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Bongo Bill posted:And yet, here we've got angels seemingly doing what Jack did. Eridan actually met angels, though maybe they wouldn't have been like this if he hadn't provoked them. This reminded me how absolutely wonderful this whole memo was: quote:CCG: YOU'RE KILLING ANGELS NOW, AREN'T YOU
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Sep 9, 2013 00:35
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I figured that their differing attitudes on angels were a result of interactions with different sorts of cherubs, which is kind of implied here.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:44
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Prison Warden posted:It's a neat idea, emphasising the negative aspects of something commonly seen as good, reminds me of Nobilis. Also the whole 'hope was the last evil in Pandora's box' thing.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:53
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Hremsfeld posted:Isn't that a good thing, though? You want things to be better, which means looking to where improvements can be made, and from then actually improving things. Depends. Do you want them to be better, or do you want them to be different? Stasis is never good, but change simply for the sake of change isn't much better? Is something actually better, or does it just seem that way because somebody else has it? Ambition isn't always good, etc. There's something to be said for recognizing a good thing and being content with it.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:55
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Hremsfeld posted:Isn't that a good thing, though? You want things to be better, which means looking to where improvements can be made, and from then actually improving things.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:09
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Hremsfeld posted:Isn't that a good thing, though? You want things to be better, which means looking to where improvements can be made, and from then actually improving things. Are greed and ambition necessarily good things? Is a good thing to desire that which never will be attained? Buddhism and Christianity both treat such things as ultimately detrimental to individual happiness and spiritual peace, for example. Learning to accept one's place in life and come to terms and peace with it is something many religions emphasize as being the path to fulfillment. Different frameworks can present attributes in both positive and negative lights.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:26
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Zorak posted:Are greed and ambition necessarily good things? Is a good thing to desire that which never will be attained? Hope doesn't mean desiring something that will never be attained, it means believing there's a chance of attaining something, whether that's realistic or not. You can have a hope that eventually comes true. Zorak posted:Buddhism and Christianity both treat such things as ultimately detrimental to individual happiness and spiritual peace, for example. Learning to accept one's place in life and come to terms and peace with it is something many religions emphasize as being the path to fulfillment. But if everybody accepted their place in life without question, there'd never have been women's suffrage, or the Magna Carta, or exploration of the new world, or, well, the United States. We'd still be a colony. It's one thing to recognize that values can vary, but it's really hard to disparage hope itself without sounding deliberately obtuse or cartoonishly evil.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:46
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Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary posted:HOPE, n. Desire and expectation rolled into one.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:49
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That proves my point about it being obtuse and exaggeratedly villainous pretty well, since it's a tongue-in-cheek satire called The Devil's Dictionary.
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Sep 9, 2013 01:57
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Lil Durandal has a fantastic essay about the depiction of Hope in Homestuck. I know there's rightly some skepticism of Homestuck analysis bloggers (who are often beating a drum for their preferred ending/character pairing, using whatever trivial details the text provides) but I have a lot of respect for Durandal's analysis. And it's important to remember that Aspects in Homestuck cover a variety of abilities and meanings: Light doesn't just mean "seeing" or "shooting light beams" but also "chance", "information", "communication" as well as some sinister/Lucifer-like qualities. There's no reason that "Hope" can't encompass just as many positive and negative attributes. I'm really anxious to see, visually, how Aranea's meddling has changed Jake; I think the way his design changes (if it does) will give us a sense of where his character is heading, as a force in the narrative and/or potential component of Lord English. If Jake steps out of the light shirtless and RIPPPPPPPPPPPED, for instance, that'd be an amusing continuation of the "Jake English is inexplicably hot" gag, as well as another creepy similarity to the villain. Or maybe Hussie's got something else planned. I also hope Erisolsprite shows up. To me, Erisol reads way more like an evolution of Eridan than a real hybrid of two characters. And assuming Hussie brought Eridan back for a reason, it seems like this would be a good time for Eridan to offer his services, as the comic's #1 authority both hope and on the murderin of angels, as well as a penitent villain in need of some kind of resolution.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:02
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I figure having Hope is just the ability to desire a change or better outcome, or at least favorable change in matters. In that regard, it's pretty freaking neutral and just push things into a different position. Seriously, that's it, Eridan's hope powers helped kick start the collapse troll team collapse and now Jake's helping to kick start the race to the ending.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:02
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Zorak posted:Buddhism and Christianity both treat such things as ultimately detrimental to individual happiness and spiritual peace, for example. Learning to accept one's place in life and come to terms and peace with it is something many religions emphasize as being the path to fulfillment. Now, I knew fuckall about Buddhism and in the scheme of things I still know fuckall about Buddhism, but earlier in the year I ran into a Buddhist chaplain who told me Buddhism is also about pursuing passion and ambition, that there is is divinity in all of us and that we fight our nature whenever we shoot ourblahblahblahblahglubglubglub. Apparently the parts of Buddhism I was familiar with fit better with the elderly and folks whispering the Serenity Prayer than go-getters in the Army? Maybe he's full of poo poo, maybe I'm looking for something that never existed, but you'll still have an easier time finding people agree on what's good or what good even means (alignment arguments in the OotS thread) than what we oughta think of a Serket.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:13
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Tunicate posted:Also the whole 'hope was the last evil in Pandora's box' thing. Unless I'm misremembering, wasn't the meaning of that one that at least one good, final thing came out of the box? VVV dammit, I knew my version sounded too happy for a greek myth. VVV Blackheart fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 02:20
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You are misremembering. Pandora closed the lid before hope escaped, which the ancient greeks considered a sort of curse on humanity due to the anguish it causes. edit: Remember that in Greek mythology even the gods weren't able to change fate, including for themselves. voting third party fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 02:33
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Blackheart posted:Unless I'm misremembering, wasn't the meaning of that one that at least one good, final thing came out of the box? That's the nice version. The mean version is that it was the last cruelty of the gods--that we have to live with the evils of the world because we won't kill ourselves to end them... hope drags us forwards, promising that things will be better tomorrow, but none of the evils will be gone tomorrow. None of the evils will ever leave us alone, and hope was there to make sure we'd experience every one of them. Greek mythology had real shits for Gods. There's a reason Christianity spread so fast, and it's because most of the previous religions were pretty grim.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:34
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Yeah, hope didn't escape. Which I always thought was weird because then, where does it come from?
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Sep 9, 2013 02:37
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That's a matter that people have debated for centuries. I doubt even Hesiod really knew.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:40
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The point being is that pure unadulterated hope, like faith, can lead to severe delusions. And if the current hopesplosion is any indication of Jake's newfound power we better pray that he has his head screwed on right. (Which is as unlikely as Dad and DD surviving this)
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Sep 9, 2013 02:49
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Well, I certainly Hope that Dad survives long enough for John to see him.
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Sep 9, 2013 02:51
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Eh, focusing on hope's negative interpretation because people normally think of it as innocent and good feels a little "edgy". Kind of like making angels be feral monster-faced whatever they Ares. Giving Hope to the useless Amporas and now Jake who's gone up in a Hopesplosion makes hope a more nuanced aspect, sure, but we don't need to redefine hope into a grim virtue of antiquity. If Jake gets his head screwed on right by the end of the story, he'll probably be running on good old fashioned "believe in yourself, night is darkest before dawn" hope.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:01
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So at this point we're all in agreement that Eridan is the true hero of homestuck, correct?
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Sep 9, 2013 03:17
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, I certainly Hope that Dad survives long enough for John to see him. I really don't feel like Dad is going to die until he meets John, if only because that's obviously the reason he even made it this long in the first place. You know there's totally going to be this awkward/touching "I know you're not really my dad, but you were my dad" scene and Dad just hugs the heck out of Egbert because that's what dads do.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:02
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nerdbot posted:I really don't feel like Dad is going to die until he meets John, if only because that's obviously the reason he even made it this long in the first place. Or hits him in the face with a cake or something.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:04
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frozentreasure posted:Or hits him in the face with a cake or something. That's how you know it's still the same Dad. 
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Sep 9, 2013 04:22
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Jake is just exuding the angels. He's sweating hope.
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Sep 9, 2013 06:46
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If Jake turned into pretty much Young Colonel Sassacre that'd be pretty loving great.
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Sep 9, 2013 06:48
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You become... My God. YOU BECOME... Jake English. Really, you are just utterly astounded by how lovely your IMAGINATION is. If your IMAGINATION was a face you would punch it. In the face.
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Sep 9, 2013 06:49
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edit: Okay, wrong place. Still, update. I suppose since this isn't turning out to be a complete disaster, it brings about the question of when it's right overstep the boundaries. I'll still eagerly await for when something decides to go horribly wrong for Aranea. Ramos fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 07:15
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Getting some real problem sleuth vibes from these updates. The angels forming from his power reminds me of the Satangelic Hawking Radiation stuff. The whole power up sequence reminds me a bit of Sepulcritude (which is fitting, since it was an attack only someone with incredibly high charisma could pull off). Plus the whole wings thing.  Plus, if we're making comparisons between Jake and cherubs, there's the whole black hole / white hole thing.
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Sep 9, 2013 07:24
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Sep 9, 2013 07:25
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Where the hell is Aranea? I didn't expect her plan to go south that quickly.
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Sep 9, 2013 08:07
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I have to say, Jake's face in the last panel is not one of someone having a good time. Despite what Tally Ho! says otherwise.
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Sep 9, 2013 08:31
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Hussie bought a thing.
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Sep 9, 2013 09:32
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Honestly surprised
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Sep 9, 2013 09:58
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Seoinin posted:So if you strip the insufferable dumbshit out of Jake, what are you left with exactly? called it
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Sep 9, 2013 10:27
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I know everyone was joking about how he should totally buy it, but i didn't expect him to actually DO it. Hussie owns.
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Sep 9, 2013 12:32
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"And so the Great Tally Ho was uttered, and the 503 angels did ride forth and spread the word that the Page was awake and poo poo was wrecked."
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Sep 9, 2013 12:46
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In obvious preparation for a live-action Homestuck sequence.
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Sep 9, 2013 13:43
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Oops, poo poo's REALNESS ATTRIBUTE just highrocketed. Time to POSE AS A TEAM? Is this the Vast TallyHo?
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Sep 9, 2013 13:44
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Blackheart posted:Oops, poo poo's REALNESS ATTRIBUTE just highrocketed. Time to POSE AS A TEAM? Pose as a disgruntled bundle of kids who have no idea what they're doing? Yeah, the Problem Sleuth characters had their poo poo way more together.
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Sep 9, 2013 13:56
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