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caberham posted:You guys really ought to read the OP The problem is that you can't actually get a cab in Beijing, ever.
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Sep 13, 2013 04:25
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Also if you're near the airport, isn't that a special 7 rmb subway fare?
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Sep 13, 2013 04:28
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caberham posted:You guys really ought to read the OP Pretty sure the airport express is always a flat 25 RMB. I have to admit, I love the airport express and the Beijing subway in general...except for line 13. Line 13 can seriously go gently caress itself.
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Sep 13, 2013 04:47
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blinkyzero posted:Pretty sure the airport express is always a flat 25 RMB. That's the airport express, he's near line 15. I live on line 13, and ...the train is fine, I guess. It's the transfers that suck. All of them.
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Sep 13, 2013 07:05
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Throatwarbler posted:The problem is that you can't actually get a cab in Beijing, ever. You have to put yourself in the cabbie's shoes. Think about where they're most likely to be and why, make sure you're waiting someplace where they can actually stop, be on the right side of the right road. If you're out someplace past the 6th ring road or something, sure you can probably forget it. In town, it's only hard if you assume that the taxi drivers actually give a poo poo about you and your needs.
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Sep 13, 2013 07:16
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VideoTapir posted:You have to put yourself in the cabbie's shoes. Think about where they're most likely to be and why, make sure you're waiting someplace where they can actually stop, be on the right side of the right road. If you're out someplace past the 6th ring road or something, sure you can probably forget it. In town, it's only hard if you assume that the taxi drivers actually give a poo poo about you and your needs. If you put yourself in the cabbie's shoes you would quit driving taxis and go do something that actually makes money. http://www.economist.com/node/21551537 http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-traveler/2013/03/beijing-taxi-problem-explained
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Sep 13, 2013 08:58
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Throatwarbler posted:If you put yourself in the cabbie's shoes you would ...because it is a city of 3.5 million people in which most bus services cease by 1930 and all have ceased by 2030.
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Sep 13, 2013 09:02
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VideoTapir posted:Sometimes I think I'm the only person in China who can read one. What's the most common direction landmark for the majority of people in China? Here it's the millions of local temples, but I'm guessing it's something different there.
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Sep 13, 2013 09:29
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Everyone here gives directions according to the nearest McDonald's or KFC
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Sep 13, 2013 09:32
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We do that here with curry houses...
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Sep 13, 2013 09:39
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ReindeerF posted:I'm glad to hear the map thing is a pan-Asian phenomenon. Cardinal directions are another personal favorite. Somehow people can know what a southern province is and what southern food is, but if you ask them which direction South is, totally lost. Hahaha, you think Chinese people navigate by landmarks.
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Sep 13, 2013 09:57
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Throatwarbler posted:If you put yourself in the cabbie's shoes you would quit driving taxis and go do something that actually makes money. Yeah, and that's just part of why they aren't going to want to take a fare that doesn't get in, get out, and leave them somewhere they'll immediately get another fare. The closer you are to that situation, the more likely you'll get a cab.
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Sep 13, 2013 10:01
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ReindeerF posted:I'm glad to hear the map thing is a pan-Asian phenomenon. Cardinal directions are another personal favorite. Somehow people can know what a southern province is and what southern food is, but if you ask them which direction South is, totally lost. That's not true in mainland. If you ask for directions, they tell you X meters and then point North/South/East/West like some boy scout. Which is really weird instead of listing by street intersections and street blocks
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Sep 13, 2013 10:26
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 Meet me at the South Gate. Is the South Gate the big gate or the small gate?  The "big" gate is four times the size of the "small" gate, so it's not like it's an equivocal description.
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Sep 13, 2013 10:35
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VideoTapir posted:Hahaha, you think Chinese people navigate by landmarks. caberham posted:That's not true in mainland. If you ask for directions, they tell you X meters and then point North/South/East/West like some boy scout. Which is really weird instead of listing by street intersections and street blocks
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Sep 13, 2013 10:44
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In China they navigate by guanxi. You know someone who knows the way and they meet you at the subway station or bus stop or some mutually-findable place and show you how to get there. Alternately you get in the vicinity of the address you're looking for. You ask people on the street and they point you in what they think is the right direction. Except half the time it's the wrong direction. This isn't just me speaking for my stupid foreigner experience, this happens to my wife, too.
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Sep 13, 2013 10:52
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Got my L visa for Shanghai today. Since I will be staying with my parents who work there I was afraid that it might get tricky and that the embassy could ask me to apply for a super-complicated S2 visa. But no such things, the letter of invitation (instead of a hotel booking) was enough. Departing in 15 days  caberham posted:That's not true in mainland. If you ask for directions, they tell you X meters and then point North/South/East/West like some boy scout. Which is really weird instead of listing by street intersections and street blocks They also do that here in Vienna. Last week I applied for my visa and went to the embassy instead of the consulate (since nothing on their homepage indicated that the consulate is responsible) and one of their employees came down and explained almost to a meter how far to go and where to turn, but without any street names. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 11:02
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China has street signs and address numbers on buildings and maps and modern GPS. The bus stops even have QR codes. Stop getting lost people!
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Sep 13, 2013 11:09
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MeramJert posted:Everyone here gives directions according to the nearest McDonald's or KFC Have never experienced that apart from "there's a mcdonald's/kfc/starbucks/bank/hotel/whatever nearby". Usually it's navigation by traffic lights. The funny thing is if a foreigner asks how far something is, it's always "really far, get a taxi". If Chinese asks, it's like just a 15 minute walk away.
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Sep 13, 2013 11:34
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Have never experienced that apart from "there's a mcdonald's/kfc/starbucks/bank/hotel/whatever nearby". Usually it's navigation by traffic lights. Yeah, I was joking they don't really do that. But there's so many McDonald's and KFCs that you totally could navigate that way. There are two KFCs and two McDonald's within a block of me. Arglebargle III posted:China has street signs and address numbers on buildings and maps and modern GPS. The bus stops even have QR codes. Stop getting lost people! Shenzhen doesn't "do" address numbers. My last apartment building was on a street that literally didn't have a name until right before I left. fart simpson fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 13:28
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MeramJert posted:Shenzhen doesn't "do" address numbers. My last apartment building was on a street that literally didn't have a name until right before I left. Living in a small city like we do now creates similar headaches. There's a million people in this place and it's geographically sizable, but only the main roads have any kind of distinguishing names or numbers. Fearcotton and I had to take a taxi to Yuyao a few weeks ago from the Hangzhou airport, and the poor Hangzhou cabby had to actually chase down a bunch of local Yuyao cabbies in order to get help. (One of these gentlemen casually offered us directions whilst relieving himself smack dab in the middle of the pavement immediately past the highway toll booths. Several of the booth attendants were observing his great stream of piss and its issuing organ with impressed miens.) I'd never come into the city before via that highway and was of no help to the guy until he got closer to our part of town.
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Sep 13, 2013 14:07
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Cabbies are a hit and miss when it comes to giving street names. Best bet is to use a smart phone and have a screen shot of the map, and a few photos for land marks. Oh and.. Attention goons: For an awesome full goon festival please update goon docs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao_-L8ioMQ71dEs4V1o4M0x2WFpxSVlkYmVZbjhsc3c#gid=0 Goon docs is out of date
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Sep 13, 2013 18:57
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VideoTapir posted:Sometimes I think I'm the only person in China who can read one. I think I broke pro-prc. He keeps making retarded, unfunny jokes about me, aside from making weird anti-Zionist posts in GBS. Oh well, if I were a 70 year-old man on the Internet i would probably get rather annoyed at someone buying me a ponytar because i tried to copycat an actually funny troll in a stupid and repetitive way, without any original thought of my own. And I wouldn't dare buying a new avatar because the person I was picking on for no reason has another  to waste on me.Oh well I better get back to shouting at my neighbors about parking rules.
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Sep 13, 2013 19:13
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caberham posted:Cabbies are a hit and miss when it comes to giving street names. Best bet is to use a smart phone and have a screen shot of the map, and a few photos for land marks. Oh and.. Added some stuff.
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Sep 13, 2013 20:36
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Hey, so I'm chatting with someone on the possibility of getting a job in China (I'm in the US). Had a few questions that I'm wasn't positive were answered by the OP. I currently don't own a smart phone, would it be better to buy one here or to get one once I get to China using one of the preferred carriers? What are the thoughts on OpenVPN? How easy is it to use? Can I install this onto my Windows 8 machine (which won't be going to China with me), or do I need a dedicated machine? Or should I just get a pay-for VPN? What's the best way for me to start learning how to read/speak Chinese? (I would like to be able to order food and count money in the very least when I get there). How easy is it to ship things to myself once I'm in China? I know the OP said pretty much anything I can find here is over there, though some things might be more expensive. I have some folks that want to send stuff to me once in a while, what are some things to bear in mind? Otherwise, as an American who hasn't been to another country in some 26 years (I drove through Canada to get between Alaska and the lower 48 when I was 3), what are some things I should keep in mind? I'm a pretty open minded guy and can hit the ground running in pretty much any kind of situation; I love to travel and meet new people, but I've never had to deal with a language barrier. (Okay, so I've dealt with Hispanic migrant workers before, but I know just enough Spanish and they knew just enough English that we could communicate with hand signs and pictures to fill in the gaps).
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Sep 13, 2013 23:00
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edit: probably better suited to the LAN thread. but! have any of you done the Trans-siberian rail, and if so, would it be batcrap crazy to try to do it over Spring Festival? FearCotton fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 23:49
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VideoTapir posted:In China they navigate by guanxi. I dunno if you guys have the phenomenon, but her, basically, Bangkok is a world unto itself where people only know their way around 2-3 neighborhoods and are completely perplexed by every single thing outside of those areas. Your older cities (and newer) are pretty large, I can imagine some people who grew up in a time when they never got out of the neighborhood and who are truly perplexed by everything.
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Sep 14, 2013 02:30
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ReindeerF posted:...perplexed by everything. Said was wrong, the Orient is genuinely vast and unknowable.
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Sep 14, 2013 02:44
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ReindeerF posted:I dunno if you guys have the phenomenon, but her, basically, Bangkok is a world unto itself where people only know their way around 2-3 neighborhoods and are completely perplexed by every single thing outside of those areas. We have that in Korea! I know my city better than most of my friends who were born here. They know their neighborhood quite well, but beyond that? "Too far" starts at about a kilometer from home, so they've never been there.
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Sep 14, 2013 03:35
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YF19pilot posted:Hey, so I'm chatting with someone on the possibility of getting a job in China (I'm in the US). Had a few questions that I'm wasn't positive were answered by the OP. Less bullshit (unless you're buying Apple) and more options buying a phone in China, and prices are about the same...except that there are more cheap models that aren't available in the US. You don't have to buy a phone from the carrier in China, you just buy any phone that can work on their network (and if you aren't using 3G/4G, that's ANY phone with a SIM card slot) and get a SIM from the carrier. quote:What are the thoughts on OpenVPN? How easy is it to use? Can I install this onto my Windows 8 machine (which won't be going to China with me), or do I need a dedicated machine? Or should I just get a pay-for VPN? I suspect your personal VPN (I presume you're talking about using some non-chinese server to set this up yourself?) would be less of a target for blocking than any commercial service, so that's probably a better option than anything else if you don't mind the hassle. But if you're doing this, the SSH tunnel method that Pro-PRC mentioned earlier is probably better and would require similar resources. If I recall correctly, when Witopia got blocked (RIGHT AFTER I BOUGHT THE SERVICE!) it was the OpenVPN service that went away completely in China. I'm not sure if that says anything about it being more likely to be blocked, or if it just happened that way in this instance. edit: Set up both OpenVPN and SSH on your remote server if you can; always best to have more options if something doesn't work as you planned. quote:What's the best way for me to start learning how to read/speak Chinese? (I would like to be able to order food and count money in the very least when I get there). Chinese girlfriend with bad English. quote:How easy is it to ship things to myself once I'm in China? I know the OP said pretty much anything I can find here is over there, though some things might be more expensive. I have some folks that want to send stuff to me once in a while, what are some things to bear in mind? Big and tall clothes, and shoe sizes over 11. They can be had, but they're hard to find offline, and they're not in the quantity they are available in the US, and sizing charts are all WRONG if you buy online. Things sometimes go missing in the mail to and from China. quote:Otherwise, as an American who hasn't been to another country in some 26 years (I drove through Canada to get between Alaska and the lower 48 when I was 3) Hey, me too! And I don't remember a thing from Canada. Where in AK are you from? quote:what are some things I should keep in mind? I'm a pretty open minded guy and can hit the ground running in pretty much any kind of situation; I love to travel and meet new people, but I've never had to deal with a language barrier. (Okay, so I've dealt with Hispanic migrant workers before, but I know just enough Spanish and they knew just enough English that we could communicate with hand signs and pictures to fill in the gaps). You're going to get diarrhea, maybe worse. Traffic is insane, crossing streets seems suicidal at first, follow the crowds and you'll PROBABLY be fine, but use your head about it. Spoken Chinese is the simplest language I've ever studied. Whenever you think "no, that couldn't possibly be how to say it" it probably is. Sentence structure is similar to English, and usage of WAY more words than I'd have expected is basically identical; you just have to wrap your head around a few foreign grammatical concepts (particles being the big one that springs to mind) and you'll be sailing. Chinese had about a 90% pass rate when I was at the Defense Language Institute. My program, Korean, was at 40%; for comparison. Now READING is a different matter. VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 06:12
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VideoTapir posted:Spoken Chinese is the simplest language I've ever studied. You okay! You okay! You okay? Okay. I hungry. I want eat dumpling. Give you. Okay. I ate full. Bye! edit: dumpring Woodsy Owl fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 07:13
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Chinese seems that way once you have the pronunciation problems down because it's uninflected but then once you start to learn more it opens out again. The lack of inflection can even start to make things harder in following long sentences with the verb at the end. It's still far far easier than reading and writing.
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Sep 14, 2013 08:04
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ReindeerF posted:Bangkokians, particularly Thai-Chinese, are the same. "Okay, so head to the Rama V Bridge and the-" "Let me call my uncle." A daisy-chain of 14 relative referrals ensues as I point, "It's that way, just head toward the Goddamn river, Jesus. There's only one." I recall from...I think it was the traffic engineer thread...something about Bangkok having this insane street layout where it's like row after row of kilometer-long dead-end streets, and no access between them except by going to the arterial; basically isolating what would be a city block anywhere else from direct access to any of the blocks adjacent. That would definitely explain the phenomenon you're describing. China doesn't have that exactly. But a lot of the high-rise developments and older 5-8 story apartment complexes have walled courtyards that cut blocks in half, or even encompass entire blocks, and they may only have one entrance or exit. The last place I lived had three separate complexes, two of them high-rises, with a single narrow street for getting in and out of all of them. The old one and two-story hutongs tend to link up with everything around them, but in a rather chaotic fashion. The arterials are orderly (in layout, at least), everything in between is chaos. I'm speaking mainly for Beijing, here, but most of the cities I've been to are similar.
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Sep 14, 2013 10:52
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VideoTapir posted:But a lot of the high-rise developments and older 5-8 story apartment complexes have walled courtyards that cut blocks in half, or even encompass entire blocks, and they may only have one entrance or exit. It's all about access control and quit frankly it's awesome. Keeps out the riffraff and makes for easier security.
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Sep 14, 2013 10:58
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:It's all about access control and quit frankly it's awesome. Keeps out the riffraff and makes for easier security. If you never walk anywhere it might be awesome, fatty.
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Sep 14, 2013 10:59
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:It's all about access control and quit frankly it's awesome. Keeps out the riffraff and makes for easier security. Is there ever a time where you don't sound like a sneering imperialist? Also I think street layouts everywhere are pretty 
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Sep 14, 2013 11:03
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VideoTapir posted:I recall from...I think it was the traffic engineer thread...something about Bangkok having this insane street layout where it's like row after row of kilometer-long dead-end streets, and no access between them except by going to the arterial; basically isolating what would be a city block anywhere else from direct access to any of the blocks adjacent. That would definitely explain the phenomenon you're describing. This is actually something that cities later to develop (ie tier 2) tend to have going for them. Shanghai and Beijing are complete messes compared to most tier 2 cities that learned from a lot of mistakes like this and make a lot more sense. Some tier 2 cities like Hangzhou and Qingdao still have terrible issues (Qingdao's city center is on the ocean and based partially on the old German colonial era which leads to a bunch of issues, and some idiot decided West Lake should be basically the city center for Hangzhou which leads to traffic nightmare), but overall a lot of places like Xiamen and Chengdu have very little in the way of this kind of thing. Chengdu has the least traffic I've ever seen in a Chinese city on the merit of not having any roads 15 years ago and actually planning poo poo out.
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Sep 14, 2013 11:10
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The Worst Muslim posted:Is there ever a time where you don't sound like a sneering imperialist? Hong Kong island looks like the city planner's kid drew on his topographical map with a crayon just before he had a big meeting and he brought it in and said "Yeah this is what we're doing"
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Sep 14, 2013 11:30
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VideoTapir posted:Less bullshit (unless you're buying Apple) and more options buying a phone in China, and prices are about the same...except that there are more cheap models that aren't available in the US. I will definitely keep this in mind. I'll start looking into seeing if I can play around with OpenVPN/SSH in the meantime to see if I can get it to work before I'm too busy to iron out any bugs. VideoTapir posted:Chinese girlfriend with bad English. Thankfully I'm not completely goony, so neither should be a problem (though I may start pestering my Chinese friend from college). I'm a XL shirt, 38x30 pant, and 10.5 shoe. Will keep in mind not to send anything expensive or important through the mail. VideoTapir posted:Hey, me too! And I don't remember a thing from Canada. Where in AK are you from? Me, neither! I lived up in North Pole, AK, my folks were stationed at Eielson AFB. Left while I was young, can only remember the winters and the war were both cold. Oh, and building igloos. VideoTapir posted:You're going to get diarrhea, maybe worse. I look forward to this, for better or for worse. I remember my Chinese friend from college describing what it was like for his father to teach him how to write Chinese. It sounded like some real Klingon stuff with his father being strict about what order each line is to be drawn. Like, "What if you are in a life or death situation! If you don't do each line in the correct order, you'll die!" My ATC friend got a kick out of it.
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Sep 14, 2013 11:58
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Magna Kaser posted:This is actually something that cities later to develop (ie tier 2) tend to have going for them. Shanghai and Beijing are complete messes compared to most tier 2 cities that learned from a lot of mistakes like this and make a lot more sense. Wuhu and Hefei are pretty much like Beijing in the broad strokes, but with a balance more skewed to the hutongs than the apartment complexes. Shenyang seemed to be going that way when I visited in 06. YF19pilot posted:Thankfully I'm not completely goony, so neither should be a problem (though I may start pestering my Chinese friend from college). I'm a XL shirt, 38x30 pant, and 10.5 shoe. Will keep in mind not to send anything expensive or important through the mail. Shoes you'll be okay, most shoes top out at Chinese size 44 or 45, which is about an 11 in US sizes. Pants, you're like the standard pudgy northern Chinese gentleman's size. Shirts will be hit-or-miss, and a pain in the rear end if you have broad shoulders. quote:Me, neither! I lived up in North Pole, AK, my folks were stationed at Eielson AFB. Left while I was young, can only remember the winters and the war were both cold. Oh, and building igloos. I lived in North Pole...for 17 years. And Salcha for 6. I REMEMBER EVERYTHING. VideoTapir fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 11:59
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