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ghostwritingduck posted:I'm also intrigued because it looks like it might actually raise discussion about Drones. Good point. So long as you have avoided virtually every other national/international news source for the past ~2 years, along with almost every movie, TV show, book or other medium for fiction dealing with modern warfare or the War on Terror or American Diplomacy over the past decade or etc etc etc...then Robocop (the remake) will finally serve as that thing that raises discussion about the cons of drone warfare. Also assuming you haven't seen the 2005 Opus Stealth
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Sep 6, 2013 13:36
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massive spider posted:The hand is reportedly some kind of legal loophole thing, its permissible to use robots in law enforcement so long as a human hand pulls the trigger. If this is true this is absolutely amazing and plays a complete joke on all the legal loopholes we go through. I'm really hoping they are trying to catch the satire. If the director really did have to fight the studios as much as he did, it sounds like he may "get" RoboCop and got the sattire in. Let's face it. Over the top high budget CGI action scenes are pretty much satire of themselves at this point. Drones? Airborne AND land based (ED-209)? Yeah. And the cliched armor AFTER we get a look at that amazing looking classic suit. I dont know. I'm afraid to get hopeful. I wasn't expecting to be excited AT ALL going in to the trailer...but now I'm optimistic. Cautious, but optimistic.
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Sep 6, 2013 14:07
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davidspackage posted:I'm trying not to judge the Robocop remake by comparison to its original, but what hits me immediately about the trailer is that Robo just looks like a guy in a fancy suit, not a ruined man grafted onto a metal construction.  This is an idiot in a plastic open-face balaclava. Notice how he looks like a dude at a costume party.  This is the remains of a human corpse wedged into a cradle of silicon and steel, a dead man's face mockingly affixed to its front. Notice how this closely resembles more a golem than a man and highlights the nightmarish waking death that has befallen the souless shade of Peter Murphy. (Really, the makeup effect they used in the original made it look as though OCP literally harvested his face and strapped it on as something close to an afterthought. It really struck me, and still does, as representing the thin veneer of false humanity they wished to slap on for the sake of some PR intern.)
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Sep 6, 2013 14:18
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LeJackal posted:
I feel the same way, but you put it much better than I would have. I really (REALLY) like the original Robocop. I liked the second one, the third and the series were poo poo. I'm really interested in the choice of Padilha as the director, Keaton and Oldman are fantastic, but I'm not getting a very good feeling from the new trailer. I know a lot can change between now and when the movie is released, but someone brought up Total Recall and I really hope that's not as apt a comparison as it seems like it will be. The new Total Recall, while having a good cast (Bill Nighy and Bryan Cranston were both in it), was pretty much forgettable. There's no reason that a movie about a robot cop (a RoboCop, if you will) should be forgettable.
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Sep 6, 2013 14:40
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I'm wondering, though, if the idea isn't that this Robocop is more in touch with what he used to be. I dunno. I'm willing to wait and see but the preview isn't terribly well done either. This may end up being like the Thing remake/prequel/thingy, where it's worth catching on cable eventually.
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Sep 6, 2013 14:52
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Maxwell Lord posted:I'm wondering, though, if the idea isn't that this Robocop is more in touch with what he used to be. I dunno. If he starts out as being 'more in touch with his humanity' it sort of guts the 'regains humanity' angle though, don't you think?
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Sep 6, 2013 15:08
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Maybe he starts out being very human but then they keep reprogramming him until he's basically just a robot. Then he fights this somehow and at the end of the movie he's regained some of himself again The way he spoke in parts of the trailer made it seem he was very human still, compared to the original robocop
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Sep 6, 2013 15:11
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LeJackal posted:If he starts out as being 'more in touch with his humanity' it sort of guts the 'regains humanity' angle though, don't you think? Well, they could replace that with "struggling to retain his humanity". There's actually a really good short story along those lines- a celebrated dancer is mortally wounded in a fire, they transfer her brain to a robot body, at first it seems like it's okay and they've all got her back, but there's clearly something mechanical creeping in... drat, will have to dig up the book to cite that more specifically. But you could do sort of a Cronenbergian "you want to be the same old person but you won't be" thing.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:14
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well, they could replace that with "struggling to retain his humanity". They won't, though. Its a PG-13 focus-group tested slickified 'safe bet' remake of a popular franchise from the past loaded with nostalgia that pretty much ensures the exclusion of: A) Any form of intellectual exercise, including difficult questions on the nature of identity and the process of death, the machinations of corporatism and subsumation of the individual, or the quintessential struggle for humanity to separate the self from technology. B) Any visceral or 'gory' visuals that would shock the viewer into a state of mental/emotional vulnerability that would allow for penetrating observations or reflections on a number of topics or that would add a sense of realism to ground the fantastic elements. In short, the film promises to be sterile and impotent both visually and intellectually - the exact opposite of Cronenberg, who has always sought to push the limits of the essential question; Who am I? Either by questioning the boundaries of the body and its uselessness as a border of self, or the mental/emotional aspect of identity which is even more malleable and less reliable than flesh, Cronenberg would seem to be the antithesis of the presented film in scope and depth.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:30
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Based purely on the trailer, at best it seems like the twist/insight of the movie could be that now Murphy is completely unnessisary to the robocop equation. In Robocop and Robocop 2, it was generally accepted that Murphy ended up being a vital part of the equation- in 1 he provides the wisdom and humanity that keeps ED-209 from being anything other than a total failure, while in 2 it's that Murphy is somehow uniquely suited to the terrifying emptiness of the robocop existence. Here it seems like OCP already has a functional robot, and Murphy is just a PR face to it. This would have been a nice little surprise for act 3, had it not been spelled out in the trailer.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:41
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DeclaredYuppie posted:Based purely on the trailer, at best it seems like the twist/insight of the movie could be that now Murphy is completely unnessisary to the robocop equation. In Robocop and Robocop 2, it was generally accepted that Murphy ended up being a vital part of the equation- in 1 he provides the wisdom and humanity that keeps ED-209 from being anything other than a total failure, while in 2 it's that Murphy is somehow uniquely suited to the terrifying emptiness of the robocop existence. Here it seems like OCP already has a functional robot, and Murphy is just a PR face to it. Its also unfortunately undermined by the terrible costume/makeup design.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:46
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LeJackal posted:They won't, though. Its a PG-13 focus-group tested slickified 'safe bet' remake of a popular franchise from the past loaded with nostalgia that pretty much ensures the exclusion of: I'm not sold on the film at all, mind you. It being soulless and bland is a very real possibility. All I'm saying is that there is in theory potential- as great a film as the original is, the premise is broad enough that a remake could work, and actually changing a few key elements could help this film avoid being just a retread of things that Verhoeven already did better. It may not be enough of a change to actually get out from the original's shadow, though.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:48
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LeJackal posted:Its also unfortunately undermined by the terrible costume/makeup design. Yeah by the way your observation/comparison of the suits above is spot-on.  Also in line with that observation- re-watching the trailer all of Robocop's movements look like a guy wearing a heavy suit of armor. It's a little bulky/awkward, but it's generally natural, fluid and coordinated like a normal person walking around. I have to imagine someone watching the original while writing this one and thinking "Man, people had dumb ideas about how a robot would move back then! It should move all slick and cool! Like *whoosh cha-chick blam blam blam*" He then went back to class after recess. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 15:51
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You know that Robocop trailer really did kill any discussion of Gravity. But it's okay because the ED-209 made an appearance.
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Sep 6, 2013 15:53
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:But like dundun said, a big reason the original worked so well is because it had so much of the 80s in it. What? I think you're letting nostalgia come in and cloud the issue up too much. When Robocop came out no one loved it because it "has so much of the 80s in it" because it was the 80s at the current time. I think if you can't break out of this mindset you are probably doomed to not like anything in the new one. DivisionPost posted:The pattern I'm seeing is "This trailer is bad because it isn't 80's Robocop." Pretty much. kiimo posted:You know that Robocop trailer really did kill any discussion of Gravity. But it's okay because the ED-209 made an appearance. To be fair Gravity looks amazing and I will be seeing it opening night, but drat if I haven't been eagerly waiting for anything to be shown of Robocop.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:17
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ApexAftermath posted:What? I think you're letting nostalgia come in and cloud the issue up too much. When Robocop came out no one loved it because it "has so much of the 80s in it" because it was the 80s at the current time. I think if you can't break out of this mindset you are probably doomed to not like anything in the new one. While there is something to your objection, I think you're glossing over legitimate complaints to focus on the less well-founded nostalgia angle. There are plenty of issues with the trailer and the movie as presented.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:20
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ApexAftermath posted:What? I think you're letting nostalgia come in and cloud the issue up too much. When Robocop came out no one loved it because it "has so much of the 80s in it" because it was the 80s at the current time. I think if you can't break out of this mindset you are probably doomed to not like anything in the new one.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:34
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I enjoy the director's previous work immensely and don't trust trailers at all. Trailers almost kept me from seeing You're Next.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:36
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ApexAftermath posted:What? I think you're letting nostalgia come in and cloud the issue up too much. When Robocop came out no one loved it because it "has so much of the 80s in it" because it was the 80s at the current time. I think if you can't break out of this mindset you are probably doomed to not like anything in the new one. I think this is unfair. Yeah there are people who are unhappy just because they don't like new stuff, but for me it's that the original Robocop was like introductory high-school literature. While accessable as an action film, the themes, imagrey and allegories were numerous, well layered and easy to pull out and analyze. It's not a "greatest of all time" movie, but you could return to it an re-interpret it a number of times and feel rewarded. It also took risks in its empty protagonist and even emptier victory at the end. This movie looks like genre fiction by comparison. I can't tell if the visuals or message are doing much to present something I didn't see in Minority Report a decade ago. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 16:49
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Maybe I need to see it on the big screen, but Gravity trailers aren't doing it for me. Too much "Sandra Bullock freaking out and stuff around her getting hit by space debris leading to more freakouts"
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Sep 6, 2013 18:08
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kiimo posted:You know that Robocop trailer really did kill any discussion of Gravity. But it's okay because the ED-209 made an appearance. Except ED-209 was literally the first thing from the movie we saw, in viral marketing - what, a year ago now?
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Sep 6, 2013 18:14
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Democratic Pirate posted:Maybe I need to see it on the big screen, but Gravity trailers aren't doing it for me. Too much "Sandra Bullock freaking out and stuff around her getting hit by space debris leading to more freakouts" Yes, same here. I really want to like it, as space movies done right are right up my alley, but all I can think is "that's sandra bullock and those are special effects." It's the same with the majority of Tom Cruise films for me. Something like Moon, I can watch no problem and not get drawn out of it, but somehow big name actors ruin scifi for me. Had a similar experience all within one movie, where I bought mooni rapace but was thoroughly taken out of the movie by Charlize THeron in Prometheus.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:59
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LeJackal posted:
Live action Mega Man is looking good.
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Sep 6, 2013 19:08
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Democratic Pirate posted:Maybe I need to see it on the big screen, but Gravity trailers aren't doing it for me. Too much "Sandra Bullock freaking out and stuff around her getting hit by space debris leading to more freakouts" It might be the triggering of memories of the MIR scene from Armageddon, what with the constant explosions and trained professionals screaming and flailing around like idiots. If what I've heard is true and most of the movie is Bullock floating in space then this campaign will only serve to piss off those wanting 'splosions, and turn away those wanting something more introspective.
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Sep 6, 2013 19:33
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t3h z0r posted:Children of Men is probably in my top 5 films and Clooney my fave actor, but nothing in the Gravity campaign has sold me. Yeah, God forbid a human acts scared when she is LITERALLY JETTISONING INTO SPACE because her spaceship is EXPLODING AROUND HER.
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Sep 6, 2013 19:38
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Mourning Due posted:Yes, same here. I really want to like it, as space movies done right are right up my alley, but all I can think is "that's sandra bullock and those are special effects." That's what took you out of Prometheus? 
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Sep 6, 2013 19:47
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GonSmithe posted:Yeah, God forbid a human acts scared when she is LITERALLY JETTISONING INTO SPACE because her spaceship is EXPLODING AROUND HER. That's not how *I* would've done it.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:02
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LeJackal posted:If he starts out as being 'more in touch with his humanity' it sort of guts the 'regains humanity' angle though, don't you think? Who says "regains humanity" is the plot of the film? Judging for the trailer it looks like he wakes right up presuming he's still human, so you've diverged from the original arc already. Honestly I'm happier the more things they change. If you're gonna do this the last thing I want is a beat for beat remake.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:02
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Re: Robocop Samuel Jackson says "This is the future of American justice." That should be ringing your satire bell. In the original, Robocop was sold to the public as a robot, which was a lie. This time around, it seems Robocop is being presented to the public as human, which is a lie in a different way. That Robocop is a human brain who is unable to make decisions that contradict his superiors because of systemic restrictions is maintained. Robocop's face needs to be different because of the above. 1987 Robocop's face was horrifying because the public was never meant to see it. His helmet was fastened down hard and Lewis had to unscrew several bolts it to take it off. 2014 Robocop's face looks like a guy in a suit and his helmet easily pops up and down because his face is meant to be seen by the public, he is meant to interact with his family, he is supposed to look somewhat reassuring that the Robocop program is a Good Thing™. They want people to see his face. "Look, we saved this brave law enforcement officer with technology" OCP is going to tell the public, leaving out the fact that they've programmed him to lose his free will. There is actually something more insidious about this. There are hovering drone fighters shooting on cities, which should be ringing your "political commentary" bell. Yes, it's late to the "drones are evil" commentary that Iron Man 3 and Star Trek 12 already did, but at least this movie has some more thought put into it than "let's put the same Robocop in 2014!" Robocop 1987's appearance represented the 80's pretty well, since he was clunky and silver and ED-209 had a grill like a boombox. They looked like 80's electronics. As someone pointed out several months ago, Robocop 2014's appearance mirrors our modern electronics: black metal and glass. There is so much going on in this trailer if you spend more than five seconds to think about it. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 20:16
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massive spider posted:Honestly I'm happier the more things they change. If you're gonna do this the last thing I want is a beat for beat remake. Here's another one: The restrictions on 1987 Robocop's brain only prevented him from performing actions that were not in OCP's interests. It could only prevent him from doing things, but it couldn't force him to do things. The trailer for the 2014 Robocop seem to suggest that OCP has the ability to make Robocop do things against his will, and trick him into thinking he wanted to do it. There's a lot of potential there for taking the story in a new direction.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:36
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Steve Yun posted:Here's another one: The restrictions on 1987 Robocop's brain only prevented him from performing actions that were not in OCP's interests. It could only prevent him from doing things, but it couldn't force him to do things. The trailer for the 2014 Robocop seem to suggest that OCP has the ability to make Robocop do things against his will, and trick him into thinking he wanted to do it. So what you're saying is that they lifted the plot from the Sega CD classic, Wirehead
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Sep 6, 2013 21:03
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Dunno if you can steal a story idea from a game nobody ever played
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Sep 6, 2013 21:09
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Steve Yun posted:Re: Robocop SLJ's line is ringing everyone's satire bell. It's just also ringing a lot of people's "This is loving obvious and tired and totally uninteresting satire" bell as well. Saying we shouldn't militarize or corpratize a police force has been said in a thousand dystopian books and movies and tv shows before...including the original Robocop and its sequels. Why should this movie get anything other than an eyeroll for repeating it? Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 22:22
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Well I guess that depends on whether you're asking the people who dislike it for not being identical to the original, people who dislike it for being not good or something, or people that dislike it because robocop is neither robo nor cop enough. I'm a simple country cyborg, so personally I say it should get more than an eyeroll right now because all there is is a trailer. That being said, cyberpardner, I don't like the original robocop and I am getting more neurocircuit jollies out of watching a brouhaha develop over the film. Now I've got to carbonsaddle up and ride into the Solset. Giddyup!
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Sep 6, 2013 22:34
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DeclaredYuppie posted:SLJ's line is ringing everyone's satire bell. It's just also ringing a lot of people's "This is loving obvious and tired and totally uninteresting satire" bell as well. As you say, dystopian scifi books and movies covering militarized police existed before 1987, where do you draw the line on what's tired, 1988? And c'mon, If you're going to criticize 2014 Robocop over being "obvious," 1987 Robocop had the subtlety of a sledgehammer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-2WPo0yE9w Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 22:40
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Steve Yun posted:Why would you criticize this Robocop over it when the satire in the 1987 Robocop was "obvious" and "tired" already as well? Dystopian scifi books and movies covering militarized police existed before 1987, and that Robocop had the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Because it was far more original 25 years ago to layer that satire and message into an action movie than it is today. Because the new Robocop gets to crutch itself on the previous movie and that one didn't. Because it was willing to go sledgehammer and (with the hindsight of seeing the whole thing) make it work while still keeping the movie together. Because more than 1 actor looked to be enjoying themselves in that one. Because that one used intense violence and body horrors to make the audience uncomfortable. Because that one seemed to have a philisophic concept of "Self" and "mind" worth caring about. Because the original took risks with an unrelateable protagonist and ultimately hollow ending. Maybe the new Robocop will turn out amazing. But there's nothing in the trailer that says to me it's anything but a shallow action film with a paper-thin message.
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Sep 6, 2013 23:11
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You criticize the new one for being too obvious with its satire, and praise the old one for being obvious in its satire. You criticize this new one for being shallow, but also criticize it for being too much like the original. You're criticizing this one based on its trailer but you're praising the old one based on stuff you never would've gotten from its trailers. C'mon. What this boils down to is that you just don't want a remake. Try to keep an open mind! Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 23:58
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I think not wanting a remake of a classic movie that still holds up extremely well to this day is a valid opinion  Especially when the trailer for said remake doesn't inspire much confidence that it'll be as much of an achievement as the original.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:12
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I think not wanting a remake of a classic movie that still holds up extremely well to this day is a valid opinion It is a valid opinion, but it is not an opinion that can be credibly held against the movie itself. You're saying "This movie is going to be bad because it shouldn't exist." Think about that for a second.
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Sep 7, 2013 01:52
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DivisionPost posted:It is a valid opinion, but it is not an opinion that can be credibly held against the movie itself. You're saying "This movie is going to be bad because it shouldn't exist." Think about that for a second. I don't think Robocop should be remade, but if a remake were to come out that actually looked like it would be above average and watchable, I'd be totally on board with it. But I don't get that vibe at all from this trailer.
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Sep 7, 2013 01:57
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