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What the hell is wrong with you people? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 12, 2013 10:11
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 10:00 |
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It's very interesting, the whole "Prophet predicted this" angle. It provides a way for people to set up ambushes for Booker and Elizabeth without necessarily putting Columbia on alert about what's happened. ...it also makes me wonder about just how much the Prophet saw, and what he felt when he was putting people in place to fail and, presumably, die.
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Sep 12, 2013 10:53
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Glazius posted:...it also makes me wonder about just how much the Prophet saw, and what he felt when he was putting people in place to fail and, presumably, die.
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Sep 12, 2013 10:58
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Yeah. He stated earlier that each and every soldier under his command would walk to their death without question because he saw their fates and ultimate reward.
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Sep 12, 2013 11:36
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GenHavoc posted:
It's provably and absolutely wrong. They're sexist as poo poo and I've explained why. The fact that you focus on one script typo to the exclusion of every other line of dialogue in the game, and the female cops, which again I can't explain until after it's no longer a spoiler, vs everything said about women, by women, and shown of women, in the rest of the game is getting absurd. Please, you don't need to take every time someone disagrees with you, as a physical assault against your mother. I'm trying to help you here. Since the game had a misleading typo, and since Sundowner missed some things, I'm trying to save you a lot of time. You received incorrect information, you drew incorrect assumptions from it, and are basing further incorrect assumptions on those. Trust people who have played the entire game numerous times, over your incomplete, hurried first two hours of a let's play, there is no anachronistic, progressive women's equality part of Columbian society. You can now go back to speculating about things that are actually in the game.
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Sep 12, 2013 19:52
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I don't pretend that this particular line of discussion has gotten a bit out of hand, but really, this is speculation from people who don't know about the game. Shutting it down by saying "this is wrong and the reason will be obvious later" is the worst response to it. It is speculation, based only on what we've been shown so far. Of course much of what is said will be wrong. I don't see how it should be expected to not be. The point is to talk about the questions that are being raised by this particular playthrough; the same questions that we'd have if we were playing it. The fact that we might not have seen something (even if it was theoretically available and 'missed' by Sundowner) reflects on the game, not on our faults as speculators. And we have at least some examples of dissonance: one mother says a girl shouldn't be a scientist despite the fact that the most celebrated scientist in Columbia is a woman. Women are on the police force (including a woman issuing commands on the loudspeaker) without it being much of an issue, and there are the possible examples on the beach or other locations with women being unescorted. Exactly whether this is inconsistent with American society of 1912, or in the game simply to cater to modern sensibilities, or something that will be confirmed/denied by later developments is a valid topic for thought, at least to this point.
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Sep 12, 2013 20:21
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Yeah, let's not tell people they can't continue to speculate and discuss things with the little context they have been given so far just because you disagree/have played it before. I've already asked people not to confirm or deny speculation until the game clears it up. You've expressed that "it will make sense later" which not only violates my request but it curbs any worthwhile conversation the thread might have even if it ends up completely wrong.
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Sep 12, 2013 20:29
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Louispul5 posted:It's provably and absolutely wrong. They're sexist as poo poo and I've explained why. The fact that you focus on one script typo to the exclusion of every other line of dialogue in the game, and the female cops, which again I can't explain until after it's no longer a spoiler, vs everything said about women, by women, and shown of women, in the rest of the game is getting absurd. I have explained, in as much detail as I can, my reasons for thinking as I do, concerning Columbia's stance on women, and the points I made go beyond simply the misogyny line and the female cops. I cited Lutece, the beachgoers, lines of dialog we heard before and after the fair. And though I have every confidence that you are correct about the ultimate nature of Columbian society, the evidence you have cited is based on conversations we have not seen, and events in the game we have not arrived at yet. I cannot possibly use evidence I haven't seen when producing speculative guesses as to where the game is going. If that means that all of my speculations are wrong, even provably so, then so be it. I'm not doing this to demonstrate my psychic powers, just as an amusement to see if I can guess where the game is actually going. So far, I feel that the evidence, whatever it winds up doing, has been pushing in the direction of a more nuanced gender standard in Columbia, whether that winds up actually being the case or not. And it is neither an attack on you, nor being a defensive sperglord, to say so. If you want to debate the evidence I've presented thus far, please do so. I don't pretend that my conclusions are perfect. But once again, I will ask you to stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is just being defensive or fanning their own ego. I'm not doing this just to "save face", I'm doing it because it's what I think. And when you tell me I haven't got the right to think that based on evidence I haven't seen, then there's nothing for me to do except explain my reasons for thinking this way, at this point. If you have finished the game, and I have not, then you obviously know more about Columbia than I do. But I'm not trying to argue what Columbia objectively is or is not. I'm trying to argue what it looks like so far, at least to me. What it looks like is, by necessity, going to be a matter of perspective. As my speculations are based on incomplete data, many of them are indeed going to be speculating on things that are not in the game. As far as I can see it, this is unavoidable. Nor do I think it's a particularly bad thing. Obviously, if Sundowner or others disagree, then I'll stop. But as they've been encouraging me to continue with these speculative ramblings, I don't see any need to restrict myself to topics that I'm provably right on. I did call them "Wildly Unsupported Theories", after all. On another note, concerning the length of my walls-o-text, I will try harder to concatenate the various entries based on what happens later in the same video, but unfortunately, I didn't realize the Sauerkraut thing was related to the ambush, even after the ambush took place. As such, I thought the question as to why the hot dog buyer was acting so weird was still open, at least until I read everyone else's analysis. Obviously, my powers of observation are not exactly world-class in all respects. But insofar as I can just attach edit riders to each point as it becomes better illuminated, I will try to do so. Hopefully that'll keep people's eyes from glazing over when they try to read these things. GenHavoc fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 02:06
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GenHavoc, Louispul5 is almost certainly going to respond to you. I humbly request that you ignore him. All possible points have been made. And don't feel like you have to trim your walls o' text. Unless they're on this subject. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 13, 2013 02:47
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Indeed. This argument has been going around in circles for several pages and it would be best for all to agree to disagree before it becomes a complete derail. Let's go back to people's speculation on the craziness that is Binfinite's plot. Those are fun to read!
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Sep 13, 2013 03:21
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I'm mostly just surprised that nobody at Battleship Bay heard all of the explosions and screaming from Booker's prior fight. It's not like there's a lot of solid construction in the way to block the sound.
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Sep 13, 2013 04:38
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GenHavoc, speculation is fine but can you not use a Let's Play thread to create some kind of elaborate mental scenario for how poo poo goes and just puke it in thread? Post things that directly relate to ongoing content.
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Sep 13, 2013 04:57
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Zorak posted:GenHavoc, speculation is fine but can you not use a Let's Play thread to create some kind of elaborate mental scenario for how poo poo goes and just puke it in thread? Post things that directly relate to ongoing content. GenHavoc posted:I didn't realize the Sauerkraut thing was related to the ambush, even after the ambush took place. Kangra posted:dissonance... or in the game simply to cater to modern sensibilities Anyway, maybe it's really obvious, but I just realized Columbia being something like three miles up doesn't seem to have any effects whatsoever, even though there's no way people should be able to breathe, never mind one from the surface. It could be that's what the baptism does, but if the whole place is in some magic science bubble it'd also explain temperature, wind, birds, and whatever - it's easy to forget given how normal they try to make everything look, but Columbia needs tons of weirdness to stay in one piece, not to mention stay in the air. If so, pretty big coincidence if that and the time/dimension weirdness isn't one and the same. How much does Comstock know - is this why he really stole the place? Really wondering how genuine his whole deal is now. Or maybe it's just a show, I should really just relax. 
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Sep 13, 2013 06:25
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OG17 posted:it's easy to forget given how normal they try to make everything look, but Columbia needs tons of weirdness to stay in one piece, not to mention stay in the air. The same could be said of Rapture which I'm pretty sure was all sorts of logistically and practically impossible, but big underwater libertarian metropolises are cool so there you go. I don't think there's likely to be any more in-depth examination of how Columbia and its citizens manage to exist day to day than there was in Bioshock. Not trying to curtail speculation and hey, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet that it never really comes up and it's basically one of those things that you're just sort of expected to accept along with the magic tonics that let you throw fireballs and send crows out to eat people. What's important isn't how Columbia works, what's important is what Columbia does. In this case it acts as a concentrated allegory for American exceptionalism as a place that literally exists above other nations, built upon and surrounded by wondrous things that reinforce the narrative of unbridled progress and the idea that Columbia is something, well, exceptional.
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Sep 13, 2013 09:47
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Forgall posted:I disagree. I like GenHavoc's "live" reactions. It's like having co-commentator on LP who hasn't played the game before, which is something I personally enjoy. Gonna be honest: I don't read GenHavoc's long-winded brain diarrhea. Edit that poo poo, son.
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Sep 13, 2013 10:18
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On a more light-hearted note, I liked the part in the last video where you stopped to snarf down three cones of cotton candy while two women just looked on wordlessly. It was just a picture-perfect shot of how people would react in real life.
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Sep 13, 2013 13:56
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Booker's had a long day, okay? Dude deserves a treat.
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Sep 13, 2013 14:37
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Honestly the best way to explain the weirdness and implausibility of anything in Columbia is because a Quantum Physics wizard did it. 
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Sep 13, 2013 17:09
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Hey here's a cool thing I found! Edit: I reuploaded it to imgur to avoid image leaching. Thunderfinger fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 13, 2013 |
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Sep 13, 2013 19:13
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Cardiovorax posted:On a more light-hearted note, I liked the part in the last video where you stopped to snarf down three cones of cotton candy while two women just looked on wordlessly. It was just a picture-perfect shot of how people would react in real life. The, thankfully, short lived meme of this that sprung up was absolutely delightful in how absurd it was. Also somewhat reminiscent of garbage can burgers of Starbound in that Booker will not think twice about eating that sandwich and pear thrown away in the bin.
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Sep 13, 2013 20:25
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Thunderfinger posted:Hey here's a cool thing I found! That's some nice Teefury art? (by which I mean it's lazy reference-centric work) I'm really waiting for Elizabeth and Booker to actually have a chance to talk. They've pretty much only ever had time to have short exchanges before something fun and new distracts Elizabeth, or someone tries to kill Booker.
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Sep 13, 2013 21:22
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Ulvirich posted:The, thankfully, short lived meme of this that sprung up was absolutely delightful in how absurd it was. Also somewhat reminiscent of garbage can burgers of Starbound in that Booker will not think twice about eating that sandwich and pear thrown away in the bin. Heathen! It is delightfully absurd however, you got that right. Or the ammo strewn all over the place, thrown in garbage cans. In fact I want a game to find a way to justify this some day and have ammo in trash bins actually have defects like decreased accuracy. Also food that doesn't heal you as much because you got it out of the drat garbage.
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Sep 14, 2013 05:31
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I just blasted through the game in two sittings. I'm kinda in a dark place, the kind where you just kinda sit there and think about... well everything. I'll be keeping up with this LP because it is incredibly easy to miss vital voxes, but at the same time... from a story telling sense, you could listen to none and be satisfied. The slow pace is good for this game, I think. It is one that warrants in depth discussion and analysis.
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Sep 14, 2013 07:12
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Weird BIAS posted:Heathen! It was late ok?!  Earthbound rather!While for the most part I liked the feel of the various weapons, there were a couple of points I didn't particularly enjoy, especially since you can easily compare one of those with Bioshock 1/2's implementation. Since the LP hasn't gotten to any of those two points, I can't say much other than that at this time.
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Sep 14, 2013 07:23
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Weird BIAS posted:Heathen! Metro 2033 sort of does this with ammunition. Basically there are two types of bullets, "dirty" rounds which are old, corroded, crappy, shoddy self-loads, etc. that still fire but are lower damage and you have military-grade rounds which are nice and clean and new and have better damage but are also rarer. Bullets are also currency with military-grade ammo being more valuable which means you have to choose between using it as ammunition for the damage boost or using them for sweet, sweet barter (I believe you can cash in dirty rounds too but they're worth less, naturally).
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Sep 14, 2013 07:27
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Edit: Christ, I put this in totally the wrong thread.
George fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Sep 14, 2013 |
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Sep 14, 2013 09:35
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George posted:It's not a sword, but anything with high execution chance should be called Terminus Est. Only if you get a nice
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Sep 14, 2013 10:54
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Weird BIAS posted:Heathen! Pathologic had a pretty cool system - all the stuff you could find in garbage bins was worthless, but you could trade the various trinkets with easily impressed children and drunkards for useful items. Regular merchants, on the other hands, wouldn't touch your rubbish treasures.
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Sep 14, 2013 11:31
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I say let him do his thing with his every 15 seconds commentary. If he wants to write it let him write. You don't want to read his giant block of text you don't HAVE to read it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 14, 2013 18:45
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I never played BInfinite before, but it seems to me to combine the better parts of 1 and 2. It has the story and setting on a quality more similar to 1, while having combat and a more emotional connection from 2. I know that around the end of the first or second area in 2 I wanted to shove a drill through Sophia Lamb's stupid face, since she had taken my daughter, and it seems like Liz here would inspire the same sort of response. Also as someone who hasn't played through before, I like GenHavoc's posts, they bring up points I would have missed by not being an American or music buff. He's using what we've seen in the videos to speculate, which is all that those who haven't played the game before can do. If you don't like his posts, please feel free to add him to your ignore list/scroll past his posts/press space or page down a couple times. As it stands, I don't believe there is any reason to believe that the misogynist line was a typo at this point in time. Like, really, nothing we've actually seen so far has gone against it. There has been talk over how something that comes up later proves it was a typo, but since we haven't come to that point yet, I have no real reason to believe that it was a typo (spoken as well) in a product as polished as this.
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Sep 14, 2013 22:17
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my dad posted:Only if you get a nice Better snag the Claw of the Conciliator to go along with the cloak and the Line of Division. Content: I'm loving this LP and the way it is being presented. I feel that the way the game treats some the seedier aspects of the USA's rise to power is worlds better than what is taught in school. It wasn't until having read some of the commentary in this thread that I realized the Irish weren't considered "white". I always kind of had a suspicion that the term "white" as we use it describes more of a mental state or a philosophy than someone's appearance, but this seems to confirm it. Can someone be white but not be "white"?
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Sep 15, 2013 06:04
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Claven666 posted:Can someone be white but not be "white"? Are you familiar with the "one drop" rule?
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Sep 15, 2013 07:10
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Kai Tave posted:Are you familiar with the "one drop" rule? Dunno about Klaven, but I'm not. What's it all about? Judging from the title, I'd suppose it'd have something to do with hanging? Ashsaber posted:As it stands, I don't believe there is any reason to believe that the misogynist line was a typo at this point in time. Like, really, nothing we've actually seen so far has gone against it. There has been talk over how something that comes up later proves it was a typo, but since we haven't come to that point yet, I have no real reason to believe that it was a typo (spoken as well) in a product as polished as this. Well, like people have been saying, Comstock's Columbia has a flavour of it's own; it isn't just a pastiche of our 19th century stereotypes.
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Sep 15, 2013 07:23
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Claven666 posted:Can someone be white but not be "white"? If a reason must be found for one man to hate another man he feels must be hated, a reason will be found no matter how twisted the logic.
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Sep 15, 2013 07:26
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CommissarMega posted:Dunno about Klaven, but I'm not. What's it all about? Judging from the title, I'd suppose it'd have something to do with hanging? The one drop rule is if anyone in your family tree was ever not white, you're not white either, regardless what you look like.
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Sep 15, 2013 07:29
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RBA Starblade posted:The one drop rule is if anyone in your family tree was ever not white, you're not white either, regardless what you look like. But aren't the Irish all white in skin colour? I know it's dumb to apply logic to racism, but what manner of convoluted reason made the Irish not-white in the eyes of racists?
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Sep 15, 2013 07:37
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CommissarMega posted:But aren't the Irish all white in skin colour? I know it's dumb to apply logic to racism, but what manner of convoluted reason made the Irish not-white in the eyes of racists?
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Sep 15, 2013 07:41
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CommissarMega posted:But aren't the Irish all white in skin colour? I know it's dumb to apply logic to racism, but what manner of convoluted reason made the Irish not-white in the eyes of racists? If you weren't from England, France, or a handful of other countries, and if your bloodline wasn't "pure" you weren't white. Ireland wasn't one of those countries for a long time, and the Irish were seen as closer to blacks than whites (but a little better). The definition of what was and was not white has expanded over the years mostly out of political necessity. A lot of people in the US would also think Italians are white, but this wasn't historically true either. The extra fun thing about this in the US is that as new waves of immigrants rolled in and wars went on, the last wave would become more socially accepted and the new one reviled, so the hate train would keep on rolling. Everyone in the US in the 19th century hated everyone else. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 07:41
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CommissarMega posted:But aren't the Irish all white in skin colour? I know it's dumb to apply logic to racism, but what manner of convoluted reason made the Irish not-white in the eyes of racists? http://theaporetic.com/?p=54 In the USA, for a long time, the Irish were considered "colored" and this blog has a scan of a marriage certificate between two Irish people in Virginia in 1884 wherein they were classified as "colored" when it came to their race. In fact, with regards to the one-drop rule, the system required that children with parents who are suspected to be negro would need to be marked early so they couldn't attempt to "pass," and the people the state hired to enforce these rules were often very motivated by their work:  Keep in mind, this was 1923: The child mentioned in Plecker's letter could still be alive. bassguitarhero fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 07:46
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 10:00 |
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RBA Starblade posted:The one drop rule is if anyone in your family tree was ever not white, you're not white either, regardless what you look like. To elaborate on this, the one drop rule was an actual no-fooling piece of 20th century American legislation that classified anyone as a "negro" if they had any African ancestry whatsoever. Were you 1/64th black on your umpteenth great-grandwhatever's side? Get in line with the other coloreds, darkie. It was first adopted in Tennessee in 1910 and other states (largely the southern ones for some reason) followed suit. Prior to this the legal definition of "negro-hood" for lack of a better word was more relaxed (sort of), usually requiring more than one-quarter African ancestry (though it could be one-eighth depending on the state) and if you "looked white enough" then you had an easier time simply integrating into white communities without any complaints. quote:The eugenicist Madison Grant of New York wrote in his book, The Passing of the Great Race (1916): "The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a Negro is a Negro; the cross between a white man and a Hindu is a Hindu; and the cross between any of the three European races and a Jew is a Jew." Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 15, 2013 |
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Sep 15, 2013 07:47
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