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Fabricated posted:I think it's kinda funny that the only people at the Kamogawa gym that can seem to win titles are the people who are trained exclusively by Kamogawa himself. Shinoda is going to kill himself in shame 
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Sep 13, 2013 13:37
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Eh Itagaki is fine. He's just never fought anyone who had scouted him to the degree that Imai had. Itagaki didn't really take him lightly at all. He was 100% focused on the match from the start. Imai just had a strategy that he executed to perfection. Itagaki has just never had to focus on his flaws as he was able to speed rush every other one of his opponents. The only thing Itagaki needs to change from this match is to mix up his tells, and escape moves. Itagaki is overconfident, like every Non-Ippo fighter in the series is, but he didn't look down on Imai at all.
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Sep 13, 2013 14:23
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Dexo posted:Eh Itagaki is fine. Even when Imai rushed him down and cornered him, even when he got hit on the shoulder and got his back to the corner, he didn't take anything seriously at until the moment he got fist in his liver. But at that point the match was already over. But in the end the lesson from this fight is not that "i need to be even faster", it's that as Imai said, if he gets nailed once, if he gets held or outsmarted or out-lucked, so that he can't use his speed to run circles around the opponent, then he's got nothing. His punches are weak and he just can't take a hit at all. If it had been Ippo taking that body blow it would have been a pained grin at most and then right back to defending. If it had been Ippo (or Imai, or well anyone else really) in the corner, he would likely have managed to defend himself or get out somehow. Basically Itagaki needs to be more than just a one-gimmick fighter or he's going to have more crushing defeats like this the moment his one gimmick doesn't work anymore. In a way this is a hard lesson for the World Stage, and Itagaki just learned it the hard way (so Ippo doesn't have to (Ippo doesn't have the one-gimmick problem though (except 'being a punching bag') but I bet it will come back to him somehow)). Bisse fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 14:33
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Bisse posted:Totally disagree. He spent the first few seconds of the match absorbing cheers and thinking about how loving awesome he is and how hard he's going to win. That's what ended up costing him the match. Eh? He didn't absorb cheers besides when he first got in the Ring before Imai was introduced. As soon as they touched gloves he went back to his corner and got his mouthpiece. Imai rushed him immediately and trapped him in a corner. Itagaki was confident he could get out as he has never had a problem escaping being cornered before. Imai just had him scouted to know how he gets out of those situations, and was able to come up with a counter to it. Being confident and charismatic doesn't mean that you are looking down on your opponent. Itagaki has just never fought anyone who has scouted him and his tendencies to the degree that Imai did, as Imai has already lost to him once. And yeah Itagaki has to get better. But It's not like it's the end of the world. Ippo and Itagaki are completely different Boxer's Ippo couldn't dodge any of those blows and has to build his body in such a way to tank the hits.
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Sep 13, 2013 14:59
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How can you say Itagaki took this 100% serious when there is like half a chapter where the crowd is yelling at him to stop being cocky and put his loving guard up? Calling himself Cronos is exactly why he lost.
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Sep 13, 2013 15:43
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Dexo posted:Eh? He didn't absorb cheers besides when he first got in the Ring before Imai was introduced. As soon as they touched gloves he went back to his corner and got his mouthpiece. Imai rushed him immediately and trapped him in a corner. Itagaki was confident he could get out as he has never had a problem escaping being cornered before. Imai just had him scouted to know how he gets out of those situations, and was able to come up with a counter to it. And the point isn't if Imai was prepared or not, because anyone going up in a title match is going to prepare and study his opponent. The point is that Itagaki really has nothing else to bring to the ring than his speed, and if he can't use it, or if it doesn't work, then he's got nothing. It is very bad for Itagaki because now that he's facing opponents that can handle it, he just needs to make one mistake and the match is over. It's a wake-up call to develop your other aspects, and also to start taking your opponents seriously. Really, the match could also have went on for 5 rounds before Imai landed that hit, but this way it makes for a much better read and a much harder lesson for Itagaki.
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Sep 13, 2013 15:56
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After the defeat Itagaki suffered, I'm really excited for the next fight. There's been a lot of foreshadowing that Ippo may lose and I'm glad this one is just about wrapped up so we can get to the next bout. I hope they do a bit of character development with Itagaki though. Like some others have said, he's gotten super cocky.
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Sep 13, 2013 15:57
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Rainbow Pony Deluxe posted:How can you say Itagaki took this 100% serious when there is like half a chapter where the crowd is yelling at him to stop being cocky and put his loving guard up? Calling himself Cronos is exactly why he lost. Haha You missed like 4 pages of that chapter. It was Takamura, not the Crowd. And Itagaki had his guard down as a part of his strategy to use a counter to escape. Itagaki was 100% focused he just legit lost. Chalking it up to Itagaki not taking it seriously downplays the strategy that Imai used. Also, Itagaki didn't create the Chronos name it was the ring announcer. Edit: http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1027/2042/5 http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1027/2042/6 http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1027/2042/7 Imai just didn't take the Bait. Dexo fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 15:58
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Dexo posted:Being confident and charismatic doesn't mean that you are looking down on your opponent. He literally laughs off Imai in the pre-match warm-up. Imai, the guy who made a habit of beating the poo poo out of him before they were pros. Imai, the guy he beat once in a decision match that left Imai perfectly fine and Itagaki in the hospital. That he only won in the first place because Imai looked down on him. He actually thinks of himself as "the Speed King" in his own head. There's also all his rape face moments when he thinks about fighting Ippo. He absolutely buys into himself as a great boxer, he absolutely looks down on other people. As we've seen, he's not a great boxer. He's a stupid, prideful kid with one neat trick. He goes fast. Take that away and he has nothing. And it's not like his pride is some new thing, it cost him his first loss too. He never gets the point that he's not as good as he thinks he is, and now he's not going to be the champion because of it. Imai got the point that even this kid he regularly beat could rise up and take him if he drops his guard, so he set out to never drop his guard again. You know why Itagaki lost this fight? He counted on being faster than Imai, so he dropped his guard to setup a counter. If he didn't, Imai would have run out of stamina and Itagaki probably gets out of the corner and can make it a fight from there. The metaphor made explicit, he drops his guard and loses. If he accepted "Imai is a bruiser and I've taken a lot of damage, I need to weather this and get out of the corner" he might have won. Instead he gets the first part, and goes with "I'm the speed king though, I'll just leave myself open and beat him to the punch" for the end.
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Sep 13, 2013 16:03
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He did the creepy face to Ippo like, one or two times, when the manga was at its absolute worst. Like if that's the worst thing you can remember inbetween Ippo getting smacked around by a man's unlaced boxing glove for ten chapters and Japanese Champion Ippo Makunouchi being elated at being able to have landed a punch on the rookie who spent 6 rounds beating him into the ground, you're a stronger, more patient person than me. I strongly prefer Itagaki's annoying carefree attitude and stupid puns to Ippo's two modes of frowny self-doubt / intense I-MUST-WIN-PRAISE-FROM-KAMOGAWA stand there and get hit routine. I kinda just wanted him to win the title inoffensively so we could go on with the main story. We're almost certainly gonna get a month of Itagaki standing with his back turned to Ippo as the wind caresses both of them now, and after that humiliation he'll need to build up his reputation again, so we're probably in for 2 or 3 more teleporty fights. And this is on top of every other plot point we have. Ippo's fights, Takamura, Aoki getting revenge on that dude who nearly killed him. We had to watch Itagaki get built up in really bad fights for years, so that he can be completely demolished in 30 seconds, so that in a year or two from now he can maybe be where he was at 5 chapters ago. Idunno guys! Maybe I'm just a dumb Itagaki lover!
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Sep 13, 2013 16:39
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Dude are you serious? http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1023/2020/4 Listening to the crowd with a smile and then showing off. http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1023/2020/13 Waving to the crowd. http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1023/2020/15 http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1023/2020/16 Imai puts his mouthpiece in and gets ready for the bell. Itagaki... punches the corner bag, and thinks about how hard he's going to win, with his back towards his opponent. http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1024/2022/9 http://readms.com/r/hajime_no_ippo/1024/2022/10 The coach reacting to the opponent approaching before the boxer does. And he doesn't even realize his mistake! Instead of at least thinking "whoops" or "oh, I need to handle this situation" his thoughts are going like "Got it! I am totally focused, i'm in the loving zone, you're so slow look how slow you are." He doesn't even realize what is going on! And finally look at the way he goes down in the end - after having taken more than a dozen close-range bodyblows, he still thinks he's the king, he has absolutely no idea about his own limitations, he thinks he can do whatever he wants, and because of that he makes a stupid decision and goes out in the worst way possible. The simple facts are: He lost the game the moment he got the first punch to the gut. He got punched in the gut because he wasn't ready in the first seconds when the match started, and then he didn't take his opponent seriously. He lost because he was too smug and overconfident. Just the way we all wanted it to happen.
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Sep 13, 2013 16:53
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Simoom posted:He did the creepy face to Ippo like, one or two times, when the manga was at its absolute worst. Like if that's the worst thing you can remember inbetween Ippo getting smacked around by a man's unlaced boxing glove for ten chapters and Japanese Champion Ippo Makunouchi being elated at being able to have landed a punch on the rookie who spent 6 rounds beating him into the ground, you're a stronger, more patient person than me. I strongly prefer Itagaki's annoying carefree attitude and stupid puns to Ippo's two modes of frowny self-doubt / intense I-MUST-WIN-PRAISE-FROM-KAMOGAWA stand there and get hit routine. These chapters feel good not only because his smug face got what's coming but also because finally someone has a way to counter his stupid bonkers SpeedOfSound "fighting style" which was getting dreadful to watch and were the exact opposite to what I like in this manga. Finally we get to see the weaknesses and drawbacks of focusing only on speed and focus. I'm happy not only because he kind of got what's coming but also because this is basically confirmation that intelligent, well-rounded, experienced fighters are in the end going to come out on top of stupid gimmick poo poo like this so we can have more fights like Mike vs Volg instead of dumb poo poo like Woli vs Ippo and Itagaki vs Anyone.
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Sep 13, 2013 17:00
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Yeah I get where you're coming from for sure. The Saeki fight was the worst fight in recent memory. Aside from maybe when Ippo fought that guy and they stared at each other for the first four chapters or so. I just don't have the same faith as you I guess, cuz I think of a smart, well-rounded, experienced fighter, and all I can picture is Ippo or Takamura punching him in the face after being dominated for ten rounds.
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Sep 13, 2013 17:24
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Simoom posted:Yeah I get where you're coming from for sure. The Saeki fight was the worst fight in recent memory. Aside from maybe when Ippo fought that guy and they stared at each other for the first four chapters or so. I just don't have the same faith as you I guess, cuz I think of a smart, well-rounded, experienced fighter, and all I can picture is Ippo or Takamura punching him in the face after being dominated for ten rounds.
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Sep 13, 2013 17:29
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Simoom posted:Yeah I get where you're coming from for sure. The Saeki fight was the worst fight in recent memory. Aside from maybe when Ippo fought that guy and they stared at each other for the first four chapters or so. I just don't have the same faith as you I guess, cuz I think of a smart, well-rounded, experienced fighter, and all I can picture is Ippo or Takamura punching him in the face after being dominated for ten rounds. If we're thinking of the same fight, I legitimately liked the Ippo fight of him just staring the opponent down. It was stupid, but it was a change of pace from the "I will block your fists with my face" style Ippo usually employs. It just went on too long with nothing happening.
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Sep 13, 2013 18:05
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Bisse posted:Dude are you serious? The end of chapter 1024 literally says "Overconfidence Kills!"
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Sep 13, 2013 18:17
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Like i said   
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Sep 13, 2013 19:55
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Jesus guys chill out with your rabid hate of a fake person.
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Sep 13, 2013 21:04
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Chaos341 posted:Jesus guys chill out with your rabid hate of a fake person.
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Sep 13, 2013 21:42
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Bisse posted:TBH it's a very good writer who can make you care so much about a character, even if the feeling is hatred. Does it count if the writer didn't do it on purpose? I'm fairly sure we're supposed to find Itagaki endearing.
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Sep 13, 2013 22:45
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McNerd posted:Does it count if the writer didn't do it on purpose? I'm fairly sure we're supposed to find Itagaki endearing. Now you're just trying to find reasons to be upset.
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Sep 13, 2013 23:23
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Y'know, I've never really thought about how Mori wants us to feel about Itagaki. I mean, he is supposed to eventually fight Ippo.
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Sep 14, 2013 05:22
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Yes, just like Miyata!
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Sep 14, 2013 10:26
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McNerd posted:I'm fairly sure we're supposed to find Itagaki endearing.
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Sep 14, 2013 11:58
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I think Mori hates Itagaki too, in this fight he was the bad guy too. Like i said in one of the spoilers when the fight started Imai = Ippo and Itagaki = chump beaten by Ippo.
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Sep 14, 2013 13:15
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Guys we're forgetting that Itagaki promised that he'd introduce his sister to Imai if he lost their next fight. Romantic sub-plots guys! Guys? But this defeat was telegraphed about 10 chapters ago. Firstly, Itagaki's overconfidence in his normal strategy - He doesn't care who he's fighting for the Japanese belt. And secondly, He doesn't give a poo poo that it's Imai, and we have the bitter vet Aoki making a sound judgement on his attitude.
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Sep 14, 2013 16:12
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Simoom posted:Y'know, I've never really thought about how Mori wants us to feel about Itagaki. I mean, he is supposed to eventually fight Ippo.
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Sep 14, 2013 19:45
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If Imai is really supposed to be Ippo then Itagaki will end up like all of Ippo's opponents and become a cripple
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Sep 14, 2013 22:07
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Itagaki has yet to soundly beat low budget Ippo, he's never going to fight the real thing.
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Sep 14, 2013 22:07
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In honor of Itagaki's defeat and in anticipation of tonight's historic boxing match I'd thought I'd post a little link that shows how a real life "out fighter" manage to survive even when trapped in a corner. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/9/13/4721072/Mayweather-vs-alvarez-technical-analysis-boxing-preview
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Sep 14, 2013 23:12
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New Chapter Well, that's not taking it too bad. He gave his rival a fist bump and wasn't bummed he was so awesome, but because he thinks he disappointed his role model.  Of course Imai has to say that Itagaki is so talented that if hadn't done the psychological damage of this win he probably wouldn't ever be able to beat him again sooooo the whole Itagaki being the Neo of Japanese boxing thing is still there.
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Sep 15, 2013 01:31
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Well at least he took the lost better than I thought. Yeah the fact he was more disappointing in not backing up his promise does kinda suck but hopefully with this he can learn he can't just rely on his speed. Oh who I am kidding. Shindragon fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 03:57
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Hopefully, the plot moves forward and this manga ends.
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Sep 15, 2013 04:22
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Maybe this has been mentioned (and maybe I'm just clueless about how things work) but doesn't it seem a little bias to have a guest commentator from the same gym as two big fighters in the event?
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Sep 15, 2013 04:37
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Eustace posted:In honor of Itagaki's defeat and in anticipation of tonight's historic boxing match I'd thought I'd post a little link that shows how a real life "out fighter" manage to survive even when trapped in a corner. Christ, it's inhuman how fast some of these guys are able to dodge/block punches. It's one of those rare situations where the comic seems to actually understate how fast/accurate people are in real life.
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Sep 15, 2013 05:03
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1030 is out http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hajime-no-Ippo/1030?id=175452 Not gonna lie, the 2 panels of him and the coach in the room are some of the best I've seen from this manga in a long time.
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Sep 21, 2013 00:58
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This is the first match of Ippo's in a really long time where I'm legitimately uncertain about how things will play out.
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Sep 21, 2013 01:25
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Ytlaya posted:This is the first match of Ippo's in a really long time where I'm legitimately uncertain about how things will play out. We're either going to see him bust out the new dempsey roll or get his rear end beat like a rented mule. Either way, good times.
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Sep 21, 2013 03:35
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It's kinda looking to me like Ippo will kick the poo poo out of this guy after the inevitable beating he'll receive because he's Ippo and he almost never ends a match without looking like he fell in a wood chipper.
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Sep 21, 2013 04:45
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Fabricated posted:It's kinda looking to me like Ippo will kick the poo poo out of this guy after the inevitable beating he'll receive because he's Ippo and he almost never ends a match without looking like he fell in a wood chipper. I kinda thought that too but re-read up to the loss to Date and it's pretty apparent that Ippo got a shitload better at defense (relatively) after that fight.
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Sep 21, 2013 21:15
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