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WhiteWolf123 posted:Agreed dude. They just seem so expensive. Maybe I'm undervaluing them, but without an invulnerable save, they just seem too fragile for that kind of points expenditure. Dark Angel allies can give them a 4++, I guess. That might be throwing more points into bad, though. They also don't really need Tank Hunters, a squad of 3 with TL-Las/ML will eliminate an AV12 vehicle on average per turn. I guess Tank Hunters would make it more of a sure thing, though. Tank Hunters also won't really effect Grav cannon dudes.
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Sep 7, 2013 17:58
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Dark Angel allies can give them a 4++, I guess. That might be throwing more points into bad, though. I think Tank Hunters would be best used if you also take the Split Fire upgrade, because it'll make both groups of shots better.
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Sep 7, 2013 18:05
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Not a viking posted:What about the black mace or the murder sword for the lod on bike? I like the black mace. I run it on my nurgle biker lord. The only thing it really lacks is a good ap value. You can somewhat make up for this with volume of attacks. I haven't math hammered it out, but I mostly play in a casual environment and it's a pretty fun weapon, so I use it. I'm not sure how it stacks up in a competitive environment, but I know the black mace is a decent daemon prince weapon (though that unit seems a little overcosted to me.) I'm not a big fan of the murder sword though. It can be useful if your opponent took a combat oriented HQ, but you have to get into combat with them for it to be any good. One of the big disappointments with the chaos codex is the lack of god specific daemon weapons for everyone but Khorne. GW really missed the mark there in my opinion.
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Sep 7, 2013 18:15
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Hrm, maybe I will throw missiles on them after all. I forgot that they can also throw out small blasts. I played a small game with a friend who wanted to try out the new book last night and the Centurions were pretty mean. In turn 1 they glanced my command Razorback to death and in turn 2 they fired 15 grav shots at my Deathwing squad, got 15 wounds, and killed the whole squad. It was pretty nuts.
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Sep 7, 2013 18:38
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Yes, it appears to be true. I can't believe they removed the special weapons options from the Command Squads. God drat that really blows. Now they have to take combi-weapons instead of the special weapon versions of the guns. I liked that one of the model showcases for command squads still show the vet with plasma gun even though it's no longer a legal option (page 133). I wonder if it's just an oversight and will be FAQ'd at some point?
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Sep 7, 2013 18:58
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drgnvale posted:I liked that one of the model showcases for command squads still show the vet with plasma gun even though it's no longer a legal option (page 133). God I hope so. I thought that being able to take the unit w/ more HQs and having the Apothecary be optional if you want extra special weapons would finally push the unit into having enough flexibility to be worthwhile. And then suddenly ...no special weapons out of nowhere! Kick in the junk from GW. Not to mention that it obsoletes the current loadout that I've been running in random cornercase lists forever now. And on top of that, they neutered the already lackluster banner in that squad, without a points reduction. Jezuz. If it was intentional, I think it's because they didn't want a 5x Plasma/Grav gun squad being twin-linked (thrice over) with Untras and Tigerius. But still, I wish they didn't neuter the squad that was barely fringe playable to begin with. :-/ WhiteWolf123 fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 19:03
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Missiles are the same price (15), and they dropped 2 points per model. Tank hunter flakk missile devs would be pretty rad.
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Sep 7, 2013 19:08
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Naramyth posted:Tank hunter flakk missile devs would be pretty rad. Especially in an ADL + Quad Gun, so you get Tank Hunter on your Interceptor shots. 
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Sep 7, 2013 19:12
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Big deal alert: 5-man crusader squads can take a special weapon, heavy weapon AND something for the sarge. In a 5-man squad. 115 points for 5 marines with a multi-melta, meltagun and combi-melta. 35 points added to that for a rhino, you have the cheapest meltabunker. Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 19:18
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I can fit my entire 2000 point Ravenwing list into 1850 points using allies and Khan, except I have to trade a dark shroud for 10 scouts with cloaks and rifles. I guess this ally thing isn't so bad...
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Sep 7, 2013 19:22
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First image on the homepage. Pretty sure they come with a melta gun too, right?
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Sep 7, 2013 19:24
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VogeGandire posted:Big deal alert: 5-man crusader squads can take a special weapon, heavy weapon AND something for the sarge. In a 5-man squad. That you can only take in Black Templar detachments?
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Sep 7, 2013 19:26
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Fix posted:That you can only take in Black Templar detachments? Ally with other space marines, take a barebones captain or something with them.
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Sep 7, 2013 19:28
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VogeGandire posted:Ally with other space marines, take a barebones captain or something with them. I suppose. Or for 20 points less you can just take a tac squad and get four more bolters and access to the doctrines. Edit: Less. Fix fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 19:33
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This is the silliest round of errata yet. All they seemed to do was change how servo-arms work across all Imperial armies. There's some sort of errata in the BRB but they didn't magenta it so 
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Sep 7, 2013 22:19
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Thundercloud posted:Am I missing something about Centurions or are Assault Centurions slow and terrible and Devastator Centurions something you stick in a fortification with twin linked lascannon and missle launcher and just pound AV14 targets? With no invulnerable and as slow as they are, I just can't see any other real use for them. Well, the devastator Centurions can get cover fairly easily (or someone else said throw them in a bunker have have two shoot out every turn) so the lack of 5++ doesn't hurt them too bad. Plus T5 W2 means it will take S10 to insta-kill them, making them better than normal terminators against small-arms fire and lascannons. The assault Centurions suffer from slow-and-purposeful if they have it... no overwatch with your flamethrowers and no running means they can get tied up by anything. Granted NOTHING halfway elite will want to try to take them in combat.
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Sep 7, 2013 22:25
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LordAba posted:Well, the devastator Centurions can get cover fairly easily (or someone else said throw them in a bunker have have two shoot out every turn) so the lack of 5++ doesn't hurt them too bad. Plus T5 W2 means it will take S10 to insta-kill them, making them better than normal terminators against small-arms fire and lascannons. I don't know, you might want to feed them some tarpit unit and wait for the 1s to come up. Or anything with rending.
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Sep 7, 2013 22:33
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LordAba posted:Well, the devastator Centurions can get cover fairly easily (or someone else said throw them in a bunker have have two shoot out every turn) so the lack of 5++ doesn't hurt them too bad. Plus T5 W2 means it will take S10 to insta-kill them, making them better than normal terminators against small-arms fire and lascannons. Azrael blob would own them in no time. Axes or just a glob of attacks and they are swinging back killing what? 4 dudes?
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Sep 7, 2013 22:42
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With Pedro still making Sternguard scoring and IF tactics making bolters reroll 1s, along with the Tank Hunters thing for Devs, there's no way I'm not running my Dark Angels as counts-as Crimson Fists.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:02
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LordAba posted:Well, the devastator Centurions can get cover fairly easily (or someone else said throw them in a bunker have have two shoot out every turn) so the lack of 5++ doesn't hurt them too bad. Plus T5 W2 means it will take S10 to insta-kill them, making them better than normal terminators against small-arms fire and lascannons. Two models can fire out of each fire point of a building and every facing of the Bastion has at least two fire points (you can construct it so that one of the facings has three fire points.) That means up to six Devastator Centurions can fire out of a Bastion. I'd probably just go with a min unit but that's 280 points plus 75 minimum for the Bastion (probably put a Quad-gun and a sniper Scout unit on the roof, they get a 2+ cover save with camo cloaks because Fortifications offer a 3+ cover save.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:04
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^^^ I'm thinking the Firestorm Redoubt. Only one firepoint, but it's pretty long so you shouldn't have too many sight issues. Plus two quad AA lascannons. A good chunk of points, but it does make a very good firebase. If you wanted to take it further you could take two lascannon and two heavy bolter centurions for anti-vehicle and anti-infantry! Naramyth posted:Azrael blob would own them in no time. Axes or just a glob of attacks and they are swinging back killing what? 4 dudes? I wouldn't consider an azreal blob halfway elite though! Other than a blob I don't think anything can take them out one-on-one. Even thunderhammer termies will take some casualties before taking them down. Maybe equal points in thunderwolves, or getting lucky with rending (genestealers/raveners). But as you said: mass guard or mass poison gaunts, etc, etc will still take them down. Granted it's not like marines lack for taking down hordes. Whirlwinds and thunderfire cannons are still pretty hard hitting against them. LordAba fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 23:07
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this troper posted:With Pedro still making Sternguard scoring and IF tactics making bolters reroll 1s, along with the Tank Hunters thing for Devs, there's no way I'm not running my Dark Angels as counts-as Crimson Fists. It doesn't re-roll Special Issue Ammo, but even so, it's still a good setup.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:15
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WhiteWolf123 posted:It doesn't re-roll Special Issue Ammo, but even so, it's still a good setup.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:33
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SRM posted:I hate that, like a lot. It makes less than zero sense that Tactical Marines would be better shots than veterans. Tac marines aren't using highly volatile specialized bolts.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:52
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PeterWeller posted:Tac marines aren't using highly volatile specialized bolts.
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Sep 7, 2013 23:55
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So, I haven't played much - but if I want to field a Blood Angels army can I get any points discounts for standard choices from the SM book or will they all be overpriced until their codex gets redone? I don't see any points changes in the back of the BRB or erratas.
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Sep 8, 2013 00:18
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SRM posted:And that makes them want to aim less why? If Bolter Drill's fluff is "Marines are taught to piss ammunition on their targets" then I can understand, but I'd think fire discipline would be something veterans would be pretty up on. It just seems like an odd dissonance between fluff and rules. Same thing is true of the assault doctrine. Assault marines get Fleet. Vanguard Vets get to reroll their entire charge range.
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Sep 8, 2013 00:22
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starkebn posted:So, I haven't played much - but if I want to field a Blood Angels army can I get any points discounts for standard choices from the SM book or will they all be overpriced until their codex gets redone? I don't see any points changes in the back of the BRB or erratas. If you're asking if you can use the newer SM codex unit prices but run a BA codex army; no. I mean ultimately it's up to whoever you are playing with if you want to make game changes like that but BA units (and every other marine equivalent codex) don't get to match cost with current SM unit prices because they are cheaper. Unfortunately all us BA players will have to wait wait our turn for a new codex just like everybody else has. Hopefully, rumor is that it will be some time late next year. Now if you wanted to run BA core with SM allies (or flip-flop); then you can reap the benefits of the new SM codex core units and still get BA unique units. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 00:23
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SRM posted:And that makes them want to aim less why? If Bolter Drill's fluff is "Marines are taught to piss ammunition on their targets" then I can understand, but I'd think fire discipline would be something veterans would be pretty up on. It just seems like an odd dissonance between fluff and rules. You can't see why a bolt filled with volatile chemicals may be less stable and accurate than a standard one? And it's wrong to say vets are less accurate. They still get the bonus when shooting regular bolts. And I'm pretty sure Bolter Drill's fluff is that the marines are taught to ignore everything and just throw as much
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Sep 8, 2013 00:26
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So for those of you who have the new Codex, has there been any real change to Lyssander? I only ask because the army that I am working on, and have been working on for over a year now, has a squad of Death Company lead by Lyssander at its core.
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Sep 8, 2013 00:42
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jadebullet posted:So for those of you who have the new Codex, has there been any real change to Lyssander? I only ask because the army that I am working on, and have been working on for over a year now, has a squad of Death Company lead by Lyssander at its core. He doesn't bolster defenses anymore, you reroll LD for nearby Imperial Fists, and he now has three different invulnerable saves as they put an Iron Halo on him for some reason. His warlord trait sees you getting extra victory points for having him kill the enemy warlord. And he costs 30 points more. Edit: Oh, err... your Bolter Drill won't work on your Death Company, if that's what you were going for. Fix fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 00:50
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Pacheeco posted:If you're asking if you can use the newer SM codex unit prices but run a BA codex army; no. I mean ultimately it's up to whoever you are playing with if you want to make game changes like that but BA units (and every other marine equivalent codex) don't get to match cost with current SM unit prices because they are cheaper. Unfortunately all us BA players will have to wait wait our turn for a new codex just like everybody else has. Hopefully, rumor is that it will be some time late next year. Okay thanks, I wasn't asking about special unit prices - just standard troop choices. Using allies is the way to go about it.
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Sep 8, 2013 00:56
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Fix posted:He doesn't bolster defenses anymore, you reroll LD for nearby Imperial Fists, and he now has three different invulnerable saves as they put an Iron Halo on him for some reason. His warlord trait sees you getting extra victory points for having him kill the enemy warlord. And he costs 30 points more. Also unless I'm mistaken Lysander's old "Bolter Drill" rule doesn't exist anymore and the new Bolter Drill from IF Chapter Tactics won't effect non-SM codex marine detachments which means that that Death Company unit doesn't get to be Relentless + TL Bolters when led by Lysander. So now he doesn't really bring any synergy to a DC unit at all as far as I can tell. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 01:02
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Crap. Well, looks like it is back to the drawing board with my army then. Such a shame. I didn't even get it done in time to enjoy that synergy.
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Sep 8, 2013 01:06
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PeterWeller posted:You can't see why a bolt filled with volatile chemicals may be less stable and accurate than a standard one? And it's wrong to say vets are less accurate. They still get the bonus when shooting regular bolts. Does Bolter Drill affect stormbolters or not? I'm assuming not, but Lysander +10 Tactical Terminators was my favorite way of creating a roving 24" bubble of gently caress you on a table.
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Sep 8, 2013 01:16
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It does.
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Sep 8, 2013 01:16
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Slimnoid posted:This is the silliest round of errata yet. FFS, fix the Burning Chariot ya turkeys!
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Sep 8, 2013 01:28
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SRM posted:I guess, it just seems weirdly gamey to me. I can't think of a single situation I'd ever have vets shooting regular bolts though. Maybe the rounds are so volatile and unstable they vibrate in the chamber, throwing off aim / or if they're left in to loong they will corrode the firing mechanism so have to be fired as quickly as possible / or ? If you want a fluff explanation to it then just come up with something. The rule *is* gamey because it's there to balance game elements I imagine.
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Sep 8, 2013 01:40
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AgentF posted:FFS, fix the Burning Chariot ya turkeys! I'm getting the sinking suspicion that frequent website FAQs are quietly on the way out now that they can digitally update their E-Codexes. Only website FAQ blatant screw-ups and then leave everything else until the next codex release or just push all the FAQ changes to digital only and then say "Look how much better the E-Codexes are!". There are so many questions/issues that could be easily resolved with a "Yes/no, this is how we intended XYZ" that they haven't gotten to it's hard to believe that they ever will at this point. Also I'm beginning to think that that is really how they intended the Burning Chariot to work 
Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 01:49
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So, I bought the plastic Aspiring Champion model for a Chaos Lord conversion I wanted to do. It's a really nice model, but I had to make a few changes:    He'll be run with a powerfist and a lightning claw represented by the sword. I wanted to echo the way my demon prince is built with a pronged sword and a huge hand. I think he's missing something though and I'd like to add something. I'm torn between either a cloak or trailing chains. Any thoughts?
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