Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

ScottMcG posted:

I'm really curious how others have played the NPCs in DW1. Did NPCs align themselves with the players at all? Did an independent NPC party stir the pot in the dungeon back door with the goblins or phase spiders due to advancements of that particular front?

When I ran it, it was as a quick one-shot that started at the front door, so there wasn't a lot of noodling about in town to get to know the NPCs.

They haven't even met the NPCs yet! They were too busy stumbling into every single danger in the dungeon. That said, my plan is for them to find the thief wounded and holed up in a room somewhere, and a couple of the other NPCs locked or trapped further into the dungeon, with the thief having put them there. The thief will try to dissuade them from going towards the other NPCs and might bait them into traps if they do.

Harrow posted:

Where do you usually draw the line between Cast a Spell and Ritual for the Mage?

Look at the triggers.

Cast a Spell is "when you weave a spell to help solve a problem." No problem to solve? No Cast a Spell.

Ritual is "When you draw on a place of power to create a magical effect" and does not have the above restriction. If you also look at the text of the move, it becomes pretty obvious what the differences are: Cast a Spell is for immediate but temporary effects, whereas Ritual is for creating big permanent effects.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Sep 6, 2013

# ? Sep 6, 2013 08:44

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 15:13

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Glazius posted:

In terms of scale? Cast a Spell can allay a consequence, or create an opening for someone else to solve a problem. If you're trying to clear something up all in one go, it needs the time and consequences of a Ritual.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Look at the triggers.

Cast a Spell is "when you weave a spell to help solve a problem." No problem to solve? No Cast a Spell.

Ritual is "When you draw on a place of power to create a magical effect" and does not have the above restriction. If you also look at the text of the move, it becomes pretty obvious what the differences are: Cast a Spell is for immediate but temporary effects, whereas Ritual is for creating big permanent effects.

Aha, okay, now I understand. I also noticed that the trigger for Cast a Spell says "to help solve a problem," not to outright solve it, which speaks to Glazius's point as well.

Thanks. That makes a lot more sense now.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 12:51

The Supreme Court: Feb 25, 2010; Pirate World: Nearly done!

Pirate World scribbles are looking relatively concrete! Here's the general overview:

Hundreds of islands to explore, loot or flee from (mainly the latter) in a sea filled with strange things; there's creepy dwarves in great ironclads, rumours of plagueships turning whole islands quietly undead and an empire fuelling an industrial revolution with demonic rituals.

The playbooks are split into:
* background,
* what your character has specialised in recently
* what they're advancing into now
so they're definitely smaller.
Eg if you want to become a Tattooed Alchemist who starts dabbling in Cannibalism, that works!
If you'd rather be a total pirate, you grab the Swashbuckling, Pirate and (later on) Gunpowder playbooks. Each of the main classes will have two full expansions and can function exactly as a DW class in other games, but there'll be a myriad of -isms to customise to your heart's content.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 17:56

Handgun Phonics: Jan 7, 2012

The idea of split playbooks reminds me of Danger Patrol's character sheets. A similar theme to them.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 18:46

RSIxidor: Jun 19, 2012; Folks who can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers.

So I'm working on two playbooks. I don't know if they'll ever see the light of anyone actually using them, but I'm trying.

The Monstrosity or Titan (I'm still not quite sure what to call it yet). This is the aforementioned idea based on Attack on Titan, The Hulk, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and various fantasy creatures that can change from one form to another.

I'm trying to have the idea of losing control when things get too far. At the moment, I've got a currency I'm calling "charge," for now that builds up over time and when you have a certain amount of it, it triggers your change (one of the starting moves lets you trigger this at-will with less charge). Then, how much charge you spend when you transform tells you how long you'll be in the monstrous form.

At the moment, this is the move I have to gain charge. I think it's too broad and open to interpretation.

That Which Causes Ruin or Woe (taken from a definition of "bane.")
When you are angered, disturbed, disgusted, frustrated, or wronged, you gain 1 charge.

Is it too open as I'm thinking? Should I instead do it where you gain it when you roll a 6- or when you take damage? One of the backgrounds I was working out has another way to gain charge (a powerful being gave you your monstrous powers, you pick something that is opposed to that being, and gain a charge whenever you encounter it, maybe temporary as long as you're encountering it). Or should I scrap it and start over?

The other playbook I am currently calling Paragon. Basically, someone who's awesome and is an example to others of how awesome he is. It sounds bizarre, but I think I can make it work.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 19:56

The Supreme Court: Feb 25, 2010; Pirate World: Nearly done!

That sounds great. I'd definitely go with the opposed element, as that's fictionaly more interesting. The move you've suggested is pretty broad, I'd personally give the player a choice between the emotions and allow them to add another as a later move.

For the charge, do they use it for anything in the monstrous form? If so, it could be interesting to introduce a couple of levels of spending before the top level where the player loses control, to encourage risky play and make losing control something that would happen more often. e.g.:

When you encounter something opposed to your patron/ element, take d3 Rage.
When you have 2-5 Rage you can transform with 1 hold to spend
When you transform with 5-6 Rage, you gain 3 hold to spend on monstrous moves
When you go over 7 Rage you automatically transform.
When you go over 8 Rage, you lose control

Just some scribbles, but I really like the idea of an opposed element / emotion building up transformation uncontrollably. Sounds like it'll be a great class!

# ? Sep 6, 2013 20:10

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

I don't think random rage gain and a rage metre to track is a great idea.

What might work if you want to go in that direction is having a sanity (or whatever) pool that is equal to one of your stats (Wisdom, probably), and for you to lose sanity whenever you take any damage or X happens. When you reach 0, you transform and bad things happen.

But honest, what RSIxidor came up with is perfectly fine, although I'd probably narrow down the list of things that give 1 charge. I have a couple of thoughts on that:

1) emotions only exist in the fiction, which is both a good and a bad thing - good because it means players can go "I am angry" and gain 1 charge, if transforming has positive effects; bad because they can choose not to do so (up to the point where the table calls them on that poo poo) to not gain charge if transforming is just bad. Just make sure that both transformed and normal states have equal amounts of advantages, and this is gold.

2) charging when you take damage or roll a miss also works, although is much more grounded in the mechanics - this would work better if either the charge required to transform is low, or if it's middling to high and transforming has some downsides (e.g. you go berserk and attack everything).

3) having the player pick a thing that their monstrous side hates and gain charge whenever they encounter it is also a good idea.

Ultimately, I would probably build all the moves so that being transformed or not are equally advantageous although in different circumstances (with perhaps either state having small disadvantages), and have the player transform back when they've spent all their charge (which is of course spent to trigger or buff moves while transformed).

Then, come up with a core charge-gaining mechanic (let's call it Rage instead of charge, just to make it easier to talk about) and let the players pick an additional Rage-gaining mechanic as the playbook's racial/aspect move. "Whenever you're [wronged/mocked/scorned/looked down on by others - you, the author, should pick one of these and have it set in stone], gain 1-Rage" and "Pick a thing your transformed side hates; whenever you encounter that, gain 1-Rage" are both the right scope for racials, so you just need to come up with a third. I'd probably make the core "whenever you roll a miss" and then an advance that lets you gain Rage when you take damage (or vice-versa but I don't feel that would work as well - taking damage should be more frequent than failing a roll).

Oh, and The Monstrosity is totally the better playbook name.

End result would be that each Monstrosity starts play with two ways to generate Rage, rolling a miss and their racial/aspect/patron ability, and can expand that to "whenever you gain damage" if they want a lot of Rage. Probably a good idea to make this a Con primary or secondary playbook.

~Alternatively!~

Let the core Rage-generation move be "you gain Rage whenever you roll a miss. Choose one, you also gain Rage when you do that: [list of choices are the options discussed above]" (I'd probably still keep the damage one as an advance though), and make the racials ways of spending Rage or doing something without spending Rage or (if transforming has big downsides, which I recommend against) staving off Rage.

Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 6, 2013

# ? Sep 6, 2013 20:28

RSIxidor: Jun 19, 2012; Folks who can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers.

The Supreme Court posted:

That sounds great. I'd definitely go with the opposed element, as that's fictionaly more interesting. The move you've suggested is pretty broad, I'd personally give the player a choice between the emotions and allow them to add another as a later move.

For the charge, do they use it for anything in the monstrous form? If so, it could be interesting to introduce a couple of levels of spending before the top level where the player loses control, to encourage risky play and make losing control something that would happen more often. e.g.:

When you encounter something opposed to your patron/ element, take d3 Rage.
When you have 2-5 Rage you can transform with 1 hold to spend
When you transform with 5-6 Rage, you gain 3 hold to spend on monstrous moves
When you go over 7 Rage you automatically transform.
When you go over 8 Rage, you lose control

Just some scribbles, but I really like the idea of an opposed element / emotion building up transformation uncontrollably. Sounds like it'll be a great class!

At the moment, the patron being was only ONE background. The others being science and heritage, and I'm playing around with a "mysterious history" but don't feel right about that yet. Science lets you use a serum to transform faster, heritage gives you a random bonus (was originally under science, still feels wrong here, I might move that to an advanced move "unstable mutation" or somesuch).

I like the idea of letting the player pick from a list of what makes them pop. My current version of the transformation move looks a bit ungainly, and certainly different than yours. I was intending the monster form to be somewhat short-lived in some situations, and not so much in others.

Become a Monster
Whenever you have 3 or more charge, you take monstrous form and lose any number of charge tokens. You gain a d10 damage die, but cannot use your gear. You use your appendages to attack. Your (I don't know what I was going to put in this sentence)
Then, roll+Con. *On a 10+, choose one from the following list. *On a 7-9, choose two.
- You lose control of your mental faculties. You become stunned or confused while in monstrous form. If you are already stunned or confused, you take a different debility (GM�s choice).
- Your rage goes into overdrive. You lose an additional charge, but gain no endurance for it.
- Your (need more choices, yes?)
You gain a number of endurance marks equal to the charge spent. Whenever you take damage, you lose an endurance and take half damage from the attack. You return to normal form when you lose your last endurance.

And then I have two moves that customize how you transform (a more controlled version that can be taken at-will, a "struggle" version such as Dr. Jekyll might have, and a lose control version which is more like Hulk. I do like the idea of making it more likely to lose control. I want even the "controlled" Monstrosity to go into an uncontrolled rage some of the time.

I also think I should rework the move so that whatever it is that takes them over the edge also should have an impact on the transformation move. This will give the GM something to work off of if the PC loses control, and play into some other moves as well. Making notes.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 20:34

RSIxidor: Jun 19, 2012; Folks who can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

I don't think random rage gain and a rage metre to track is a great idea.

What might work if you want to go in that direction is having a sanity (or whatever) pool that is equal to one of your stats (Wisdom, probably), and for you to lose sanity whenever you take any damage or X happens. When you reach 0, you transform and bad things happen.

But honest, what RSIxidor came up with is perfectly fine, although I'd probably narrow down the list of things that give 1 charge. I have a couple of thoughts on that:

1) emotions only exist in the fiction, which is both a good and a bad thing - good because it means players can go "I am angry" and gain 1 charge, if transforming has positive effects; bad because they can choose not to do so (up to the point where the table calls them on that poo poo) to not gain charge if transforming is just bad. Just make sure that both transformed and normal states have equal amounts of advantages, and this is gold.

2) charging when you take damage or roll a miss also works, although is much more grounded in the mechanics - this would work better if either the charge required to transform is low, or if it's middling to high and transforming has some downsides (e.g. you go berserk and attack everything).

3) having the player pick a thing that their monstrous side hates and gain charge whenever they encounter it is also a good idea.

Ultimately, I would probably build all the moves so that being transformed or not are equally advantageous although in different circumstances (with perhaps either state having small disadvantages), and have the player transform back when they've spent all their charge (which is of course spent to trigger or buff moves while transformed).

Then, come up with a core charge-gaining mechanic (let's call it Rage instead of charge, just to make it easier to talk about) and let the players pick an additional Rage-gaining mechanic as the playbook's racial/aspect move. "Whenever you're [wronged/mocked/scorned/looked down on by others - you, the author, should pick one of these and have it set in stone], gain 1-Rage" and "Pick a thing your transformed side hates; whenever you encounter that, gain 1-Rage" are both the right scope for racials, so you just need to come up with a third. I'd probably make the core "whenever you roll a miss" and then an advance that lets you gain Rage when you take damage (or vice-versa but I don't feel that would work as well - taking damage should be more frequent than failing a roll).

Oh, and The Monstrosity is totally the better playbook name.

End result would be that each Monstrosity starts play with two ways to generate Rage, rolling a miss and their racial/aspect/patron ability, and can expand that to "whenever you gain damage" if they want a lot of Rage. Probably a good idea to make this a Con primary or secondary playbook.

~Alternatively!~

Let the core Rage-generation move be "you gain Rage whenever you roll a miss. Choose one, you also gain Rage when you do that: [list of choices are the options discussed above]" (I'd probably still keep the damage one as an advance though), and make the racials ways of spending Rage or doing something without spending Rage or (if transforming has big downsides, which I recommend against) staving off Rage.

More things to think over. I think I need to balance the two sides out more, because right now it's pretty much - Monster - fighting and smashing / Normal - everything else, but can fight a little bit but not very good. Not sure if that's enough of a balance at what they're good at it.

Pretty sure most of what I've wrote so far is getting recycled.

Thanks for the input, guys.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 20:37

RSIxidor: Jun 19, 2012; Folks who can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers.

Not knowing everything about Inverse World, I have to wonder if the sun is always shining...

And if so, doesn't that make solar power the ultimate resource? No electricity? Mirrors to generate heat to form steam.

RSIxidor fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 6, 2013

# ? Sep 6, 2013 22:18

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Well the thing to bear in mind about Inverse World is A). the sun is also a god and B). that god is basically hiding in penitence/shame/nobody quite knows, though it also desires to help people.

Oh, and also rain carries messages from the sun's cloud-children to the gods and back again.

So what happens when you mix angsty deific solar energy with water infused with the correspondence between divinities in your steam engine? I'm sure more than one mechanic has tried this and I'm sure the results have been memorable every time, though perhaps not always for the reasons they'd hoped.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 22:33

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

And that's not even the weirdest method of locomotion in Inverse World! I made drat sure of that.

# ? Sep 6, 2013 22:37

RSIxidor: Jun 19, 2012; Folks who can't handle a self-reference paradox are real suckers.

Kai Tave posted:

Well the thing to bear in mind about Inverse World is A). the sun is also a god and B). that god is basically hiding in penitence/shame/nobody quite knows, though it also desires to help people.

Oh, and also rain carries messages from the sun's cloud-children to the gods and back again.

So what happens when you mix angsty deific solar energy with water infused with the correspondence between divinities in your steam engine? I'm sure more than one mechanic has tried this and I'm sure the results have been memorable every time, though perhaps not always for the reasons they'd hoped.

That's actually quite beautiful.

Rulebook Heavily posted:

And that's not even the weirdest method of locomotion in Inverse World! I made drat sure of that.

The one-shot I ran a couple of weeks back, they asked me how the ships fly. The one the ended up on went with a "cloud engine," which literally creates clouds underneath the ship (which led to a dark-cloud engine being built later on, I'll post the whole report one of these days). Other ideas I threw out ranged from typical steam engines to giant flying creatures (I believe "sky whale" was mentioned, though someone did describe a more chariot like contraption).

# ? Sep 6, 2013 22:46

Huckabee Sting: Oct 2, 2006; A stolen King, a burning ego, and a gas station katana.

Here is the third attempt at my samurai. Third times the charm right? I allowed comments on the google doc if it's easier that way. If you feel that this is a lost cause just let me know and I'll stop posting about it.

# ? Sep 7, 2013 03:32

The Supreme Court: Feb 25, 2010; Pirate World: Nearly done!

RSIxidor posted:

nd then I have two moves that customize how you transform (a more controlled version that can be taken at-will, a "struggle" version such as Dr. Jekyll might have, and a lose control version which is more like Hulk. I do like the idea of making it more likely to lose control. I want even the "controlled" Monstrosity to go into an uncontrolled rage some of the time.

I also think I should rework the move so that whatever it is that takes them over the edge also should have an impact on the transformation move. This will give the GM something to work off of if the PC loses control, and play into some other moves as well. Making notes.

I like all your ideas bar the endurance tags, which I think are overcomplicating things. You've already got the Charge/Rage points; I'd stick with that and use them as currency for spending on moves while transformed and also as a timer for returning to normal form. The Slayer is probly a good class to check out for ideas: I'm reasonably sure that preparation points can be spent on mechanical boosts, rather than +dice rolls, which I like.

Just an idea, but if you were to make the Rage spending compulsory before returning to human form, it could make accidental transformation pretty interesting! Either that or the Jekyll-style control move could key off the remaining rage points, e.g. when you choose to take control of the beast, roll -Rage remaining. I'm not sure if -x to rolls is a thing in Dungeon World or if it'd even work, but it would definitely make restraining the monster fairly risky!

Either way, I totally agree with LemonCurdistan's (betterer) criticism too.

HuckabeeSting, I really like the Bushido move. it feels like a more focused Quest, and fictionally defining the characters behaviour in return for fictional boons sounds great. I'd love to see the Dishonour mechanic and swearing on their word a bit more defined. Not too sure about the Kata, I personally reckon you should focus on even more fictional bonuses (e.g. way of Earth: when you firmly plant your feet you cannot be moved) but I generally prefer that stuff anyways! Hopefully someone more qualied will give more useful criticism

I made a thing for PirateWorld, where goblins are misunderstood and metabolise gunpowder. Testing the idea of a hireling having a single custom move or two:

quote:

Gunpowder Goblin (hireling/pest)
When you catch a gunpowder goblin rifling through your stuff, you can order it about.

cost: shiny things, blackpowder
Starts with 0 loyalty and depreciates quickly. Goblins are single-minded, and won't follow any orders bar the two below:

Blast!
When you order a gunpowder goblin to fire its blunderbuss, roll +loyalty
on a 10+ it shoots what you told it to, doing d6-1 damage.
On a 7-9, it also shoots something unintended
on a 6- (suggestions for gm) it's eaten all of your gunpowder, taken the chance to run away or switched sides.

Pickpocket
When you order your goblin to steal something shiny, roll +loyalty
on a 10+ it returns and reluctantly hands over the item
On a 7-9, it also robs someone unintended, stashes the item somewhere secret or draws attention to you.

The Supreme Court fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Sep 7, 2013

# ? Sep 7, 2013 09:44

Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

RSIxidor posted:

The one-shot I ran a couple of weeks back, they asked me how the ships fly. The one the ended up on went with a "cloud engine," which literally creates clouds underneath the ship (which led to a dark-cloud engine being built later on, I'll post the whole report one of these days). Other ideas I threw out ranged from typical steam engines to giant flying creatures (I believe "sky whale" was mentioned, though someone did describe a more chariot like contraption).

That is masterful.

Also, in relation to your new class: I really like the idea of an Incredible Hulk/Jekyll and Hyde class, but there's one thing that I find a bit confusing in your proposed mechanics: you have the transformation being triggered by gaining a resource called charge which is then (if I'm not reading things wrong) converted 1 for 1 for a resource called endurance. Not having seen all your mechanics I can't help but wonder whether having two separate resources is necessary or whether you could just cut the middle man here, so when the character is in their monstrous form you'd just use however much charge they have 1 for 1 to evoke whatever effects you wanted endurance to achieve.

Also, the Become a Monster move takes a bit too long to actually get to the roll for transformation. I'd personally have it so that you have one move that states how you gain charge ending with what happens at 3 charge (you transform) and another move for the actual mechanics of transforming.

So, you'd have one move which states "When X happens, take 1 charge.When you're at 3 charge you transform." And then another move with the trigger "When you transform into a monster, roll+CON and stuff happens." I'm not sure whether it'd be entirely necessary, but as of now the Become a Monster move seems to have quite a few steps to go through.

Ratpick fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 7, 2013

# ? Sep 7, 2013 18:05

Syka: Mar 24, 2007; sum n00b or wut?

Huckabee Sting posted:

Here is the third attempt at my samurai. Third times the charm right? I allowed comments on the google doc if it's easier that way. If you feel that this is a lost cause just let me know and I'll stop posting about it.

I like this a lot better than before. No particular criticisms, I'll leave that to people smarter than I.

# ? Sep 7, 2013 18:44

djw175: Apr 23, 2012; by zen death robot

Huckabee Sting posted:

Here is the third attempt at my samurai. Third times the charm right? I allowed comments on the google doc if it's easier that way. If you feel that this is a lost cause just let me know and I'll stop posting about it.

It still has the problem where the Death Move is a trigger that isn't just "When you die". When the Samurai dies but not to seppuku nothing much happens, while with any other class it's a huge event.

# ? Sep 7, 2013 22:11

Bigup DJ: Nov 8, 2012

Is it alright to include a Death Move with a Compendium Class so long as that Death Move overwrites your Playbook's Death Move?

# ? Sep 8, 2013 04:46

Elmo Oxygen: Jun 11, 2007; Kazuo Misaki Superfan #3

Don't make me lift my knee, young man.

I don't see why not?

# ? Sep 8, 2013 06:27

Elderbean: Jun 10, 2013

Would I be silly for implementing items that have a percentage to do extra damage/an extra effect? My players all come from D&D and they're so used to items having some kind of mechanical attachment so I thought it might be a nice in-between for them.

# ? Sep 8, 2013 08:52

Whybird: Aug 2, 2009; Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar; Nap Ghost

Elderbean posted:

Would I be silly for implementing items that have a percentage to do extra damage/an extra effect? My players all come from D&D and they're so used to items having some kind of mechanical attachment so I thought it might be a nice in-between for them.

Nah, I would just make the extra effect as an always-on thing that gives fictional positioning. A D&D weapon has a 25% chance to destroy undead. A DW weapon glows with an inner light that cleaves through undead flesh like butter.

The latter wouldn't give you a numerical bonus, but it would mean that trying things like hacking a ghoul's arm off because he's grabbed your buddy are on the table for you now, whereas before it might have been some sort of Defy Danger to make sure your sword doesn't get jammed into him.

# ? Sep 8, 2013 09:07

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Bigup DJ posted:

Is it alright to include a Death Move with a Compendium Class so long as that Death Move overwrites your Playbook's Death Move?

I'd make sure to give it "for free" when the player takes the CC entry move, because it's replacing an existing move rather than giving them a new one.

Elderbean posted:

Would I be silly for implementing items that have a percentage to do extra damage/an extra effect? My players all come from D&D and they're so used to items having some kind of mechanical attachment so I thought it might be a nice in-between for them.

It's extra dice rolls and it's a break from the fiction. Don't do it.

Depending on what you want to do exactly, you can just make the item have additional effects on a 10+ or 12+ with specific moves (e.g. when you roll a 12+ to H&S against undead with this mace, they crumble to dust).

As an aside, magic items absolutely have "mechanical attachment" so I'm not sure what the complaint is.

# ? Sep 8, 2013 10:53

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

I know this is from a few days ago, but

Elmo Oxygen posted:

I wish I had more input to give, I only just recently started using non-4e dungeons.

A DW Tomb of Horrors could be hilarious.

The S-Series and A-Series compilations WotC put out would work really well for Dungeon World. The S-series stuff is more self-contained but Against the Slavers just needs a few Fronts.

And one of these days I'm going to actually write the Dungeon World "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" adventure. (who am I kidding no I'm not)

# ? Sep 8, 2013 16:04

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

I've been thinking about the role of resurrection in fantasy RPGs, and I wanted to find a way to make it interesting in my campaign. Normally I house rule a "no resurrection" thing into the setting, but cutting out entire class moves and spells seems inappropriate for Dungeon World. Some resurrection moves have built-in conditions that I like (like the Witch's "Stitched Together"), but I wanted to impose some kind of change on a resurrected PC even if they're brought back by, say, a Mage's Ritual or some kind of divine intervention. My goal isn't to make resurrection harder--that's built in to the conditions the GM can impose on Ritual or Resurrection--but to make it weirder.

So I'm drafting a special move and I'm interested in other people's ideas/critiques/etc.:

Back Among the Living
When you are brought back from the dead by magic or divine intervention, some strange things happen to you. While any specific memories of the afterlife were left behind, you have some vague impressions of the feeling of being dead. Describe them. In addition, choose one of the following:

You left a body part behind--it just simply isn't there when you wake up. Maybe it's a finger, or an ear, or even an eye. You're sometimes distracted by phantom pains, sounds, or visions; the GM may call on these when you roll a miss or partial success.
You see things differently now, and sometimes see mundane objects in a disturbing, macabre way that others can't see. On a miss or a partial success, these visions may trip you up.
On your way back to the land of the living, you saw a disturbing secret about one of the people with whom you have a bond, but the details are lost to you. Immediately remove that bond, without resolving it, and replace it with a new one: I have seen a disturbing secret about ___________, but I can't remember what it was.

I'd love some suggestions for things to add, change, or remove. My goal is to avoid explicit mechanical changes to the character while adding some new fictional situations, like strange phantom visions that the GM can use when putting you in a spot, revealing an unwelcome truth, or doing some other GM move. The bond one is tricky, but I tried to word it in such a way that it isn't giving you a mechanical benefit or penalty: the bond isn't resolved (so no XP gain), and you don't lose a bond you had, because you're really just changing it to another wording.

# ? Sep 8, 2013 16:22

Elderbean: Jun 10, 2013

I�m working on my first front, how does this look so far?

Setup:

The Valhos Monastery has served as a place of refuge, study, healing, and worship for centuries. Nestled within the crag of a colossal mountain, it has remained relatively untouched by the rise and fall of numerous kingdoms. Despite its isolated location, the monastery attracts hundreds of pilgrims every year during the annual lighting of the jade spire. Recently, however, something has befouled the place. The pilgrims who journeyed there have not returned, and the jade spire remains unlit. The monastery shows no signs of inhabitation or life save for the incessant baying of something beyond the crag.
What Happened Previously (DM Info)
Several weeks ago a group of cultists entered the grounds posing as pilgrims. They quickly infiltrated the crypts below and performed a ritual binding their power to the jade spire and the collective will of the pilgrims above. Once the ceremony was set to begin, they used their collective aura to summon forth several lesser demons. Shortly thereafter, they overtook the monastery and began their campaign of destruction. Once they have appeased their masters, they will summon forth and bind the higher demon Orchatha.

Questions for the Players

1. Why are you coming to the monastery?
2. Who or what is Valhos?
3. Is this religion seen favorably by most?
4. What person of note has been here recently?
5. What ceremonies are performed here?

Front: The Children of Orchatha (Cultists)

Grim Portents

-A demon bellows.
-The spire is alight with something foul.
-Lesser Demons spew forth from the ground.
-Orchatha awakens.

Impending Doom: Enslavement

# ? Sep 8, 2013 21:34

Huckabee Sting: Oct 2, 2006; A stolen King, a burning ego, and a gas station katana.

Harrow posted:

I'd love some suggestions for things to add, change, or remove. My goal is to avoid explicit mechanical changes to the character while adding some new fictional situations, like strange phantom visions that the GM can use when putting you in a spot, revealing an unwelcome truth, or doing some other GM move. The bond one is tricky, but I tried to word it in such a way that it isn't giving you a mechanical benefit or penalty: the bond isn't resolved (so no XP gain), and you don't lose a bond you had, because you're really just changing it to another wording.

I don't know if forcing someone to change their bonds is a good way to go about it.

Your spirit is still being pulled towards the otherside. Sometimes friend and foe alike will forget that you even exist.

This adds some flavor to anything they roll. 6 on a parley, the NPC completely stops noticing they are there. 10+ on defy danger and that bandit's memory becomes foggy as they stare through your PC with a confused gaze.

# ? Sep 8, 2013 22:50

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Huckabee Sting posted:

I don't know if forcing someone to change their bonds is a good way to go about it.

Your spirit is still being pulled towards the otherside. Sometimes friend and foe alike will forget that you even exist.

This adds some flavor to anything they roll. 6 on a parley, the NPC completely stops noticing they are there. 10+ on defy danger and that bandit's memory becomes foggy as they stare through your PC with a confused gaze.

My intention isn't to really "force" anyone to change their bonds--it's just one of the choices. It's up to the player which one they pick. If the player wants to change a bond, they're free to pick that; otherwise, they can pick something else. Of course, it's entirely possible it just doesn't really fit Dungeon World either way.

Also, I like the "the player is less real" feeling your suggestion has to it, like part of their identity got left behind.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Sep 8, 2013

# ? Sep 8, 2013 23:25

Kaja Rainbow: Oct 17, 2012; ~Adorable horror~

Harrow posted:

Back Among the Living

I really like this idea! I'm a fan of "death doesn't leave you unmarked" type things. (It was one of my favorite rules from Seven Leagues, I think it was but I could be wrong--you simply wrote a new character sheet that was the old character in a transformed form.)

Harrow posted:

[*]You see things differently now, and sometimes see mundane objects in a disturbing, macabre way that others can't see. On a miss or a partial success, these visions may trip you up.

I actually think this could stand to be broadened a little more. For example, seeing ghosts or ominious shadowy figures, that kind of thing? Lots of potential for a "I came back from the death and now I see things differently" that isn't covered by the relatively narrow description here.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 00:04

MadRhetoric: Feb 18, 2011; I POSSESS QUESTIONABLE TASTE IN TOUHOU GAMES

On the Back from the Dead move, giving another player a Bond on you for helping to bring the character back, or even a Monsterhearts style string could be cool.

A straight up "Death has grown covetous and/or vengeful; it will follow you wherever you go. Describe how Death makes itself known" sort of thing could work.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 01:08

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Kaja Rainbow posted:

I actually think this could stand to be broadened a little more. For example, seeing ghosts or ominious shadowy figures, that kind of thing? Lots of potential for a "I came back from the death and now I see things differently" that isn't covered by the relatively narrow description here.

Yeah, I agree. I think that was what I wanted it to be, but you're right, I worded it really narrowly. Sometimes out of the corner of your eye the world is more ghostly, more macabre; sometimes you see shadowy figures flit by, or you feel very strongly that something you can never see is keeping track of your every move.

MadRhetoric posted:

On the Back from the Dead move, giving another player a Bond on you for helping to bring the character back, or even a Monsterhearts style string could be cool.

A straight up "Death has grown covetous and/or vengeful; it will follow you wherever you go. Describe how Death makes itself known" sort of thing could work.

I think I'll replace the bond move with your suggestion, since I like that better. Sort of an, "I owe _________ my life, quite literally" situation.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 01:36

Elderbean: Jun 10, 2013

I�ve never made a monster from scratch, how is this so far?

Tallow Fiend: a skeletal form with iridescent and waxy flesh that runs in thick rivulets. Planted atop its skull are numerous rows of candles that cast dancing shadows as the fiend writhes about. The gaping holes in the creatures face spew thick ribbons of smoke and ash.

When you are caught in the Tallow Flames, roll +DEX. On a 10+ you leap to safety, on a 7-9 choose one.
-An item melts away
-You are alight with fire.
-You are marked by the fiend.

When the Tallow Fiend has you in its waxy grasp, roll +STR. One a 10+ you pull yourself free, on a 7-9 choose one.
-Your limbs are bound by wax
-your mouth is bound by wax
-Your vision is obscured by wax.

Instincts: To burn, to mark for another, to coalesce.

HP: 15
Swipe: 1D6+1
Burn: 1D8+1

# ? Sep 9, 2013 11:40

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Seems like you could just merge the two moves, since I'm not really seeing how you could get caught in the flames without the skeleton grabbing you, and the second move options are all sort of samey. I'd just make one move with "an item melts away," "you are on fire," "your limbs are bound by wax" and "you are marked by the fiend."

Other than that, its HP is high and it could stand to have some sort of armour (both from being magical, undead and covered in wax) - I'd probably drop it to 10-12 HP, 2 armour.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 11:49

Elderbean: Jun 10, 2013

I imagined the fire as being a ranged attack, like it spews from the creatures mouth. I think I'll just condense everything like you said though in addition to giving it armor.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 12:29

Teonis: Jul 5, 2007

I find it interesting that you used choice moves on a monster, but I think it makes the monster seem 'soft.' Every time the player presents an opportunity, you would normally make a hard move with the monster, but in this case both his moves are soft moves that have hard choices on 7-9. To me, both those moves just sound like Defy Danger with pre-written results.

I could just see a bout with him going like this: (pardon the lack of flavor)
GM: The tallow fiend appears from the doorway and lumbers towards the cleric to grab him. What do you do?
Cleric: I jump back from the door, looking for cover behind the Fighter's shield, then I shoot searing light at is while invoking the name of Pelor.
GM: If you would please Defy Danger with Dex.
Cleric: Pelor fails me... I got a 5.
This is where the Hard move should be made, but lets use the Tallow Fiend's move.
GM: The fiend's speed surprises you and before you can escape, its waxy arms wrap around you. Roll + Str, please.
Cleric: Much better, 10.
GM: As he's grabbing you, your light returns and buffets his arms away from you, keeping you from his grasp. What do you do?
Cleric: I'm still too low on HP, I'm going to run behind the fighter again.
GM: You're still up close with the fiend, you have to Defy Danger again.

You can see that this made a lot of repetition in the fight. Now really, as a GM once the cleric was grabbed, I would have turned to my fighter and presented him with the Cleric's plight and asked what he would do, but what I'm demonstrating is that he had to go through 3 soft moves to get to a hard move when there were already opportunities afoot.

Do any other DW GMs disagree?

# ? Sep 9, 2013 13:17

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Teonis posted:

To me, both those moves just sound like Defy Danger with pre-written results.

You're supposed to write these kinds of DD-with-prewritten-results moves. Giving the monster a custom move is a good way to make it memorable and harder to fight.

That said: the real issue is that it might slow down play if the players have to DD every time the monster makes an attack. If this is not an issue for you, that's 100% fine - just keep in mind that you're essentially asking for an extra roll every time the player gets attacked with the wax/candles.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 13:58

Teonis: Jul 5, 2007

Oh yes, there should be custom moves and setting moves that are reskinned DDs, but they should represent a danger that is not a monster or is too minor a threat to have a full stat block. DD doesn't belong on a monster because it will already be doing this to the players.

These moves would be more fitting for a trap or a monster without HP. An example of the latter would be something that is destroyed the moment you overcome it; a clay monster that shatters when you break out of its arms. Or, when the iron colossus grabs you roll +dex... that iron colossus doesn't need HP because he can only be stopped via ritual.

Teonis fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Sep 9, 2013

# ? Sep 9, 2013 14:33

gnome7: Oct 21, 2010; Who's this Little
Spaghetti?? ??

The easy fix would be to keep the Defy Danger move, but then also give the Tallow Fiend the following moves:

- Bind them with wax
- Set them on fire
- Melt or burn an item away

The DD move would trigger when you want to make a soft move on the players, and the list above would be your hard moves to hit them with when they're reeling.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 14:37

Oo Koo: Nov 19, 2012

I used the open office template that was posted earlier to make a complete playbook for the augur. I also did some tweaking to some of the wording while I was at it, though the only major revisions are replacing the vanilla multiclass moves with slightly more flavorful ones. The PDF is here.

# ? Sep 9, 2013 14:56

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 15:13

Teonis: Jul 5, 2007

gnome7 posted:

The easy fix would be to keep the Defy Danger move, but then also give the Tallow Fiend the following moves:

- Bind them with wax
- Set them on fire
- Melt or burn an item away

The DD move would trigger when you want to make a soft move on the players, and the list above would be your hard moves to hit them with when they're reeling.

These are the moves I would have gone with. When I read the DD style moves, what I saw, and maybe this was intentional, was a monster with a weak flame that is slow to burn and a frail grip. With the hard moves he becomes a fire hurling menace who will bury you in wax. But even if the first was what you are trying to do, the game is going to fill with extra die rolls and rules.

When a creature is grabbed by the tallow fiend it should defy danger to escape; on a 7-9 what complications might happen? Is binding you with wax really the ONLY thing that might happen while trying to escape? Maybe they do get covered while pulling free, ask them what part of their body is covered in wax. Maybe they get free but their shield is glued to its body, or they fumble into an ally knocking them both over. What is happening in the environment? If the tallow fiend has been shooting fire around, maybe the building is now burning, do you have enough time to help the wizard back to his feet before the roof caves in?

The moves themselves are things that should already be happening and the choices of the moves are too limiting for what this monster is capable of doing.

If the tallow fiend is a weak-flamed slow monster, play that in the fiction, not the rules. This is the spirit of Dungeon World.

Teonis fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Sep 9, 2013

# ? Sep 9, 2013 15:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

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