|
Quest For Glory II posted:I thought about "put Virtual Console on iOS! Hidden emulators in paid apps always sell super great before they're removed!" but people only buy them so they can play their pirated roms, and usually those things (if they're anything like the android emulators I've seen) have ROM search engines built into them. It's a little funny that people are paying for the ability to pirate. Wait maybe I mean hosed up instead of funny. I guess I mean it's hosed up. The File Manager program that came out today with the secret SNES emulator is pretty awesome for $1. Then I tried to play Super Mario All Stars and realized how difficult it is to play a platformer with no tactile feedback on the controller. Tender Bender posted:Well it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. People buy handhelds for full fledged games because you know you aren't going to find a quality full length game on the phone market. But how many people who play pokemon own a smartphone? I don't see Mario Kart being feasible, but you can't tell me that pokemon or animal crossing wouldn't work. Putting Pokemon on a smart phone is a wrong business move for so many reasons... that would take away so many handheld sales. Don Tacorleone posted:That's the problem - in 6 years, Nintendo might not be in a position to make 300 dollar hardware where you can play their games. People are not paying that tax right now, with their flagship console the Wii U. So everyone's already going "Save Nintendo!". I'll be curious to see how it does over Christmas with a solid line up of games out for it. By the time the Wii U generation is done I'd guess that it is mediocre but profitable. Quest For Glory II posted:Sink with the ship for sure. I don't think there's any company as stubbornly rigid as them. They are a publicly traded company and have shareholders to answer to, they can't just say they are not going to make games anymore.
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:48 |
|
|
Install Windows posted:In all seriousness, I'm sure Square is doing ok with those $20 barely touched ports of their old RPGs they poo poo out on phones every few months. It's certainly not their primary business but it is a steady revenue stream. If only they were "barely touched"... it seems like most of them are filled with RPG Maker menus and hideous filtered sprites and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:34
|
|
|
PaletteSwappedNinja posted:If only they were "barely touched"... it seems like most of them are filled with RPG Maker menus and hideous filtered sprites and whatnot. Uh... RPG Maker's menus were pretty much direct copies of Square's game menus in the first place. Also the filtered sprites are pretty much the definition of no-effort. "Redraw these for higher res screens? gently caress that let's just run this through a crappy resize filter!" Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:41
|
|
|
Didn't Xcom do pretty well?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:41
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Putting Pokemon on a smart phone is a wrong business move for so many reasons... that would take away so many handheld sales. What if Nintendo just released NES and maybe original GameBoy games over iOS and Android, and charged what they do for those same titles on the eShop? No one's buying a 3DS to play NES and GameBoy roms. Also what if they released say Pokemon FireRed or LeafGreen for iOS, basically straight ports, but made them compatible with the newer titles so you could catch and trade earlier Pokemon not available in X/Y. It may cannibalize some sales from people who just want a Pokemon fix, but kids and Pokemon fans will always want to play the new entries, and in the above scenario they'd still need the newest Ninendo portable to do so. These aren't necessarily the best ideas, but they, or something like them, could be ways for Nintendo to make money on iOS without necessarily hurting their handheld business.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:43
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Uh... RPG Maker's menus were pretty much direct copies of Square's game menus in the first place. I mean in the sense that they look extremely ugly and low-budget.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:47
|
|
|
Astro7x posted:Putting Pokemon on a smart phone is a wrong business move for so many reasons... that would take away so many handheld sales. Cmon dude it was a two paragraph post and in the next paragraph I specifically said whether it was a smart overall business move is a different argument. I was addressing the notion that real games could work on a phone and people would buy them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:49
|
|
|
PaletteSwappedNinja posted:I mean in the sense that they look extremely ugly and low-budget. Like I said, the ports are halfass as gently caress. And somehow there's people shelling out the $15+ for those things. It's madness.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 04:50
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Like I said, the ports are halfass as gently caress. And somehow there's people shelling out the $15+ for those things. It's madness. Because they're pretty much the only meaty games you can get on a smartphone. Unless you count emulated games. And those are pretty much a loving nightmare to play unless it's an RPG or you want to look like a giant loving loser with a PS3 controller attached to your Galaxy 4. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 05:09
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Like I said, the ports are halfass as gently caress. And somehow there's people shelling out the $15+ for those things. It's madness. I bought TWEWY and its really good, really well made port, so not all Square games on iOS are lazy ports.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 05:50
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Like I said, the ports are halfass as gently caress. And somehow there's people shelling out the $15+ for those things. It's madness.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 07:52
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:I'm not sure there ARE people shelling out money. Square Enix won't reveal any sales data, but a google search only pulled up a Kotaku article from last year stating no Square title was in the top 200 paid apps. I mean you don't have to have as many downloads as a top 10 title if you're charging 20x as much but. Most articles I've seen searching for "Square Enix iOS sales" are iOS news/blogs saying "Square just doesn't get it". (and various iOS sales weekends of course) Every time they put out a Final Fantasy game it remains in the Top Paid Apps list for ages. It is their non-Final Fantasy games like Chaos Rings which don't actually get up high, and why they've moved towards DS ports and F2P games instead. People will pay that much for Final Fantasy but that is about it, and it probably still isn't that worthwhile, it's just a no-effort port job.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 07:57
|
|
|
I guess there is something to say about nostalgia, but if the original ideas don't sell then it's definitely another red flag for me. It can't be a good thing that the only way to make money on iOS is to exert the least amount of effort possible and pander flagrantly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 08:03
|
|
|
Toady posted:I'm not convinced that not wanting to buy a new console for $250 just to play one or two games is whiny or entitled. I guess this is a few pages behind, but the point I was trying to make is that both Nintendo and Sony are pushing DOA platforms right now, and if you're going to suggest that Nintendo go third party, you might as well suggest that for Sony. poo poo, I'd argue that the Vita tanking is just about as bad for Sony as the Wii U tanking is for Nintendo. They were king poo poo of gently caress mountain in Japan because they had Monster Hunter tied up on PSP, but they're kind of screwed now that they lost it. It's really bad when even the Japanese don't want to buy a handheld. I want to say that even the Wonder Swan did better than the Vita's doing. I understand that we're all playing armchair analyst here, but sometimes a dumb idea is just a dumb idea. I'm not even trying to curb discussion or anything, just calling it like I see it  megalodong posted:Despite the hardest wishes of the ios gaming thread, mobiles won't become a hardcore gamer's paradise. When people buy $600 phones and refuse to pay more than a loving dollar upfront for a game, that's a bigger problem than not having real buttons to press. I also don't see Nintendo ever considering using a platform with as much piracy as iOS and Android, either. I mean, that was the big sticking point with them using giant, expensive cartridges for the N64.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 09:12
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:I'm not sure there ARE people shelling out money. Square Enix won't reveal any sales data Quest For Glory II posted:It can't be a good thing that the only way to make money on iOS is to exert the least amount of effort possible and pander flagrantly. So you don't know if Square is making money on their 20 dollar games that are based on ports of old games, yet you're sure the only way to make money on iOS is to make cheapass 99 cent software, but anyway Nintendo should release Virtual Console on iOS and sell Earthbound for 5-10 dollars(but not really because piracy). Also you just know that iOS gamers won't pay more than a dollar for a meaty single player long campaign game (Or maybe they'll pay 5 dollars for an old port, I forgot which), but there's no way to prove this because there are no AAA games released on iOS, and you also believe Nintendo would rather go bankrupt (because Japan Prideruu) instead of ever accept porting their games to mobile non-Nintendo platforms. Listen, I disagree with all of these points, so I'll move on, but I'd like you to consider the possibility that you are missing a couple of things here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 09:44
|
|
|
Bovineicide posted:I also don't see Nintendo ever considering using a platform with as much piracy as iOS and Android, either. DS.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 09:58
|
|
|
Bovineicide posted:I also don't see Nintendo ever considering using a platform with as much piracy as iOS and Android, either. Wii.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 10:06
|
|
|
TaurusOxford posted:Wii. It has to be loving late if I'm forgetting the R4 happened  However, was the Homebrew channel as big of a problem for the Wii? There's a bit more work involved with that buying a flash cart and downloading ROMs. I'm also going to stick to my guns and say that both of those are a drop in the bucket compared to how bad Android piracy is in general.
Bovineicide fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 10:16
|
|
|
Bovineicide posted:It has to be loving late if I'm forgetting the R4 happened Why would they be looking at piracy statistics instead of earning potential? "No I refuse to make $1 billion off of this platform, it has too many pirates!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:03
|
|
|
Bovineicide posted:It has to be loving late if I'm forgetting the R4 happened Big enough that Nintendo says it voids the warranty of any Wii it's installed to. It basically is the first step at enabling piracy, and while gamers like to pretend that piracy is always something that companies bitch about needlessly, you only need to look at any filesharing site to see that it is, in fact, a problem that DOES encourage companies to do some very...interesting things with their hardware to try and discourage it. The Vita is basically a response to all of the piracy that hit the PSP. Nintendo has done its level best to prevent another R4 from happening (and may have failed to do so in the end) The Xbone was basically a huge middle finger to everyone, but especially to people who'd modded their console to play "backups" and "installs" of games without needing to ever own a disc. Sony removed linux functionality from the PS3 to pre-empt pirates (which only made people try harder to crack the system anyway, of course blaming the company for being the bad guys in all this). We should automatically discount VGchartz for anything, but if we assumed that its numbers were correct regarding Xenoblade, more people worldwide pirated the game in 2011 alone than was sold across every region. Piracy is a thing that does bring out legitimate concerns, on any platform. You basically said "Well, I'm sure pirates are a thing on consoles, but they can't be nearly that bad because Android piracy is worse because I believe it to be so." It's a pretty bad thing everywhere, and it's almost always driven by people who make excuses for why they do it, regardless of the actual price or quality of the product they are pirating. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:09
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:
Xenoblade was pirated because it took them too drat long to release it in the west. When it did it got a piss poor release in America. Not only that when it was released in Japan it was at a time where there was nothing being released on the Wii. In total people pirated it because the platform had nothing to play on, localization took way too long, and it was a hard game to find.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:14
|
|
|
WendigoJohnson posted:Xenoblade was pirated because it took them too drat long to release it in the west. When it did it got a piss poor release in America. Not only that when it was released in Japan it was at a time where there was nothing being released on the Wii. In total people pirated it because the platform had nothing to play on, localization took way too long, and it was a hard game to find. Oh so the only reason people pirated Xenoblades was because "it took them too long to release it". Bullshit, I used to pirate EVERYTHING, not for some weird morals or because a developer was late releasing anything, just because I was a cheap glutton that wanted free games. From all the people I know who hacked their Wiis and everyone I have ever known to pirate things is because they wanted FREE STUFF, and I'm pretty god drat sure the majority of pirates think the exact same way. I understand people's fears of companies going too far to prevent piracy, but let's be honest here, pirating does hurt developers in some way, and the majority of piracy is caused by the wanting of FREE STUFF. a bone to pick fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:19
|
|
|
WendigoJohnson posted:Xenoblade was pirated because it took them too drat long to release it in the west. When it did it got a piss poor release in America. Not only that when it was released in Japan it was at a time where there was nothing being released on the Wii. In total people pirated it because the platform had nothing to play on, localization took way too long, and it was a hard game to find. Well yeah, there's always reasons to not pay money for something, but that doesn't necessarily make them good reasons in the face of legitimate ways to spend money on a physical copy of the game to play it on your console.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:20
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Well yeah, there's always reasons to not pay money for something, but that doesn't necessarily make them good reasons in the face of legitimate ways to spend money on a physical copy of the game to play it on your console. The game costs over 80 dolllars. It costs almost as much as the system itself second hand.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:21
|
|
|
WendigoJohnson posted:The game costs over 80 dolllars. It costs almost as much as the system itself second hand. You're not entitled to play a videogame. Ideally, if something is too expensive but you still REALLY WANT TO PLAY IT, you acknowledge that you have to save up money for the damned thing so you can buy it later. If it's too much to buy an 80 dollar videogame in the era of 60 bucks on average for most videogames, if its something that will be a serious detriment to you financially to spend the extra twenty on one game, you might need to rethink how much value you put on a completely optional hobby. This doesn't make the pricing FAIR, because it isn't. GS is specifically taking advantage of a situation they, along with Nintendo, more or less deliberately engineered. However, you're not being Robin Hood by pirating a videogame in 2013. You're being a petty thief at best. There's no amount of twisting and turning and mental gymnastics in the world that changes the fact that pirates are attempting to acquire, for free, something that cost a lot of time and money to produce in the first place. They did this the year that the game was released in Europe, basically the year that there was a version of the game available that did not require a complex, mostly unfinished translation patch that probably would have only handled the menus. Nintendo of America could have looked at the numbers alone and said "Why bother? It's not going to sell nearly as much as it will be pirated." They would have been right. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Nintendo of America could have looked at the numbers alone and said "Why bother? It's not going to sell nearly as much as it will be pirated." They would have been right. 6 trillion space aliens of the Milky Way could pirate your game and that wouldn't stop it from being profitable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:33
|
|
|
Fallom posted:6 trillion space aliens of the Milky Way could pirate your game and that wouldn't stop it from being profitable. Well its certainly a good thing 6 trillion aliens aren't a factor in any of this at all, the rest of the spiral will probably never get anything localized at this rate
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:36
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Well its certainly a good thing 6 trillion aliens aren't a factor in any of this at all, the rest of the spiral will probably never get anything localized at this rate Its entirely possible 6 trillion aliens are pirating WiiU games and we just don't know about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 13:59
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:You're not entitled to play a videogame. Ideally, if something is too expensive but you still REALLY WANT TO PLAY IT, you acknowledge that you have to save up money for the damned thing so you can buy it later. If it's too much to buy an 80 dollar videogame in the era of 60 bucks on average for most videogames, if its something that will be a serious detriment to you financially to spend the extra twenty on one game, you might need to rethink how much value you put on a completely optional hobby. Whether fivegears4reverse feels people aren't justified in pirating Xenoblade, those are the reasons why a lot of people did. Those people might say if you're paying stupid amounts for a second hand game when you can play it for free at no detriment to yourself then you're a bit of a idiot. Whether that's ethical or not is another matter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 14:02
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Well its certainly a good thing 6 trillion aliens aren't a factor in any of this at all, the rest of the spiral will probably never get anything localized at this rate Hey, they weren't going to buy it anyway, so it doesn't matter! Probably my most hatred justification of piracy of them all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 14:08
|
|
|
Jimbo Jaggins posted:Whether fivegears4reverse feels people aren't justified in pirating Xenoblade, those are the reasons why a lot of people did. Those people might say if you're paying stupid amounts for a second hand game when you can play it for free at no detriment to yourself then you're a bit of a idiot. Whether that's ethical or not is another matter. True, there are always people who want free stuff who sneer at those who actually pay for things. Those folks also tend to be at the forefront of any bitching when it comes to wondering why (game) didn't get localized. It's circular, stupid logic, championed by oftentimes stupid people. "HOW DARE GAME GET DELAYED/LOCALIZED IN A MANNER I FIND OFFENSIVE TO NIPPON/GET DUBBED/NOT GET DUBBED/CENSOR KIDDIE PANTIES/NOT CENSOR KIDDIE PANTIES/BE ANIME/NOT BE ANIME/BE AN RPG/SHOOTER/MODERNMANSHOOT/LOLSPORTZ/DISPARAGING NAME FOR A GENRE I HATE/GAME PUBLISHED BY (company)/COST (x) AMOUNT OF DOLLARS! THIS WILL SHOW THEM (what exactly im not sure but im on the INTERNET being an ACTIVIST for videogames so i matter somehow)!" Fallom suggested that a company shouldn't be concerned with piracy, and focus on whether or not the game will be profitable. However, piracy CAN affect whether or not a game or a system is profitable, or profitable as it could be. It's a factor that must be taken into account, because everyone in the industry knows that to some extent, there will be attempts at, if not actually successful piracy of any game, ever. We'll never know how profitable Xenoblade truly was, but I somehow doubt it did as well as say, FF13 (which is just CRUSHING to think about). While the delays to the localization could be used by pirates to justify why they downloaded Xenoblade, it doesn't change the fact that nearly a million people did pirate the game, and there is absolutely no way to guarantee that those folks went out and bought the game afterwards. Most pirates probably don't buy the games they pirate later on some honor system. And now I've gone and continued a derail that much further Astro7x posted:Hey, they weren't going to buy it anyway, so it doesn't matter! For me it's up there with "They took too long to localize it, so I already pirated it and now I don't wanna buy it." Which is exactly what happened to Xenoblade despite the enthusiastic Operation Rainfall. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 14:28
|
|
|
Finger wagging about the morality and ethics of piracy, or whether people's excuses for it have merit or not doesn't cut down on piracy. People are always going to pirate as long as pirating is possible and companies should definately be concerned about piracy. In the case of Xenoblade though it seems that Nintendo created a situation where piracy was more likely, that doesn't justify it but in terms of cause and effect it is what it is. Release a game in one part of the world and leave too long a wait to release it elsewhere and more people will pirate it and when you do finally release it there it's gonna sell less. It isn't a publisher's fault that this happens but it's really stupid of them to not realise this sort of thing and do the best they can to mitigate it. It's a hard balance to get right though, especially if you don't think it's going to sell well there to begin with. So you have a limited release, which bumps the price up, leading to more piracy. There's more to take into account than straight piracy statistics. I imagine PC piracy was far more common before the popularisation of Steam but Valve didn't say 'Well let's not bother with this steam malarky because PC piracy is so rampant'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:01
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Fallom suggested that a company shouldn't be concerned with piracy, and focus on whether or not the game will be profitable. However, piracy CAN affect whether or not a game or a system is profitable, or profitable as it could be. It's a factor that must be taken into account, because everyone in the industry knows that to some extent, there will be attempts at, if not actually successful piracy of any game, ever. Yeah and I didn't say that wasn't the case. The point of my "space aliens" example is that piracy is a factor because companies want to reduce it when they can, but it wouldn't make sense as a reason to stay away from a platform if you predict your game would be successful in spite of it. If your game sells 5 million copies and makes you a hell of a profit, having 6 million people pirate it doesn't take away from that value. Astro7x posted:Hey, they weren't going to buy it anyway, so it doesn't matter! Not what I was saying at all. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:09
|
|
|
One thing to consider: People who pirate WiiU games have bought a WiiU.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:23
|
|
|
Jimbo Jaggins posted:There's more to take into account than straight piracy statistics. I imagine PC piracy was far more common before the popularisation of Steam but Valve didn't say 'Well let's not bother with this steam malarky because PC piracy is so rampant'. Hey, just so you know, Gabe's talked about this. quote:PCGamer: Do you have a good sense of piracy rates with Steam games? (emphasis mine)
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:29
|
|
|
Boiled Water posted:One thing to consider: People who pirate WiiU games have bought a WiiU. What if the 6 trillion aliens managed to code a working emulator?
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:44
|
|
|
YourAverageJoe posted:Hey, just so you know, Gabe's talked about this. Create a product that people will actually want to go out and buy, provide good customer service, and piracy isn't as much of an issue. Steam sales, I'm sure, also help tremendously. I'm not gonna go wade through pirate bay to find a good copy of Far Cry 2 with not-virus infected keygens and poo poo when I can just get it on steam for a fiver (or less). I'll actually have a fully featured game in my name that I don't have to worry about randomly breaking/deleting itself. extremebuff fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Sep 5, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 15:52
|
|
|
Bovineicide posted:I guess this is a few pages behind, but the point I was trying to make is that both Nintendo and Sony are pushing DOA platforms right now, and if you're going to suggest that Nintendo go third party, you might as well suggest that for Sony. What's with this recurring notion that Sony must be criticized equally as much as Nintendo? The suggestion was that Nintendo either go third party on consoles or drop out to focus on their handhelds. I don't care if Sony gives up on handhelds.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
Toady posted:What's with this recurring notion that Sony must be criticized equally as much as Nintendo? Sony going "3rd party" doesn't even make sense. It's ridiculous. Sony has entertainment, a whole lineup of cellphones that they own, TVs. It's just a different universe from Nintendo. What would "Go 3rd party" even mean for Sony? Releasing games on their Xperia phones? Sony Online entertainment has been releasing PC games since Everquest in the 90's. What would "Go 3rd party" mean here? Release games on Xbox1 ? People are clearly excited for the PS4, it's the start of a new console-gen, and Sony has always been hardware-focused, so there's no comparison to the Wii U / Nintendo's position unless we're discussing Sony being financially in trouble (because of a lot of divisions not being profitable, except for Sony Insurance sales). Completely different situations.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 17:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:48 |
|
|
I can't wait to see how the WiiU does in the Christmas season. It'll have a more solid lineup of games, but it'll be directly competing with the real next gen consoles. I don't think the price drop was dramatic enough to turn things around against the exciting new stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2013 17:33
|
|