I'm supposed to die."
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Sep 4, 2013 23:49
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Lets be fair here. do you really thing Russo would let one guy hold the ring all the way to Modor?
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Sep 4, 2013 23:58
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Zack_Gochuck posted:What did WWE do on those nights where RAW got preemted? Was there no RAW that week? Would it air Tuesday? Did they just have a house show? Hahaha I remember things got so bad for WCW in mid-late '99 that they ran a Nitro unopposed for all 3 hours and still lost to 11 PM Raw(pre-empted by the dog show). Something like a 4.06 for Nitro to Raw's 4.13, sure they were barely beat but its still pathetic. I think it was the Death of WCW.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:24
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Skinty McEdger posted:Lets be fair here. do you really thing Russo would let one guy hold the ring all the way to Modor? In book three the ring is usurped by the Wolfpac Fellowship.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:28
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Red posted:He made JYD a hero in Mid-South by having him be his own man, fighting his own battles (sometimes winning, sometimes losing) without help - not unlike what Daniel Bryan is going through at the moment, and not unlike the character type Steve Austin was when he was faced with Vince McMahon. It was a ballsy move to try to market to a black audience when he risked alienating a large white fanbase. The funniest thing about JYD is he was Mid-South tag champ with Dick Murdoch three different times. Dick Murdoch was in the KKK.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:29
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Halloween Jack posted:"Soul of Wrestling." Well Dusty did offer to be someone's black champ.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:30
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Bigass Moth posted:Dick Murdoch was in the KKK.  I did not know that
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Sep 5, 2013 00:31
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