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El_Matarife posted:Let's talk about this from a business needs perspective for a minute. Assume for a minute you're not building massive scale web or similar applications on top of open source. Let's say you're at a Windows + IIS + Java + MS SQL 2008R2 shop with all kind of proprietary software in the mix. What's Open Stack going to get you in this scenario? This is a scenario where you absolutely should just use VMware. You do not want or need a "cloud" infrastructure if all you're doing is taking a couple racks of physical boxes doing special snowflake tasks and condensing them down to 3 physical hosts. I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that you should move to RHEV or XenServer or something under all or even most circumstances.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:50
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El_Matarife posted:Let's talk about this from a business needs perspective for a minute. Assume for a minute you're not building massive scale web or similar applications on top of open source. Let's say you're at a Windows + IIS + Java + MS SQL 2008R2 shop with all kind of proprietary software in the mix. What's Open Stack going to get you in this scenario? Does OpenStack have the same catalog / policy based rapid deployment capabilities of the vCloud suite for "pets" not "cattle"? My sense of VMware's goal with vCloud is to make it easy to deploy new VMs from templates with disaster recovery, server hardening, network configuration, etc all attached and super easy. And now I understand OpenStack is all about rapidly spinning up or killing identical images in an API driven way that programmers can easily work with. If what you're looking for is something that incrementally enhances your productivity and takes some of the repetitive steps out of provisioning systems the exact same way you would do them with bare vSphere, vCloud Director is the right tool for the job. It's not the approach or the market that OpenStack or AWS are reaching for. OpenStack and AWS don't rely on images, per se, but they're designed for systems that function with a high degree of automation and minimal interaction. El_Matarife posted:Would you agree that cloud computing and virtualization are totally different models?
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Sep 4, 2013 20:17
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El_Matarife posted:Let's talk about this from a business needs perspective for a minute. Assume for a minute you're not building massive scale web or similar applications on top of open source. Let's say you're at a Windows + IIS + Java + MS SQL 2008R2 shop with all kind of proprietary software in the mix. El_Matarife posted:What's Open Stack going to get you in this scenario? El_Matarife posted:Does OpenStack have the same catalog / policy based rapid deployment capabilities of the vCloud suite for "pets" not "cattle"? El_Matarife posted:My sense of VMware's goal with vCloud is to make it easy to deploy new VMs from templates with disaster recovery, server hardening, network configuration, etc all attached and super easy. El_Matarife posted:
El_Matarife posted:Would you agree that cloud computing and virtualization are totally different models? No. There's some overlap, because virtualization is a superset of "cloud computing" and IaaS in most respects. El_Matarife posted:If so, would you then agree that vCloud way more of a virtualization product and OpenStack is a cloud computing product? Edit: Docjowles posted:I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that you should move to RHEV or XenServer or something under all or even most circumstances. evol262 fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 21:20
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I made a few posts regarding possibly implementing two EMC Data Domains for my company. Though they look nice, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that EMC is overkill/too pricey for us. As a cheaper alternative, I was thinking of grabbing two Dell EqualLogic PS4100E w/ 24TB of 7200rpm SAS drives for 13k a pop, paired with Veeam. It looks like the enterprise plus version of Veeam has some features that make it look like it's worth the extra cash. Would WAN acceleration be something I should go for with Veeam? Two offices; Seattle (20mbps EoC) and Portland (12mpbs bonded T1's). I really want to eliminate a ridiculous $2200 monthly charge we're paying for a local IT company to "manage" our crappy (non vm level) backups that they can't even tell me WHERE they're sending our backups to offsite. Anyone have any input on going with EqualLogic's paired with Veeam, replicating to one another over an MPLS network?
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Sep 4, 2013 22:40
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I've got DR4000s with Backup Exec 2012 (Ugh) and it's a huge pain in the rear end. The DR4000s are OK, I guess, but the dedupe capability rests on a specialized driver and licensing Symantec PureDisk (that wasn't purchased by the previous team) so I've basically got a huge CIFS share. Everything I hear about Data Domain makes it sound truly fantastic, especially if paired with Avamar. My biggest complaint is the DR4000 web interface times out sometimes when making changes or the changes don't fully commit, which seems really buggy. I'm about a year behind in software upgrades so maybe they fixed the issue. Replication speeds didn't seem really great either. You could also consider vRanger now that Dell owns Quest who bought VizionCore. vRanger was like THE VMware backup product a few years ago but I have no idea how time has treated it.Misogynist posted:Pets don't have rapid deployment, at least not in the sense of what constitutes "rapid deployment" nowadays. That's precisely what makes them pets, and precisely why most organizations want cattle instead. This is why vCloud Director was such an apocryphal product: it adds a lot of complexity but doesn't fundamentally change the way that people get work done. Well, rapid in terms of hours instead of a day or two. If you look at your standard piece of commercial software, you need what, at least two web servers, two database servers, maybe two app servers? And then you may need them hardened for regulatory / compliance reasons, you need them replicating to your DR site, you want your shares / quotas / pools done, etc. If they're killing vCloud Director and putting all those capabilities in vCenter, that would be fantastic. Right now, unless you've got a bunch of advanced vCLI Powershell scripts, you've got to run the deploy VM from template wizard six times, then go in and run vCenter Configuration Manager against the new VMs to harden them, then add them to SRM, adjust all the pool and share and quota settings, etc. It's maybe an hour per VM and like 5 different control panels to touch, assuming you've got VAAI with a good SAN and your templates clone fast. Deploying an application might cost you a whole day in vCenter before you can even start installing software. Misogynist posted:If what you're looking for is something that incrementally enhances your productivity and takes some of the repetitive steps out of provisioning systems the exact same way you would do them with bare vSphere, vCloud Director is the right tool for the job. It's not the approach or the market that OpenStack or AWS are reaching for. OpenStack and AWS don't rely on images, per se, but they're designed for systems that function with a high degree of automation and minimal interaction. The catalog based sandbox deployment they use in the VMware Hands On Labs site is pretty much exactly what I'd like to do for dev /QA teams. And I'd love fancier templating with more attached policies and guest customization steps like "Install IIS" or "Enable this server role". If that's going to be in vCenter going forward, great, I'll save a ton of money not buying the full cloud suite.
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Sep 4, 2013 23:42
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El_Matarife posted:Well, rapid in terms of hours instead of a day or two. If you look at your standard piece of commercial software, you need what, at least two web servers, two database servers, maybe two app servers? And then you may need them hardened for regulatory / compliance reasons, you need them replicating to your DR site, you want your shares / quotas / pools done, etc. If they're killing vCloud Director and putting all those capabilities in vCenter, that would be fantastic. Right now, unless you've got a bunch of advanced vCLI Powershell scripts, you've got to run the deploy VM from template wizard six times, then go in and run vCenter Configuration Manager against the new VMs to harden them, then add them to SRM, adjust all the pool and share and quota settings, etc. It's maybe an hour per VM and like 5 different control panels to touch, assuming you've got VAAI with a good SAN and your templates clone fast. Deploying an application might cost you a whole day in vCenter before you can even start installing software. quote:The catalog based sandbox deployment they use in the VMware Hands On Labs site is pretty much exactly what I'd like to do for dev /QA teams. And I'd love fancier templating with more attached policies and guest customization steps like "Install IIS" or "Enable this server role". If that's going to be in vCenter going forward, great, I'll save a ton of money not buying the full cloud suite.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:05
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evol262 posted:This is why you're deploying sysprepped clones, right? With RunOnce deployment scripts? Or tied into SCCM? Honestly, I thought vCloud Director was going to become a full fledged configuration management system to replace SCCM and complement vCenter Configuration Manager. I really don't want two separate suites from Microsoft and VMware managing the same set of VMs and I think we're pretty set on vCenter Configuration Manager since we need something for hosts and guests. What other config managament products are worth looking into on Windows? Do you have any good source for off the shelf deployment scripts?
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Sep 5, 2013 00:46
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El_Matarife posted:Honestly, I thought vCloud Director was going to become a full fledged configuration management system to replace SCCM and complement vCenter Configuration Manager. I really don't want two separate suites from Microsoft and VMware managing the same set of VMs and I think we're pretty set on vCenter Configuration Manager since we need something for hosts and guests. What other config managament products are worth looking into on Windows? vCloud director gives you VMs and lets you manage the network around said VMs in a fairly straightforward manner. Things like config management and application deployment are all up to you. It's fine to layer tools as long as you understand how they inter-operate. There's nothing saying that you can't use openstack to build your windows VMs and provide storage and then have SCCM come in later to do whatever magic it's going to do. What is it you're trying to get to? Everything I've heard you mention thus far can be done today with just vCenter server. Some of it could be taken a step further with vCenter orchestrator and/or powershell. quote:Right now, unless you've got a bunch of advanced vCLI Powershell scripts, you've got to run the deploy VM from template wizard six times, then go in and run vCenter Configuration Manager against the new VMs to harden them, then add them to SRM, adjust all the pool and share and quota settings, etc. It's maybe an hour per VM and like 5 different control panels to touch, assuming you've got VAAI with a good SAN and your templates clone fast. All of these are opportunities for automation. At the last gig I did VMware config manager I actually had the provisioned virtual machines call "home" (aka vCM) and register. Then they would immediately begin pulling down packages, changing configs or whatever needed to happen to comply with the rules we setup in vCM. Once that was done the systems would basically 'wget' whatever they needed to install (like MSSQL server) and we'd let it go through an unattended installation. The only remaining bit is SRM (which by the way isn't actually integrated with vCloud director and the "whitepaper" on the subject is a total kludge of a solution) but if you setup your inventory mappings correctly and don't need to make a lot of changes it's not going to be too difficult to configure protection for newly provisioned virtual machines. quote:The catalog based sandbox deployment they use in the VMware Hands On Labs site is pretty much exactly what I'd like to do for dev /QA teams. And I'd love fancier templating with more attached policies and guest customization steps like "Install IIS" or "Enable this server role". If that's going to be in vCenter going forward, great, I'll save a ton of money not buying the full cloud suite. You can do this in vcenter now. You can actually save guest customization specifications that execute scripts in the guest at provisioning time. vCloud (and I imagine vCAC) is going to give you some fancy networking on top of that which may or may not matter depending on what your devs are doing/how they work. fakedit: if this post seems disjoined as hell it's probably just because I'm exhausted after a very long day.
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Sep 5, 2013 03:57
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Is there anything out there similar to Citrix's Provisioning Services? That is one technology I miss working with at my new job. So very useful.
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Sep 5, 2013 04:01
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goobernoodles posted:I made a few posts regarding possibly implementing two EMC Data Domains for my company. Though they look nice, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that EMC is overkill/too pricey for us. Even the DD's 160's? Those hold a large amount of data and are reasonably priced. https://store.emc.com/Solve-For/BACKUP-PRODUCTS/Data-Domain-DD160/p/DDM-D160-BACK-001-1Q13-0040 they start at like 10k list, probably cheaper through a VAR or EMC direct. That would probably work fine as well, the Dedupe on Veeam is really good. How much data are you looking to back up again? Dilbert As FUCK fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 15:38
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Virtualization is about to hit me in an unusual way and I've not done much at all in the past so this will keep me busy. We are setting up a new site and the CIO for the company that owns our company has said we have to use the same helpdesk software as them. He has then said, buy a decent server, I'll give you the VM for it. Problem is he is going to give me a HyperV VM. The only VM host I can use is ESXi (Governance issue!) - apparently you can convert the vm, I need to do some research... So now we are thinking if we are buying this server for virtualization, what else can we stick on it? I don't really have many servers going onto site so I'm down to 2 options. Both of which mean virtualizing a domain controller - is that a sensible thing to do? I will still have a physical domain controller but I'm just not sure about it. I do sort of feel like I'm VM'ing for the sake of it but I guess I can save myself a bit of hardware costs and as the CIO has said we are doing it there isn't much of a way out of it. Whilst I'm here, our company generally use Backup Exec- am I going to have nightmares with this and ESXi? any info/advice/help/reading material/etc I will certainly be interested in...
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Sep 6, 2013 16:24
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angry armadillo posted:Virtualization is about to hit me in an unusual way and I've not done much at all in the past so this will keep me busy. You can run Hyper-V ontop of ESXi to run your Hyper-V VM  , or you can ask for a ova image for vmware.quote:So now we are thinking if we are buying this server for virtualization, what else can we stick on it? You can virtualize Domain Controllers, MS clusters, SQL, Exchange, Web Servers, File Shares, pretty much any mordern and most legacy OS's. All the Domain controllers we deploy are virtual, there are a few things you need to account like VM time sync's and such but those are minor. quote:I do sort of feel like I'm VM'ing for the sake of it but I guess I can save myself a bit of hardware costs and as the CIO has said we are doing it there isn't much of a way out of it. We run Backup exec on top virtual environment, no issues that we wouldn't have with backup exec in a physical(less actually). http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-VMw...mware+vsphere+5 You should really really get this book and read it. Feel free to ask away!
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Sep 6, 2013 16:37
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Misogynist posted:Have you looked at Logstash? It's not quite Splunk, but it's very free. Thanks for this suggestion, we've implemented it and its fantastic. Pantology posted:vButt Director. This makes my av text a bit sinister 
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Sep 6, 2013 16:51
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Dilbert As gently caress posted:You can run Hyper-V ontop of ESXi to run your Hyper-V VM Absolutely do not do this. Convert it and run it natively.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:51
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I don't know if we are allowed to run Hyper V at all, as it is a governance issue, not a technical one. Converting the image is the more difficult option so obviously that will be the route the governance guys make us take  We will be running -file/print server (as a DC) -SQL/Business application server -SQL/Bus App Disaster rec. server (as a DC) -a helpdesk server Exchange is offsite over WAN so I can forget that - I have to VM the helpdesk serve,r so I'm thinking of VM'ing the DR server as it never does anything (touch wood) apart from its DC duties. My other consideration is, because it's sort of 2 sites joined to 1, is put the DR server on the 'other site' for resilience, and virtualize my FP/DC server, but then I don't have a physical DC in the main server room which concerned me, but I get the feeling I'm just being a philistine and I should go for it! I'm reluctant to virtualize the main business application because my thoughts were over a potential bottle neck with disk access speeds constantly reading/writing to SQL on a VM. It's about 120 clients I think. I guess it depends how chunky the host is. I might speak to our software vendor and see if they have any other customers that have done it. I will certainly be doing my reading!! Thanks for your answer.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:54
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angry armadillo posted:
No. Works fine. Its just not quite as easy as say Veeam or phd virtual and you are still going to have your occasional "Backup Exec stops working for no reason" incidents.
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Sep 6, 2013 16:55
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Converting from Hyper-v to VMware isn't hard provided you can at least stand up a temporary instance of Hyper-V so you can get the guest machine running. I've done around 10 so far for our environment using the standalone converter. Is the what's the guest OS? Linux is a bit trickier, but windows machines are seriously no problem at all.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:13
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bull3964 posted:Converting from Hyper-v to VMware isn't hard provided you can at least stand up a temporary instance of Hyper-V so you can get the guest machine running. Linux shouldn't be trickier at all.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:24
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angry armadillo posted:We will be running Don't do this. Unless you can't afford another Windows license for some reason, you should just have a DC that's just a DC (plus DNS and DHCP or whatever). Maybe you did it so you didn't have to buy more hardware because they're all physical, but one of the benefits of virtualization is that there's no reason not to silo things off. Also, do not convert existing domain controllers. Just build new ones. If you are going to convert that DR server, demote it first. And if you have hardware left over, it doesn't hurt to run a physical DC. Especially if you're not real familiar with ESXi yet. If the host goes down, it'd be nice for your workstation to be able to do DNS lookups while you Google the PSOD message 
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Sep 6, 2013 18:45
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bull3964 posted:Converting from Hyper-v to VMware isn't hard provided you can at least stand up a temporary instance of Hyper-V so you can get the guest machine running. I was thinking along a similar line, glad to hear someone who has done it! We will be allowed to do that... It's all Windows so I think no problemo.
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Sep 6, 2013 18:46
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evol262 posted:Linux shouldn't be trickier at all. I have yet to have a successful conversion of a linux VM with the 5.1 converter, they apparently broke support for anything other than builds of their official distros. If you try to P2V or V2V a centOS machine, it will blow up on the "re-configuring VM" step due to unrecognized kernel version. The previous converter doesn't seem to be having those issues, however even with the older converter, it doesn't seem to like LVM and will kernel panic on boot. You either have to run a linux rescue disk after the fact and fix things up or have the converter change the disk to basic before the conversion.
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Sep 6, 2013 19:45
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1000101 posted:Absolutely do not do this.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:07
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You should run ESXi inside Virtualbox within Med-V ontop of Win7 running in VMware Fusion on your macbook.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:10
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Oh my god, why didn't anyone ever tell me about RVTools? http://www.robware.net/ This makes VCOPS look like hot garbage. I just pulled a list of all the NICs on my VMs to look for E1000s, I pulled a list of raw physical disks, and it's got a health check that found some really interesting issues.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:11
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El_Matarife posted:Oh my god, why didn't anyone ever tell me about RVTools? http://www.robware.net/ This makes VCOPS look like hot garbage. I just pulled a list of all the NICs on my VMs to look for E1000s, I pulled a list of raw physical disks, and it's got a health check that found some really interesting issues. I have been using it for a year or two now. It was mentioned at some point in this thread (that's how I found out about it). It probably should be in the OP.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:17
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I think I found that off of the Yellow Bricks blog a while back. Very good VMware blog to follow if you don't already.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:24
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Also, if you're not using vCheck then you should.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:32
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Yellow Bricks and vBrownBag really should both be in the OP too.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:38
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evil_bunnY posted:Did you really have to ruin it for everyone? Run x2 vHYPER-V VM's and create a cluster.  Thats how the big boys roll.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:43
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Anyone who is planning on taking the Stanly.edu VCP-DCV course, I urge you to get acquainted with the clock that drives their servers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSC17tHnZ8E I don't know how they provisioned their lab environment, but it feels like a single Pentium 90.
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Sep 6, 2013 20:45
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So I understand that time works differently on a VM because there's no physical hardware to keep things synchronized. If you have one server acting as a time source, does it need to be a physical machine or can it be virtual as well?
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Sep 6, 2013 21:16
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:If you have one server acting as a time source Dr. Arbitrary posted:does it need to be a physical machine or can it be virtual as well?
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Sep 6, 2013 21:21
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Misogynist posted:Don't do this. NTP all but says not to do this right in the spec. It's outright criminal that most implementations even let you do this. This is a dumb idea. Thank you very much, I'm pretty new at this stuff so I'll try to work my way through the spec. I'm working with a system that has a pretty tight time tolerance, major problems occur at 15 seconds time difference.
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Sep 6, 2013 21:37
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Thank you very much, I'm pretty new at this stuff so I'll try to work my way through the spec. Kerberos (and hence, AD) has problems at much less than 15 seconds. 15 seconds is pretty loose, honestly, and clocks don't drift that much. Just get NTP set up right.
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Sep 6, 2013 22:01
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evol262 posted:Kerberos (and hence, AD) has problems at much less than 15 seconds.
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Sep 6, 2013 22:25
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evol262 posted:Just get NTP set up right. What's the name of the protocol where a guy remotes to every server and sets the clock to be the same as his phone? Because I'm pretty sure that's what we're using.
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Sep 6, 2013 22:25
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I have a PowerCLI question. I hate manually having to name SCSI LUNs in the VIC like so:  I installed EMC Storage Integrator so I can grab lun information from powershell, I then save that information to an array (or CSV file) and want to use PowerCLI to go through the array, line up the WWN with the SCSI lun in VMware and then use the associated name from the array to just rename the VMware lun from the shell rather than having to use the VIC like the above picture. For when I do things like add 20 luns at once. So the line I'm having issues with is: $vmhost | get-scsilun | where {$_.CanonicalName -match $id} This will of course get me the scsilun, but I would like to pipe something like "| set-scsilun -name $newname" but obviously that isn't a valid function of that cmdlet. Is there even a way to rename these through the CLI?
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Sep 6, 2013 22:27
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FWIW Microsoft also states that it's more important for time to be consistent across an enterprise than it is for time to be accurate. If everyone is wrong, but the same wrong it'll still work. But yeah, we have a Linux NTP infrastructure with a hardware radio and then everything else points to it including AD. I just checked and our farthest skew is 0.0256 seconds right now.
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Sep 6, 2013 22:59
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That's a special kind of dummy.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:12
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three posted:Also, if you're not using vCheck then you should. Does anyone know if this is possible to use on non-vSphere ESXi hosts? I looked, but it doesn't seem possible.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:32
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