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Baronjutter posted:Was just in Seattle on the weekend, holy poo poo that city loves highways. It's like vancouver if vancouver was utterly destroyed by criss-crossing highways in every direction. What the gently caress were they thinking destroying their downtown waterfront with that elevated highway? Glad they're finally getting rid of it. The downtown core was pretty walkable but the area north of downtown by the space needle was an absolute maze to walk. So many sort-of-highways right in the middle of what should be a walkable urban area with no way to cross them for hundreds of meters in each direction. We were trying to get from A to B which should have been like a 500m walk by the crow flies but due to lovely car sewers it was a 1km+ walk on some super unpleasant stroads. Also no bike lanes anywhere so everyone was riding on the sidewalk and the only people actually on the roads were Lycra-clad cycle-warriors getting honked at and tail-gated by cars. You were in the wrong part of town. I stayed across the street from PAX at the Sheraton and walked everywhere. Cap Hill (across the 5), Pike Place Market, South Lake Union, you name it. It's a walker's paradise in that area and when it came time to leave I just walked to the shopping mall's underground terminal for the light rail / transit tunnel underground.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:20
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Yeah, I was just in Seattle for work, and it was great. Getting from the actual waterfront back up to like 4th Ave turned out to be surprisingly challenging for an out of towner, simply because holy poo poo that hill is huge an I'm not surprised only a few of the cross street run up it. Downtown was a blast to walk in though. Also, looking at it on Google maps, I gather the road Baconjutter is complaining about is the Alaskan Way Viaduct? I didn't even notice it was there.  grover posted:There's speeding, and then there's speeding. I've oft heard said that speed limits are intentionally set about 10mph slower than the intended speed because it's cheaper to enforce that way. The drawback is that now, in most states, when one car is going 71 in a 55, he's given a ticket for 16mph over, even when all the traffic around him is doing 70. The way our justice system works, it just seems patently unfair. And it also creates a large speed disparity. Set the speed limits properly (including reasonably minimum speed limits. Why is 41mph legal on a highway?) and only nail those who are actually driving an unsafe speed. And then ticket them appropriately. That's exactly why putting speed governors or cameras everywhere is great though; it changes things from being completely arbitrary to uniformly enforced. It'll go a long way to reduce the speed differentials too, by lopping off the top half of the curve, although there's always some idiot doing 15 under for some reason.
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Sep 7, 2013 00:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Baronjutter posted:Was just in Seattle on the weekend, holy poo poo that city loves highways. It's like vancouver if vancouver was utterly destroyed by criss-crossing highways in every direction. What the gently caress were they thinking destroying their downtown waterfront with that elevated highway? Welcome to every city in North America. It's not Seattle that's the odd one out in this respect, it's Vancouver. It blows my mind how little respect urban planners of the 50's had for waterfront property.
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Sep 7, 2013 01:15
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What goes into the design of a road to keep massive multi-car pileups away?
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Sep 7, 2013 02:34
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Baronjutter posted:Was just in Seattle on the weekend, holy poo poo that city loves highways. It's like vancouver if vancouver was utterly destroyed by criss-crossing highways in every direction. What the gently caress were they thinking destroying their downtown waterfront with that elevated highway? Glad they're finally getting rid of it. The downtown core was pretty walkable but the area north of downtown by the space needle was an absolute maze to walk. So many sort-of-highways right in the middle of what should be a walkable urban area with no way to cross them for hundreds of meters in each direction. We were trying to get from A to B which should have been like a 500m walk by the crow flies but due to lovely car sewers it was a 1km+ walk on some super unpleasant stroads. Also no bike lanes anywhere so everyone was riding on the sidewalk and the only people actually on the roads were Lycra-clad cycle-warriors getting honked at and tail-gated by cars. The downtown waterfront used to be a huge ugly port facility, hence noone cared that it was fenced off by the freeway. Same deal with the west side highway in New York City or the current route of I 95 through Baltimore (although the port facilities are still there in Baltimore). Most cities with waterfront parks have them on the vacated remains of port industries, and thus tend to have put their freeways and highways alongside back in the day. Echo 3 posted:Welcome to every city in North America. It's not Seattle that's the odd one out in this respect, it's Vancouver. It blows my mind how little respect urban planners of the 50's had for waterfront property. There was no reason to respect the ugly rear end working docks and wharfs.
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Sep 7, 2013 02:41
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mamosodiumku posted:What goes into the design of a road to keep massive multi-car pileups away? Unless you can solve fog, probably nothing.
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Sep 7, 2013 05:28
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Fog lights maybe? My car has them, but I live in a place where fog never happens, so I have no idea what they're really for or how well they work. Really that sounds like a collective case of driver error. They were out driving their visibility, and then couldn't stop in time. Classic night time driving mistake.
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Sep 7, 2013 07:07
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Terminal Entropy posted:Also, this ends up being the result if everyone where to go exactly the speed limit: If everyone gets to their destination when they want to what exactly is the problem with this? If google gets their way this is how things will be
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Sep 7, 2013 11:44
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My experience with average speed controls is that they are the worst part of my trip when i encounter then even if i am not speeding. Everyone sets their car to cruise control "their" 5kph under the speed limit. But because everyone's speedo is calibrated different this also seems to turn people into tailgating assholes. So you end up doing 125kph with a car 5 meters behind of you and 5 meters in front of you while people also feel they can now overtake on the right because gently caress you i am doing the speed limit. Or during more quiet times you end up doing 133kph and are one of the lucky 2000 people per day (per controlled section) who gets to pay their €47 extra taxes. Especially on the A2 which has a design speed of 160kph but a speed limit of 100kph. Probably not so bad with self driving cars but with regular people it is horrible and has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue.
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Sep 7, 2013 12:18
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thehustler posted:If everyone gets to their destination when they want to what exactly is the problem with this? 25 mph is way safer than 55. Why not set a mandatory limit at 25?
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Sep 7, 2013 12:49
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I just wanted to thank this thread for teaching me cool stuff. I was at a store, and as I left, I said, "Waitaminit. This is a SPUI. Holy crap, this SPUI goes into a turbine interchange!" Yup. Check that road out. From west to east: Parclo, cloverleaf, SPUI, turbine, trumpet. Couple of diamonds thrown in for good measure.
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Sep 7, 2013 14:08
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PittTheElder posted:That's exactly why putting speed governors or cameras everywhere is great though; it changes things from being completely arbitrary to uniformly enforced. It'll go a long way to reduce the speed differentials too, by lopping off the top half of the curve, although there's always some idiot doing 15 under for some reason. You could always ticket people going under the minimum, too. That's every bit as illegal. My main issue is that, if enforcement is stepped up, fines should be reduced. Giving someone a $70 ticket every time they go 1mph over the limit isn't going to be well received. One dollar per (mph over the limit)^2 per mile traveled is much more equitable. mamosodiumku posted:What goes into the design of a road to keep massive multi-car pileups away? You'd have to find a way to keep people a safe distance from one another. When you've got someone approaching the back-of-queue at high speed, there's nothing you can do to avoid the impending collision, but at least you can reduce the number of cars involved. thehustler posted:If everyone gets to their destination when they want to what exactly is the problem with this? So long as they're all going the design speed, and not the arbitrarily low posted speed, it's not a problem. Just remember that higher speeds reduce delay cost and increase capacity, though there are diminishing returns. babyeatingpsychopath posted:I just wanted to thank this thread for teaching me cool stuff. I was at a store, and as I left, I said, "Waitaminit. This is a SPUI. Holy crap, this SPUI goes into a turbine interchange!" I know we're supposed to keep adjacent interchanges essentially identical, but there's something to be said for variety. And I'm glad you enjoyed the thread!
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Sep 7, 2013 17:06
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Volmarias posted:25 mph is way safer than 55. Why not set a mandatory limit at 25? This is stupid, I don't mean setting a low limit, I would like it if we set decent limits for every road and people stuck to them. How do we do THAT? People get all childish and "hurr nobody tells me what to do!" These people are dicks. (Answered above I see. My Google comment was regarding automatic cars)
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Sep 7, 2013 19:46
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thehustler posted:This is stupid, I don't mean setting a low limit, I would like it if we set decent limits for every road and people stuck to them. How do we do THAT? People get all childish and "hurr nobody tells me what to do!" I too would like it if we set decent limits for every road and people stuck to them, but we're already stuck with arbitrarily low limits. That was the entire point of that photograph / event; the "leaders" were going the speed limit, and traffic was, as is visible, completely backed up behind them because the speed limit was set way too low for political reasons, and most people cruised at a higher speed.
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Sep 7, 2013 20:28
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Bottom line is that there will always be people that want to drive their own car at unsafe speeds, Google tech be damned. If expressways were to become a conveyor belt of cars, dangerous drivers would shift to local roads... which is a huge safety problem.
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Sep 8, 2013 02:42
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Varance posted:Bottom line is that there will always be people that want to drive their own car at unsafe speeds, Google tech be damned. Only for a few weeks until they're all dead or severely crippled.
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Sep 8, 2013 04:00
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Install Windows posted:Only for a few weeks until they're all dead or severely crippled. 
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Sep 8, 2013 04:22
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Varance posted:You've obviously never driven in Florida, where 70 in a 55 is the normal flow of traffic. I don't see what's wrong with that? This is Florida too, you're probably not routing roads over twisty ancient colonial roads and you definitely aren't dealing with mountains and such. Just today I was driving home doing 85 in a 60 keeping up with traffic up in the Appalachians.
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Sep 8, 2013 05:23
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How effective are those information signs on the freeways? If a message of "Dense fog, please slow down" is put up, will cars pay attention to that, or would they just go at the same speed and crash?
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Sep 8, 2013 08:11
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mamosodiumku posted:How effective are those information signs on the freeways? If a message of "Dense fog, please slow down" is put up, will cars pay attention to that, or would they just go at the same speed and crash? They probably couldn't see the sign. My only experience is with Tule Fog in California, and there is basically no way to stop it. Tule drops instantly. You can go from being able to see well in advance of you to not being able to see the end of your hood in seconds. You may not be able to see the lines in the road. You can't stop or even slow down too much because it will just lead to the person running into you. One is specifically advised not to pull over and stop because a car behcind you might follow your lights and hit you.
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Sep 8, 2013 08:45
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 We get told the exact opposite for dust storms: slow down and pull off the road. So which is it?
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Sep 8, 2013 08:59
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Terminal Entropy posted:
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Sep 8, 2013 09:13
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Install Windows posted:I don't see what's wrong with that? This is Florida too, you're probably not routing roads over twisty ancient colonial roads and you definitely aren't dealing with mountains and such. And then there's this curve on I-275 near downtown Tampa, which leads into this interchange with I-4. Blind curve into traffic merging from the left AND right, trying to get into the correct lanes for the interstate split. 70 in a 50. And then an S-curve with major elevation changes and the right lane ending.  The worst is the I-275 N/B onramp from Hillsborough Ave/US92. You have *no* view of the interstate before the merge, and a short merge lane. There's multiple accidents here every day... and since the interchange is surrounded by historical buildings, there's not much to be done about it. Keep in mind that we're in the process of tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it from scratch, due to how terrible the original road is. I-75 is 1980s stuff... nice, flat and and signed 70 MPH. That's 90MPH territory, and FHP's candyland for writing tickets. Varance fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 14:10
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nm posted:If you can't see past your hood, the answer is "pray." Personally, I'd trust science over God for this, but YMMV I guess.
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Sep 8, 2013 16:10
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Varance posted:The worst is the I-275 N/B onramp from Hillsborough Ave/US92. You have *no* view of the interstate before the merge, and a short merge lane. There's multiple accidents here every day... and since the interchange is surrounded by historical buildings, there's not much to be done about it. e: here's a historical (90s) image from Terraserver, complete with horrible watermarks. Northbound traffic trying to heat West had it the worst. 
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Sep 8, 2013 16:20
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grover posted:As in "pray your adaptive cruise control works and will hit the brakes for you, and the guy behind you has adaptive cruise control, too"? How many people have a feature like that? I know I don't.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:32
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John Dough posted:How many people have a feature like that? I know I don't. Enough people don't that a legal specialty in dust storm accidents exists.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:37
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John Dough posted:How many people have a feature like that? I know I don't.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:07
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Boy guys, I think I spotted a little problem out in the field: Out there at Exit 88 on I-95, we just finished a project to lengthen the accel and decel lanes, since they were woefully inadequate. The contractor did their work, new bridge built, pavement widened... and then went and re-striped the previous super-short lane lines. Now there's a gigantic shoulder that stretches a few hundred feet past the (still very problematic) accel lane. Yes, the plans were very clear on the new striping. Yes, they should have known; this was the point of the entire project. See what I mean about people being stupid?
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Sep 9, 2013 03:07
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Cichlidae posted:You could always ticket people going under the minimum, too. That's every bit as illegal. My main issue is that, if enforcement is stepped up, fines should be reduced. Giving someone a $70 ticket every time they go 1mph over the limit isn't going to be well received. One dollar per (mph over the limit)^2 per mile traveled is much more equitable. Cichlidae posted:So long as they're all going the design speed, and not the arbitrarily low posted speed, it's not a problem. Just remember that higher speeds reduce delay cost and increase capacity, though there are diminishing returns. Anyway, as an aside, somebody in DnD has started a thread on urban sprawl in the USA, which may be of interest to the denizens of this thread.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:28
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Lead out in cuffs posted:I'm curious as to why you think a $70 fine is high? I'm pretty sure nearly all of that would be swallowed up by administrative costs. (1 dollar/mph over)^2 sounds OK, though -- $100 for 10 over, $400 for 20 over, and probably not bothering to prosecute for much less. That all said, I'm pretty sure nobody gets fined for going 1mph (or even 5mph) over the limit, as it can be (and is) argued in court that it's within the measurement error of the apparatus. The problem is not the fines, honestly. Anything below $500 or so is dwarfed by the insurance rate increases, which is the real pain. Make anything under 15 or 20 over or something on a road with a limit of 55mph or higher (and something proportional for other limits) non-reportable and you'd see fewer complaints (Minnesota already does this to some degree. 65 in a 55 is non-reportable). that said, if they set limits at 85 percentile speeds, you'd also have fewer problems.
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Sep 9, 2013 06:26
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People get fined over here for 3kph over the limit, but that's after generous margins for the equipment. At that point you were probably going at least 6kph over the limit, and your speedometer would show you going 10 over, most likely. e: doesn't stop people complaining though
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Sep 9, 2013 06:52
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thehustler posted:If everyone gets to their destination when they want to what exactly is the problem with this? I think I know where this frame is from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoETMCosULQ The full video. A bunch of Georgia Tech undergrads show how each lane going 55MPH (the speed limit) on I-285 (a highway that encircles Atlanta, GA) produces a bit of road rage.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:25
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I checked for this as best I could but being that it's a huge topic apologies if it's been covered: What are your thoughts on the Nanpu Bridge Interchange in Shanghai? http://www.urbansplatter.com/one-of-the-worlds-biggest-highway-interchanges-nanpu-bridge/ I was in Shanghai a month ago and it blew my mind. It's so darn beautiful to look at but given the huge space it takes up I'm not sure how practical it would be without a Communist government that can just snatch up the land necessary. 
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Sep 10, 2013 20:09
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Hey! I remember when I was a kid and my mother took me there the day it opened! I've walked up and down that thing. I don't remember it being nearly so large, which is weird because when you're a kid, everything seems big.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:12
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China sure loves it's highways.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:13
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Honestly, all told, it doesn't look that big, in comparison to some of the giant stuff we build here in the US.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:33
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Baronjutter posted:China sure loves it's highways. China also has massive mass transit. China is building everything.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:50
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Cichlidae posted:Boy guys, I think I spotted a little problem out in the field: I'm a bit confused as to what I'm supposed to be seeing here. The black tire marks are surely construction traffic from soon after the paving was completed, yes? It's tempting to think those are skid marks, but that doesn't really make sense. The ones moving from the shoulder to the main line in particular - that would be someone accelerating / laying down rubber, which just seems impossible. If it was an emergency stop it wouldn't keep continuing. And the short little wavy tracks are likewise probably a truck that drove off of the hot asphalt, picking up some asphalt binder on the tires, then it sat there a while and the asphalt cooled, then it drove off. Someone slamming on the brakes wouldn't be able to create such fast back-and-forth skid marks. Is the picture just showing all that new pavement real estate that was meant to be accel / taper instead of full width shoulder? Don't you need healthy amounts of full width shoulder at the end of your accel anyway? It's hard to tell from the picture and without plans, but if I had the choice of ending a taper before I hit that curve, or tapering through that curve, with inadequate shoulder immediately past it, I think I would end the taper earlier. Especially if it's an existing condition that people have gotten used to working with.
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Sep 10, 2013 20:59
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Pook Good Mook posted:It's so darn beautiful to look at but given the huge space it takes up I'm not sure how practical it would be without a Communist government that can just snatch up the land necessary. Imagine if they hadn't done the spiraling trick and that bridge had to touch down somewhere half a kilometer inland. I'd say the hassle of clearing out a smallish block is a lot less than securing the ROW for a longass corridor, communist country or not.
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Sep 10, 2013 21:12
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