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Reverend Dr posted:Which would at least give fist healers something to do other than just mash cauterize/surgical steel. Muzzle on cooldown to keep Rising Vigour fully stacked imo.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:08
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Healing mostly is pretty easy, yeah, at least in terms of keeping up with damage. The challenge comes from a few things, late game: 1. Anticipating and preparing for predictable spike damage -- Hell Eternal 1 is the obvious example. 2. Idiots standing in damage they don't need to be 3. Maintaining your throughput while responding to fight mechanics -- it's harder to pump out the heals while avoiding red circles and trying to stay in range 4. Nightmare dungeons -- some fights just hit really hard, like Ankh 3 5. Tank's complementary stacks -- it's easy to heal a tank who's properly geared and has a good balance of stats, it's much harder to survive, say, Ur-Draug with a tank with no Block.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:15
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Toshimo posted:What do you think the odds of the peraon asking for pre-endgame healing advice is undergeared? Except I healed elites in greens and blues with just caut/ss so undergeared in this case is what...ql0?
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Sep 12, 2013 19:42
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Well the idea of the 1,1,1,1 rotation is to keep all of the rolling hots to trigger empowerment. It does have some gain before empowerment as you clip less HoTs, but it has substantial gain after empowerment (which every fist build does). Before Empowerment its better to focus on the more direct healing based fist skills (well... that's Cauterize/Surgical Steel, but it can also make good use of Empathy and even Hot Iron). 1 - I usually just take the lazy way of fist healing by spamming cauterize even at full resources, until I need a larger spike heal and then use surgical steel. Works fairly well and its braindead simple, which is good if a player isn't terribly familiar with fight mechanics or for more complex fights. For the 1,1,1,1 its about keeping up the HoTs even before spike damage comes in such that as soon as the tank takes damage they are already rolling with full HoTs. 2 - Everybody hates them, but its pretty easy to mop up without changing targets with a fired up/cold blooded or alternate between cauterize and shelter (assuming they weren't 1-shotted which something like 90% of AoE at endgame will do to a DPS). 3 - Definitely easier to do the easier the rotation. It doesn't matter how much extra thoroughput you have if can't perform the rotation to get that extra healing. 4 - Also easier to learn fights with an easier rotation, but stuff like Ankh 3 practically require skill use by the rest of the party (Reap and Sow is great). The 1,1,1,1 rotation is really just a novelty as at the gear levels low enough that the extra healing is useful, the player's performance is most likely going to suffer because of inexperience. At higher levels it can solo heal Ahnk 3 without any other cooldowns (supposedly, I'll believe it when I see it) or solo heal the raid (which requires very high group performance, with very little room for error, for a very minor gain). But if you are at low gear level, have empowerment, and can hit 4 buttons in a row, then its definitely not bad.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:45
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I got the last Raid talisman that I wanted earlier today. Feels good. But now I need 1160 bullion to redo and expand my tank set 
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Sep 13, 2013 11:13
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Cheston posted:I got the last Raid talisman that I wanted earlier today. Feels good. I could do that and have leftovers 
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Sep 13, 2013 13:18
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Cheston posted:I got the last Raid talisman that I wanted earlier today. Feels good. The disappointing thing about the bracer is that it prevents you from having 3k+ attack rating and 7k+ base HP because to do that you need slots for three purple vigours. Switching to hammer as your primary builder will likely make a bigger boost to your DPS though.
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Sep 13, 2013 14:51
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Well, at this point I'm more gearing towards the hypothetical I'm-assuming-that-some-will-exist "tanking dick-tons of damage" Nightmare encounters in 1.8, or Tokyo.
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Sep 13, 2013 17:26
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Speaking of which, any word on the next content update's release date, be it an issue or Tokyo?
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Sep 13, 2013 17:42
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Cheston posted:Well, at this point I'm more gearing towards the hypothetical I'm-assuming-that-some-will-exist "tanking dick-tons of damage" Nightmare encounters in 1.8, or Tokyo. I'm wondering if Thrill of the Chase (2sec reduction of movement abilities per attack from behind) still has the weird interaction with scattershot where every scattershot will trigger the passive. It used to function as such, or it would function as such in weird conjunction with double dash. This is important because Trucker is considered a movement ability. It would be a weird as gently caress tanking build, but if that still works then we should be able to get 60-80% major block coverage (though trucker+Unstobbaple+stonewall+Doubledash+stonewallpassive should give 70% coverage). At this point, might as well take Signet of Order which should give drat near close to 100% coverage of Major Ward (of course CCC), with Stoicism and Defense Turret options. If I wasn't so burned out right now (and pissed that I can't use testlive anymore) I might give it a shot. Though I think most of you have my steam, so feel free to send me a message if you need another for dungeon/raid. But I'm not really worried about a hypothetical "dick-tons" of damage. If they put something in that requires so much into tanking stats, that a full 10.4 completely defensively focused is required, then there is just going to be so much backlash by the community as this would me something like 95% of tanks couldn't possibly perform as needed. guppy posted:Speaking of which, any word on the next content update's release date, be it an issue or Tokyo? Its supposed to be the Augment system + scenarios update. I'm hoping that it will revitalize my interest.
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Sep 13, 2013 18:10
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Reverend Dr posted:But I'm not really worried about a hypothetical "dick-tons" of damage. If they put something in that requires so much into tanking stats, that a full 10.4 completely defensively focused is required, then there is just going to be so much backlash by the community as this would me something like 95% of tanks couldn't possibly perform as needed. I'm really hoping this happens. I really enjoyed being both defense and block specced and taking little to no damage, but the current reality is that there is no reason for a 10.5 tank to be pushing any less that 1200 dps in most 18 encounters. I'm more than happy to play the DPS tank game, but I would love a legit reason to be highly specced in mitigation.
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Sep 13, 2013 18:30
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guppy posted:Speaking of which, any word on the next content update's release date, be it an issue or Tokyo? Sadly the team is being very quiet about when it will be released. In the past they have dropped tons of teasers on us months in advance; like the next aux weapon, the theme of the missions and such. All we know about this next update is that there is no new aux weapon, we get scenarios which sound generically dynamic, some sort of mini zone related to the Counsel of Venice and augments. If we see the patch this month, even on testlive, I will be impressed. Edit: Its possible they are waiting until after this current event is finished to either release the update on live or it will go into the next event which has to do with fighting filth poo poo in agartha (assumption based on resources added to the current build).
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Sep 13, 2013 18:53
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GEMorris posted:I'm really hoping this happens. I really enjoyed being both defense and block specced and taking little to no damage, but the current reality is that there is no reason for a 10.5 tank to be pushing any less that 1200 dps in most 18 encounters. The game's mechanics just don't really give a legitimate reason to be highly specced into mitigation. In part the issue is that the increased mitigation results in much lower actual HP mitigation, especially compared to healer's actual HP heal values. In another part is that virtually all forms of mitigation have coverage gaps (actives, buffs, procs) or have a RNG chance of reducing a hit (defense, evasion, related buffs). Because of that, the total incoming damage needed to make high specced mitigation necessary is going to have previously already killed every tank due to spikyness of damage in this game before they kill due to lack of mitigation. Reverend Dr fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 20:21
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Reverend Dr posted:In part the issue is that the increased mitigation results in much lower actual HP mitigation, especially compared to healer's actual HP heal values. I don't understand what this means. Reverend Dr posted:Because of that, the total incoming damage needed to make high specced mitigation necessary is going to have previously already killed every tank due to spikyness of damage in this game. Hell Fallen 3 is an example of a fight that requires high mitigation without being so spiky as to instantly pop tanks. In that case, it's partially due to gaps in the fight (tyrants moving around) giving defensive cooldowns the time to recharge, but it's also that the Tyrants and Engineers simply don't Penetrate (or critically hit) as often or as hard as, say, Ur-Draug. Giving a boss high base damage with low Penetration, Crit, and/or Hit would create a situation requiring high mitigation without introducing unrecoverable spike damage. If the Lurker's attack did even more damage, but could also be blocked or glance, then it'd be a good example. So would the crowds of adds in Darkness War, if they did more damage. There are a lot of ways this could be introduced.
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Sep 13, 2013 21:37
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Cheston posted:I don't understand what this means. Mitigation from different sources stacks multiplicatively. Such that 25% major ward + 20% block value + 30% debilitate is 56% mitigation, if you add in an extra 20% reduction from defense it becomes 66.4% mitigation. For 10K incoming damage, adding in 20% extra mitigation from defense would only reduce the real HP damage by 1040. I threw some math around before and if I swapped all of my pen to defense, the actual HP mitigation was not all that much more than using a barrier potion on recharge. Compare that to how much healers can actually heal. We just talked about fist healing and how most of us just spam the same few buttons because more healing isn't needed. We'd be talking about getting close to Ahnk 3 dreaming shroud levels of constant base damage before incoming damage would be too much for healing to be unable to mop up and more mitigation needed. Another way of thinking about this. We just talked about fist healing and the consensus was get dungeon drop gear and mash cauterize/surgical steel, leech healers are seeing just how few HR talismans they can have equipped, and both of these across from a DPS style tank. If damage is increased it makes more sence to first make up this difference on the healing end than to go full-on mitigation tanking. quote:Hell Fallen 3 is an example of a fight that requires high mitigation without being so spiky as to instantly pop tanks. In that case, it's partially due to gaps in the fight (tyrants moving around) giving defensive cooldowns the time to recharge, but it's also that the Tyrants and Engineers simply don't Penetrate (or critically hit) as often or as hard as, say, Ur-Draug. Giving a boss high base damage with low Penetration, Crit, and/or Hit would create a situation requiring high mitigation without introducing unrecoverable spike damage. If the Lurker's attack did even more damage, but could also be blocked or glance, then it'd be a good example. So would the crowds of adds in Darkness War, if they did more damage. There are a lot of ways this could be introduced. Its Crits/Pens/Blocks/Glances (and the huge RNG on base damage) that create very inconsistent amounts of damage being taken over time. When the RNG goes against the players, then Tanks HP bars go up and down really fast. That is the root of why spikiness is going to kill players long before mitigation becomes an issue. Adding in more mitigation, when the mitigation options available are only RNG based, doesn't prevent periods of higher damage, it only reduces the chance and/or frequency of it happening. Back to Ahnk 3, think about that level of raw incoming damage, but with the huge variance of RNG like regular damage. Really because of this the best way to deal with an incoming damage increase is actually not mitigation, just higher base HP. Reverend Dr fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 23:01
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Funcom has QA testers responding to posts on testlive now 
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Sep 14, 2013 01:18
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In dungeons what is a shotgun user primarily good for?
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Sep 14, 2013 01:32
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Zasraik posted:In dungeons what is a shotgun user primarily good for? Healing.
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Sep 14, 2013 01:36
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Toshimo posted:Healing.  Correct answer: Casting Breaching Shot and Cleanup. Also you seriously don't need to min-max fist/blood in 18s, you can bring trash gear and heal tanks with trash gear because Cold Blooded makes AOE damage not matter at all and Exquisite Corpse has obscene throughput for the cast time and resource cost. The healing requirement for 18s is easily reachable, the place where you lose is to geared-out leech specs that can do damage while healing, which helps tremendously on damage races, fights where phases are skippable with enough damage, and retarded PUGs that get wiped down to just the healer and tank. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 01:49
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Zasraik posted:In dungeons what is a shotgun user primarily good for? It's a common secondary weapon choice for DPS, paired with AR or Pistols. This is Nightmare-specific, you can use whatever you want to DPS in normals. Advanced Nightmare players sometimes use it as a healer or even a tank to provide Breaching Shot and/or Cleanup, but this requires adequate gear and skill and an appropriate build to do your primary job with just the primary weapon.
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Sep 14, 2013 02:53
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I just almost completed my first 18s (couldn't take down the last boss of Hell Raised before our healer had to leave). The tank told all of us DPS to equip Shotgun for Cleanup and rotate using it when we got 2 stacks of the debuff. It was working pretty well but unfortunately our healer had to go after a few attempts. I have a question about group/damage buffs. If I have say Deadly Aim, Breaching Shot, and Do or Die, do I wanna use them all at the same time or do I want to rotate using each individual one? I've just been waiting til 5 resources, then popping my stimulant/kickback and all of my buffs at the same time with my finishers. After that I use each buff individually as it comes back up. Is there a better way to do it?
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Sep 14, 2013 04:37
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Okita posted:I have a question about group/damage buffs. If I have say Deadly Aim, Breaching Shot, and Do or Die, do I wanna use them all at the same time or do I want to rotate using each individual one? Using them all at the same time is best. Right before your consumers is good, since depending on the weapon you might get another round of consumers off. Typically, groups choose a buff order to keep as many up continuously as possible at the beginning of a fight, since with 10-15s of having both Breaching Shot and Deadly Aim up, most fights tend to be short.
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Sep 14, 2013 05:05
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I just did my first NM runs as well. 18s and then HE, which was also really easy, so that was cool.
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Sep 14, 2013 05:17
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Thanks for all the great advice. Can I check please which is the better rotation: Nurture -> Creature Comfort -> Cauterise -> Surgical Steel or Cauterise -> Creature Comfort -> Nurture -> Surgical Steel Reverend Dr has mentioned both, so I'm unclear which one works best.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXv9DSEbxpc Holy balls /stuck actually works sometimes!
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Sep 15, 2013 19:22
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Bursk posted:Thanks for all the great advice. I don't think the order matters that much as just getting all the HoTs up, although you can choose to use Surgical Steel as the first finisher if your tank needs a burst of healing sooner. I've been experimenting with fistblood healing now that I have my Issue 6 Headpiece + Signet of Thingy and Exquisite Corpse is indeed bugged. I was on an 18s run in NM Polaris when we got to Ur-Draug and our undergeared tank was taking 90% of his HP per swing and the healer couldn't keep up. I switched to a Chaos/Blood DPS build and put Exquisite Corpse on my bar with 0 healing gear equipped. I timed the EC casts right as the boss was winding up a big swing and our tank would only take half as much damage and the healer had no problems keeping him up (but our DPS kept pulling aggro and dying or getting blown up in phase 2 so we called it anyway). It was just amusing seeing the faintest sliver of a shield on the tank followed by him taking half of a normally giant 9k damage boss swing.
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Sep 15, 2013 19:44
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Bursk posted:Can I check please which is the better rotation: The order doesn't matter. Once into the rotation it will be the same. Any difference will only apply to the first 3 seconds of the fight and will at most be like an extra 10HP of healing across the entire fight (that's 10 points total, not 10HPS). Strictly speaking using Creature Comfort to give feral regrowth (as opposed to Surgical Steel giving Savage Sweep) will increase healing, but that extra healing is only on yourself, so it is irrelevant (and also a trivial amount of healing). Going beyond one of those rotations to weave in more Cauterizes to keep the HoTs going as much as possible can theoretically have a gain. Though at this point you would have to install Eth's Buff Bars to monitor each and every single HoT and the gain would be something like +60HPS against a base of 1395HPS at the expense of turning a simple rotation into something abhorrent; which is guaranteed to instead reduce overall healing due to failure to correctly perform the rotation and the gain would be irrelevant as 1395HPS is far more than can actually be used in the game. Unless your healing build is just awful, its not about increasing your overall threshold, its about having healing that is actually useful to the party (i.e. not just eaten up as more useless overhealing). Bursts of healing to overcome large damage spikes, party healing when necessary. Knowing the fights and being able to anticipate what is going to happen is so tremendously more beneficial, so grab a simple rotation (either caut/surg spam, or the 1,1,1,1) and pay attention to the fight rather than the rotation rhythm sub-game. Reverend Dr fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 18:00
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Got it. Thanks 
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Sep 16, 2013 18:43
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Note that the HoT from Cauterize stacks up to three times. For this reason, I tend to stack Cauterize up to 3 into a Surgical Steel (or 5 into a Creature Comfort if I have the leisure) and keep Nurture rolling (with its passive).
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Sep 16, 2013 22:05
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Last night we were doing our 18s and had an interesting graphical bug. Zepho was laying down on the job the entire fight shooting bullets and fire into the air. She almost caused a wipe when I thought she was dead and got confused at how she died.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:30
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Who's that rear end in a top hat with the terrible name? A pubbie?
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Sep 18, 2013 00:41
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Brain In A Jar posted:Who's that rear end in a top hat with the terrible name? A pubbie? Me?
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Sep 18, 2013 00:46
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My guess is iDread and nope he's a goon. And Cheston heckles him all the time. It's not as bad as any of my names though.
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Sep 18, 2013 00:49
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I just started playing and am having enjoying TSW but I have a question/problem. Typically in MMOs I'm running around PVEing and enjoy defensive characters with an added bit of survivability. So I picked Blood magic so I could heal myself -not knowing that the heals were barrier/buffer spells. Any pointers other than apparently changing over to fist weapons? Kumo fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 00:52
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Kumo posted:I just started playing and am having enjoying TSW but I have a question/problem. No, fists should be fine for you. As a secondary weapon, consider Blades and Assault Rifles, both have some of what you're looking for.
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Sep 18, 2013 02:19
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I am goddamn paralyzed with indecision about builds. I like Chaos/Shotgun because I like the Shotgun sound effects and I like to Shoryuken dudes. But I also don't want to tank, most other trees (except hammer and claw) look pretty cool, and I also want to breeze through the game to experience the content then maybe fill out other stuff later. Someone just tell me a build so I can just narrow my focus and play instead of just staring at my skill trees all afraid and logging out. I'm still really low level so starting over skill/gear wise won't be a big deal.
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Sep 18, 2013 07:22
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mango sentinel posted:, and I also want to breeze through the game to experience the content then maybe fill out other stuff later. AR/Shotgun is pretty fun and fast to level with, since most of what you want is in or close to the inner wheel of AR. You can use Slow the Advance to open and kill things before they can reach you, and that'll work nicely until you get to Transylvania, at which point hinders stop working and you can swap it out for whatever. I recommend glyphing Hit and Penetration in equal number if you want to speed up leveling. Oh, and buy tacos at the haitian market in London. They pretty much eliminate downtime between fights. Cheston fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 10:27
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Looks like our next event is the called Agartha Defiled and comes complete with lore, cheevos and more stuff for your pretty pretty princess wardrobes.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:14
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testlive posted:Wearing Speedos with certain coats no longer causes legs to disappear Enjoy it while it lasts.
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Sep 18, 2013 21:10
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Cheston posted:Enjoy it while it lasts. Lets be honest, we will never be without clothes that don't bug out.
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Sep 18, 2013 21:30
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