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Tiger Schwert posted:This is why I wish the developer/s would move towards creating an original property (kickstarter?), then supporting all these old megawads doesn't become an issue. Or at the very least, tie it in with a proper map pack designed to accommodate these new rules. Yes, because a guy who can write DECORATE code in ZDoom and edit existing sprites is totally equipped to develop his own original property from the ground up. There's a great yawning chasm between "making a mod" and "developing a game," especially when it comes to something that is as relatively simplistic as Doom is. As for supporting old megawads, why is it imperative that the guy does this at all? The whole point of Brutal Doom is that it is a gameplay mod. It modifies the gameplay. As such, it's pretty much a guarantee that it is going to play differently from the default ruleset, and nobody should expect otherwise. Is it just Brutal Doom that bothers you so much, or do things like Project MSX and Samsara also rub you the wrong way?
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Sep 10, 2013 03:12
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Is it bad that as soon as he started talking about 'shmups' I started ignoring his opinion? I think I'm bigoted against people who like shmups or maybe I just hate the term shmups.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:17
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:Yes, because a guy who can write DECORATE code in ZDoom and edit existing sprites is totally equipped to develop his own original property from the ground up. There's a great yawning chasm between "making a mod" and "developing a game," especially when it comes to something that is as relatively simplistic as Doom is. As for supporting old megawads, why is it imperative that the guy does this at all? The whole point of Brutal Doom is that it is a gameplay mod. It modifies the gameplay. As such, it's pretty much a guarantee that it is going to play differently from the default ruleset, and nobody should expect otherwise. Is it just Brutal Doom that bothers you so much, or do things like Project MSX and Samsara also rub you the wrong way? Brutal Doom has been afforded a weird "legitimacy" that stuff like, say, Project MSX, or, if you want to get really old-school, Batman Doom, have not. I've seen it here, and at other gaming forums- this isn't being advertised so much as a gameplay mod, but something that "makes Doom Doomier", implying that it's true to Doom's gameplay, which is only true superficially.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:22
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:and nobody should expect otherwise. And yet people bitch about it all the time.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:23
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I'm just glad The Sky May Be was never legitimized in the same way Brutal Doom is.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:36
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Brutal Doom has been afforded a weird "legitimacy" that stuff like, say, Project MSX, or, if you want to get really old-school, Batman Doom, have not. I've seen it here, and at other gaming forums- this isn't being advertised so much as a gameplay mod, but something that "makes Doom Doomier", implying that it's true to Doom's gameplay, which is only true superficially. Why does this bother you?
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Sep 10, 2013 03:40
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tooooooo bad posted:Why does this bother you? It bothers me that new Doom players are being recommended mods that significantly change the base gameplay under the pretense that it merely "enhances" the base gameplay. It also bothers me that around 90% of all Doom chat in this thread is about Brutal Doom, but I guess that's a matter of taste.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:43
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Brutal Doom has been afforded a weird "legitimacy" that stuff like, say, Project MSX, or, if you want to get really old-school, Batman Doom, have not. I've seen it here, and at other gaming forums- this isn't being advertised so much as a gameplay mod, but something that "makes Doom Doomier", implying that it's true to Doom's gameplay, which is only true superficially. Part of my problem with the complaints about Brutal Doom is that they often seem to be a case of someone not liking a thing that lots of people like and feeling like they know better. It's not the mod they have a problem with, because they can just not use it. It's the community that gets turned into the "problem" and that's kind of weird.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:47
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If you don't see what's slightly annoying about all these new age Doom Hipsters who didn't beat KDITD, let alone Doom in its entirety probably anytime before 2000 (if at all), coming along with their gore mod and hailing it as "Doomier" than the game you tore out of the wrapping paper on Christmas Eve 1993, I don't know what to tell you.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:48
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So you're accusing other people of being hipsters because you played it before it was cool? 
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Sep 10, 2013 03:52
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My mom once banned me from playing Doom forever in 1995. That's how hardcore Doom I am.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:52
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Fag Boy Jim posted:My mom once banned me from playing Doom forever in 1995. That's how hardcore Doom I am. And yet here you are posting about it. Way to be disobediant, young man. 
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Sep 10, 2013 03:54
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Fallom posted:Part of my problem with the complaints about Brutal Doom is that they often seem to be a case of someone not liking a thing that lots of people like and feeling like they know better. It's not the mod they have a problem with, because they can just not use it. It's the community that gets turned into the "problem" and that's kind of weird. Well, I mean, if they enjoy it, I really can't dispute that. If they legitimately think it's more fun, once again, who the hell am I to argue with their personal taste? If they start going around saying stuff that's just flat-out wrong, though, like "The Chaingun was completely obsoleted by the Plasma Rifle in Vanilla Doom", or, you know, the ever-popular "Makes Doom Doomier" quote that, in my opinion, completely misconstrues everything great about Doom in favor of a dumbed down, superficial treatment, then that's different. It's not about a battle of personal taste at that point. Plus, there's the whole thing where Commander Keen is replaced with a picture of Justin Bieber wearing a shirt that reads, and I quote, "Baby I'm GAY!". Or that part when someone posted a pic of SgtMark "liking" a holocaust denial video from his YouTube account. That thing. I really don't like Doom being heavily associated with someone who is apparently an insane, racist, homophobic anti-semite who is decent at zDoom modding.
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Sep 10, 2013 03:58
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Cream_Filling posted:Is it bad that as soon as he started talking about 'shmups' I started ignoring his opinion? I think I'm bigoted against people who like shmups or maybe I just hate the term shmups. You might just be a retard. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 10, 2013 04:01
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I live Doom, breath Doom. A shelf full of Doom strategy guides and books on modding before the BBS lamestream distributed the secrets. Every map, every wad, I've done 100% on UV and laughed it off. I can let my hair down, play a Total Conversion or maybe a bit of the Doom roguelike or that cell phone RPG John Carmack programmed while practicing lucid dreaming, but nothing compares to the rush of Tyson runs and baiting Revenants, or running vanilla Doom I megawads, or playing the Atari Jaguar port on an original system. I am surrounded by these false DooMers, but I am calm. These mod trends, like all things, will pass. There will always be Doom.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:25
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Plus, there's the whole thing where Commander Keen is replaced with a picture of Justin Bieber wearing a shirt that reads, and I quote, "Baby I'm GAY!". Or that part when someone posted a pic of SgtMark "liking" a holocaust denial video from his YouTube account. That thing. I really don't like Doom being heavily associated with someone who is apparently an insane, racist, homophobic anti-semite who is decent at zDoom modding. I like how Dead Island is villainized and the devs were called out as gross manchildren b/c of the whole "Feminist Whore" thing and the bust of the dismembered woman torso. But when Brutal Doom does it, everybody gives it a pass because it's the only way to play Doom, gently caress the haters.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:29
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What the gently caress happened to this thread? Are we seriously doing this stupid nerd slapfight again? Because I so need you all to tell me which is the One True Approved Doom Experience. That discussion is just dripping with pure, distilled fun each and every time it happens. Doom is awesome! Mods are awesome! Most of the games using the engine are awesome! Hexen and Strife could use some improving but are generally pretty okay! You can play it and its derivatives pretty much however the gently caress you like and nobody should be getting up on any high-horses to tell anyone else what it is or isn't okay to like. gently caress it, y'all should just play some Reelism and cool off.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:35
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erotic dad posted:I like how Dead Island is villainized and the devs were called out as gross manchildren b/c of the whole "Feminist Whore" thing and the bust of the dismembered woman torso. Almost as if one of these things is considerably higher profile than the other.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:37
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:Yes, because a guy who can write DECORATE code in ZDoom and edit existing sprites is totally equipped to develop his own original property from the ground up. There's a great yawning chasm between "making a mod" and "developing a game," especially when it comes to something that is as relatively simplistic as Doom is. As for supporting old megawads, why is it imperative that the guy does this at all? The whole point of Brutal Doom is that it is a gameplay mod. It modifies the gameplay. As such, it's pretty much a guarantee that it is going to play differently from the default ruleset, and nobody should expect otherwise. Is it just Brutal Doom that bothers you so much, or do things like Project MSX and Samsara also rub you the wrong way? BrDoom has become wildly popular enough that I have no doubt that a Kickstarter or something would find success. ROTT and the new Shadow Warrior are proof positive that people are dying for something that scratches that itch, and I'm not sure either have or are going to. You say nobody should expect otherwise, but look in this thread or on the ZDoom forums and there's no shortage of people assuming that when something like AV doesn't gel well with BrDoom that the fault lies in the map. I don't get why this has to be about me, but if you're so desperate for my opinion... Reelism, Samsara, MSX, Cyberrunner etc. All great projects with a lot of love poured into them. And nobody's going to confuse them for Doom++ in the same way that people do for BrDoom. I wish nothing but the best for them.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:48
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Tiger Schwert posted:but look in this thread or on the ZDoom forums and there's no shortage of people assuming that when something like AV doesn't gel well with BrDoom that the fault lies in the map. The only problem there is with the people stupid enough to think that everything will work perfectly if they stack mods, because that poo poo doesn't work anywhere else for any game, and there's probably nothing that's going to stop them from being dumb either. Let them be dumb.
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Sep 10, 2013 04:50
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I think I made a post in this thread a long time ago about how Brutal Doom made a specific AV map with a Cyberdemon really hard. In case anybody took that as evidence of Doom noobs complaining about map balance when using gameplay mods, I went into that experience fully expecting that there would be some imbalanced moments; I was only lamenting that that particular segment sucked and it was all Brutal Doom's fault. I don't think anybody plays gameplay mods without expecting that it will imbalance some wads that were created with vanilla Doom in mind. On a similar note, Back to Saturn X is really fun and seems like a natural match with Project MSX (sorry, esselfortium). Really, somebody should make a version of Brutal Doom that keeps all the new animations while retaining the balance of vanilla Doom so that everyone can enjoy the fresh lick of paint. The improvements of a modern engine and additional frames of animation in firing and reloading sequences really makes a difference in updating the kinesthetics of the game.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:14
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tooooooo bad posted:Almost as if one of these things is considerably higher profile than the other. Also, Brutal Doom is free and does not require you to give the rear end in a top hat material support in order to play it. I play Brutal Doom, but I found all of SGTMark's racist stuff disgusting and actually tried to bring this up on the ROTT2013 facebook page when they announced that they hired him as a playtester, because holy poo poo he should not be paid by anybody.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:21
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What a lot of insanely bad posts, congrats all.bleedbackwards posted:Really, somebody should make a version of Brutal Doom that keeps all the new animations while retaining the balance of vanilla Doom so that everyone can enjoy the fresh lick of paint. The improvements of a modern engine and additional frames of animation in firing and reloading sequences really makes a difference in updating the kinesthetics of the game. http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/62526-doom-expanded-final-release/ This isn't "a version of Brutal Doom" but for me it scratches the itch you're talking about. Uses updated OG sprites, more frames of animation, more blood effects and stuff. Some more monster sounds. It's good. On another topic, Steam gave me a 10% off coupon for Shadow Warrior that expires the day the game comes out. Shadow Warrior is 15% off until it comes out. Coupons don't stack. So, thanks? Does anybody live in some kind of Bizarro dimension where this coupon would be useful to them?
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Sep 10, 2013 05:22
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ExMortis posted:On another topic, Steam gave me a 10% off coupon for Shadow Warrior that expires the day the game comes out. Shadow Warrior is 15% off until it comes out. Coupons don't stack. So, thanks? Does anybody live in some kind of Bizarro dimension where this coupon would be useful to them? The coupon should stack with the preorder discount. At least, it did for me when I bought it and I just checked with my second coupon and I can still buy a gift copy at 15% off and then 10% off from that total on either edition.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:36
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ExMortis posted:On another topic, Steam gave me a 10% off coupon for Shadow Warrior that expires the day the game comes out. Shadow Warrior is 15% off until it comes out. Coupons don't stack. So, thanks? Does anybody live in some kind of Bizarro dimension where this coupon would be useful to them? Do they not? I got one too. Super pissed because I can't afford it despite wanting it and even if I used the coupon it wouldn't drop below the price I'd be willing to pay at the moment (all my Steam Cash). Edit: Ok, still too rich for me, sadly. catlord fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 05:40
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The coupon does stack with the current preorder price. It makes it $30.59.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:42
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Mill Village posted:The coupon does stack with the current preorder price. It makes it $30.59. Oh. I read only "gold coupons" stack with deals, I didn't try to buy it or anything. Even though it looks like it might be solid I'm not gonna be buying it before launch, if Steam didn't send this thing out to literally everyone and someone wants mine hit me up. Unless you're one of those people. Steam ID is exmortis.
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Sep 10, 2013 05:45
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quote:It also bothers me that around 90% of all Doom chat in this thread is about Brutal Doom, but I guess that's a matter of taste.
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Sep 10, 2013 08:06
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i don't think anyone's blamed a wad yet for not playing perfectly with brutal doom. i like brutal doom partially because it is kind of a retarded mish-mash of weird stuff, like the hilariously out of place iron sights and combat rolls. it doesnt surprise me that the guy who makes it would be some crazed bigot, because who else is really gonna take the time to put in a feature where you kick the teeth out of wounded enemies then curb stomp them? (a feature which still makes me more than a little uncomfortable) but it's still a fun, dynamic change of pace compared to regular doom, which at this point i have played to death in vanilla form. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 10, 2013 09:22
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I thought it turned out that SGT what ever wasn't American and didn't know that what he was saying was wrong and offensive? Or am I getting this wrong?
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Sep 10, 2013 09:29
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SALT CURES HAM posted:...but I found all of SGTMark's racist stuff disgusting and actually tried to bring this up on the ROTT2013 facebook page when they announced that they hired him as a playtester, because holy poo poo he should not be paid by anybody. Anyway, the debate over Sarge has been and gone before, so instead let's discuss Samsara: it's getting an Unreal class and a fend-off-killer-chickens mode! 
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Sep 10, 2013 09:55
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The Kins posted:it's getting an Unreal class Aww gently caress yes. Gonna be interesting to see how that translates to Doom, but I'm looking forward to it.
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Sep 10, 2013 09:59
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Roobanguy posted:I thought it turned out that SGT what ever wasn't American and didn't know that what he was saying was wrong and offensive? Or am I getting this wrong? Huh, he's from brazil. given a documentary i saw recently the whole thing makes a lot more sense. I still need to try out samsara though, it sounds pretty crazy.
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Sep 10, 2013 10:17
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FirstPersonShitter posted:I still need to try out samsara though, it sounds pretty crazy. Its the best, redoing plutonia with two friends, one duke and one doom guy, while you're corvus sure is something special. 
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Sep 10, 2013 11:27
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Tiger Schwert posted:BrDoom has become wildly popular enough that I have no doubt that a Kickstarter or something would find success. Man, the dude's okay at warping around graphics and sound that other people made, and his mapping work is "looks good, plays okay at best" territory. Not really sure throwing money at the (racist) guy is gonna make an original IP pop up. Shadowmorn posted:Its the best, redoing plutonia with two friends, one duke and one doom guy, while you're corvus sure is something special. It's pretty amazing to be a pair of Duke Nukems tearing rear end through Chex Quest.
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Sep 10, 2013 13:26
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brainspawn posted:You might just be a retard. Please don't use the word retard as an insult. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 10, 2013 18:26
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I wasn't lying about the chickens, by the way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevppzO7IZ0
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Sep 10, 2013 18:31
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bleedbackwards posted:I think I made a post in this thread a long time ago about how Brutal Doom made a specific AV map with a Cyberdemon really hard. In case anybody took that as evidence of Doom noobs complaining about map balance when using gameplay mods, I went into that experience fully expecting that there would be some imbalanced moments; I was only lamenting that that particular segment sucked and it was all Brutal Doom's fault. I don't think anybody plays gameplay mods without expecting that it will imbalance some wads that were created with vanilla Doom in mind. On a similar note, Back to Saturn X is really fun and seems like a natural match with Project MSX (sorry, esselfortium). That was the idea behind Brutal Doom lite and apparently the guy is also working on 'ketchup' a generic gore mod. http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2277 The Kins posted:I wasn't lying about the chickens, by the way. So when is this coming out? OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 10, 2013 |
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Sep 10, 2013 18:35
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Out of curiosity, has anyone played Back to Saturn X with vanilla DooM? From what I've played so far it seems like it would work, but that level with swarms of Spider Masterminds would definitely be a chore.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:40
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i just downloaded samsara and oh my god i'm playing as chex man in hexen and i can't stop loving laughing. grimdark 90s demons all vanishing as i zap them with my remote control.
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Sep 10, 2013 19:26
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