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BirdOfPlay posted:Thanks, that list jump-started some memories of C and what would gave me issues in the "C" class. Also, would skimming K&R C be more detriment than helpful to get my head on straight with regards to C as it's used now? I mean, I do know that the book is based on C86, but isn't that the last version Microsoft is compliant with? If you're restricted to C for embedded, it's often due to the need to support some obscure old platform where the compiler is a vendor monstrosity or a specifically patched, old GCC version where no-one ever bothered to upstream the platform patches. Visual Studio is mostly C90 compliant but has none of the new C99 stuff, though I heard MSVC2013 will fix this to some extent. But yeah, when people code in C it's usually because things really need to run everywhere, which means no "new" stuff. Offhand for someone used to C++ I would expect more explicit pointer manipulation (no smart pointers, no reference arguments, function ptrs instead of dynamic dispatch, ...) and null-terminated strings (the cause of almost every security hole) to be the tripping points - it's no coincidence I lighted this out in the previous post. Hiowf fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Otto Skorzeny posted:[*]know C real well - you don't have to be a language lawyer, but you should understand the memory model real well. also if you don't know what the static keyword means for a function and for a variable and what the volatile keyword does and doesn't do I would suggest working on that I'm linking this here because it's neat, somewhat appropriate and may help the question asker: http://www.slideshare.net/olvemaudal/deep-c Very good post BTW, excellent summary of what you'd be expected to know as a "real" (i.e. not iOS/Android/...) embedded dev.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:39
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Man, just did my first ever codility online programming session / interview question thing and it was stressful as gently caress. Being put on a clock is really nerve wracking.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:37
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Tres Burritos posted:Man, just did my first ever codility online programming session / interview question thing and it was stressful as gently caress. Being put on a clock is really nerve wracking. assuming its a 30 minute deal, youll probably be best served by splitting up your time as 3-5 minutes: read problem statement, and make sure there arent any gotchas 10-15 minutes: figure out how you want to solve it, write some pseudocode 10-15 minutes: code up solution also some of famdav's top tips: 1) know your standard library 2) if youre using a c or a c++, make sure your types can contain your results. you should probably just use long long everywhere. 3) be really dumb about your implementation 4) dont fret about optimizations that will improve best case behavior until after you have a conforming answer. 5) if for some reason you can't figure out the base case, pick some small problem size at which you will brute force a solution. and finally, some algorithmic complexity top tips: if you have an n^2 algorithm on unsorted data and they want n log n, then you should start by sorting your input. if you can use additional space, you can probably get linear time with a hash table. if you have an n^2 algorithm and they want linear, think about what happens if you go over the data in one direction and then the other. you can often reduce time/space complexity by doing less at the same time.
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Sep 4, 2013 21:06
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Tres Burritos posted:Man, just did my first ever codility online programming session / interview question thing and it was stressful as gently caress. Being put on a clock is really nerve wracking. I actually find the codility tests a lot more fun than the other sites. Codility gives you two hours and gives you questions that are simple, varied, and test things like thinking about extreme edge cases. I had one company that gave me a test with only ten minutes to do it and handle edge cases, I flubbed that one and they didn't call me back which is sad since I knew the solution right away and almost gave a working solution but something went wrong in my code and the site didn't give helpful feedback at all. Ten minutes is not enough time to give you working code as a test, people, it's too much pressure, just give more tests but much more time!
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Sep 4, 2013 21:08
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piratepilates posted:I actually find the codility tests a lot more fun than the other sites. Codility gives you two hours and gives you questions that are simple, varied, and test things like thinking about extreme edge cases. I had 1 hour to do 2 problems, finished the first with 10 minutes to spare and the second with 4 minutes. Man I didn't even have time for stuff like edge cases, however it seemed like from the problem question I didn't really have to worry about it too much. (famous last words)
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Sep 4, 2013 21:11
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Tres Burritos posted:I had 1 hour to do 2 problems, finished the first with 10 minutes to spare and the second with 4 minutes. Man I didn't even have time for stuff like edge cases, however it seemed like from the problem question I didn't really have to worry about it too much. (famous last words) There are some questions where you have to worry about overflow/underflow and such but there are others where their bound on the input is good enough so you don't have to worry too much about things. Maybe you should just practice writing more of these things outside of tests so you can get better at writing them? Probably haven't been taking any courses that follow these questions for a couple of years (I know I haven't) so maybe you should get the ol' juices flowing. edit: and the best thing to do with Codility is to probably just relax! You'll probably think better and do it in the same or less amount of time if you don't feel so pressured to write it as fast as possible. piratepilates fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 21:56
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piratepilates posted:There are some questions where you have to worry about overflow/underflow and such but there are others where their bound on the input is good enough so you don't have to worry too much about things. Yeah, I was doing their little practice one and it was  as heck."Heh, you didn't check for integer overflows, scrub."
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Sep 4, 2013 23:29
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So, I've just graduated from my BSc. in Comp Sci and I've been applying for jobs. I have some phone interviews coming up, but one of my profs recommended that I come back on as an MSc student in CS. The potential upside is that it's with the computer science department chair (or with a different prof who's all about hands-on learning with embedded systems). Obviously I understand that it's my situation and it's difficult to gauge the value of a MSc versus a BSc for some random dude over the internet, but, objectively, what's the general consensus? Does the fact that it's a standing offer change anything? Does the fact that it may be with the department chair really affect a lot? 
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Sep 5, 2013 04:21
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I wouldn't do a masters straight out of undergrad, for lots of reasons. Unless it is something you really really want to do and can't imagine doing anything else.
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Sep 5, 2013 04:23
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I would only do it if the project you'd be doing is awesome, lines up 100% with your career goals, and is the kind of thing that would clearly and obviously lead to a job at somewhere you'd like to work. Also, you should be getting a full ride and a guaranteed TA/RAship. The thing you need to remember is that you could probably just go out and work in industry and in two years with raises etc you'd probably be at the same salary that you'd be starting at with a masters. Which is going to take you to years as well, during which you're going to be getting paid a lot less. That said, I think there's a lot of neat jobs that aren't really open to people with just a B.S., you don't really hear about them because employers recruit for them via professors and graduate alumni, and a lot of times they're just neater jobs because you're doing more researchy stuff as opposed to being just a code monkey. But you need to make sure your advisor has those kind of connections and isn't just completely buried in academia. Also, apply to more than one grad school, don't just stick with your current school. Grad school operates in this weird world where the better the school, the more you get paid to go there, and it isn't nearly as hard to get into CS/engineering grad schools as you'd think.
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Sep 5, 2013 07:42
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kitten smoothie posted:I now share an office with one other guy. It's a 200 sqft room where one entire wall is a 12 foot tall whiteboard. We are the only two employees this company has in my city -- everyone else is two timezones away in Silicon Valley -- so nobody can burst into the door like Kramer and disrupt us. I can walk in at 8AM, sit down, and next thing I know it's time for my noon standup call and I've got a pile of finished work. It's absolutely blissful. Trapick posted:I've got a job, but this feels like a newbie question so I figure I'll try it here... Enjoy!
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Sep 5, 2013 08:00
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Pilsner posted:Wear a fedora, a t-shirt with a clever nerd expression and jorts. Make sure you don the sponsored backpack/messenger bag, your badge, and jump head first into freebies, signing up for newsletters with all the companies present on the floor. Walk around with your colleagues at all times, and make sure you go to a session in every single time slot, rather than skipping out because there are no interesting ones for that slot. Meet 5 minutes late for the lunch so you can enjoy the 100-nerd-long queue. Attend the super interesting evening "party" associated with the conference. When the evening is done, go to your hotel room and do some remote work from your laptop, then turn in early. Don't go out and enjoy the nearby city, you're there to be serious. Don't bother bringing any shirts, you'll get enough free ones to last a month!  Once companies start giving away free sweatpants and boxers at their booths, no one will need to pack clothes at all.
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Sep 5, 2013 08:04
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Pilsner posted:Walk around with your colleagues at all times, and make sure you go to a session in every single time slot, rather than skipping out because there are no interesting ones for that slot. You forgot "make sure to only go to the sessions that are obviously directly related to your job rather than the ones that would actually be interesting and might teach you something new." After all, you are there to make more money for your company not to expand your own boundaries or some poo poo.
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Sep 5, 2013 13:40
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Pilsner posted:Heh, I can't help but wonder if you physically stand up while doing your "standup call". Yeah, but only because my colleague is the one who usually dials in and it's not worth rolling my chair across the room to his desk Pilsner posted:Wear a fedora, a t-shirt with a clever nerd expression and jorts. Make sure you don the sponsored backpack/messenger bag, your badge, and jump head first into freebies, signing up for newsletters with all the companies present on the floor. Walk around with your colleagues at all times, and make sure you go to a session in every single time slot, rather than skipping out because there are no interesting ones for that slot. Meet 5 minutes late for the lunch so you can enjoy the 100-nerd-long queue. Attend the super interesting evening "party" associated with the conference. When the evening is done, go to your hotel room and do some remote work from your laptop, then turn in early. Don't go out and enjoy the nearby city, you're there to be serious.
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Sep 5, 2013 14:54
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What were the first few months of your first job out of school like? Scope of the tasks you were given, how much hand holding was done, etc. I'm starting to get the vibe that my company doesn't really know how to incorporate a younger hire. We are 100% client-based, and I'm now on the third project in the span of 4 months. I was pulled from my last client (just as I was starting to get comfortable) because of this "emergency": turns out I'm the only developer on this upcoming project and tasked with trudging through thousands of lines of spaghetti JavaScript/Node on my own and putting together an application by myself based on a prototype built by a guy who has been doing this poo poo for 20+ years but suddenly quit last month. There will be nobody there to provide me any guidance or tell me whether I'm doing things properly or not. Not only that, but the guy building the prototype wanted to get me on this project before they staffed me at my 2nd client. He and I worked together on the first project I was on, another prototype. The company put me on client 2 because they are typical greedy corporate schmucks and saw a potential opening for business long-term, but now they look dumb because they don't have anybody else to work on this project and had to pull me before my contract was up. Upper management is so incompetent. I loved the developers I interviewed with and they seemed very smart. The projects sounded interesting and I felt that they'd be really good at getting me into their teams but it seems like there's a shortage of in-house work and we're mostly getting continued business on teams that are already in place at clients. E: And I guess for Senior developers: how do you work to incorporate a new developer into your team? What types of tasks would you give them to start getting them comfortable? Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 19:13
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Good Will Hrunting posted:What were the first few months of your first job out of school like? Scope of the tasks you were given, how much hand holding was done, etc. I'm starting to get the vibe that my company doesn't really know how to incorporate a younger hire. This is why the world is full of bitter, jaded, alcoholic programmers. If its your first job just suck it up for 18-24 months to get experience then move on. First jobs usually are terrible because of the "no real experience" thing. Once you get some experience under your belt the situation changes considerably.
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Sep 6, 2013 08:06
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Thanks to everybody who helped me out in this thread, and others. Just received an offer from the company that I enjoyed interviewing for the most. Now to learn Ruby on Rails as fast as I can...
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Sep 7, 2013 01:44
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Start the new job contracting pretty soon, I was told it "could be" contract to perm, or have the contract extended when it's up. For some reason, I'm pretty confident I'm just going to get jerked around with contract extensions instead of a full time offer so they don't need to give PTO/benefits or anything. Is it realistic to use my experience I've earned there to try and "leverage" a permanent position when the contract expires after a year or so? ie. say Make me full time or I'll find a new job?
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Sep 7, 2013 15:12
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No that can backfire, and you lose your contract renewal. Search for a new job months before and take it when your contract ends.
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Sep 7, 2013 16:24
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Ultimatums aren't super effective in negotiations, but just asking for what you want is. I think if you work there for a year and prove yourself to be anything other than grossly incompetent, they'll probably be chomping at the bit to keep you around--it's really hard to hire programmers.
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Sep 7, 2013 17:31
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Sab669 posted:Start the new job contracting pretty soon, I was told it "could be" contract to perm, or have the contract extended when it's up. For some reason, I'm pretty confident I'm just going to get jerked around with contract extensions instead of a full time offer so they don't need to give PTO/benefits or anything. Is it realistic to use my experience I've earned there to try and "leverage" a permanent position when the contract expires after a year or so? ie. say Make me full time or I'll find a new job?
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Sep 8, 2013 18:29
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How many places/positions do you guys typically have to apply to per job change?
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Sep 9, 2013 05:19
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I'm in a bit of a quandary, and I'm hoping you wise forum-goers can help me out. I started with a company 2.5 years ago, hired on as a student support technician. It is a small startup, and there was plenty of room to jump in and 'just do it', and I did just that. I started off small, making small scripts to streamline the support processes, but I love programming and always took the work home, and then after about a few months they moved me into a developer position(while still being a student). I work tons of hours during the summer, and as many as I can during the winter, its a pretty drat awesome gig for student. I've been given a huge leash to run with, and I feel like its been mutually beneficial for the company and me, and I feel like I've grown a lot as a thinker, and by extension a developer. Its a very small shop, and the CEO is genuinely brilliant and a nice guy. I've taken part in developing and maintaining their main money maker and spearheaded development in another product that is going through Q&A right now before being released to the public. On top of that, I've become a very active, and in some cases sole maintainer, of a couple open source solutions they use as well. I love to program, and my social life suffers, but I love to program and solve problems, to a fault almost. There have also been conferences I've been spoken at in regards to our software/ideas, which was very fun! I love conferences! Everybody is so excited about new things! So here is where the dilemma enters the scene. I am graduating this coming Spring (hopefully), and my boss/CEO approached me about employment after graduation. Paraphrased, he said something like quote:Just think about how much you would like to be paid. We won't be able to pay you as much as they do out in San Francisco, but you're worth more than fresh CS grad and we consider you a valuable asset to the company and would love to keep you here. So think about it for a bit and then let me know when you want to talk about it. So the questions bearing on my mind are the following: When should I approach him about this? There is a career fair on September 17th I am going to network at, but I haven't started vetting my resume to any companies yet. Should I do that and wait for possible responses? If so when is the deadline to talk to my current boss? How much should I ask for? We are in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. I am wondering how much would be fair for both of us? I do lots of backend work usually in Python, sometimes in C, I like doing the data structures intensive stuff, been dabbling in Go and really like it, but I digress. I've had to do a significant amount of work with the PHP/JavaScript/CSS toolchain as well. In all my side projects I've tried out different Python web frameworks to avoid the PHP debacle, so I'm pretty familiar with Django, Flask and Bottle as well. I think you all would laugh if I told you how much I am making right now. I would just like to take this opportunity of graduation to stop undervaluing myself. I used it to get my foot in the door, but I can't let it continue. Should I stay? I really like the work environment. Very open minded place, lax dress code, free food a few days a week and time for personal pet projects as long as they are related to the company. But the problem is, is that the CEO is largely leaving me to lead projects. He is a brilliant guy, but doesn't want to be on the coding end of things anymore. I feel a little out of my league doing the major product planning, developing and testing. He said he is looking into hiring a more senior coder, but at this point, I feel like I would considered the senior coder there--barring him--with only 2 real years of experience and an upcoming CSCI degree. I'd like to be working with people who are smarter and more experienced than I, but I'm not really sure how common my situation is. Thanks for reading all of this. I look forward to your help. Innocent Bystander fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 07:23
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If I were you I'd take your awesome (for a fresh grad) experience and use it to get an amazing job somewhere else where you can, like you said, work with really smart people in big teams on big-time products. I think doing that would help you a lot more as a developer than staying at your current job. So go ahead, go out and network and see what you find that you like. I think you'll get a lot of interest. Your deadline to tell your boss is whatever the HR policy says (usually two weeks). You're under no obligation to tell him that you're definitely leaving until then. Don't feel guilty, it sounds like he's gotten an absolute steal thus far by having a dev at student wages.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:44
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First off, if you feel embarrassed to mention the salary then they're probably not paying you enough. Honestly you shouldn't feel loyalty to this guy. I mean don't be a dick about it to him but if you get a better offer then you shouldn't feel bad about it. This is your life, so if working at company X is better for you than working at his company you should take it. Don't consider "free food" and "lax dress code" and "working on pet projects" as additional perks because those can be taken away at any time (unless its in your contract, obviously). There are lots of companies that have those perks, e.g. the ones you want to work for. But if you hate living in SF with its high rent and food (and those negatives don't get outweighed by the pluses) then don't go to SF. But don't stay in St. Paul if there's no reason to stay. There are other places for you to work. I mean it sounds like he treated you well, but didn't really pay you that much and now that you're graduating it seems like they're trying to preempt you from asking them to pay you higher wages by saying they can't pay you that much. Well okay, thanks for the experience, cya later! If you really want to stay with them, and they can't pay you that much: ask for stock options, shorter review cycles, more vacation, etc etc. So my advice is to go to the career fair on Sept 17, get interviews or whatever and then negotiate the hell out of your contract.
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Sep 9, 2013 10:16
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I'm trying to find a new job because my current position (which I have only been in for just over 2 months) is most definitely not a good fit for me. The issue is that when I joined this company I (stupidly) agreed to a 3 month notice period. The reason they wanted such a long notice period was because they got burned by their previous developer leaving with absolutely no notice period whatsoever. The mitigating factors at this stage are that: I have no actual contract yet, all I've signed is the job acceptance letter (which did mention this 3 month notice period in fairness). Also, I'm still within my probation period. of 3 months. One of the things I'm noticing now that I apply for jobs is that 3 months notice seems like it might be a real deal-breaker. No-one is going to sit around and wait that long for a junior developer. I had hoped to be able to negotiate my probation period down to a standard month/6 weeks or so, because my boss seemed pretty reasonable. Today however I actually mentioned to him that I was planning to leave, and while he was understanding, it seems like he expects the 3 month notice period to be served out entirely. I am now in a bit of a dilemma. I have an interview on Wednesday, and when they ask "What is your notice period?" I imagine saying 3 months will not suffice. I could, technically, just accept this new job, and not serve any notice period in my current place at all. Though they require the previous employer as a reference and so that's not going to go down very well. Also, I do want to be fair to my current employer. I was not provided with any handover documentation (or any documentation at all) when I joined, so I want to write some for whoever comes after me, as well as finish off the tasks I have. The reason they want me on for 3 months is because they have some big projects they want me to do (projects that in my opinion will take me over the notice period anyway leaving them half-finished). Does anyone have any tips for how I could negotiate down my notice period, or what the company I'm interviewing for is likely to think of a) a 3 month notice period or b) a person who doesn't serve their full notice period. Edit: I'm in the UK, for reference. NtotheTC fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 11:15
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Innocent Bystander posted:... Working with smarter people than you is hugely beneficial and a great way to learn. As the posters above said you could use your experience to find a good well paying job. I just wanted to add that if you do choose to ask for a salary based on your contributions and position in the company I would ask for at least 70-80k (ask for the higher amount). They can afford it. I may be a bit too high here though. Don't be taken advantage of because you're comfortable here.
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Sep 9, 2013 11:30
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If you are within a probationary period, I'd hope that door swings both ways. Reputation wise, people tend to figure out where horrible places are and the type of sludge that lives there. You might just have to burn that bridge, 'cause sane people don't ask junior devs to give three months notice. 
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Sep 9, 2013 11:38
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Yeah I was working on the assumption that the probationary period basically meant a trial for both the employer and the employee. It appears my boss thinks that the probationary period is exactly the same as my normal employment except that they get to pay me less for 3 months, so the hell with that. I guess I'll just tell this new company that I'm on my probationary period and hope that they understand if my reference is full of snarky comments.
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Sep 9, 2013 11:45
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Theler posted:Working with smarter people than you is hugely beneficial and a great way to learn. As the posters above said you could use your experience to find a good well paying job. I just wanted to add that if you do choose to ask for a salary based on your contributions and position in the company I would ask for at least 70-80k (ask for the higher amount). They can afford it. I may be a bit too high here though. Don't be taken advantage of because you're comfortable here. Yes, ask for 80k, at least. He can always say lower. I am also graduating this spring from UMN and will be at that same career fair next week. Definitely apply for positions there. The going rate for a fresh grad like me is 60k-70k. I have an internship, so I should be on the higher end for that... for you, he specifically told you you're more valuable than that, so ask accordingly. If he's not willing to give you that, you'll have to ask yourself what's more important in your life and if you're willing to take less than you're worth.
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Sep 9, 2013 12:26
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I have worked on a couple project teams where we were on multi million dollar contracts and people still just handed in their usual two week notice when they quit. Three months is downright nuts, even for "big projects."
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Sep 9, 2013 14:47
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Innocent Bystander posted:How much should I ask for? The first way to stop undervaluing yourself is to stop giving a poo poo about what's "fair" for both parties. Negotiation is how two parties that each want an unfair deal try to get to a fair one. I'm amazed at how many programmers have this attitude. It's not your job to figure out what's fair. Figure out two numbers, your ideal salary and the absolute least you'll take to work there. The former should probably be semi-unreasonable. The latter should never, ever be spoken aloud and should probably be more than you think. I'm also going to recommend not staying. It sounds like you got a ton of awesome experience and know how to sell it (hell, I'm sold). All of the things you like about this job can quickly turn sour or be taken away, especially at a small company. Not saying it would, just that it can, especially since you've already set a precedent for busting your rear end and going above and beyond. Go somewhere else and broaden your horizons or whatever.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:38
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Thirding "go somewhere else". I just spent 4 years working at 2 small companies where I got to have lots of responsibility and do a lot of awesome work but they "just couldn't afford to pay me what I'm worth". If they're not making a real effort to pay you your market value now (or make up the difference in equity), they never will. The only thing that should be a factor in your salary is your market value, not what's "fair" or what you need to get by. I'm agreeing with the above poster that it sounds like you're way ahead of the curve for a recent grad, and you know how to market it. You should definitely see what your options are before you commit. Edly fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Sep 23, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 17:09
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I'm looking at contract QA positions on Craigslist and I'm not sure what kind of rate I should be asking for. The most recent line on my resume is "QA Lead" (only 2 months, and for a tiny company, but my boss loved me and can provide a reference that yes, I did actually have that level of responsibility) but the one before that was QA Intern which probably makes it look like I was Dunner-Krugering myself into a fancy title that isn't really verifiably false. For a 6-month contract would I bill something on the order of $50/hr, something on the order of $80/hr, something on the order of $100/hr? I legit don't know because glassdoor kinda sucks at this and I have a decent idea of what I'd ask for as a salary but not really an hourly rate.
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Sep 9, 2013 19:24
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Innocent Bystander posted:Should I stay? Nothing about that work environment is unattainable elsewhere. I wouldn't work at a place where I was the smartest guy in the room. If you don't have a senior professional guiding you it doesn't matter if you're getting awesome responsibilities, you're probably not learning as much as you could. You don't necessarily need a senior programmer, if you want to pursue project management (sounds like you don't...) and are getting good mentorship there it might make sense to stay. it is posted:For a 6-month contract would I bill something on the order of $50/hr, something on the order of $80/hr, something on the order of $100/hr? I legit don't know because glassdoor kinda sucks at this and I have a decent idea of what I'd ask for as a salary but not really an hourly rate.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:14
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When I billed out to clients at $50/hr, I was doing menial crap like assembling printouts in binders and formatting excel spreadsheets, or various data entry tasks. If you're doing work that requires an actual skill, you should definitely be billing higher than that. If you have a good idea for salary, that helps narrow things down... as a general guideline, 2x salary would be the bare minimum, with 3x to 4x generally being appropriate.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:14
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I re-imagined my resume a while back, I've been meaning to get your guys' opinions. https://docs.google.com/document/d/12tzFbo0t3k6PsD1QjNxOwiWQHHrO0XdRBpktsApbZ4Q/edit?usp=sharing The feedback last time was really constructive, thanks. If there's anything else to add, please tell me.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:06
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Just some quick thoughts, you have an awful lot of empty space at the bottom now. Even if you can't bs some filler bullet points maybe just play with the formatting or something so it looks less empty. Also, I would add what month/year you either got your degree or when you expect to graduate if you're still a student. Also, I wouldn't even bother listing the pizza delivery stuff. I cashiered and worked at Wendy's for 3 years but I don't list that on my resume.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:09
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Well, I didn't list my graduation date because it's Dec. 2009, and the only reason I listed PJ's was because I've been there for 5 years. Between it and the second job I picked up, I was hoping to show that I can work hard and that I don't jump around from job to job often.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:22
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