TheKingofSprings posted:No lie, I would pay so much money for an alternate ending game for 3 where Copy X didn't get pasted and instead helped you fight Omega somehow in the final battles. I'd pay for an alternate ending where X's generals don't die on the way to their home planet.
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Sep 8, 2013 08:30
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And they become playable in MMZ4.
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Sep 8, 2013 08:34
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Lurdiak posted:I'd pay for an alternate ending where X's generals don't die on the way to their home planet. What the hell was up with that, anyway? I thought people were joking when they said that Omega's wimpy rear end explosion killed them all. But lo and behold, they're nowhere to be seen in Zero 4. It's just such a loving weird way to remove them from the story.
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Sep 8, 2013 08:51
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AHungryRobot posted:Even compared to the X games the Zero games still had some absolutely retarded plot points. Parts of Weil's backstory are just awful. You do know the 8 Gentle Judges (Aka the bosses from Z3) the heads of Neo Arcadia's law system were Weils Creations. Because he created them they went easy on him and just banished him and Omega.
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Sep 8, 2013 19:06
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MonsterEnvy posted:You do know the 8 Gentle Judges (Aka the bosses from Z3) the heads of Neo Arcadia's law system were Weils Creations. Because he created them they went easy on him and just banished him and Omega. Even taking that into account, that's still a pretty dumb plot point. They could have just imprisoned him for eternity. That way they could keep an eye on him and make sure he's not trying anything suspicious. There's other ways to go easy on him besides telling him to gently caress off for 100 years. The fact that Weil's closest creations are the legal leaders of the last major nation on Earth is pretty silly as well. That's a pretty big conflict of interest there. AHungryRobot fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 19:16
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AHungryRobot posted:Even taking that into account, that's still a pretty dumb plot point. They could have just imprisoned him for eternity. That way they could keep an eye on him and make sure he's not trying anything suspicious. Well Weil would have been stuck in the wasteland for years to come if The Dark Elf had not been freed which caused Omega to crash the ship he was in.
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Sep 8, 2013 19:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well Weil would have been stuck in the wasteland for years to come if The Dark Elf had not been freed which caused Omega to crash the ship he was in. Omega's landing was pretty convenient but Weil still managed to pull some poo poo without his help. He brainwashed Copy X and the judges all by his lonesome. He just seems like the kind of guy with regards to whom you wouldn't want to take even the tiniest of risks. poo poo, Elpizo was able to get ahold of the dark elf, and that guy wasn't even immortal like Weil. AHungryRobot fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 19:57
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AHungryRobot posted:Omega's landing was pretty convenient but Weil still managed to pull some poo poo without his help. He brainwashed Copy X and the judges all by his lonesome. He rebuilt Copy X using the Resources in Omega's ship and used him and Omega to get back into Neo Arcadia. Once he was back in Neo Arcadia he brainwashed the Judges under the false pretense of upgrading them and they foolishly trusted their creator. The brain washing turned them into psychopaths Mantisk for example was peaceful before despite being Neo Arcadia's executioner saying stuff like "Surely the fact that my Sickles are dull means this is a time of peacee." and "If I learned that these Blades took the life of an innocent I would not be able to bear with the guilt". Having Control of the Judges and Copy X allowed him to take over Neo Arcadia
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Sep 8, 2013 20:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:He rebuilt Copy X using the Resources in Omega's ship and used him and Omega to get back into Neo Arcadia. Once he was back in Neo Arcadia he brainwashed the Judges under the false pretense of upgrading them and they foolishly trusted their creator. The brain washing turned them into psychopaths Mantisk for example was peaceful before despite being Neo Arcadia's executioner saying stuff like "Surely the fact that my Sickles are dull means this is a time of peacee." and "If I learned that these Blades took the life of an innocent I would not be able to bear with the guilt". Having Control of the Judges and Copy X allowed him to take over Neo Arcadia Where does it even say that he specifically used Omega to get back in? I don't remember the game being that explicit about the details.
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Sep 8, 2013 20:15
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AHungryRobot posted:Where does it even say that he specifically used Omega to get back in? I don't remember the game being that explicit about the details. That part was a mistake. It was the Rebuilt Copy X he used. But it was Omega's ship that gave him the resources.
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Sep 8, 2013 20:42
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MonsterEnvy posted:That part was a mistake. It was the Rebuilt Copy X he used. But it was Omega's ship that gave him the resources. Alright. The fact that he was exiled was a bit silly but not really that bad. It's not as bad as I was making it out to be all things considered. My major two hangups are these: -They made a guy that almost wiped out humanity durable enough to shrug off satellite lasers and atmospheric reentry. You can't even explain that away with "they wanted to torture him forever". Something as simple as immunity to disease and conventional weapons would have sufficed. You don't go full moron and make him immune to giant death beams. Unless they were planning on torturing him with tactical nukes or something. -Eight of his buddies were made heads of state. How the hell does that work?
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Sep 8, 2013 20:45
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AHungryRobot posted:-Eight of his buddies were made heads of state. How the hell does that work? Well that was before he started the massive war.
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Sep 8, 2013 21:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well that was before he started the massive war. They may have existed before the war, but Neo Arcadia didn't exist until after the Elf War. So their appointment as the judges had to have occured after that too. AHungryRobot fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 21:03
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And was actually the fact that Weil rebuilt Copy X what tied the guardians' hands, well that and the fact that Omega wiped the floor with them on the introductory level. Copy X was the thing that enabled Weil to pull all of the poo poo that caused Zero 3. I bet that the original Copy X wouldn't let anything of that happened but well, Zero killed him.  Is actually kind of weird to go from Zero 3 to Zero 4 since Zero 3 ended on a really high note compared to the grim on Zero 4 beginning i suppose that Z3 it was planned to be the series ending AHungryRobot posted:-They made a guy that almost wiped out humanity durable enough to shrug off satellite lasers and atmospheric reentry. You can't even explain that away with "they wanted to torture him forever". Something as simple as immunity to disease and conventional weapons would have sufficed. You don't go full moron and make him immune to giant death beams. Unless they were planning on torturing him with tactical nukes or something. I never understood Weil's logic on the final battle, he tries to drop a logic bomb on Zero claiming to be 100% human but at that point he has survived a nuke and is fused with the core of a space station. He hasn't been a human in a long, long time.
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Sep 8, 2013 21:20
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And was actually the fact that Weil rebuilt Copy X what tied the guardians' hands, well that and the fact that Omega wiped the floor with them on the introductory level. Yeah Zero 4 does a lot of that "humans are special" stuff. Zero has some lines with Craft about how only human can change the world or somesuch, but he never really elaborates on why he thinks that. poo poo, X founded Neo Arcadia and helped win the Elf Wars. If that isn't considered "world-changing" I don't know what is.
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Sep 8, 2013 21:31
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AHungryRobot posted:Yeah Zero 4 does a lot of that "humans are special" stuff. Zero has some lines with Craft about how only human can change the world or somesuch, but he never really elaborates on why he thinks that. Is actually baffling on the Zero series when the only human that We've met is Ciel. She could be a genius scientist but is a crappy leader. I think that the series plot it would been a lot better keeping X as the big bad and turning the resistance into a human resistance. Probably it would be a little cliched but it would made more sens for the time that zero 4 comes around. Besides human and reploids look the same in that artstyle anyway
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Sep 8, 2013 21:54
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AHungryRobot posted:Alright. The fact that he was exiled was a bit silly but not really that bad. It's not as bad as I was making it out to be all things considered. Maybe they WERE intending to torture him with nukes. It really feels like the Weil-eternal torture plot point was tacked on as an afterthought. Especially since it has so little detail. It could have gone down completely different than we assume. For example: he was tossed out of the city with just his human body and a gas mask attached to his face like Bane. Then over the next 100 year he scavenged machinery and parts from the ruins to make his robot body.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:22
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Mister Roboto posted:Maybe they WERE intending to torture him with nukes. I thought the games made it pretty clear that the humans survivors gave him his cyber suit. That's why he harbors all that resentment. The intention behind the transformation was pretty vague though, yeah. I also thought the point of him being in the wastes was that there were no resources to build anything? I mean, if he couldn't build some robot lackeys to help him out or some kind of beacon to crash Omega's ship, I don't see how he could make a baller rear end suit that makes him immune to nukes and poo poo. AHungryRobot fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Sep 8, 2013 |
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Sep 8, 2013 22:31
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I still think Weil's one of gaming's more imposing villains, right up there with Ganondorf. You can kind of see how he ended up becoming such an rear end in a top hat, but he never gives you the chance to sympathize.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:49
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Hobo Siege posted:I still think Weil's one of gaming's more imposing villains, right up there with Ganondorf. You can kind of see how he ended up becoming such an rear end in a top hat, but he never gives you the chance to sympathize. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with Weil's intentions or personality. It's just that parts of his backstory just boggle the mind.
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Sep 8, 2013 22:51
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I always thought Weil's escape from orbit was instigated either by the death of the original X, or the release of the Mother Elf.
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Sep 9, 2013 03:35
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Schwarzwald posted:I always thought Weil's escape from orbit was instigated either by the death of the original X, or the release of the Mother Elf. The Later. Also Weil was given Regenerative armor so he could not kill himself. He was not actually immune to the nuke he just regenerated from it. I doubt they intended for it to be that strong.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Later. I don't know how they could not "intend" for it to be as strong as it was. They built it, so they should have had a good idea of what it was capable of. I mean, if you wanna make sure a guy doesn't die from the wasteland, you don't need to give him much. Immunity to disease/aging and maybe some limited weapon resistance. The fact that his suit goes above and beyond that into "can survive a nuke" territory shows that it probably wasn't because of small oversight on the part of the guys that made the suit.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:28
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I always kinda wished to have a MMZ game where you fought Omega (in the white body you first face him with) without the GBA sprite limitations. It was lame how he was this cool, big samurai robot with an enormous sword and detachable arms and he used them in the lamest patterns. It'd be cool if he at least gave that sword a swing or moved more quickly. I'd also like to see a figure based on that body but I don't know how popular Omega is.
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Sep 9, 2013 04:52
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Agree 100%. The worst things about MMZ were the system limitations(having very little screen space can lead to running into things that were offscreen very shortly ago if you haven't fully memorized the level yet), and Omega, despite having a really cool design, ultimately suffers really badly because of that and is generally piss-easy. I still love MMZ to death because of the super fluid 2D movement and high difficulty, especially on hard mode where everything is very clean and simple with no cyber-elf/leveling nonsense. They're basically my personal standard for how my ideal platformer plays, and also easily my favorite Megaman games as well. I'd love to have more of them, which is a shame, because at the same time I love that they had the balls to kill Zero at the end and finish that series for good. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Sep 9, 2013 |
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Sep 9, 2013 04:58
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I really would have liked Copy X to actually have been X. Would've been far more interesting.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:05
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Mister Roboto posted:I really would have liked Copy X to actually have been X. Im glad they didn't. That would be completely out of character for X, the guy who literally sat out for half a game because he didn't like fighting despite him being in a organization that hunts down and kills certain reploids.
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Sep 9, 2013 05:18
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Yeah even after the Elf Wars X only became a little less merciful. Copy X's methods are pretty far removed even from that version of X that the Zero games talk about. The guy ordered the genocide of all the reploids for pete's sake. Or to put it a different way: X after the Elf Wars: disillusioned soldier Copy X: 
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Sep 9, 2013 05:22
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On another note, I thought it was kind of crazy that it took Capcom so long to develop a rival for Mega Man. I remember the cartoon show used Proto Man in that aspect but it wasn't til Mega Man 7 that he got a real rival
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Sep 9, 2013 07:23
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AHungryRobot posted:Copy X: He even turned Reploids in to 2nd class citizens and put them in concentration camps to be retired. They might as well have named him Robot Hitler.
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Sep 9, 2013 20:18
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 The M#9 kickstarter updated, and we get Mighty No. 1 pics. Eh, as far as lighter based robots are concerned, I still prefer Heat Man.
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Sep 9, 2013 22:30
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I have the utmost respect for Heat Man, but that does not change that Mighty Number 1 is (occasionally) ripped. I two player co-op with Beck and Call has also been introduced as a stretch goal at 2.75 million. Weren't there plans yo do something like this as far back as Mega Man 2?
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Sep 9, 2013 22:42
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Dear god, Inafune isn't even trying to hide what he's doing, is he? He's got a chance to reinvent the art style, to make something completely new and interesting while utilizing familiar gameplay mechanics, and what is he doing with it? He's making generic Robot Masters again. Hell, even the ZX robots were more aesthetically appealing -- bizarre and abstract as they were, they at least showed some imagination. This is just "he is a robot who uses fire." 
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Sep 11, 2013 05:20
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Screaming Idiot posted:Dear god, Inafune isn't even trying to hide what he's doing, is he? He's got a chance to reinvent the art style, to make something completely new and interesting while utilizing familiar gameplay mechanics, and what is he doing with it? He's making generic Robot Masters again. Hell, even the ZX robots were more aesthetically appealing -- bizarre and abstract as they were, they at least showed some imagination. This is just "he is a robot who uses fire." MMZ reinvented the art style, and people just complain about it. Who cares if this just looks like Fire x Heat Man 2.0? What matters is how he looks on-screen, not in concept art, and how he interacts with the game world in which he resides.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:46
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Screaming Idiot posted:Dear god, Inafune isn't even trying to hide what he's doing, is he? He's got a chance to reinvent the art style, to make something completely new and interesting while utilizing familiar gameplay mechanics, and what is he doing with it? He's making generic Robot Masters again. Hell, even the ZX robots were more aesthetically appealing -- bizarre and abstract as they were, they at least showed some imagination. This is just "he is a robot who uses fire." That's what the fans want. You seem to spend most of your time telling everyone how much you don't care about the new stuff...that's probably not very healthy, dude. If you hate it, it's cool, but why keep on making sure everyone knows? It's not going to make other people not want to play, nor is it going to it going to really change development. I dunno man, seems excessive.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:47
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AHungryRobot posted:X after the Elf Wars: disillusioned soldier I dunno, Ghost X struck me as a super ultra pacifist who'd finally become what Dr. Light hoped he would, more of a scientist than a warrior. It wasn't just that his body was out of commission, he just couldn't bear to fight anymore, which is why he put his burden of being the champion of justice on Zero, an act he admits is selfish. It's kind of interesting, neither of them are really comfortable in the role of heroic warrior/savior. X would rather live peacefully, and Zero only knows how to fight and kill and isn't comfortable having people depend on him for anything else.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:50
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Takoluka posted:MMZ reinvented the art style, and people just complain about it. Who cares if this just looks like Fire x Heat Man 2.0? What matters is how he looks on-screen, not in concept art, and how he interacts with the game world in which he resides. To be fair, there are some legitimate criticisms to be made about the art style. The mavericks look really cool, but the humanoid reploids don't even look like robots. If this were ZX with the whole "merging of man and machine" then it'd have some relevance to the plot, but since that's not the case in the Zero games, it just comes off as weird to me. When I first played MMZ it took me several hours before I realized the resistance was composed only of robots and not people with a penchant for goggles. Also, the people of the MMZ/ZX world could use a better selection of footwear. Nearly everyone is drawn wearing those huge clodhoppers.
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Sep 11, 2013 05:55
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Clodhoppers is actually what I called Big Eyes as a kid because of the distinctive sound effect when they land.
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Sep 11, 2013 06:01
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Mister Roboto posted:I dunno man, seems excessive. I don't get the incessant love for it either. I mean, yeah, it's sort of like a Megaman game, but it isn't. The art presented so far is about as generic as you can get, and I'm honestly surprised Capcom hasn't attempted some form of lawsuit. Also, I consider myself a Megaman fan, and I don't want a lookalike game. I want a new Megaman game, and since Capcom isn't going to deliver then I'm going to be content with that. We've had dozens of good Megaman games, so I have no problem watching the series finally die. It's preferable than being whored out for another two decades, and far better than being glutted with half-assed fangames and two-bit copycats. Screaming Idiot fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 06:03
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AHungryRobot posted:To be fair, there are some legitimate criticisms to be made about the art style. The mavericks look really cool, but the humanoid reploids don't even look like robots. If this were ZX with the whole "merging of man and machine" then it'd have some relevance to the plot, but since that's not the case in the Zero games, it just comes off as weird to me. When I first played MMZ it took me several hours before I realized the resistance was composed only of robots and not people with a penchant for goggles. Yeah, I gotta say I love the MMZ artstyle to death but that's definitely a flaw in it. If they made the faces look non human somehow it would go a long way-nonhuman eyes maybe, or jaw seams ala Raiden's first body in MGR(but more exaggerated)?
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Sep 11, 2013 06:05
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