|
Spider-man: Reign came so close to being good, but it's just too drat ridiculous for its own good. Even looking beyond the obvious silliness like Spider-man being so old that he should be wearing diapers and the spider-jizz, it features him remorselessly killing a bunch of his rogues' gallery in the end, and also features cops threatening to rape an 8-year old girl just so we know that they're the bad guys.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:35 |
|
|
This thread made me dig out "Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe." The art isn't great but it's mean-spirited fun and has three great moments. The first is where Punisher sets up a trap for Spider-Man & Venom while they're fighting in the sewers & kills them both. The second is when he fights Doom, pulls out a last-second win and decides to get Doom out of his armor by hitting it repeatedly with a hammer and chisel. The third is where he takes out almost the entire X-Men cast (heroes and villains) in one shot, with a nuclear bomb. This was written by Garth Ennis, which is not surprising -- but I'm pretty sure it was written before his acclaimed run as the Punisher's writer. The superheroes are kinda dumb assholes, but that's typical for Ennis and also it kinda makes sense in the story's context. To a guy like Frank Castle, how else would superheroes look, ya know?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2013 00:03
|
|
|
Jesus when people say elseworlds like to end close to the status quo they aren't kidding! The Last Stand Of Krypton is a sequel to Last Son Of Earth, where Not-Kal-El leaves a restored Earth to check on Krypton, followed by Lex and Lois. Jor-El and Lara and some followers of their's are making their little corner of Krypton look very pre-crises. Council Of Sceptics deems this evil and sends Zod after the commune. To make a long story short Lex after giving him and Kal superpowers using a triple cherry flavoured laser (yes) fucks up Kal's anti blowing up measure. Jor-El has a rocket for some reason and sends Lois and Lara on their way, Lara being pregnant with Jor-El's kid. Funnily enough Bryne when he was working out the new Superman origin he wanted to have Jor-El send a pregnant Lara to Earth, where she would give birth to Kal-El while dying of kryptonite poisoning.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2013 09:12
|
|
|
picosecond posted:This thread made me dig out "Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe." The art isn't great but it's mean-spirited fun and has three great moments. The first is where Punisher sets up a trap for Spider-Man & Venom while they're fighting in the sewers & kills them both. The second is when he fights Doom, pulls out a last-second win and decides to get Doom out of his armor by hitting it repeatedly with a hammer and chisel. The third is where he takes out almost the entire X-Men cast (heroes and villains) in one shot, with a nuclear bomb. Off panel he breaks Reed Richards' neck and throws him in a dumpster. This was the same year as Skrull Kill Krew and Warren Ellis' Ruins (which has at least one great joke in it, a Daily Bugle headline showing a dead Galactus with the headline "GOD FOUND DEAD IN SPACE") - what the hell was going on at Marvel in 1995? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Sep 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2013 19:28
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Off panel he breaks Reed Richards' neck and throws him in a dumpster. How in the gently caress? I mean, I can justify the way he kills off everyone else (that I've heard). But breaking Mr. Fantastic's neck seems like the least efficient way of killing the guy. It's like trying to drown Namor or burn Human Torch alive. The only way I could maybe see how it was done is if he somehow froze Reed solid and then literally snapped his neck, but that's really more like decapitation at that point, like Demolition Man. Otherwise, I'm just not buying it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2013 22:07
|
|
|
Because Ennis was clearly having fun killing superheroes. He treats it like a joke because that's what it is. He tricks every mutant character into thinking they're having a big crossover on the moon, then nukes them all. Even the title is a reference to a famous meta Marvel comic, Fred Hembeck Destroys The Marvel Universe, itself a joke on an idea Jim Shooter kept trying to ram through when he was EIC.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Fred Hembeck Destroys The Marvel Universe, The actual Best Elseworld/What If comic that ever existed. Hembeck supremacy! The first Elseworld I ever read was Kal, where Kal-El landed in medieval England and by the time all was said and done forged Excalibur out of his ship, while the Jimmy Olsen stand in told of his exploits to a young Merlin It was pretty cool, but the part where Medieval Luthor rapes and kills Lois always felt wrong.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:04
|
|
|
Fantastic Four: The End is an interesting little premise. Basically a lot of people have wondered why Reed hasn't let any of his technology filter into civilian life. In this universe the deaths of Franklin and Valeria the Richards drift apart but in the process turn the Solar System into a futuristic utopia. Any other comics that've had super-scientists actually use their tech for wider society?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:20
|
|
|
HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Off panel he breaks Reed Richards' neck and throws him in a dumpster. This was the same year as Skrull Kill Krew and Warren Ellis' Ruins (which has at least one great joke in it, a Daily Bugle headline showing a dead Galactus with the headline "GOD FOUND DEAD IN SPACE") - what the hell was going on at Marvel in 1995? There is no comic in history that I hate more than Marvel Ruins. None.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:41
|
|
|
Yeah, there may be comics that are worse than Ruins taken in a vacuum, but the association with Marvels just drives it into one of the worst ever written.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:43
|
|
|
What's wrong with Ruins?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:45
|
|
|
Mycroft Holmes posted:What's wrong with Ruins? It's a big gently caress you to superhero comics that is relentlessly bleak and doesn't really have anything to say (other than gently caress you).
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:46
|
|
|
It's not even an interesting gently caress you. Guess what happens to anyone with powers? It's Cancer. Cancer for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:47
|
|
|
It wouldn't surprise me if Ellis looked back on it poorly, the same way Moore doesn't think much of The Killing Joke. Killing Joke is a much better comic, but still.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:It wouldn't surprise me if Ellis looked back on it poorly, the same way Moore doesn't think much of The Killing Joke. Killing Joke is a much better comic, but still. I doubt that. Have you read Supergod? And yeah Fred Hembeck Destroys The Marvel Universe owns.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 03:56
|
|
|
Mind Loving Owl posted:So reading Last Son Of Earth. It's like a museum piece for Bryne's vision of Krypton. Got to give it credit for remembering Krypton would not be very hospitable to a human body. Plus character development for Bryne's Lara, always nice. My absolute favorite. DC had two whole years of Elseworlds Annuals, first with a straight up EW year and then again with Legends of the Dead Earth. Lots of goofy stories in there but some nice surprises here and there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:It's not even an interesting gently caress you. Guess what happens to anyone with powers? Either cancer or they're jerks. There is literally a scene where Nick Fury shoots a prostitute (Jean Grey), talks about how Captain America introduced him to cannibalism and then shoots himself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:15
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:It's not even an interesting gently caress you. Guess what happens to anyone with powers? Ruins is a deeply repetitive book. As you said, everyone with powers gets cancer. Which yeah would work once or twice in a dark twisted version of the Marvel universe (which isn't a bad premise for a blackly comedic one shot, not sure why the idea needed two issues) but it seems like Ellis just ran out of ideas after the Hulk turned into a pile of tumours, and gave Rick Jones cancer. And for some reason the Kree have cancer. Because when you create a concentration camp the first horror you can think of is cancer. Rhyno posted:My absolute favorite. I've read one of the annuals. Basically Jor-El convinces the elders of Krypton to let him take one hundred thousand Kryptonians to Earth, where they form sort of a Vichy government. I think this was before magic radiation was invented to keep Kryptonians from leaving without dying. And Legends Of The Dead Earth sounds fascinating, especially that one about the team who each have one of Superman's powers but not the others.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:17
|
|
|
Mind Loving Owl posted:Fantastic Four: The End is an interesting little premise. Basically a lot of people have wondered why Reed hasn't let any of his technology filter into civilian life. In this universe the deaths of Franklin and Valeria the Richards drift apart but in the process turn the Solar System into a futuristic utopia. Any other comics that've had super-scientists actually use their tech for wider society? The JLA/Planetary Elseworlds has Elijah and crew spreading tech all over the world in order to control it. Its an interesting comic since it has Elijah and the Planetary organization take the place of the Four in the DC universe. Also because it has an appearance of the time travel device that Ellis doesn't use until 7 years later when he actually finishes the series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:18
|
|
|
The finale of Ruins is Phil Sheldon, who we've been following around because if you're going to make a shitcan version of Marvels go whole goddamn hog, dying before he can publish the notes he's been collecting of all the cancer victims and dicks of the worst Marvel Universe. He dies of viral cancer he got while working with Peter Parker at the Bugle. You can't even make this poo poo up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:25
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:The finale of Ruins is Phil Sheldon, who we've been following around because if you're going to make a shitcan version of Marvels go whole goddamn hog, dying before he can publish the notes he's been collecting of all the cancer victims and dicks of the worst Marvel Universe. It's like as good a comic as Marvels was, there had to be a miniseries as lovely as that one was wonderful. To balance things out. Also seems like Ruins actually had some interesting ideas (Professor X as an evil president who cripples mutants for their own good, the Avengers as a violent secessionist group) but chose to focus on cancer. I bet if Warren Ellis saw someone hit by a truck he'd scream "That man got hit and run cancer!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:31
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:My absolute favorite. My mom bought a big box of random Elseworlds Annuals for me which just happened to be some of the first comics I ever read, so they'll always have a soft spot in my nerdy heart. Super-Tarzan, Leatherwing the Bat-Privateer, the team of people with Superman's powers that Mind Loving Owl mentioned and the Shade-focused Starman issue stand out in my memory as pretty solid entries.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:31
|
|
|
One of my favorite weird Elseworlds is one from some JLA Annual where Captain Atom flies into the future and finds himself in Warworld, which is ruled by an evil, completely cybernetic Booster Gold and Lord Havok (Max Lord). Booster has cloned old members of the JLI to befriend him, but Lord keeps killing Guy Gardner. Clone Ted Kord has been able to defect to the rebellion and gets Captain Atom to help them out. Only Captain Atom isn't sure if he's really himself or just another one of Booster's clones.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:32
|
|
|
At least Ruins didn't touch Power Pack, they were awesome, probably give them all childhood leukaemia and have the boys turn out to be bronies of the worst variety.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
Mind Loving Owl posted:It's like as good a comic as Marvels was, there had to be a miniseries as lovely as that one was wonderful. To balance things out. Also seems like Ruins actually had some interesting ideas (Professor X as an evil president who cripples mutants for their own good, the Avengers as a violent secessionist group) but chose to focus on cancer. The best part is that President X was from an earlier What If. "What If Charles Xavier Became The Juggernaut", and the answer is Charles would be a huge dick and get shot into space.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:37
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:The best part is that President X was from an earlier What If. "What If Charles Xavier Became The Juggernaut", and the answer is Charles would be a huge dick and get shot into space. I think that was one of those What Ifs where they threw in an unrelated twist to make the scenario branch even harder away from the mainstream universe, so it wasn't just "what if Xavier became the Juggernaut?" but really "what if Xavier became the Juggernaut, and then the entire mountain collapsed on him so it took him like a year to dig himself out and he went insane in the process?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:50
|
|
|
Well, the same thing happened to Cain Marko Juggernaut, so it's not really a second twist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
Well yeah but Cain was always an rear end in a top hat, the way they wrote it was basically "Charles went nuts because otherwise he'd just be Invincible Walking Professor X".
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:53
|
|
|
Sometimes it got really hard to phrase What If premises as questions. "What If Spider-Man turned into a monster instead of a super-person, and married Gwen Stacy and then she died after having a child with Peter's problem." One of the few non Earth X comics to explicitly link mutants and non mutant super humans actually.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 04:55
|
|
|
Mind Loving Owl posted:Fantastic Four: The End is an interesting little premise. Basically a lot of people have wondered why Reed hasn't let any of his technology filter into civilian life. In this universe the deaths of Franklin and Valeria the Richards drift apart but in the process turn the Solar System into a futuristic utopia. Any other comics that've had super-scientists actually use their tech for wider society? Well, one of the earlier "What If?"s had Reed and co. just skim suborbital flight in the ship, only to crashland sans powers of any kind. They vow to explore and assist the world any way they can. Basically the FF become Marvel's Challengers of the Unknown. To add to the "Hey a nice ending for once." column there's a favourite of mine: What If the symbiote bonded with Frank Castle rather than Eddie Brock? No Venom, no Carnage, and Frank gets to reign in the symbiote's worse characteristics.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 05:49
|
|
|
Gavok posted:There is no comic in history that I hate more than Marvel Ruins. None. The art is phenomenal, but I don't think Ellis' juvenile cage rattling is that much to get worked up over.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 05:57
|
|
|
I've always enjoyed Ruins because of the art, but come on the story was really just so dark it became almost a parody of grim and dark. Although come on that Magneto bit was pretty great.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:07
|
|
|
The thing that gets me is that Ruins is basically the same kind of crushingly bleak and unfun world that Ellis mocks near the end of Nextwave with the vignettes of the characters' greatest fears.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:22
|
|
|
Yeah but I mean I really think Warren was purposefully doing that , I really do think Ruins was written as a joke and a black comedy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:29
|
|
|
Ellis was being called "The new Gaiman" by Wizard around then so he got away with a lot of lovely writing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:31
|
|
|
Hollis posted:Yeah but I mean I really think Warren was purposefully doing that , I really do think Ruins was written as a joke and a black comedy. Then it's repetitive and not very funny. You know Miracelman actually had a miniseries about the title character reading what ifs and elseworlds about himself. Like What If Kid Miracleman was misunderstood y'all, or this one really sad one. Basically it's a photo album created by some old enemies of his about him maintaining a normal life with his wife and kid. And it always ends badly. Can't help but think it's a commentary of the often pessimistic nature of What If style stories.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:32
|
|
|
Hollis posted:Yeah but I mean I really think Warren was purposefully doing that , I really do think Ruins was written as a joke and a black comedy. To this day, if someone bitches at Ellis about RUINS, he will insist it's a comedy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 06:44
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:Well yeah but Cain was always an rear end in a top hat, the way they wrote it was basically "Charles went nuts because otherwise he'd just be Invincible Walking Professor X". They explained that. When Cain was stuck in the mountain, all he could do was try to burrow his way out. Xavier at least had the ability to reach out with his mind and see what was going on. What was going on was that Magneto was loving up human/mutant relations to a ridiculous level and any hope Xavier had of creating a world where humans and mutants got along was getting more and more unlikely by the day.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 07:20
|
|
Gavok posted:They explained that. When Cain was stuck in the mountain, all he could do was try to burrow his way out. Xavier at least had the ability to reach out with his mind and see what was going on. What was going on was that Magneto was loving up human/mutant relations to a ridiculous level and any hope Xavier had of creating a world where humans and mutants got along was getting more and more unlikely by the day. Why didn't he reach out and tell someone to dig him out?
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 07:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 18:35 |
|
|
Wanderer posted:To this day, if someone bitches at Ellis about RUINS, he will insist it's a comedy. Is he lying? Everything in it is basically a dead baby joke.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2013 13:06
|
|