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shrike82 posted:Any thoughts on INSEAD/LBS versus the top US schools? I've literally just started my first period at INSEAD - I'm an American who chose here over anything in the US. I'd honestly say you really need to think about where you want to be - if you're looking to keep your options open, the US schools may be better since the INSEAD name isn't as well-known back stateside as it is elsewhere. LBS is better on that front. If you're looking to be in Europe, I think you benefit greatly from being over here. We've got both the Singapore and France campuses depending on where you'd wanna be, but just the ability to be on the ground will be a big benefit. For me, the decision was (1) wanting to be in Europe and (2) the 10-month program and weighing getting back into the workforce sooner. If you do choose over here, PM me - pretty swamped as the program starts, but would be happy to talk some more about everything.
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Sep 3, 2013 12:11
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Ephemeron posted:Do schools look at graduate/postgraduate degree, or is the first university degree the one that matters? You are in luck! From my experience Grad school is all that matters. I was in the same boat, I had an average undergrad record but did very very well in Grad School. Only thing that came up in interviews afterwards was MBA GPA and class rank. Now that being said getting a top rank in Grad School is no walk in the park your classmates are likely to also be smart and motivated and the subject matter more difficult. The hard part about MBA GPA is the variety of subject matter, it is tough to be good at all the soft and hard skill classes and takes time and effort to go for a top GPA.
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Sep 4, 2013 15:32
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J4Gently posted:You are in luck! Most top MBAs don't allow you to disclose grades or class rank (which is awesome for 90% of people).
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Sep 6, 2013 07:24
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Swingline posted:Most top MBAs don't allow you to disclose grades or class rank (which is awesome for 90% of people). Really, I have not heard of that? How do they prevent you from disclosing your academic record, particularly when employers will specifically ask you. That type of policy might be great for the 90% but would be a disservice, and a competitive disadvantage to the top #1 through 10%.
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Sep 6, 2013 13:29
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Smeef posted:I crushed the GMAT (770, 99th percentile) Tell me your secrets
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Sep 6, 2013 14:18
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pizzaman5000 posted:Tell me your secrets Did a practice exam and some problems in a book, which helped me pinpoint which areas I'd completely forgotten since high school. Then brushed up on those areas (mainly powers, probability and combinations). Then did some more problems followed by 2 practice exams in the days before I took the real test. Nothing special, really. I surveyed a few of the books/programs, and in my opinion the Economist online software and the GMAT official software are the best. I only trialed the Economist and didn't finish the GMAT official problems, but the paper books just sucked and on top of that they don't accurately portray the test environment.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:08
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How's the GMAT math compared to GRE? And is it like the GRE in that you can't revisit questions?
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Sep 7, 2013 04:14
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VideoTapir posted:How's the GMAT math compared to GRE? Harder math, easier verbal, equally stupid essay section, and a new "integrated reasoning" part that is basically about interpreting graphs and tables. The types of questions in math and verbal are a little different, too, but there is still a lot of overlap. It's adaptive, so the more answers you get correct, the harder the questions become. You can't revisit questions.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:27
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J4Gently posted:Really, I have not heard of that? Indeed that was the policy at Wharton (and Harvard, Stanford & Kellogg also, possibly others) while I was there. Note though that the policy only applied to your grades at Wharton MBA, employers were free to ask about your undergrad grades, GMAT, academic awards, etc. However, most would rely on their own recruiting processes to identify who they liked (and vice versa). Also, at Wharton getting an interview wasn't particularly difficult. Even if you weren't on a company's initial selection list, you could usually finangle your way on by networking with a former employee in your class or chatting with their on-campus recruiting team. (Some schools had an "open slot bidding system" for a certain portion of interview slots. Wharton only used bidding for classes, never seemed necessary for interviews.) As for your scepticism about people following the grade non disclosure policy, the grading system is not numerical, and so does not lend itself to convenient summaries like GPA. More importantly, everyone who participates in on-campus recruiting knows what the school's policy is, why the rationale exists and what the penalties for breaking them are. Other than a couple of first-round I-banking analysts, no-one ever asked me about my grades at Wharton at all, and they backed off as soon as I pointed out to them that they were not allowed to ask. (Given the "ok, check" reaction I got, my hunch is that those were trap questions to see if I would break the rules.) It probably sounds naive or arrogant if you haven't been through the process, but the hard part about these types of MBA programs really is getting in. Once you're there, everyone knows you're "smart enough" and recruiters are much more focused about whether you fit with their particular firm.
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Sep 7, 2013 04:37
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Smeef posted:Harder math, easier verbal... The types of questions in math and verbal are a little different, too Although I thought when I took the GRE that it was adaptive, but that's been a while.
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Sep 7, 2013 10:46
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Oliax posted:Indeed that was the policy at Wharton (and Harvard, Stanford & Kellogg also, possibly others) while I was there. Note though that the policy only applied to your grades at Wharton MBA, employers were free to ask about your undergrad grades, GMAT, academic awards, etc. However, most would rely on their own recruiting processes to identify who they liked (and vice versa). Also, at Wharton getting an interview wasn't particularly difficult. Even if you weren't on a company's initial selection list, you could usually finangle your way on by networking with a former employee in your class or chatting with their on-campus recruiting team. (Some schools had an "open slot bidding system" for a certain portion of interview slots. Wharton only used bidding for classes, never seemed necessary for interviews.) Not Scepticism just experience, and backed up by the facts. (see link to Wharton below) I had my MBA background discussed, and I work with plenty of people from the Whartons, HBS etc... they all went through their backgrounds as well. I have interviewed plenty of folks from top programs they discussed their backgrounds. Though some did cite this policy and that is a bit of a red flag. So when the gentleman above asks whether a very good performance in his MBA can help him the answer is YES Your answer did not help him, it was discouraging and just plain wrong. So Again Ephemeron Yes you can use that 3.9 MBA GPA and awesome class rank to vault ahead of people, even folks who went to "better" schools. From the Wharton website: http://employer.wharton.upenn.edu/recruiting/interview_policies.cfm quote:Wharton Grade Non-Disclosure HBS http://www.alumni.hbs.edu/bulletin/2006/march/ib_disclosure.html quote:"Fundamentally, I believe it is inappropriate for HBS to dictate to students what they can and cannot say about their grades during the recruiting process,” Light wrote. “I believe you and your classmates earn your grades and should be accountable for them, as you will be accountable for your performance in the organizations you will lead in the future.” Under the new policy, students have the option to authorize the School to release their transcripts to potential employers. From what I gather the Non-disclosure is a student created "referendum" (My personal commentary: voted on by a majority to protect the majority). Oliax posted:As a Wharton alum I honestly share a certain snootiness toward the European schools. In my mind Wharton/Stanford/HBS are "better" (whatever that means). J4Gently fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 7, 2013 |
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Sep 7, 2013 15:56
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Small White Dragon posted:I agree with this assessment. The new GRE is adaptive between sections, but not within sections. I.e. once you lock in your answers to the first set of questions, which you can revisit/skip/revise until you click 'submit' for the section, it then determines the difficultly of the next section you get.
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Sep 7, 2013 18:40
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Oliax posted:Indeed that was the policy at Wharton (and Harvard, Stanford & Kellogg also, possibly others) while I was there. Note though that the policy only applied to your grades at Wharton MBA, employers were free to ask about your undergrad grades, GMAT, academic awards, etc. However, most would rely on their own recruiting processes to identify who they liked (and vice versa). Also, at Wharton getting an interview wasn't particularly difficult. Even if you weren't on a company's initial selection list, you could usually finangle your way on by networking with a former employee in your class or chatting with their on-campus recruiting team. (Some schools had an "open slot bidding system" for a certain portion of interview slots. Wharton only used bidding for classes, never seemed necessary for interviews.) I'm applying to Wharton and am interested in hearing your thoughts on the cultural. Obviously it's an extraordinary school, but I've from several people there is some weird HBS/Stanford complex going on there, since many of the students are also applicants to the other two, and Wharton is typically considered a little behind the HBS/Stanford in the HSW classification. Interested in learning if this is true or not, and your own personal thoughts on this...
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Sep 7, 2013 22:03
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J4Gently posted:So Again Ephemeron Yes you can use that 3.9 MBA GPA and awesome class rank to vault ahead of people, even folks who went to "better" schools. At the moment, I don't have an MBA, although I'd really like to get one. I have a bachelor's degree in law with a GPA of 2.5 and a master's (also in law) with a GPA of 3.9. What I need to know is whether a business school would be willing to consider my application, or whether I'd get dismissed out of hand on the basis of lovely bachelor's GPA.
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Sep 8, 2013 18:14
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Ephemeron posted:Sorry for confusion. Let me clarify: I had a 2.8 in econ in undergrad, a 3.3 in law school, and I'm now at INSEAD. Good GMAT and work experience is more important (for me, 5 yrs between undergrad and law school). You can def overcome undergrad grades. /edit for spelling, first attempt at mobile post.
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Sep 9, 2013 11:50
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Ephemeron posted:Sorry for confusion. Let me clarify: I would agree with the post above you would have a good shot at getting into a reputable MBA program
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Sep 9, 2013 14:12
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Ephemeron posted:Sorry for confusion. Let me clarify: I had a 2.7 humanities GPA and a 3.6 master's GPA and got into a fringe 2nd tier school with a 75% scholarship. I had a good test score but it was GRE, and most of my prior work history was education. So I think most recent GPA matters, but even then, less than work history and test scores. Of course, if you're going farther up the ranking chain, your mileage is going to vary.
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Sep 9, 2013 14:18
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Ephemeron posted:Sorry for confusion. Let me clarify: Admissions don't disqualify based upon 1 category, but look at the overall package. Make sure when you apply that your program allows your GPA within its minimum. If it's close, disclose a reason why it's low in your statement of purpose and explain that when you went to get your master's you took school seriously and got a great GPA! Your GMAT and work history will help offset the low undergrad GPA. A "low score" in one area will not disqualify you immediately. I got into a top-tier program with a 440 GMAT score because I had a 3.5 GPA and 8 years working experience in related fields of where I wanted to end up. My Statement of Purpose was also dead-on for the program - i modeled it after the department's mission statement and explained why I wanted the degree. I'm now four weeks into my first semester and it's great. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do (math is terrible and I'm in accounting & econ right now), but it's so rewarding because while I'm struggling I'm still learning so much.
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Sep 15, 2013 18:35
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lolercoasterrr posted:I'm applying to Wharton and am interested in hearing your thoughts on the cultural. Obviously it's an extraordinary school, but I've from several people there is some weird HBS/Stanford complex going on there, since many of the students are also applicants to the other two, and Wharton is typically considered a little behind the HBS/Stanford in the HSW classification. Interested in learning if this is true or not, and your own personal thoughts on this... It's a great place and - with the benefit of 15 years of hind-sight - I certainly think the tuition money was an excellent investment. I don't really recall there being any sort of "complex" vis-a-vis HBS/Stanford or any other top school (Which honestly are also all excellent schools. But half the fun of being an alum of any school is having rivals to compete with. Hence the popularity of various rating websites and publications.) That said, there certainly are stereotypes about the schools, which students from other schools - who really don't know, since they didn't go there - merrily re-enforce. For example: HBS - Elitists who think they are better than everyone else, because well it IS Harvard after all; but don't actually know how to open Excel. Stanford - Folks who like to pretend that they are hip and cool by wearing Birkenstock's to class, while drinking organic tea and soy milk; but secretly wish they were wearing Brooks Brother's pinstripes and drinking a deli coffee from a greek cup. After all, if they WERE that cool, they would be doing their own start-up, not going to business school. Wharton - Smart people, but often lacking in morals, empathy or compassion. Can't really quibble with this when Michael Milliken, Ivan Boesky and Raj Rajaratnam are all among your alumni.  Chicago - Smart people, lacking in empathy, compassion and feelings, who prefer nifty theoretical concepts to the real world. Michigan - Smart people, strong in empathy, compassion, morals and general emotional intelligence who will try harder than any of the above and do it for less, because, well it's still Michigan.  ... I think you get the idea. If you get into any of the top-tier schools, go you won't regret it. If you are fortunate enough to get into more than one, treat it like you would college decisions. Visit them all, and see what appeals to you - location, instruction method, size, specialty program you are interested in.
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Sep 16, 2013 14:03
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J4Gently posted:
Grade non-disclosure is a never-ending point of contention at these schools. Most students love it, some faculty definitely hate it - leaving the administration stuck in the middle to issue carefully crafted legal notices like this one. However, these student-lead initiatives have existed at both Wharton and Harvard (and many of the other schools who have them) for over 25 years and still do. Your theory that it's the lazy majority wanting to prevent the top 10% from showing how awesome they are to recruiters through their DS in Advanced Corporate Finance, is plausible... IF you've never actually attended Wharton/HBS/etc. However, the rationale is just a little more subtle: while people attend MBA programs to get great jobs afterward, most are also coming to learn new skills. Learning new skills takes time and often involves making mistakes along the way. Since recruiters ARE fundamentally lazy (or at least perceived to be so by students), providing them with a simplistic score like "GPA" (even if it could be calculated from a 1-2-3 or DS-HP-P grading system) would discourage students from taking classes in new subjects where they would maximize their learning but probably not earn the best possible grade, and instead focus on subjects they already know in order to maximize their GPA. A set-up that does not position the students, institution or employer for long term success. When I was at Wharton (15 years ago) this policy was universally in place and supported. If you are super curious how these policies are applied today, you would probably be best off asking a more recent grad from the appropriate school. (Not sure if any of them are lurking here.) Oliax fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 16, 2013 |
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Sep 16, 2013 14:34
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copied from the internet and hence must be gospel.
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INSEAD has nondisclosure of grades, with a couple exceptions - top 10% graduate with distinction and are allowed to say so, and the top GPA wins the Ford Prize an is also allowed to disclose. We were given a presentation by the dean covering all this stuff, and the rationale here is exactly what you said, Oliax - the school doesn't want students feeling restricted from pushing their boundaries and trying new subjects at the risk of impacting GPA and job opportunities. That being said, internally grades are reported and there are requirements to receive your diploma and all that. As such, as yet I haven't seen it really impact anyone's motivation or willingness to work. I haven't heard any grumblings from students, professors or administration on the policy - support here does seem universal for it.
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Sep 17, 2013 12:19
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Oliax posted:When I was at Wharton (15 years ago) this policy was universally in place and supported. If you are super curious how these policies are applied today, you would probably be best off asking a more recent grad from the appropriate school. (Not sure if any of them are lurking here.) I've been lurking the thread for a while, but hadn't felt like posting before. I'm an evening student at Booth and it is still in place here. I like the policy. I'm not going into finance and have no background, but I still want to take some classes in it (it is Booth, after all). That would be a bad decision if my GPA were something that would affect me as I would be at a disadvantage to all the people who have been working in finance for years in my classes. As it is, I don't have to worry so much about that. Also, we have a student admissions committee here and I read applications and interview candidates. In my opinion (they don't show us the exact decision-making criteria, we're only one part of the process), the more years of experience you have the less your undergrad GPA matters. GPA has been shown to be poorly correlated at best to future performance, it's just that when you only have 2-3 years of experience it's hard to distinguish people. Once you have an actual work history separating candidates gets much easier. In Ephemeron's case I would look far more at a master's than undergrad GPA since it's a better measure of their current performance, which is really what we care about. My GPA was not good, although from a tough school, and I had no problems getting in. Although I did have a high GMAT.
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Sep 17, 2013 16:46
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Sorry if I used too many words. I think things have changed significantly in the past 15 years. A different way of looking at this. MBA Grads at the Elite schools who interviewed for IB, PE etc.. were you asked for MBA performance? did you give it? If you were top 10%, top 3 or #1 in your class would you mentioned that? Or would you take a voluntary pledge to your graduate student associate to not mention that? It is a bit of a prisoners dilemma. Schools have responded in the past decade by removing restrictions or adding rank based prizes or other distinctions which can be talked about to get around the issue.
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Sep 17, 2013 22:16
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Ephemeron posted:Sorry for confusion. Let me clarify: Assuming the master's in law is from a real school you should be fine on this dimension. In fact, may be at a slight advantage because you probably have a really interesting story to tell about how you grew up/found religion/got your poo poo together and went from a 2.5 to a 3.9. It's all in how you spin it... :-) J4Gently posted:Sorry if I used too many words. I doesn't sound like things have changed that much. At Wharton, you WERE allowed to mention any awards you won, such as winning Academic honors (top 10%) and being a Palmer Scholar (top 5%). I don't think there's a problem with that either. MBA's are by their nature competitive people, and if you want to compete on grades and succeed, more power to you. What I would advise against however, is applying the prisoner's dilemma analogy too literally and being THAT GUY who opts out of a cultural norm / collective pledge / student referendum decision, because they think doing so will give them an advantage over their sucker peers. That might work at Chicago GSB (see my earlier post), but in the real world there's a word for those folks "douche bag!" That's the guy, guys like me definitely won't hire. Why? Because if they're willing to act in a dubiously ethical manner on something like this, how will they act the first time real temptation is put in front of them? Would I trust them with confidential information? To support me in an argument? Doubt it...
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Sep 18, 2013 00:44
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Oliax posted:Assuming the master's in law is from a real school you should be fine on this dimension. In fact, may be at a slight advantage because you probably have a really interesting story to tell about how you grew up/found religion/got your poo poo together and went from a 2.5 to a 3.9. It's all in how you spin it... :-) Perhaps there is a slim piece of common ground we can reach. I'm not suggesting people be dishonest or not follow through on their word, in the past decade the requirement to take such a pledge has diminished and there are plenty of ways people can highlight their MBA achievements. Also relative performance is a factor in post MBA recruitment, at least it is at my firm seems like it is not at yours.
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Sep 18, 2013 01:44
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So accountancy has not been kind to me on this last exam. Are there any exercises online where I can check the effects of transactions on Balance Sheets and (especially) income statements? Ideally one that will just randomly throw up different accounts and transactions and let you deal all possible scenarios? I really thought I studied exhaustively for this exam and ended up with a 77 :/
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Sep 18, 2013 05:56
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actually you can use the prisoner's dilemma but you have to remember that life is more like the iterated version of the game, without a known ending. In those, it does often pay to cooperate. Sorry, totally off topic and I know thats a big simplification of a large complex subject but people always use Game theory as rationale for why everyone should behave like an rear end in a top hat but I think thats incorrect even within the bounds of fields.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:45
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Xguard86 posted:actually you can use the prisoner's dilemma but you have to remember that life is more like the iterated version of the game, without a known ending. In those, it does often pay to cooperate. It is all in how you frame the game theory question, and this single topic is played out many times from the creation of the non-disclosure pact, to the time you are sitting in that interview setting. Is this an issue of trust and following through on an agreement? Or do we look at the agreement itself as the issue, is it a form of grade socialism? Of course nothing is ever so simple and there are many other aspects like people taking easier classes(gaming the rank), not taking a broad range of subjects, willingness to take risk etc.. By the way I 100% agree with the Oliax if you have a rule or you have voluntarily agreed not to disclose your grades then you need to follow through or it will come back to bite you. My point is I don't think the benefits of such agreement outweigh the costs, and over the past decade the elite schools have shifted towards disclosure. J4Gently fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 15:09
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menino posted:So accountancy has not been kind to me on this last exam. Are there any exercises online where I can check the effects of transactions on Balance Sheets and (especially) income statements? Ideally one that will just randomly throw up different accounts and transactions and let you deal all possible scenarios? I really thought I studied exhaustively for this exam and ended up with a 77 :/ Anyone in your class really a pro at accounting, seek them out. A serious study group where different people are experts at different types of subjects (math/finance, marketing, Om, soft skills) worked well for me. The group brings everyone up to a higher level. As far as online: http://www.accountingcoach.com/online-accounting-course/14Dpg01.html http://aspnet.cob.ohio.edu/isms/cms.aspx?2155
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Sep 18, 2013 15:13
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J4Gently posted:Well we can 100% agree on the advice above for the potential guy, but I still think times are a bit different. Deal! 
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Sep 18, 2013 18:09
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Oliax posted:Assuming the master's in law is from a real school you should be fine on this dimension. In fact, may be at a slight advantage because you probably have a really interesting story to tell about how you grew up/found religion/got your poo poo together and went from a 2.5 to a 3.9. In this case, I hope that the person reviewing my application is a sucker for cheesy romantic stories, because mine is a textbook example - I met the right woman and her love magically transformed me from a sad infantile loser into a mature and dedicated professional. 
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Sep 23, 2013 09:16
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Anyone here knows of good ressources to prepare for a MBA interview? This is where I screwed up last year so I really need to impress this time.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:55
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Do any other top tier B schools have programs similar to Harvard's 2 + 2 program? (apply after undergrad, 2 years of working, then go to B school for 2 years)
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Sep 25, 2013 21:03
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rouliroul posted:Anyone here knows of good ressources to prepare for a MBA interview? This is where I screwed up last year so I really need to impress this time. Are there specific schools you're looking at, or just something generally? And are you looking for, like, a service/consultant of sorts or some info to read/message boards? I just ask because some schools have specific things to watch out for, may be more focused resources.
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Sep 28, 2013 09:52
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Poop Faerie posted:Are there specific schools you're looking at, or just something generally? And are you looking for, like, a service/consultant of sorts or some info to read/message boards? I just ask because some schools have specific things to watch out for, may be more focused resources. Mostly general stuff, articles and such. rouliroul fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Sep 29, 2013 |
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Sep 29, 2013 04:12
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INSEAD deadline on Wednesday for me... squeaky bum time. Would anyone be willing to give my essays an impartial, brutal final reading? Smeef fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Sep 30, 2013 |
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Sep 30, 2013 07:40
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Smeef posted:INSEAD deadline on Wednesday for me... squeaky bum time. I can if you want - recently got accepted to 14D there so have a decent idea of what they're looking for. Send'em over to o_makins@hotmail.com and I'll see what I can do!
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Sep 30, 2013 20:14
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Smeef posted:INSEAD deadline on Wednesday for me... squeaky bum time. I'm a 14J, happy to look. PM if you want, or if you don't have, let me know and I'll post email.
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Sep 30, 2013 23:45
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Actually I just decided that I won't have time to make any substantial edits before the deadline, so I'm going to hold off having more critiques. Will remember to call on the goonbase earlier before I send out my next apps. Thanks for the quick responses, though.
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Oct 1, 2013 05:39
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I'm looking at multiple programs in economics, business administration, and one interesting engineering program if I could handle the math. All the programs I'm considering either don't require any test other than their own, or will accept GRE. I went into the GRE cold 5 years ago, and scored 730. My current roommate shamed me with his 790, though, so I'm thinking I want to improve on that. I am currently attempting to do all of the Khan Academy learning dashboard math exercises. From what I remember that should probably cover everything I stumbled on before. Anyone know if anything's changed with the GRE in the last 5 years? Anyone know from experience if Khan Academy is a good preparation/refresher for graduate entrance exams?
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Oct 5, 2013 07:38
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