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So if I play king of bones I can expect everyone to gang up on me? Booooo 
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Sep 14, 2013 22:57
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Anticheese posted:My experience with 10-Dom Lemuria was that ghosts actually get their rear end kicked by similar numbers of troops. It wasn't as easy as the tales of LA Ermor in D3 lead me to believe, and I only really won by one of the players being an idiot and thinking the other player had his throne appropriately defended while he shuffled his troops around. Lemuria is also slightly different to old LA, current MA Ermor, in that its best commanders are all available from the start. You had to go at least a bit down Conj and Ench to get the most out of Ermor commander-wise, whereas you can now deal a lot more with Evo or whatever. e:^^ Lprsti99 posted:So if I play king of bones I can expect everyone to gang up on me? Booooo jBrereton fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 23:00
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Goon coalitions make houses of cards look like fortresses.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:07
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dis astranagant posted:Goon coalitions make houses of cards look like fortresses. Whoever kills Ermor is rewarded by being stabbed in the back. I'd better not be the one to kill Ermor.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:28
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Conquering Ermor tends to suck. It requires a huge investment in time/resources, and frequently requires you to invest in things you won't otherwise use much, and you have to trudge through low pop provinces that won't give you much gold/etc after taking them. The only bright spot is the ridiculous number of Death gems available from Ermor's capital. For playing as LA Ermor, I was finding that the actual Ermor special summons weren't as cost-effective research-wise as Enchantment 3 revenants, so that might be a good early research target. I don't think playing MA or LA Ermor are good nations to use to learn the game. They're completely different than pretty much any other nation, so pretty much everything you learn will be inapplicable to any other nations you play. The AI doesn't do very much in the way of intelligent tactics. A couple defensively-kitted SCs can seriously take an indefinite number of AI 'armies' on forever, and even mediocrely geared thugs tend to be super effective. They also don't use battle magic well.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:47
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Speleothing posted:Whoever kills Ermor is rewarded by being stabbed in the back. I'd better not be the one to kill Ermor.
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Sep 14, 2013 23:52
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Any new people (like myself) want to try learning the game by playing against each other? I don't see much point in playing against the AI if it's as horrible as people in this thread are saying?
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Sep 14, 2013 23:59
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jBrereton posted:Provided they have a decent way to use 15 death gems a turn, plus whatever else has been sitesearched in Ermorian territory, they might be OK, though. 15D per turn is enough to bootstrap you into D in short order even if you have zero access before that with the added bonus of not giving the other guy 15 free gems. Ermor's forts and provinces may be poo poo but their capital is probably one of the best provs on the map, only outclassed by a few rare school cost reduction sites.
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Sep 15, 2013 00:03
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Pop and Loch Nessy posted:Any new people (like myself) want to try learning the game by playing against each other? I don't see much point in playing against the AI if it's as horrible as people in this thread are saying? I'd probably be down for this. And re: learning the game with Ermor being a bad idea, probably, but I tend to gravitate to those kinds of races (my first race in Sword of the Stars was Hiver  )
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Sep 15, 2013 00:45
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Lprsti99 posted:I'd probably be down for this. I'm not sure what Hivers do but if you want to spam undead then LA C'Tis can be pretty fun. Your priests can reanimate undead chariots and your mages can skele spam with the best of them. I'm guessing they got nerfed pretty hard with slow to recruit though(though so did most nations so maybe not). If freespawn is your thing then Pangaea and its hordes of Maenads might be a good nation to try.
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Sep 15, 2013 01:32
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Pop and Loch Nessy posted:Any new people (like myself) want to try learning the game by playing against each other? I don't see much point in playing against the AI if it's as horrible as people in this thread are saying? Yeah, a newbie game would be good. I played like 2 games of Dom3 a year ago and was pretty lost, id like to learn Dom4 a bit better.
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Sep 15, 2013 01:34
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Learning the game with Ermor is bad because Ermor plays completely differently from any other nation (except for Lemuria and to a lesser extent Asphodel and R'lyeh) so there aren't as many transferable skills to take into your games with other nations.
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Sep 15, 2013 01:36
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Pop and Loch Nessy posted:Any new people (like myself) want to try learning the game by playing against each other? I don't see much point in playing against the AI if it's as horrible as people in this thread are saying? Sure I'd be up for that!
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Sep 15, 2013 01:46
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I'm up for a newbie Dom4 game. I've been puttering around in SP and have the urge to try MP.
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Sep 15, 2013 02:00
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I think I'm going to try this out again. I played a few games of Dom3 and really enjoyed them (even when I died horribly because I don't know how to make or deal with SC's, how to do communions, how to be diplomatic, how to....), but the interface really turned me off to the game, as well as how the game essentially boiled down to only a few real winning strategies. What is it: Wish for a certain unit, Tart spam, blood sacrifices and what else?
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Sep 15, 2013 02:08
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User0015 posted:I think I'm going to try this out again. That was dom3 vanilla. Your options were gemgens (then, usually, wish spam), blood or tarts (d and n). Ideally all three ('sup Sauromatia). I think in most mods you can reasonably win with any path being the primary path for your mages. I guess you could say that the latest metagame in dom3 was raiding, but I like to think that total war was always in style.
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Sep 15, 2013 02:25
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Kin33 posted:I'm not sure what Hivers do but if you want to spam undead then LA C'Tis can be pretty fun. Your priests can reanimate undead chariots and your mages can skele spam with the best of them. I'm guessing they got nerfed pretty hard with slow to recruit though(though so did most nations so maybe not). If freespawn is your thing then Pangaea and its hordes of Maenads might be a good nation to try. Hiver was different in that you didn't have a regular ftl drive, so you expanded really slowly, but once you reached another planet you could set up a gate that allowed you to instantaneously move a large number of ships from any gate to any other gate in one turn, meaning you could essentially ignore fuel and defense fleets, which you needed to deal with for all of the other races. Similar to the problem with starting with Ermor (get to ignore key parts of the game compared to other races). I'll give LA C'Tis a look though.
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Sep 15, 2013 02:38
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Kin33 posted:I'm not sure what Hivers do but if you want to spam undead then LA C'Tis can be pretty fun. Your priests can reanimate undead chariots and your mages can skele spam with the best of them. I'm guessing they got nerfed pretty hard with slow to recruit though(though so did most nations so maybe not). If freespawn is your thing then Pangaea and its hordes of Maenads might be a good nation to try. Slow to recruit is a huge penalty in LA since not a lot of nations got hit with it.
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Sep 15, 2013 03:18
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Pop and Loch Nessy posted:Any new people (like myself) want to try learning the game by playing against each other? I don't see much point in playing against the AI if it's as horrible as people in this thread are saying? There will definitely be a flood of newbie only games going up as soon as the game goes live (I'll be admining a good chunk if no one else does). I'm sure you could organize one during the beta easily enough too.
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Sep 15, 2013 05:02
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Buckled and bought dom4. I am ready to play.
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Sep 15, 2013 05:05
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So, what's the difference between Dom3 and Dom4?
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Sep 15, 2013 05:08
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Mark me down for a newbie game as well.
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Sep 15, 2013 05:10
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BenRGamer posted:So, what's the difference between Dom3 and Dom4? TheDemon posted:What's changed in Dominions 4?
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Sep 15, 2013 05:12
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builds character posted:That was dom3 vanilla. Your options were gemgens (then, usually, wish spam), blood or tarts (d and n). Ideally all three ('sup Sauromatia). According to the thread, Dom4 has massive UI/Quality of Life improvements. How does it handle win conditions? Of course, mods will come out for it as well. I never tried anything except vanilla Dom3 because I'm still new, but it turned me off to the game as a whole and I'm hoping Dom4 fixes that. Combine better win conditions with UI/QoL improvements and I'm interested.
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Sep 15, 2013 05:14
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WYA posted:Gonna stream a blitz against Yuri. I'm bad so come watch me fail Watched the first half of this up to the battle on the Berytos fort, here's comments on the first half: You went F3 A2 E1 S4 D4 N1 Great Sage with Dom7, T3, S1, L2 on Yomi. 51 RP. That's not a bad pretender. Fire is kind of redundant with your mage base though, and Yomi's only sacreds to speak of are the big fat Dai Oni which don't fit a D4 bless. For D4 magic, that's available on the Dai Oni. You can cast Flaming Arrows with F2 on a Hannya, Phoenix Power, and one extra gem (2 gems total), or with F3 on a Dai Oni and one extra gem (2 gems total). F3 S1 does get you Solar Eclipse though, which is a pretty synergistic spell with Yomi. Overall I'm not sure I would have taken F3 D4 but the paths are fine. I think I have to be most critical of your scales choices. Yes, Yomi gets Turmoil discount and has Chaos Power, but unfortunately the turmoil discount is pretty lovely because it returns the gold upon recruitment, which means you have to have the gold in the first place. It's basically a useless ability. Chaos Power on the other hand is handy defensively, but on the offense unless you know you'll be attacking into a Turmoil nation it's actually a penalty to stats vs most nations, since most nations take Order. Those two abilities are probably the worst new abilities in Dom4, unfortunately. Building around them, unless they're changed in a later patch, is probably a mistake. On the other hand, the highest resource unit in your roster are the armored Bandits are rarely used, and most of your units are less than 10 resources. So why not take Sloth 2 or 3? It's pretty much a default for Yomi to go S3. Yes, Dai Oni are 43 res, but that's only once ever 2 turns and you'll still have plenty of res for your r4 shortbows or your r11/10 big demons anyway. Heat 1 so your Hannyas are never in cold in your own dominion is also common. Your research plan is just fine, and exactly the kind of thing a great sage should be used for in a blitz. The Demon General is a fine recruit turn 1. However you didn't make any demons to use him with, AND since you planned on a Dai Oni turn 2, you wouldn't have been able to afford any demons turn 2 either. So even if things had gone according to plan, you'd have queued up some demons turn 3 and had them available turn 4, which is kind of wasteful if you ask me. The 40g demons aren't bad, some people including me like the 20g Ao-Oni though, they're 3/square and their Cold stun damage attack kicks the crap out of elite units like cavalry and things players will recruit against you.. plus you can afford twice as many. In a game with a great sage, especially a blitz, you can sometimes skip mage recruitment for troops early to give you a leg up. That's especially relevant in Dom4 because you no longer have the 150% boost turn 2 so it's much harder to afford mage + troops early. Yomi's starting army is actually fairly good. The Yari weapon on the cheaper bandit is Length 5, which means you want to put them against low-morale indeps to take advantage of their superior repel. Tribals are led by a barb chief, so they have lower morale by default; I'm pretty sure you could have taken them, although Deer tribe with their javelin + short bow comp isn't ideal. You want your sneaky prophet to stick near your own territory to claim thrones. The Berytos player took F4 D5, the D5 gives the pretender fear, but they didn't take Domstr 9 or 10 for the fear+awe combo, which I see as a bit of a mistake. You seem to have pressed w to turn off terrain in battle, if it wasn't intentional press w to get it back. If it was ignore me. I think + and - to adjust research when you hover over still works. Easier than using the mouse. Goblins as a frontline aren't great, they're the same size as your bandits and lower morale and you didn't have the gold to spam them. The gems return shortcut is click on the gems where your income/stockpile is up top, then click pool. Or alternately, right click over each mage's gems in the transfer window instead of left clicking on the gem pool. The Dai Oni pretty much wants a shield and regen. The sword he comes with is better than a lot of forged swords at any level and certainly better than anything you make level 0. As far as thugging him goes, self-buffs are much more important than gear on the Dai Oni chassis. Summon Earthpower is critical, and then one or two buffs that fit his paths. Storm Power only works in a Storm, as you may have found out. You got off Mistform anyway thanks to using an Air Gem. The big battle on the Berytos fort: You're carrying all your gems on your big commanders, which isn't really ideal, where you really want them are on commanders with a good chance to retreat like a magicless Commander. High hp guys are actually more likely to be targeted by mages and can be specifically targeted with army scripting. Didn't matter in this battle because you didn't have a retreat province, but it's always a consideration. As for why your Dai Oni ended up in melee, he didn't have any after-script orders like Cast Spells. So he defaulted to his Throw Flames ranged attack, and then once he was out of ammo ran in. Without after script orders Dom4 seems to try to interpret based on the unit, so you really need to set such things, especially as compared to Dom3 where scriptless commanders are more predictable. As to why you actually lost the battle, you were badly outnumbered in troop gold value. He had a bunch of sacreds to go with his mages and infantry. In particular, you had barely any archers for a flaming arrows tactic. Another 40 archers at the low cost of 320 gold would have put the battle into the winnable column.
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Sep 15, 2013 06:24
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Great, Dom4 comes out while I still have a year of crappy, no downloads internet left for me.  So my favorite Dom3 nations was Marverni and Agartha. You already went over how Agartha has been made even more terrible. But I heard Marverni's druids are now slow recruit and capital only? Did they get any buffs to make up for this? Their troops are decent enough, but certainly can't hold up the nation on their own.
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Sep 15, 2013 08:50
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User0015 posted:According to the thread, Dom4 has massive UI/Quality of Life improvements. How does it handle win conditions? Previous win conditions are still available as choices, but there's a new one, that is now the default/standard: Thrones. They are similar to victory points (need a certain number to win, they spawn in provinces shown to all players), but they have some key differences - Requires a H3 or higher spellcaster (e.g. your prophet), or a pretender, to 'claim' the throne (a month action taken once - until the throne is claimed by a different faction after they conquer it). - Thrones give benefits. Some give minor benefits unclaimed (e.g. a gem/turn), they all give benefits that scale to the throne's point worth when claimed; These bonuses include: Recruitable units in that province with decent (2+) access to two or more paths, Massive gem income, Scale changes/benefits, Bonuses for sacred troops while blessed inc. standard bless effects and more obscure stuff like poison resistance or even awe. All thrones seem to spread dominion, though some are better at it than others. This being the new default should encourage final games where the struggles is focused on taking and holding key thrones, and makes taking the provinces take at least 1 turn longer than VP provinces (because of the required action from a prophet or other H3 or pretender). It should also be noted that forts can be improved to make sieging more difficult/longer, and give forts various neat bonuses.
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Sep 15, 2013 09:25
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Slaan posted:Great, Dom4 comes out while I still have a year of crappy, no downloads internet left for me. Dom3 Druids are now Elder Druids- stat-wise they are basically the same and are now mm1, Cap-Only and slow to recruit. Dom4 Marverni's (new, non-elder) Druids are E1 S1 with 1 random EWSN.
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Sep 15, 2013 09:29
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Well, that's not too bad. Fewer guys being able to immediately cast big rear end battle spells sucks, but having all those extra communion slaves will be nice to have. Guess I finally need to be able to figure out communions. Also, mm1? Don't know what that stands for. Also, what does the early Machaka look like? Is it basically lion tribe guys with even better wizards?
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Sep 15, 2013 09:35
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Slaan posted:Well, that's not too bad. Fewer guys being able to immediately cast big rear end battle spells sucks, but having all those extra communion slaves will be nice to have. Guess I finally need to be able to figure out communions. mm1 = map move 1, although moving around the map is even harder now for everyone regardless of map move, really. EA Machaka is a collection of clans. Lion Tribe guys are your formation fighters, your elephant-commanding Voice of Lion N1 priests, and I guess technically the King and Queen- diverse FEN casters with focus on Nature/Fire paths, respectively. Hyena clan are your cowardly scummy guys, the best non-slow-to-recruit researchers right off the bat are Hyena, but they also have Heretic and Raise Unrest, so you can't flood your cap with them. They provide reliably strong earth/death magic on a guy with a forge bonus who can also shape-change into a sneaky Hyena. Spider clan troops have poisoned tipped-weapons on their warriors & archers but are cap only. Also Spider Rider troops. Their slow-to-recruit mage can potentially have very high focused paths but they're really random. Also they have a spy, Voice of Spider, which is still pretty rare in EA and is necessary for infiltrating enemy caps in order to get graph info. Rhino clan is represented by a single highly durable warrior, but they don't have the formation ability like Lion clan's warriors do. (Line Formations are really cool). Bird clan is represented by a single troop type: Archers that have exceptional range and precision. Could be really good with a Machakan Queen casting Fire Arrows, I think. And finally there are high morale Elephants. They have even higher morale if placed under the command of a 80 gold 1N 1H Voice of Lion. edit: And most Machakan troops and many mages have map move 3 (because Zulus can Run -RUN- 50 miles and fight a battle at the end of it!), which is incredible if you can find 3 plains provinces linked together. edit2: And their sacred troops are really big warriors who wear little armor and carry the Machakan equivalent of a cattle prod, I guess. Very expensive and cap only. Victor Vermis fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 09:47
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Great Gray Shrike posted:- Thrones give benefits. Some give minor benefits unclaimed (e.g. a gem/turn), they all give benefits that scale to the throne's point worth when claimed; These bonuses include: Recruitable units in that province with decent (2+) access to two or more paths, Massive gem income, Scale changes/benefits, Bonuses for sacred troops while blessed inc. standard bless effects and more obscure stuff like poison resistance or even awe. All thrones seem to spread dominion, though some are better at it than others. Important detail: Those scales changes are not allways good.
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Sep 15, 2013 10:04
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Death and heat seem to be particularly common throne dominion effects. The dominion spread is particularly handy, and, of course, collecting them all wins you the game. That's a pretty huge benefit.
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Sep 15, 2013 11:11
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Slaan posted:Great, Dom4 comes out while I still have a year of crappy, no downloads internet left for me. The huge thing to note is that everyone's mages are now slow to recruit and cap only. Getting a fantastic communion mage like the lower tier Druid in compensation is infinitely more compensation than most other nations got. So it's very difficult to judge a nation by comparing it to their Dom3 peers, because in Dom4 things are very different. I've actually warmed considerably to Slow To Recruit because I like what it does to my gold income: you can now afford cap mages much more easily while having bursty gold income to stick down poo poo tons of forts every other turn.
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Sep 15, 2013 14:39
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TheDemon posted:The huge thing to note is that everyone's mages are now slow to recruit and cap only. Getting a fantastic communion mage like the lower tier Druid in compensation is infinitely more compensation than most other nations got. So it's very difficult to judge a nation by comparing it to their Dom3 peers, because in Dom4 things are very different. Well, from my understanding you could've done the same in Dom3, by not recruiting a mage every turn in your cap.
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Sep 15, 2013 15:00
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Yeah, but it's balanced in Dom4 because I'm not setting myself behind other nations when I build a slow to rec mage, because they're in the same boat with their slow-to-rec. e: And I DID skip mage recruitment for forts in Dom3 all the time. But in particular there's a neat rhythm to getting the gold for your first str mage, then the next turn being able to afford your first fort, then subsequent turns similar things with the lab and temple. It's not really a "this is better" but more "this feels right" because everything just clicks into place early game.
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Sep 15, 2013 15:02
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Income is kind of burstier now in Dom4 with the addition of all the new events. Even if you have max Order and events set to rare, you'll still get a lot more events than in Dom3.
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Sep 15, 2013 16:02
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I like Slow to Recruit for mages. I do not at all like Slow to Recruit for troops. Why the gently caress are Jotun Skinshifters STR? Yeah, they're good, but they're not "you can only recruit one every other turn" good. Neither are Ur's Sirrushes. I really doubt Hydras are actually that good, either. The problem with STR troops as I see it is really that troops have a fairly limited window of usefulness in Dominions and making key troops STR just basically means that you have no opportunity to use them. By the time you've gathered enough Skinshifters to be useful against indies, you've already got a dozen provinces. By the time you've got enough to fight other players' armies, they're fielding summons.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:27
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Great Gray Shrike posted:Previous win conditions are still available as choices, but there's a new one, that is now the default/standard: Thrones. They are similar to victory points (need a certain number to win, they spawn in provinces shown to all players), but they have some key differences So in theory a nation trailing in last place with the fewest provinces could teleport a few scs to each of the thrones along with a h3 priest and then claim them that turn winning the game if the other player doesnt have anything to teleport there the next turn? Assuming claiming thrones occurs after battles in the turn generation order?
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Sep 15, 2013 18:34
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If no one's bothered to fort them or defend them in any way, yeah, but you could do that with Victory Points in Dom3 and there wouldn't even be opportunity for a counterstrike.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:38
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:50 |
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I updated my Hawaii mod thing. http://www.mediafire.com/?bgizs112dh26cq8
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Sep 15, 2013 18:38
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