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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I haven't read Libriomancer but yeah, "'sup Gollum, nice ring you got there" would seem to be the obvious go-to. Hell, go for the elven rings for safety if you're a gigantic wussy. All of Tolkien's work is stated to be locked because gently caress some idiot pulling The One Ring out of that thing. quote:Or hell. Aladdin's lamp (or for that matter Aladdin's ring). Pulling intelligent beings out of a book drives them violently insane, so that's locked too. quote:What about an AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide? It has a list of magical items in it . .. Ring of Wishes, Rod of Resurrection . .. The second book implies that all D&D errata is immediately locked as a matter of course. quote:Can you just write your own book then pull poo poo from it? That's a plot point in the first book. Stroth fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 16:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:What about an AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide? It has a list of magical items in it . .. Ring of Wishes, Rod of Resurrection . .. The D&D books are explicitly called out as all being locked, and one of the Porter's big deals is they have dudes read as many books as possible when they're published and note down either useful stuff in them, or have them flagged to be locked if they're too dangerous. Also your second bit is an important part of the first book's plot. e: Also gently caress, the second book ends on a really 'what the gently caress?' note. I know it was mentioned a couple times beforehand but Gutenberg locking Isaac is like, where the gently caress do you go from there? I'm not sure that if I had had that kind of power and then had it taken away from me that I would be able to cope, jesus. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 16:44
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Stroth posted:All of Tolkien's work is stated to be locked because gently caress some idiot pulling The One Ring out of that thing. Ok, I suppose. I probably shouldn't be so harsh on the concept because I really enjoyed Jim C. Hines' Goblin books but it still sorta seems like "no, it all works because [reasons]". There are just so many books out there in so many languages that I have a hard time believing the world wouldn't fall apart in one way or another. I mean, gently caress, some rear end in a top hat could pull out the virus from The Stand just to be a dick.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:48
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Stroth posted:The second book implies that all D&D errata is immediately locked as a matter of course. Goddamn GURPS fanboys 
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Sep 9, 2013 16:48
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404GoonNotFound posted:Goddamn GURPS fanboys Nah, gimme some old Palladium books so I can pull out a Glitterboy suit. Oh, wait, size, gently caress.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Can you just write your own book then pull poo poo from it? You can but the amount of the magic the book is capable of channeling is proportional to the readership base, if I recall correctly.
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Sep 9, 2013 16:53
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pseudonordic posted:You can but the amount of the magic the book is capable of channeling is proportional to the readership base, if I recall correctly. Ok then, that makes it sound far more workable. You still seem to have the problem of who controls what gets "locked" and "unlocked", though. Totally pulling that Balefire wand out of the Wheel of Time books. It didn't require channeling!
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Sep 9, 2013 16:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok then, that makes it sound far more workable. You still seem to have the problem of who controls what gets "locked" and "unlocked", though. And the good news is the books drop more than a few hints that Gutenberg is a really huge douche! And yeah, at one point a non-Libriomancer is all "Why don't you guys print up a hundred-foot copy of Star Wars and pull X-Wings out of it?" the answer to which is "Then we would have to print a couple thousand of these hundred-foot books and find people to read/believe in them all" There's also an in-built limit on how much/often a book can be used; over-using it 'chars' it and renders it unable to be used for magic for a period of time (upwards of decades in some cases) (e: This applies to all copies of that book, if I char a copy of Harry Potter in my local library NOBODY can use that version/edition of Harry Potter for magic, since the magic is not coming from the physical book I'm holding, it's coming from every single copy of that book) ALSO using Libriomancy is basically literally injecting yourself into the magic of the book and if you push yourself too hard you risk the inhabitants of that book taking up residency in your head, couple this with the fact that Libriomancy causes a sort of manic euphoria at the same time it fatigues you and begins fraying away at your judgement and Bad Things can happen quite easily. So yeah, if you boil it down to the very basic "X doesn't work because [reasons]" is valid - but those reasons are thought out well enough that I didn't find it hard to suspend m disbelief. e: I think my favorite gag so far has been an offhanded remark that while people have managed to pull Sonic Screwdrivers out of Doctor Who books, they're useless because nobody's every figured out how to make it work. 
WarLocke fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 17:08
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All you really need for an apocalypse is a few poorly-written nanobots.
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Sep 9, 2013 17:36
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Tunicate posted:All you really need for an apocalypse is a few poorly-written nanobots. Hello second book plot point. 
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Sep 9, 2013 17:45
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WarLocke posted:
The same was the case with the wands in Harry Potter. You can pull out the wand, it will be functional, but you need to have the knowledge and skill to use it, which isn't really imparted from a description of "swish and flick."
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Sep 9, 2013 17:45
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WarLocke posted:Hello second book plot point. Well, everyone's already able to pull out the
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Sep 9, 2013 18:20
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The magic in Libriomancer stands up to first pass logic. Across both books, it's pretty consistent, the holes are wrapped up with enough internal logic to not drive trucks through them, and all the dangerous stuff is acknowledged pretty explicitly on screen. If you're nerdy enough, there's a lot of "why doesn't the character just do X" thoughts that exactly happen that way, or are explicitly mentioned as not possible for decently logical reasons. Sure, if you spend enough time nitpicking, you'll find holes (like every series ever), but it does a pretty good job of covering the bases and hand waving the rest away in a reasonable fashion. The series suffers from pacing and scope issues mostly. It's like a C level series with a B level magic system - with a bit more description on the action and a bit more forethought on narrative flow, it could be a solid B across the board.
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Sep 9, 2013 18:27
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Are there any other types of magic in the world, or is it just book magic?
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Sep 9, 2013 18:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Are there any other types of magic in the world, or is it just book magic? Libriomancy is described as having been 'invented' because Gutenberg wasn't powerful enough to be a 'real' sorceror, so presumably 'normal' magic is possible, just very, very rare. One of the characters is said to use bardic magic, and there have been hints of it in the books, but no real rules have been laid out for it. A character in the second book seems to be able to do some 'impossible' things with Libriomancy (using an e-reader as mentioned earlier, a couple other things) but the book teases that it may be an inherent thing to her and not a new use of Libriomancy. The second book also introduces what may be an older/earlier type of Libriomancy which also hasn't had any 'rules' exposited. Then there's all the different types of magic used by non-humans. Vampires, werewolves, wendigos, etc. Not sure if that was what you were thinking about though. Also Smudge is the BEST character. 
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Sep 9, 2013 18:35
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WarLocke posted:Also Smudge is the BEST character. At this point, I'm willing to say that Smudge > Oberon in the supporting character category.
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Sep 9, 2013 18:42
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Libriomancy is a thing that is ruthlessly controlled by an organization, headed by a grade-A douchebag. There are a lot of people involved, and few of them are field agents. Most of the work of the organization is preventative: read all the books. Flag them for locking if they're bad. The field agents come in when stuff comes up that doesn't get flagged, or is used in unexpected ways. This can get messy.
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Sep 9, 2013 18:45
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Mortanis posted:At this point, I'm willing to say that Smudge > Oberon in the supporting character category. Oberon is from that Iron Druid series, right? I guess I should read those. I also really liked the looks we got at some of the other field agents. One had a skirt-thing made up of books, another dude had a self-propelled wagon/cart following him around filled with books. And I still don't get whatever reference it was with that one woman who was using a straw and yo-yo in a fight. Also the dragon fight was  personified. The only thing that topped it was Smudge + "EAT ME"
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Sep 9, 2013 18:53
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Dienes posted:The same was the case with the wands in Harry Potter. You can pull out the wand, it will be functional, but you need to have the knowledge and skill to use it, which isn't really imparted from a description of "swish and flick." Or the sonic screwdriver from Doctor Who. It works apparently, but nobody can use it, because nobody managed to figure out how to use the controls.
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Sep 9, 2013 19:10
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Not sure if they really count as 'urban fantasy' and it's been years since I read them, but from memory Dean Koontz's Odd Thomas books were pretty good. No real obvious magic, but plenty of it and other spooky stuff implied; Odd has the ability to see the dead and keeps getting drawn into occult mysteries.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:00
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Decius posted:I found the first one ok, with some problems, and liked the second quite a bit more. Yeah, he makes his point about Lena clumsily and with a mallet over the head, but at least he tries to write something opposite to what Rothfuss does with women and sex. Urban Fantasy isn't a genre with a terribly high standard anyway, and I'd say the second Libromancer book at least manages to fall comfortably in the "not bad" category inside the genre. Butcher did worse with his second Dresden book at least. quote:Of course, if someone can't stand pop culture/nerd culture references every so often you will hate the books, but then, you probably can't stand Dresden either. Semi Libromancer-chat related; Mouse > Smudge > Oberon. Non-Libriomancer-chat: Just started the second Rivers of London book. They are awesome, though as a backwards and unwashed colonist I do sometimes have difficulty untangling the slang terms. I imagine I'll be back in this thread in a few weeks going 'Goddamnit when does the next one get released stateside!?  '
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Sep 9, 2013 20:32
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You know, that's not a bad point. Whenever you think that a book is leaning too heavily on the pop culture references, just remember that it will never be as bad as the lolcats sequence in Iron Druid.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:39
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Maybe the Dresden ones aren't as bad because they're all so dated. They're all Star Wars, Tolkien, or comic books. What's the most modern reference thrown about? I don't doubt Billy or Butters has dropped a meme at one point or another, but the vast majority of pop culture stuff is decidedly ancient in Dresden Files.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:52
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Mortanis posted:Maybe the Dresden ones aren't as bad because they're all so dated. They're all Star Wars, Tolkien, or comic books. What's the most modern reference thrown about? I don't doubt Billy or Butters has dropped a meme at one point or another, but the vast majority of pop culture stuff is decidedly ancient in Dresden Files. Which is why its oh so very entertaining when it comes up, which is not so often as to make it annoying.
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Sep 9, 2013 21:07
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Mortanis posted:Maybe the Dresden ones aren't as bad because they're all so dated. They're all Star Wars, Tolkien, or comic books. What's the most modern reference thrown about? I don't doubt Billy or Butters has dropped a meme at one point or another, but the vast majority of pop culture stuff is decidedly ancient in Dresden Files. Well that's because Harry can't really interact with anything higher-tech than a drive-in theater, and DVDs/Digital Distribution/etc is an utter mystery. Of course, this did lead to a nice moment in Cold Days where Bob with Butters-provided broadband makes a Firefly reference and Harry has no drat idea what he's talking about.
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Sep 9, 2013 21:12
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Mortanis posted:Maybe the Dresden ones aren't as bad because they're all so dated. They're all Star Wars, Tolkien, or comic books. What's the most modern reference thrown about? I don't doubt Billy or Butters has dropped a meme at one point or another, but the vast majority of pop culture stuff is decidedly ancient in Dresden Files. Iron Druid's PC references are doubly annoying because 1. They are usually unfunny random LOL MONKEY CHEESE bullshit and 2. They make no sense for the character. Atticus mostly spends his time doing druid stuff, and I can recall very few times in the series where he's interacting with people via the internet either on-camera or off-camera. Dude spends his time hanging out with: his talking dog, apprentice druid, neighborhood widows, ancient vampires, ancient werewolves, figures from mythology, and earth elementals. It's doubtful he'd even know what a rickroll is, letalone be spouting random memes like a /b/tard who forgot his adderall that morning.* *No offense towards /b/tards and/or those affected by ADD spectrum disorders was intended in this post.
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Sep 9, 2013 21:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I haven't read Libriomancer but yeah, "'sup Gollum, nice ring you got there" would seem to be the obvious go-to. Hell, go for the elven rings for safety if you're a gigantic wussy. Some of those run up against problems with bringing across intelligent beings, some of those can be done, in theory. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are locked. It's also strongly implied that the more powerful whatever you bring over is, the greater the combination of belief and power you need.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:19
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Atticus has been in hiding for a while, and he tries to blend in as the 20 odd year old that he looks like. There's a part where talks about this with Leif; he actually studies pop culture. Of course, it's ham-handed and awkward and generally reads horribly. I'm just saying that it makes sense that he knows what these things are.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:25
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The dog quoting Cartman was the worst.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:09
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Yes, Charity, Harry would clearly call you up to keep Molly out of jail and then try to sleep with her. That is something he would do. I mean, come on.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:23
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Justin_Brett posted:Yes, Charity, Harry would clearly call you up to keep Molly out of jail and then try to sleep with her. That is something he would do. In her defense, she hates Harry. Also Molly did walk out of the bathroom in nothing but a towel, and likely intended to at least get Harry's attention with the gesture. Charity's reaction wasn't restrained, but it was very much in character.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:38
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So I am about a third of the way into The Rook and it is a pretty drat interesting take on things. Instead of your typical vampires and mages it's almost a superpower-type setting.
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Sep 9, 2013 23:45
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This thread piqued my curiosity and I gave the Dresden Files a chance less than a month ago. I'm not disappointed, it's been great so far but I've just finished Changes and the ending is so  I guess I'll take a break before grabbing Ghost Story.
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Sep 10, 2013 01:47
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Angry Lobster posted:This thread piqued my curiosity and I gave the Dresden Files a chance less than a month ago. I'm not disappointed, it's been great so far but I've just finished Changes and the ending is so Just wait until you read Ghost Story. And then Cold Days. 
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Sep 10, 2013 01:49
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Khizan posted:Atticus has been in hiding for a while, and he tries to blend in as the 20 odd year old that he looks like. There's a part where talks about this with Leif; he actually studies pop culture.
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Sep 10, 2013 02:03
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Skippy McPants posted:In her defense, she hates Harry. Also Molly did walk out of the bathroom in nothing but a towel, and likely intended to at least get Harry's attention with the gesture. Yeah, but like, poo poo, that was sandwiched between Murphy reminding him she'll die far before he does and him throwing up upon realizing he might have been able to save someone's life and didn't. I'm only like halfway through this one, too.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:46
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Decius posted:Or the sonic screwdriver from Doctor Who. It works apparently, but nobody can use it, because nobody managed to figure out how to use the controls. Yeah, just like the wands in Harry Potter.
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Sep 10, 2013 06:20
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Skippy McPants posted:In her defense, she hates Harry. Also Molly did walk out of the bathroom in nothing but a towel, and likely intended to at least get Harry's attention with the gesture. No likely about it, Molly was practically throwing herself on him(I doubted she really needed a bath), except she didn't account for Harry having called her mom over.
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Sep 10, 2013 07:46
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I'm almost done with Cold Days and I'm thinking about giving the audiobooks another listening to at some point. Do they hold up well to a 2nd or 3rd reading? I'm just curious if Butcher actually has everything planned out or if he's just kind of trying to tie together a ton of threads at this point. I mean if I go through it again will I notice oh so this really WAS what Mab/Black Council/Demonreach/Outsiders/Adversary/whomever was up to the whole time!! or if it will still read like a shitload of separate but kinda sorta interconnected plots. I realize those examples I listed were pretty terrible, but I hope you all get the gist of what I mean.
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Sep 10, 2013 08:44
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Based on common writing methods, I believe he created most of the scenarios with a hook extending out, and then built upon them as time went on. Once an overarching plot thread was established these little clues dropped in the earlier phases can be attached to the main thread. And they're enigmatic enough that they could have fit any number of mysterious backers early on. So my guess is the Black Council thing really started becoming more than a vague idea around Dead Beat. And the first conception of a singular force backing everything in Grave Peril.
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Sep 10, 2013 09:02
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