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I'd rather have the Steel Ball Run style reboot of Battle Tendency, where the ancient president of Mexico and his glorious yet sinister cabinet must be outwitted for South America's ultimate prize... (every continent should have an insane secret on the level of SBR's goal)
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Sep 6, 2013 01:16
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Every comic should be like Steel Ball Run, period.
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Sep 6, 2013 07:50
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SBR might just be my favorite part of the series, just easing out 4 and 2 (anime version). I finally got around to finishing part 5 and reading part 6. I enjoyed 5 more than I thought I would and enjoyed 6 less than I thought I would. 5 had a kind of dull plot and forgettable enemies. Giorno wasn't entirely uninteresting but didn't bring much to the table aside from a neat power, though. What I really ended up liking was the characters. Mista, Bruno, and Narancia were really enjoyable and while Diavolo wasn't the most threatening or well-developed villain, Doppio was interesting and using objects and animals as phones never really got old. I was surprisingly okay with Turtlereff too. Part 6 on the other hand started off really solid and I enjoyed the core cast a lot. The enemy stands started to get a bit too convoluted though, and not many of the villains-of-the-day were memorable either. Pucci was an interesting villain, though it seemed a bit strange that Dio let some 16 year old church boy become a trusted ally. The flashbacks that it shows seem to portray them as friends, but just based on what we know of Dio's character from the other parts I can only assume that there was a high level of manipulation going on. Dio/Jonathan's bones and everything that unfolded from there was really strange and came out of left field. I think it's around that time that the plot started stumbling a bit. Why did the bone turn people into plants and become a homunculus thing? I'm assuming it was some kind of fail safe Dio had in case he died, but why that method? What did he do to Jonathan's bones that let him use that ability? I'm assuming that the chant of meaningless words were a password of sorts to make sure not just anyone could use the baby, but... Well, I don't know. That whole part just didn't make a lot of sense. Then there was the whole thing with Dio's 3 other sons that popped up out of nowhere. They were just random mooks despite technically being Joestars, while the fact that Giorno was Dio/Jonathan's son was treated as a huge deal by Jotaro. And speaking of Giorno, what the hell was he doing during this? It seemed like the plot point was set up for him to enter the fray or at least cameo but all we get is a hint in one of Dio's other son's profiles that Giorno might be in Florida already. I think Giorno helping to save the day would have been great. Have him set Made in Heaven to 0 while Jolyne and maybe Emporio/Weather take down Pucci. That said it was still enjoyable in the end, all though I had expected the new world to be the Steel Ball Run one rather than a slightly different version of the original timeline. I guess this way you could still have your favorite characters alive, albeit with different names. So... has Araki ever commented on some of the odder plot elements or issues? Namely Dio's second(?) coffin, Giorno and the other 3 sons, the green baby, the new universe, or anything else? Hitlersaurus Christ fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 09:02
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Giorno showing up would have been cool, but having him deus-ex-machina everything again would've made for a lame story. Pucci defeating GER could have been interesting, but only if it was by some clever means to circumvent GER's ability. If it was some wacky, magical nonsense like how (Silver Chariot) Requiem was stopped, it would just bog down a story already rife with weird magical ritual stuff that makes no sense. Edit: Dio's second coffin was likely the first. When Erina was rescued, it's possible they didn't recover it and it ultimately sank not too far from the shipwreck where Dio was. Tobaccrow fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 09:31
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Pucci was able to attract and manipulate the trio of forgettable Diospawn because they were down in the dumps and weak-willed for some reason or other. On the other hand, Giorno was a goddamn mob boss with an iron will at the time, so it'd be really odd if he were affected.
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Sep 6, 2013 09:53
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Cerebral Bore posted:Pucci was able to attract and manipulate the trio of forgettable Diospawn because they were down in the dumps and weak-willed for some reason or other.
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Sep 6, 2013 09:57
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Silver2195 posted:Everyone who reads it assumes that it's time travel at first, but it's just a random guy. A pretty clever twist, in a way. I always assumed it was some dude, considering it's only a haircut origin story.
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Sep 6, 2013 10:23
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Kurtofan posted:I always assumed it was some dude, considering it's only a haircut origin story.
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Sep 6, 2013 11:35
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But how can hair have a Stand when it's already dead? I mean that literally. Hair is made up of dead skin cells.
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Sep 6, 2013 12:35
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We've seen stands activate on the user's death 
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Sep 6, 2013 13:48
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Cerebral Bore posted:Pucci was able to attract and manipulate the trio of forgettable Diospawn because they were down in the dumps and weak-willed for some reason or other. I will never forget that Dio sired an evil, lovely clone of the main character from Holes.
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Sep 6, 2013 13:56
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:That said it was still enjoyable in the end, all though I had expected the new world to be the Steel Ball Run one rather than a slightly different version of the original timeline. I guess this way you could still have your favorite characters alive, albeit with different names. As far as I can tell it could have ended in the SBR universe. The big differences in the Joestar family tree start happening with Jotaro, since Holly married someone else and had a different kid. Every Joestar up to that point existed in the SBR universe, but the two that Pucci wiped from the timeline don't. So far we haven't seen 2012 SBR Florida so we have no idea if Irene and friends are there. Unless Araki said somewhere that they're not the same universe and I'm speculating for nothing
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Sep 6, 2013 14:23
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Nahxela posted:We've seen stands activate on the user's death
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Sep 6, 2013 14:35
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One thing I note about Dio's non-Giorno sons is that they appear in order from weakest willed to strongest. Ungaro gives up as soon as his Stand is countered, Rykiel sees Jolyne set herself on fire to beat him and antes up, and then Donatello is all "gently caress your plan, I'm gonna be the one Made in Heaven." Which was a pretty big deal given how readily the other two devoted themselves to Pucci, in addition to fate itself seeming to be on his side. Still hard for me to call them weird when they're sandwiched between Green Baby and Heavy Weather though.
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Sep 6, 2013 14:47
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Versace loving owns, how many guys in manga do you know summon the Miami Dolphins to fight for him? Not a lot man.Hitlersaurus Christ posted:
Nah, not really. Usually most of these plot elements were really badly handled by him and he more often than not he would rather not talk about them.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:30
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Supersonic Shine posted:So the pompadour was possibly like a never-living version of Foo Fighters, then. A collective of dead cells that "controlled" a stand.  Just sayin'...
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Sep 6, 2013 16:07
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Between the ending and stuff like Pucci hiring the KKK, Part 6 is probably the darkest in the whole series.
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Sep 6, 2013 17:38
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Part 6 on the other hand started off really solid and I enjoyed the core cast a lot. The enemy stands started to get a bit too convoluted though, and not many of the villains-of-the-day were memorable either. Pucci was an interesting villain, though it seemed a bit strange that Dio let some 16 year old church boy become a trusted ally. The flashbacks that it shows seem to portray them as friends, but just based on what we know of Dio's character from the other parts I can only assume that there was a high level of manipulation going on. Dio/Jonathan's bones and everything that unfolded from there was really strange and came out of left field. I think it's around that time that the plot started stumbling a bit. Why did the bone turn people into plants and become a homunculus thing? I'm assuming it was some kind of fail safe Dio had in case he died, but why that method? What did he do to Jonathan's bones that let him use that ability? I'm assuming that the chant of meaningless words were a password of sorts to make sure not just anyone could use the baby. Tobaccrow posted:Giorno showing up would have been cool, but having him deus-ex-machina everything again would've made for a lame story. Pucci defeating GER could have been interesting, but only if it was by some clever means to circumvent GER's ability. If it was some wacky, magical nonsense like how (Silver Chariot) Requiem was stopped, it would just bog down a story already rife with weird magical ritual stuff that makes no sense. You do know Gio does not have GER anymore. GE lost the Arrow right after he beat Diavolo. Though maybe Araki forgot this and this is why he did not have Giorno show up.
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Sep 6, 2013 22:57
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I do not recall anything that indicated GER was limited one way or the other, to be fair though I haven't read Part 5 in about two years and I also don't have a high opinion of it, so I expect something like that to have just been forgotten rather than explained.
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Sep 6, 2013 23:26
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Sticky Fingers is a cooler stand anyways.
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Sep 6, 2013 23:45
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Nahxela posted:Sticky Fingers is a cooler stand anyways. Sticky Fingers has always been one of my favorites because I consider it the peak of, "This power is loving stupid, but man does it fight good." That said, I actually like vanilla Gold Experience's power. I think it could have been used in some interesting ways. Araki just fell back on a bad shonen habit of going, "What power do I need to give Giorno to get him out of this," instead of doing what makes a lot of JoJo's fights satisfying and going, "How do I used what powers and what else is around to have whoever win this fight?"
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Sep 7, 2013 01:10
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Part of what made GER and King Crimson kind of lame to me was that it was basically a rehash of The World and Star Platinum. Jotaro and Dio was pretty great at first, but with Giorno and Diavolo, it was just a similar sort of time manipulation versus time manipulation thing. A number of the other arcs also had final antagonists with time manipulating abilities, but the way the characters were written to deal with that ability tended to be a little more interesting. I think I would be more interested in the end fight of Part 8 if Josuke doesn't have to fight another time manipulating guy, not that I know what's going to happen.
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Sep 7, 2013 02:14
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I'd like GE a lot more if it didn't have a stupid power like "Giving life" which can easily be twisted as the author sees fit, because that's just such an abstract concept that has no actual defined outlines. It's sort of like how Josuke's healing ability isn't really clearly defined, but at least Josuke uses it in a consistent way that shows us that he can't just bring you back from the dead if he feels like it.
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Sep 7, 2013 02:24
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Honestly, I think the vagueness of Giorno's stand is what gave us Jolyne's stand power of "Is a string". So some good came out of it, at least.
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Sep 7, 2013 02:25
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Nahxela posted:Part of what made GER and King Crimson kind of lame to me was that it was basically a rehash of The World and Star Platinum. Jotaro and Dio was pretty great at first, but with Giorno and Diavolo, it was just a similar sort of time manipulation versus time manipulation thing. A number of the other arcs also had final antagonists with time manipulating abilities, but the way the characters were written to deal with that ability tended to be a little more interesting. I think I would be more interested in the end fight of Part 8 if Josuke doesn't have to fight another time manipulating guy, not that I know what's going to happen. Every final villain since part 3 has had time manipulation. The World, Killer Queen Bites the Dust, King Crimson, Made in Heaven, The World (again). Even if you don't count part 7 since Valentine was the antagonist and Diego + The World only showed up right at the end, instead of time he could manipulate space which is practically the same thing. It would be weird if part 8's final antagonist couldn't do anything with time.
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Sep 7, 2013 02:31
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Kabanaw posted:Every final villain since part 3 has had time manipulation. The World, Killer Queen Bites the Dust, King Crimson, Made in Heaven, The World (again). Even if you don't count part 7 since Valentine was the antagonist and Diego + The World only showed up right at the end, instead of time he could manipulate space which is practically the same thing. It would be weird if part 8's final antagonist couldn't do anything with time. In any case, I didn't mind Killer Queen, Made in Heaven, and D4C as much because the way they were fought wasn't just a sort of "I can also stop time so your time stop doesn't help," and usually involved some other stand abilities, like Hermes using her stickers with bullets to use it as a sort of high speed transport or the Stray Cat/Killer Queen air bomb combo. e: I guess D4C kind of was fought like that. Nahxela fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 02:36
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I dunno. How much else can you even do with time? Slowed but not stopped? Faster, but not infinitely fast? Skipped, but not in any of the three previous ways its been skipped? Edit: Four ways. Forgot Ringo Roadagain. HitTheTargets fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 03:38
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A stand that literally time travels?
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Sep 7, 2013 03:46
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A stand that pulls stuff from other points in time. Turn the ground your opponent is on into a primordial sea, rip a platoon of soldiers from the battle this memorial was erected for, stuff like that.
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Sep 7, 2013 03:49
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Underworld was kind of sort of that.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:00
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I was thinking instead of replaying events, actually unsticking stuff from time. Heck, the consequences of that could drive an entire part.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:03
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Mr. Maltose posted:I was thinking instead of replaying events, actually unsticking stuff from time. Heck, the consequences of that could drive an entire part. Or the potential insanity. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part XII: All JoJos 
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Sep 7, 2013 04:06
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mr. stefan posted:Or the potential insanity. It'll be a huge Battle, featuring All the Stars.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:20
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Mr. Maltose posted:A stand that pulls stuff from other points in time. Turn the ground your opponent is on into a primordial sea, rip a platoon of soldiers from the battle this memorial was erected for, stuff like that. Sounds like Crazy Diamond.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:55
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A stand that uses straight up time travel could be cool. It would need some kind of limitation, though, or the user could easily go back and kill his enemies when they're zygotes or something. But I have no doubt that Araki could do amazing things with it.
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Sep 7, 2013 05:12
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I'd like GE a lot more if it didn't have a stupid power like "Giving life" which can easily be twisted as the author sees fit, because that's just such an abstract concept that has no actual defined outlines. It's sort of like how Josuke's healing ability isn't really clearly defined, but at least Josuke uses it in a consistent way that shows us that he can't just bring you back from the dead if he feels like it. That's what I meant. Had Araki stuck with how he defined GE at the beginning then it'd have been fine. He just kept adding arbitrary but vaguely related things. "Ok, now it means he can make spare body parts from random junk." "Ok, now he can bring someone back to life in a weird way where they're still dead I think." "Ok, now I can't think of a way to stretch that any further, so vaguely defined time powers." It'd be like if Jolyne suddenly realized she could regenerate wounds by eating balls of yarn and ending up as some sort of horrible human/sweater hybrid. Soulcleaver posted:It would need some kind of limitation, though, or the user could easily go back and kill his enemies when they're zygotes or something. Maybe the user has to have marked a point in time they've been to before and can only travel back to that specific point. They can set up a new point, but then they lose the first point forever. Sounds a little too close to Bites the Dust, though, so maybe their condition stays constant even if they travel backwards. onepixeljumpman fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 05:35
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Making spare body parts was perfectly legit. Bringing Bruno back to life though, yeah, that was a stretch.
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Sep 7, 2013 06:22
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Making spare body parts was perfectly legit. Bringing Bruno back to life though, yeah, that was a stretch. I don't think he did bring Bruno back to life. That was all Bruno.
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Sep 7, 2013 06:58
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't think he did bring Bruno back to life. That was all Bruno. He used Sticky Fingers and zipped death away.
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Sep 7, 2013 07:55
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It's been a while, but I thought that was him being unable to die differently from how Rolling Stone predicted or something. They just assumed it was Gold Experience.
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Sep 7, 2013 08:00
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