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MassRafTer posted:And Rikidozan. Don't forget BIG DADDY! (please forget Big Daddy)
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Sep 11, 2013 23:15
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Solomonic posted:Whoa now, let's be fair to Sting, there were also aspects lifted directly from The Mask. "Evil clowns, in the rafters!" But yeah, I guess you can at least say that Sting is good at impersonations 
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Sep 11, 2013 23:16
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Watching a lot of the late 1996, Hogan was amazing with his promos once he settled into the Hollywood stuff. His early promos were just Hulk stuff basically but whether him or someone directed him to go heavy into the Hollywood stuff it worked great. He was so overbearing in 1995/96 so his getting to be a heel was great.
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Sep 12, 2013 00:30
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Willninho posted:Watching a lot of the late 1996, Hogan was amazing with his promos once he settled into the Hollywood stuff. His early promos were just Hulk stuff basically but whether him or someone directed him to go heavy into the Hollywood stuff it worked great. He was so overbearing in 1995/96 so his getting to be a heel was great. Have you seen him comparing an nWo assault to the U.S. Gov't burning David Koresh's Waco compound to the ground? Pure insanity, and rambling as gently caress, too.
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Sep 12, 2013 00:34
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LvK posted:Don't forget BIG DADDY! (please forget Big Daddy) If you talk enough about Big Daddy Meltzer will interview someone about british wrestling on the podcast and that's actually cool. But seriously, Sting is one of those guys that if you weren't 8 at the time you look back and see the papered houses and realise that in terms of what the main job of a pro-wrestler is, he wasn't a hall of famer. And for the secondary stuff, he wasn't either. What I'm saying is he's Keith Hernandez.
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Sep 12, 2013 00:35
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LordPants posted:If you talk enough about Big Daddy Meltzer will interview someone about british wrestling on the podcast and that's actually cool. I wasn't 8 at the time and I'm a lifelong WWF/E fan and hated most of WCW during the Monday Night Wars etc, but Sting is loving amazing and should be in the Hall of Fame 
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Sep 12, 2013 00:50
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Solomonic posted:Whoa now, let's be fair to Sting, there were also aspects lifted directly from The Mask. Oh for gently caress's sake. I had no idea it had gotten this bad at one point.
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Sep 12, 2013 01:16
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LvK posted:Don't forget BIG DADDY! (please forget Big Daddy) I promised Hulkamatt as soon as Sting HOF talk started I wouldn't bring up Big Daddy. Shirley Crabtree. Never forget.
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Sep 12, 2013 01:50
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Oh for gently caress's sake. I had no idea it had gotten this bad at one point. I love how that's the official TNA channel and the name of the video still has .mov on it...
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Sep 12, 2013 02:26
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It was interesting that Crow Sting was at his most over when he didn't say a drat thing and didn't wrestle.
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Sep 12, 2013 05:19
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Say Nothing posted:It was interesting that Crow Sting was at his most over when he didn't say a drat thing and didn't wrestle. It was never mentioned again aside from Schiavone clearing it up on Thunder and saying Sting was not leaving the Wolfpac. On a Sting best-of VHS produced earlier, Eric Bischoff said he had an upcoming idea that Sting could shift back and forth between the two personas. The idea being that Sting could hulk up and become the rear end-kicking mime we all loved, but he'd still get to cut promos and scream "WHOOOOOOOOOOOO!" (not to be confused with "Woo!") when he wanted to, since Steve Borden was getting tired of never saying anything.
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Sep 12, 2013 05:59
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Say Nothing posted:It was interesting that Crow Sting was at his most over when he didn't say a drat thing and didn't wrestle. Says a lot about his working and promo abilities, frankly.
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Sep 12, 2013 06:01
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Sting is in the only HOF that matters. The TNA one.
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Sep 12, 2013 06:06
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I think what really hurt Sting was the mishandling of what was meant to be the big nWo payoff. The story was supposed to be the nWo comes in and runs wild over WCW, and Sting is so pissed off at being distrusted by the roster that he turns his back on them and stands by to watch quietly as it happens... but then he slowly starts to become involved, chasing off the nWo, making his presence known, blocking their attempts to get at him at every turn. Finally he gets a title shot against Hogan, beats him and is held up triumphantly by a jubilant WCW roster. They ALMOST got it right, but then Sting is made to look like an idiot a week or so before the match by coming to the ring at Hogan's invitation and getting jumped by the nWo and taking a beating just like everybody else in the roster did. Then they get the bright idea for a lovely warmed up leftover of the Montreal Screwjob for their finish. Then Hogan convinces Evil Nick Patrick to make a regular count instead of a fast count. THEN Sting wins and gets the jubilant WCW roster putting him on their shoulders.... and THEN JJ Dillon shows up the next day and agrees to redo the match, it runs overtime so they air it Thunder instead, there is STILL no definitive winner so Sting is stripped of the belt, which remains vacant till Superbrawl when it is won by.... Sting. What happened to the catharsis!?!  I don't care who you are, mishandling like that is going to make you look like poo poo, and that's what happened to Sting, sadly. I still think he's amazing and he should be in the Hall of Fame though.
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Sep 12, 2013 06:16
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jeffersonlives posted:No, no, Cena's actually drawn over the course of his career and generally has a positive effect on business compared to his peers (which is the entire point with Sting - he really didn't). It's just that I have a really hard time saying Cena is at a Hogan or Austin level because he's never been on top for anything resembling the kind of peak years that they have had, and really only even has one peak program on a really high level (with Rock, obviously). There's certainly a peak vs. longevity argument somewhere in here, but Cena doesn't even have as many major promotion on top years as Hogan in sum yet. Dave actually has a list of the Top 100 draws that he updates every year based on being a top draw and longevity at the top. It has flaws when it comes to the Japanese & Mexican talent (Mexican Wrestling doesn't have complete records Pre-1988, hurting a lot of huge names), but it's pretty good. Cena is actually listed above Austin on the list, but at the same time Dave states that if not for the longevity factor Austin would pretty much be listed as Top 5 all time. Sting isn't on the list. Red posted:
HulkaMatt fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Sep 12, 2013 |
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Sep 12, 2013 08:50
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Red posted:
I think Diesel was the WWF's Sting.
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Sep 12, 2013 10:35
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Cena is more significant to the scope of Pro Wrestling than Sting.
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Sep 12, 2013 10:39
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jeffersonlives posted:Says a lot about his working and promo abilities, frankly. Here are Sting's contemporaries elected to the HOF after 1996 for their work in the US. Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, The Undertaker, Triple H, Eddie Guerrero, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio Jr, John Cena. Take out the huge draws and you're left with Foley, Benoit, Michaels, Angle, Guerrero, Jericho, and Mysterio. Consider how much talent and influence you are balancing out because Sting was "the face of WCW" and the focus of a story where he never spoke or wrestled for a year.
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Sep 12, 2013 11:20
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The fact that Sting based two gimmicks on deceased actors has been noted before. During the Monday Night Wars, back when people made Geocities fan sites, it wasn't uncommon for Sting to be featured on a Crow fan site, as one of The Crow's incarnations. You had the original comic book, Brandon Lee and Sting. You also had Vincent Perez and Marc Dacascos, unfortunately. Even the baseball bat is from The Crow, from the scene in which Eric Draven goes after Mr. Gideon. Then we get Joker Sting based on Heath Ledger. The weirdest thing here is that you can easily make connections between Brandon Lee, Sting and Heath Ledger. Sting made both gimmicks about two to three years after each actor died. Ledger's Joker took a lot of Lee's mannerisms, and then Sting based a lot on Ledger. Then there's the Jim Carrey connection, based on the Mask. It's the circle of entertainment.
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Sep 12, 2013 11:22
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Take out the huge draws and you're left with Foley, Benoit, Michaels, Angle, Guerrero, Jericho, and Mysterio. This is definitely a great argument. If you put Sting into that group there's an odd man out and he's wearing facepaint.
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Sep 12, 2013 11:45
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Rad R. posted:The fact that Sting based two gimmicks on deceased actors has been noted before. During the Monday Night Wars, back when people made Geocities fan sites, it wasn't uncommon for Sting to be featured on a Crow fan site, as one of The Crow's incarnations. You had the original comic book, Brandon Lee and Sting. You also had Vincent Perez and Marc Dacascos, unfortunately. Even the baseball bat is from The Crow, from the scene in which Eric Draven goes after Mr. Gideon. This took more thought than Sting, WCW or TNA put into those gimmicks.
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Sep 12, 2013 12:33
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Take out the huge draws and you're left with Foley, Benoit, Michaels, Angle, Guerrero, Jericho, and Mysterio. Jericho is the weakest of this list. Solid worker, but he never drew big and didn't innovate much like the others did. Did he get in for being a smark-darling?
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Sep 12, 2013 17:43
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EugeneJ posted:Jericho is the weakest of this list. Solid worker, but he never drew big and didn't innovate much like the others did. Jericho got in mostly cause of his last run on top, I think. His reinvention of his character into slow talking, suit wearing main eventer pushed him over the top. At the time it was pretty innovative actually. Obviously he was drawing inspiration from the past, but no one else in pro wrestling was doing anything quite like that.
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Sep 12, 2013 17:48
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triplexpac posted:Jericho got in mostly cause of his last run on top, I think. His reinvention of his character into slow talking, suit wearing main eventer pushed him over the top. Ehhhhhh I don't even think the Shawn-Jericho program was a main event on most shows it featured on. Great matches, but 5 years later they're largely forgotten.
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Sep 12, 2013 17:54
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triplexpac posted:Jericho got in mostly cause of his last run on top, I think. His reinvention of his character into slow talking, suit wearing main eventer pushed him over the top.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:19
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Nick Bockwinkel is definitely my favourite thing about watching AWA. Yes, even better than Bruiser Brody pretending to have brain damage.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:24
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Halloween Jack posted:Nick Bockwinkel is definitely my favourite thing about watching AWA. Yes, even better than Bruiser Brody pretending to have brain damage. Track down his Memphis angle where he loses a non-title match to Jerry Lawler, and claims afterwards the only reason Lawler wins is because he's a great puncher (which is a great way of being a heel while also putting Jerry over), so he proposes Lawler's AWA title match have a stip: For every punch Lawler uses, he'll be charged $500. Actually, gently caress it, here it is, because I am a kind and giving man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL3LJMQmKpA Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmsHSzMIcLU Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoVjxavJS0 Part 3
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Sep 12, 2013 21:12
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EugeneJ posted:Jericho is the weakest of this list. Solid worker, but he never drew big and didn't innovate much like the others did. He was an elite worker for many years, a solid draw on top (the HBK/Jericho feud did very well) and well, all around a Hall of Famer.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:19
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MassRafTer posted:He was an elite worker for many years, a solid draw on top (the HBK/Jericho feud did very well) and well, all around a Hall of Famer. Plus, if I remember right, he was a not-inconsiderable draw in Mexico.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:21
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EugeneJ posted:Jericho is the weakest of this list. Solid worker, but he never drew big and didn't innovate much like the others did. How big was Jericho's run in Mexico? It seems like he did well there during a hot time in the country. So that likely has something to do with it as well. Jericho has about as diverse a resume as you could want in a HOFer. Mexico, Europe, Japan, SMW, ECW, WCW, WWF/E...all during hot periods. Great worker in the ring in a bunch of different styles. A lot of big feuds and memorable moments. And a solid late career big match resume to top it all off.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:26
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Would Jeff Jarrett have any shot at getting into the WON hall of fame?
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Sep 12, 2013 22:42
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Bigass Moth posted:Would Jeff Jarrett have any shot at getting into the WON hall of fame? No.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:46
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Bigass Moth posted:Would Jeff Jarrett have any shot at getting into the WON hall of fame? No e:beaten
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Sep 12, 2013 22:47
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SAVE_US.CHR
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Why not? Ain't he great?
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Sep 12, 2013 22:50
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Bigass Moth posted:Would Jeff Jarrett have any shot at getting into the WON hall of fame? If he borrows Orlando Jordan's time machine and manages to turn TNA into a success, sure.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:52
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MassRafTer posted:If he borrows Orlando Jordan's time machine and manages to turn TNA into a success, sure. Jeff Jarrett has the third most NWA title reigns in history, just behind Harley Race and Ric Flair, started the second most powerful wrestling company in North America and holds the world record for number of Guitars broken in a lifetime.
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Sep 12, 2013 22:59
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Gonzo McFee posted:Jeff Jarrett has the third most NWA title reigns in history, just behind Harley Race and Ric Flair, started the second most powerful wrestling company in North America and holds the world record for number of Guitars broken in a lifetime. And yet that all still means jack poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2013 23:02
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I wish I had a good analogy for calling TNA the second most powerful wrestling company in North America.
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Sep 12, 2013 23:10
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Chris Gaines posted:I wish I had a good analogy for calling TNA the second most powerful wrestling company in North America. The Bellator of wrestling?
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Sep 12, 2013 23:14
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On the topic of "Faces of top US promotions who never worked for WWE"... Would AJ Styles be a HOF candidate based on his work in TNA?
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Sep 12, 2013 23:15
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