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Exergy posted:Penfolds Bin 8 I recognized the "Bin" immediately, love Lindeman's Pinot Noir Bin 99, super cheap and good, local convenience store sells it. I wanted to post to ask for any info on White Bordeaux. It's seriously tops for me and my favorite expression of Sauvignon Blanc (I realize that's just part of the blend). What are some of the best buys for this stuff? Should you age it like a fine red? I also wish Americans would copy it more and sell "White Meritage." I'm sure such a thing exists I just have not seen it. I need to hit up more wine stores, live in Arlington, VA.
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Aug 7, 2013 19:03
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Any other fans of New Zealand wines in here? I find they're subtly different to their counterparts from other countries, often being much lighter than you'd expect yet keeping a similar body. My personal favourite is Herringbone Hills 2010 Pinot Noir, which is so light that it's comparable to a white wine and goes exceptionally well with seafood. Beautifully flavourful, light, minimal aftertaste and with a wonderful nose. When I visited New Zealand a few years ago I did a wineyard tour of Waiheke Island, visiting something like 8 wineyards on my way across the small island to a jazz festival on the other side. So many gorgeous wines in such a short space of time, had to fight the temptation to buy a bottle at each place on the way.
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Aug 9, 2013 23:50
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Yeah they're pretty good. And because their dollar is worthless they're pretty cheap in Australia.
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Aug 10, 2013 01:48
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Funny how perspective clouds things. NZ wines are actually overpriced in Australia because of WET taxes, transport costs, etc. Many of them are quite a lot cheaper in their home country when you consider the FX rate standalone.
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Aug 14, 2013 13:05
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Mills posted:Funny how perspective clouds things. NZ wines are actually overpriced in Australia because of WET taxes, transport costs, etc. Many of them are quite a lot cheaper in their home country when you consider the FX rate standalone. We tax the poo poo out of everything so it's a level playing field in that regard. However I don't know how much the glut is affecting the prices but an average bottle of Marlborough Sav Blanc (cool climate, moderate yield) can cost the same as some of the worst wine made in Australia (very hot climate, horribly over cropped), hence why NZ wines are some of the best selling wine here.
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Aug 14, 2013 13:58
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Let's talk about our local wine! It's easy to find info on classic wines, but I'd love to hear about what's being made near those of you living in less well-known regions. Ontario, Canada, like Germany, has a continental climate that's about as cold as one can possibly grow fine wine in. It's pretty rainy, about as wet as Burgundy. All winemaking takes place in the southernmost part of the Province, where the climate is moderated somewhat by Lake Ontario. Vinifera vines are relatively new here, only starting to be planted widely in the 1970s. Ontario is most famous for its icewine, but frankly it's not what we do best. What we grow best here is Riesling, dry and off-dry. Compared to Germany's, Ontario's Riesling achieves identical balance, with piercing acidity and intense minerality. The best Germans display more complexity and elegance, but Ontario is catching up fast. In twenty years, Ontario will stand with Mosel as producing an example of premiere Riesling. Expect to pay about $20 locally for good quality. We also make excellent Chardonnay. Styles vary, but understandably our best are those in the style of Chablis: acidic, mineral, and elegant. In hotter years, very good rich, intense, Meursault-style Chards can be made. The best range from about $35-60 per bottle. Other cool-climate varieties do well here, although so far not on a level with Riesling and Chard. Pinot Noir, Cab Franc, and particularly Gamay are the best of the others (not that many people really care about it).
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Aug 19, 2013 04:36
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Frankly, I'm far more excited about Gamay than anything else!
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Aug 19, 2013 20:43
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The 2008 Ghost of 413 might be a smooth wine, but it's also offensively bland. It has about as much taste as warm water.
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Aug 20, 2013 03:52
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Anybody want to lay some knowledge down about White Bordeaux or even White Meritage? Typically they are Sémillon and Sauvignon blanc. So good. I can't be the only serious fan.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:37
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Kasumeat posted:Let's talk about our local wine! It's easy to find info on classic wines, but I'd love to hear about what's being made near those of you living in less well-known regions. Talking of BC wine, when I was in Canada in 2011, I tried something new on a tour of an Okanagan winery. I loved it - deep and strong, darker-tasting than a Rioja (to which I'm especially partial). I remember thinking how perfectly it'd go with a Sunday roast, beef or lamb. The name was, to the best of my memory, something German. I couldn't remember the name of the winery since I visited on a complete whim, by taking a bus out of town and walking along the road until I found somewhere with a tour. After an evening of research, I have established that it was the Quail's Gate winery, and (though I remember the name being more complicated) it was probably their Old Vines Foch. The cherry/chocolate/tobacco description the winery gives rings a bell but being honest they're some of the least original ways to describe a strong red since "leather". Anyway I'd like to try it again, not least to see if it's the same thing I remember. If anybody knows where to get hold of a Foch in the UK, especially a BC one, please post in here letting me know. I'm not quite desperate enough to ask the thread to post me one but that may change in the future.
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Aug 21, 2013 00:51
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simplefish posted:Talking of BC wine, when I was in Canada in 2011, I tried something new on a tour of an Okanagan winery. I loved it - deep and strong, darker-tasting than a Rioja (to which I'm especially partial). I remember thinking how perfectly it'd go with a Sunday roast, beef or lamb. The name was, to the best of my memory, something German. I couldn't remember the name of the winery since I visited on a complete whim, by taking a bus out of town and walking along the road until I found somewhere with a tour. Marechal Foch is a neat little hybrid. I used to sell a lot of it when I lived in the Okanagan. It's named after the French Marshall during WWI. It comes from Goldriesling and a clonal vitis riparia. Came around in response to phylloxera. There were huge plantings of it in BC until NAFTA came around and the Industry was less subsidised and they brought in more International varietals. Anyways, Quails Gate is one of the better ones in BC. There are a lot of super lousy ones that taste like bad cabbage and compost. Lang in Naramata also had a good one a few years back. I don't think it's that common outside of Canada--and I think there's more in Ontario, but I could be mistaken.
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Aug 22, 2013 20:01
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Comb Your Beard posted:Anybody want to lay some knowledge down about White Bordeaux or even White Meritage? Typically they are Sémillon and Sauvignon blanc. So good. I can't be the only serious fan. Love it, for sure. White Bordeaux can be a beautiful thing, and it's generally over-shadowed by the reds & dessert wines. Château Carbonneau and Y d'Yquem are classics. The brightness and balancing acidity from the Sauvignon Blanc, the beeswax and texture of the Sémillon, and the hazelnut-vanilla of the oak is an amazing combination. I love White Burgundy, but this is possibly my favorite white wine from France (along with Alsatian Riesling). I've seen some Californians do a really good job working with the style. My favorite is Arietta's On the White Keys from Napa Valley, made by Andy Erickson. The 2010 was phenomenal. Some of the Sémillon (from the remarkable Hyde vineyard in Carneros) was botrytized, lending the wine a wonderful ginger/honey/saffron dimension. It was one of those wines I could sit and smell for hours. One of my favorite food & wine pairings ever was this wine with coconut-crusted halibut.
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Aug 24, 2013 08:30
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Alexander the Grape posted:I love White Burgundy, but this is possibly my favorite white wine from France (along with Alsatian Riesling). .
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Sep 5, 2013 20:43
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Noseman posted:Have you tasted white Hermitage? I've tried the '08 from Jean-Louis Chave, and that was a life-changing experience. Chave gets superlative with age too. And for a beautiful Rhone Viognier that's a touch more affordable but still pricey try Gangloff's Condrieu. I think it's even better, personally.
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Sep 6, 2013 00:01
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It is pretty much impossible to buy non local wines here. I tend to get Hawkes Bay Syrahs / Otago,Canterbury Reislings and pinot noirs / marlborough savis
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Sep 6, 2013 14:01
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My partner threw a wine & cheese tasting party last night with decent success. We spent only about $150 on supplies, and managed to get rid of nearly everything (meaning our guests either ate, drank, or took home with). The only problem we encountered is that 2 of the couples commented on our wine glass selection, and that we should have changed glass shape moving from whites to reds. One of the couples actually skipped a round of red wine tasting (about 6 brands) because of the "wrong glasses shape". Do I need to grab another dozen wine glasses to match the color of the wine, or are my non-college educated friends from northwestern Kentucky full of poo poo?
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Sep 8, 2013 21:43
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You need better friends if they're turning their noses up like that at a party! 
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Sep 8, 2013 22:31
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SERPUS posted:Do I need to grab another dozen wine glasses to match the color of the wine, or are my non-college educated friends from northwestern Kentucky full of poo poo? You probably don't have a dozen fish knives or pickle forks either, and since you don't have the staff of Downton Abbey stocking all of these things there's no reason to buy them. If your friends can't enjoy a red wine from a standard wine glass then they don't actually know that much about wine or about how to be polite at a party. I've attended one wine tasting where the host guzzled the remains of a $200 Napa Cab straight from the bottle. I taste about a dozen wines a week as samples come in. There is a joy of having the perfect glass (I've got a Riedel Malbec glass that is gorgeous and perfect with Bordeaux blends), but most of the time the decision is based on "what do I feel like washing later?"
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Sep 8, 2013 23:29
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SERPUS posted:Do I need to grab another dozen wine glasses to match the color of the wine, or are my non-college educated friends from northwestern Kentucky full of poo poo? As long as a glass is clean, reasonably sized and has a stem, it's perfectly usable in tasting all kinds of wine; reds, whites, rosé and sparkling. Heck, I'd say it's perfect for tasting beer and liquor too. Sure, different glass can serve different functions. A wider glass is better for opening up a closed wine, and a slim glass is better at containing bubbles in a champagne for instance. But turning down a tasting because the same type of glass is used, which is the case on every single professional tasting I've ever been to, is just pathetic. Noseman fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 23:45
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Noseman posted:They are indeed full of poo poo. Instead of enjoying a tasting, they're being blindly fooled by the marketing schemes made by the glass manufacturers. I just want to say I agree with everything this person said. I have seen firsthand the (subtle) differences different glassware can bring, and I still say that if your choice is being sober or drinking out of the "wrong" glass then...well, what the gently caress are you waiting for? Get drinking.
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Sep 8, 2013 23:57
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SERPUS posted:My partner threw a wine & cheese tasting party last night with decent success. We spent only about $150 on supplies, and managed to get rid of nearly everything (meaning our guests either ate, drank, or took home with). Every professional wine judging in Australia (and probably elsewhere unless Reidel or whatever is a sponsor) uses ISO glasses for all their wines. Unfortunately it sounds like your friend have gotten caught up in the wank that inevitably surrounds wine culture. 
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Sep 9, 2013 00:00
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I'll concur with everybody else. However, there is one thing (besides the extremely obvious) about your glassware that's actually important: it should be large enough to enable swirling without spilling. It really does make a difference to how much aroma you get from a wine. Unrelated: Is there anybody in the New World making affordable Northern Rhone-style Syrah? I love the really meaty, savoury style with a surprising leanless to it, but here your entry level Cote-Rotie is $70. My experience with the less Syrah-heavy appellations has been decent but not truly satisfying.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:05
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Kasumeat posted:Unrelated: Is there anybody in the New World making affordable Northern Rhone-style Syrah? I love the really meaty, savoury style with a surprising leanless to it, but here your entry level Cote-Rotie is $70. My experience with the less Syrah-heavy appellations has been decent but not truly satisfying.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:17
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Kasumeat posted:Unrelated: Is there anybody in the New World making affordable Northern Rhone-style Syrah? I love the really meaty, savoury style with a surprising leanless to it, but here your entry level Cote-Rotie is $70. My experience with the less Syrah-heavy appellations has been decent but not truly satisfying. There are a few in Australia but finding them in among all the fruit bombs can be a bit tricky.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:35
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that Vai sound posted:Le Cigar Volant by Bonny Doon is excellent, but I'm unsure if it's Northern Rhone or what you consider affordable. It's definitely a Rhone and under $70 (depending on vintage and bottle size, I guess). Their summary of the 2008 mentions Northern Rhone. Noseman fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 09:04
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I wish I could say they are affordable, but Stolpman excels at all thing Syrah.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:44
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While we're talking about Stolpman, I recently had a Stolpman vineyard Nebbiolo from Palmina that was exceptional.Noseman posted:Have you tasted white Hermitage? I've tried the '08 from Jean-Louis Chave, and that was a life-changing experience. No  I'd love to have the experience, though!I just took the Certified Sommelier exam... I was part of the first group to do the service portion, so I finished super early. I've been killing myself studying everything I can because I had no idea how difficult the test would be. Every time I thought "I probably don't need to know that," I suddenly panicked and thought "but what if I DO need to know it?? Better memorize all the DOCGs of Veneto and their blending requirements!" I'm pretty sure I nailed the blind tasting (I called Mosel Riesling & California Pinot Noir), and I was pretty solid on most of the written questions. Service went okay... I'm sure I forgot something or other and zigged when I should have zagged, but I'm used to service and the Master Sommelier testing me is one I've met a few times, so that helped with the nerves. I knew the cocktails (Dark & Stormy and Sazerac) and did my best to put on a good show. Now to sit and wait for the results in around 3 1/2 hours.
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Sep 11, 2013 19:12
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Noseman posted:Have you tasted white Hermitage? I've tried the '08 from Jean-Louis Chave, and that was a life-changing experience. It's really too bad that stuff is so expensive, because it is SO drat good. I've had the luck of having the '04 on a few occasions and the '05 once. Both are brilliant wines. I have a bottle of '05 that I am sitting on for a special occasion. As far as the glassware discussion, I agree with what everyone else has said as well. I do however take my own glassware to friend's events if I don't think they will have proper stemware. Is it a douchey move? Sometimes, but I can't help myself. Having good glassware in lieu of crappy glasses you can't swirl or smell the wine in ruins an otherwise fun experience for me.
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Sep 16, 2013 13:27
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I travel to Nimes, France in 2 weeks. Any recommendations for wine-related activities I can do there? I know it isn't like visiting Napa, but I would like to see what is out there at all.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:26
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that Vai sound posted:Le Cigar Volant by Bonny Doon is excellent, but I'm unsure if it's Northern Rhone or what you consider affordable. It's definitely a Rhone and under $70 (depending on vintage and bottle size, I guess). Their summary of the 2008 mentions Northern Rhone. Le Cigar Volant is in the style of a southern Rhône actually. It's their take on Châteauneuf-du-Pape, the name is a cheeky reference to a local law which said flying saucers (a.k.a. flying cigars) were forbidden to fly over the vineyards. I love CdP and I loved Cigar Volant - my wallet is ambivalent to all.
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Sep 24, 2013 21:11
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Is Cor.kz still the preferred portable device front end for CellarTracker? We just got home from Sonoma and the few bottles we got aren't in the cellartracker db, with more on the way. It's a pain in the rear end to add to the DB in that app, so I end up using the web site.
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Sep 25, 2013 03:06
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I always felt that the CellarTracker mobile site on the new design was pretty good. Otherwise, I'd just add them at home, frankly.
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Sep 25, 2013 04:38
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Comb Your Beard posted:I wanted to post to ask for any info on White Bordeaux. It's seriously tops for me and my favorite expression of Sauvignon Blanc (I realize that's just part of the blend). What are some of the best buys for this stuff? Should you age it like a fine red? I also wish Americans would copy it more and sell "White Meritage." I'm sure such a thing exists I just have not seen it. I need to hit up more wine stores, live in Arlington, VA. Guess what I found several bottles of in the garage today, that I forgot I had? Apologies for the poor quality of pictures, all I have to hand is my 640x480 webcam. http://imgur.com/a/posj9 Now, I don't pretend to be well-versed in wine, but since you wanted stuff on White Bordeaux, I included everything it said on the bottle. Can't remember where it's from (except "France" - probably a supermarket) or how much it cost but I can't imagine it was very much. This site says $13 a bottle, but I notice the crown is missing from my label, and the date is printed differently. Export maybe? Anyway, I'm going to have a glass now.
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Sep 25, 2013 23:35
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Well it smells like a typical dry white. I don't normally drink white so I'm sorry I can't give a better description than that. It's a little on the watery side at first, mildly bitter, not unlike flat soda water. Not particularly crisp swilling it round the mouth, dry on the finish. I wouldn't call it refreshing - in fact, I'd go as far as disappointing. But then, as I say, I'm not a big fan of whites.
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Sep 26, 2013 00:30
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What's everyone's take on the biodynamic / natural or whatever you call it trend? I am pretty hooked at the moment. The Norwegian term is very simply translated from the French "vin naturel" as nature wine, which to me is a very interesting idea because it hints at what wine would have been to the neolithic people who discovered it or the classical antiquity people who documented it. There is a philosophical question if anything human is natural, but if we agree that anything pre-industrial is interesting, then please indulge me: Currently I am putting dents in a magnum of Frank Cornelissens Contadino 9 and it's really pushing my rational, Dawkins-ish self towards some Mother Earth hippie ideas. When I talked to the shop sellers, we laughed a bit at the risk I was taking buying it ($$) but I feel like I won. It is a very interesting wine, a type of wine you drink as a main course and look for food to match, not the other way around. It felt very carbonated in the beginning. There were no visible bubbles or anything, but it tasted as if it had a salty, naturally fizzy mineral water type of quality. I was definitely biased to expectation, I thought this would be a really crazy experience. But when experiencing it, it is weird, but not crazy at all. It DOES taste like Etna, or at least my idea of a volcano island exposed to ocean climate. Hot fruit and cool salt. The smell, to be polite, was farmyard or perhaps closer to human reliefs to begin with. But the taste was inexplicably different. I completely bought the idea of black volcanic soil in the middle of the wild, but warm, ocean. And it lives! Two hours in it is very different. The cool salty dryness is reduced, in its place there's a ballooning sweetness and fruitiness. The *ahem* outhouseish nose is replaced by deep purple plum. And that's how it is thus far. I love this living, breathing thing, but I realize it's not for every palate, certainly not for every occasion (it's more of a "the bottle is the occasion" thing), but definitely something to try out for those who like wine. What sold me was the idea that this might be - if you think about it, all factors are there - what wine tasted like to a Roman emperor. Ola fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 18, 2013 |
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Oct 18, 2013 19:16
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TBH I'm not a huge fan of the term 'natural wine' because no wine is natural no matter how unhygienic and uncontrolled the conditions it's made under are. That said, they are quite interesting compared with the usual fruit bombs we tend to get in Australia, and the fact that people buy them make it hard to criticize the concept.
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Oct 19, 2013 00:00
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I'm a huge fan of Natural Wine, or whatever terminology you prefer. I know that idiotsavant (sorry for dropping off the face of the planet; personal stuff) who posts here a lot is also a big fan, and has in fact helped produce natural wine right here in California both for Clos Saron, and on his own. Personally I'm a huge fan of some of the stuff coming out of Anjou, particularly Grange aux Belles, and I think any of the Dressner wines is worth a look. I particularly like Olivier Lemasson, Clos du Tue Bouef, Clos Rougeard (sp?), and Clos Roche Blanc. Collier is a super solid non Dressner producer, made by the son of one of the brothers who runs Clos Rougeard.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:26
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Are we talking about the same thing? As gay picnic defence alluded to, natural winemaking is a pretty vague/bad term. There are also a lot of practices of natural winemaking that have nothing to do with biodynamics, the philosophy of agriculture championed by Rodolf Steiner. It sounds like you're talking about natural winemaking, not biodynamics. I think it's undeniable that natural wines taste more complex than conventional ones, and I would argue the vast majority of natural wines are just higher quality. However, I really hate the trend for some producers, often the more highly regarded ones, who take this to an extreme, producing highly flawed wines. Oxidation, brett, and other "faults" add complexity and increase concentration of flavour. Too much of them and the wine is indeed faulted. I've recently tasted some super-premium natural wines that were "sound", but reeked so strongly of brett, acetaldehyde, and who knows what other faults that they were some of the most disgusting wines I've had in my life. Interesting? Defintely, I'm certainly intrigued that somebody would produce this on purpose, and more so that people would pay hundreds of dollars for a bottle. Complex? Certainly, with thousands of different species of microorganisms contributing to the aroma, I could write tasting notes for hours without even mentioning fruit. Displaying terroir? Absolutely, I've got an excellent idea of the microbial makeup of your winery. Long-lived? No doubt, I'm confident these wines are as oxidised as they'll ever be. Pleasurable? Not in the slightest.
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Oct 19, 2013 06:04
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Whoa, there's certainly different opinions! I agree that the term is vague, I am referring to wine which is made without additives, of which there can be many at every stage of the process. It is truer to its own terroir than a very industrialized wine, but not necessarily more so than a good winemaker who only uses some modern processes to avoid faults. In Cornelissen's Contadino, there are faults present which would make you doubt the bottle if you weren't expecting it. There's even a funny misspelling on the label, "consume with responsability". But to me the faults are no worse than organic carrots being a bit weirdly shaped. It is just the natural result when you don't control every stage of the process. I think "ancient wine" might be a better term as it's closer to what made the Romans go "hic!". It is a boutique product in a way, "hand made" is often used in the marketing of many expensive products. And it's not a strict set of rules. I think any natural winemaker would add SO2 instead of losing a vintage. To me, it's fun, interesting and worth the price. But I probably wouldn't serve it as a dinner host.
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Oct 19, 2013 08:41
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Kasumeat posted:
This is the opposite of a sound wine. Ola posted:It is a boutique product in a way, "hand made" is often used in the marketing of many expensive products. Nah it's not that. Plenty of small boutique winemakers make very clean, professional wines. 'Natural wine' is frequently a deliberate decision to do or not to do some operation like inoculation, racking, or lees stirring. Spending $1000s on some giant ceramic 'egg' to ferment your booze in strikes me as the total opposite of natural. I don't criticize the wines themselves, but the scene smacks of marketing gimmick to me. The other thing I wonder is how much of the terroir can be showing if most of what you taste and smell in a wine is an artifact from millions of different microbial strains, a big whack of oxidation and a bit of spoilage; and not the inherent characteristics of the grapes derived from the site they've been grown in? Surely grapes fermented using a low flavour yeast, zero malo and controlled oxidation will allow the natural flavour of the grapes to be more prominent in a wine?
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Oct 19, 2013 12:09
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