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ImpAtom posted:It really does. The hard part is finding the right combination of "marketable change" and not "cause a lot of bad fan PR" change. Metroid Prime pulled it off but Prime was an absolutely stellar game on its own merits. Mega Man really needs something like that if it would get a serious kick in the pants. Honestly, at this stage, I wouldn't give a crap about bad fan PR. I mean Castlevania shifted gears completely and it did pretty well for itself. So far it seems to me that the fans just want the same few games repeated over and over again.
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Sep 18, 2013 05:41
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Pureauthor posted:Off the back of BN3. Same reason why DMC2 sold so well, and while DMC4 sold so well. This doesn't always hold true though. Metroid Prime 1 sold quite a bit more than Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime 2 was a very good game.
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Sep 18, 2013 05:44
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It wasn't as accessible of a game, though, with the dark/light world mechanic. I didn't have (much)trouble with it but it seems a lot of people did.
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Sep 18, 2013 05:56
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Here's screwattack on the Mighty 9 kickstarter: http://www.screwattack.com/news/fault-our-kickstarters He seems pretty mad this is succeeding for some reason. Oxxidation posted:You're being stupid and weird and getting called out as such, deal with it He's just doing the self-righteous overreacting that obsessive types with sexual issues have, gotta see offensive things everywhere  .Here's some good imagery instead:   Also reminder that if you're not reading the Megaman comic, get on it: 
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Sep 18, 2013 05:57
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At least post the cover for the current arc. 
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Sep 18, 2013 06:16
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Gammatron 64 posted:Honestly, Mega Man is more closely related to Sonic, except he never had any high profile failures and less total stinkers, but unlike Sonic he never had a comeback. Or well, I guess he did with Mega Man 9 and 10... but after that he must have decided to quit while he was ahead... I wouldn't call MM9 and MM10 comebacks. "Throwback" would be a better term. They weren't bad games, but they certainly don't have the power to save the franchise. We either need some new blood, or it needs to be put down gracefully. Alteisen posted:At least post the cover for the current arc. That's the best cover art Archie has ever had for anything ever and if I could I would cover the walls of my house with it. I have always wanted to see Dr. Wily and Dr. Eggman hang out.
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Sep 18, 2013 06:36
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blackguy32 posted:This doesn't always hold true though. Metroid Prime 1 sold quite a bit more than Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime 2 was a very good game. I've very rarely heard it said that Prime 2 was a better game than Prime 1. I think if it hadn't been such a departure from the original, it would have sold better. Mister Roboto posted:He's just doing the self-righteous overreacting that obsessive types with sexual issues have, gotta see offensive things everywhere 
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Sep 18, 2013 06:53
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Lurdiak posted:I've very rarely heard it said that Prime 2 was a better game than Prime 1. I think if it hadn't been such a departure from the original, it would have sold better. Yes, but the original point was that some games sell very well because they are riding on the coattails of the game before it. For example, Devil May Cry 2 sold very well, and that game sucked.
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Sep 18, 2013 06:58
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Yea, MMBN3 was pure quality and just LOADED with poo poo to do, each MMBN game up to that point had increased in quality in every aspect, there was no reason to think they'd take a step back. MMBN4 wasn't just a step back, it jumped over the loving cliff. It was clearly blasted out the door before it was ready.
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Sep 18, 2013 07:12
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Mister Roboto posted:Here's screwattack on the Mighty 9 kickstarter: He has a few good points very early on, but draws a conclusion I'm not entirely in agreement with. Yes, Kickstarters are risky, but he seems to kind of miss the point; if there was a publisher interested in funding Mighty No. 9, without extreme tight leash, then it would follow that there would have to be publishers interested in doing Project:Eternity and Wasteland 2. But guess what, these publishers only call up after the fact that the Kickstarter is successful with more incentives for the developers to invest in them. It's not that publishers are evil, as he points out. But a lot of publishers seem fully blind to real marketing trends. That or they don't understand oversaturation.
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Sep 18, 2013 08:01
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I think part of the unfortunate problem was that when Star Force began to ultimately tank after the bad reception of 2, Capcom decided not to focus on pushing out new material to advertise the series - cutting the anime short instead - but that also instead of a new entry around which they might garner new fan interest, retreated to the safeties of nostalgia. The people interested and willing to play Mega Man 9 would be those who already knew of the franchise and had fond memories of its earlier years. And unfortunately, part of the trick with sustaining a franchise is also getting new audiences interested. ...Which incidentally means Mighty No. 9 might do well to make sure its advertised beyond its kickstarter page.
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Sep 18, 2013 10:33
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This completely loving rules. I love it when characters do that explosion thing and suddenly they're in/out of their armor(or whatever). Like Jin Saotome.
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Sep 18, 2013 10:48
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blackguy32 posted:Honestly, at this stage, I wouldn't give a crap about bad fan PR. I mean Castlevania shifted gears completely and it did pretty well for itself. So far it seems to me that the fans just want the same few games repeated over and over again. It sold more than any other Castlevania but still didn't sell that much. Castlevania games are not big sellers. It's hard to tell how much of that is actual praise for the shifting of gears and how much was the game actually getting a budget and multi-console release instead of being a handheld exclusive with a shoestring budget. For example, Mirror of Fate, the 3DS-exclusive LoS-style Castlevania game, sold less than any of the DS ones did, which doesn't suggest a lot of fan energy for it. (It wasn't a very good game either which I'm sure contributed to it.) TaurusOxford posted:Here's a good first step: Don't announce you're making a game, ask for input from the Megaman community, cancel the game, and then have the nerve to blame the cancellation on the same fans who spent their time and effort to help try and make the game. This keeps coming up and it's pretty disingenuous. They didn't blame the fans who spent their time and effort. They said that there were very few fans who spent their time and effort, and that was likely pretty true. They said from the start that MML3 wasn't even assured and they were going to use the 3DS demo's sales to test if there was a market for it. Capcom didn't put out the demo, which was in fact lovely. However "there was no fan presence so we cancelled the game" wasn't an out-of-nowhere statement. It was exactly what they said would happen from the start of the entire thing. From the very beginning Inafune said that there was little corporate interest in Mega Man Legends 3 because the first two games were sales failures. MML3: Prototype Edition was there to prove that there was a market to make it into a full game. Even if Inafune had stayed and even if the Prototype version had come out, there was still a (fairly good, especially considering the 3DS had such a bad start) chance that it would never have gotten past the Prototype stage. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 13:31
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If the 3DS was not initially a flop, and instead was the 3DS we all know and love from a year after release, I'm pretty sure they would not have canceled the game.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:36
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greatn posted:If the 3DS was not initially a flop, and instead was the 3DS we all know and love from a year after release, I'm pretty sure they would not have canceled the game. So basically, it could've been the 3DS's Maverick Hunter X?
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Sep 18, 2013 13:39
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Great, now I keep seeing this dude as having a pronounced fire crotch. It's me, it was me all along. I am the mature one. It is me.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:42
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Powered Up!/Maverick Hunter X double-pack for 3DS. Why is this not a thing? Come to think of it, it's September and we're still waiting for 'em to show their hand in regards to the whole anniversary celebrations. They're cutting it really drat fine...
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Sep 18, 2013 13:44
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Powered Up!/Maverick Hunter X double-pack for 3DS. Why is this not a thing? 
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Sep 18, 2013 13:50
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quakster posted:They're celebrating Megaman's 26th birthday? They said they'd be celebrating the 25th anniversary for a year beginning from last December, right? I didn't imagine that?
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Sep 18, 2013 13:55
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blackguy32 posted:Honestly, I think MegaMan really needs a kick in the pants. As much as people dislike it, I think the formula should definitely be changed up a bit.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:16
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:They said they'd be celebrating the 25th anniversary for a year beginning from last December, right? I didn't imagine that? We got Xover and MMxSF. THAT was the celebration.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:16
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Alteisen posted:Yea, MMBN3 was pure quality and just LOADED with poo poo to do, each MMBN game up to that point had increased in quality in every aspect, there was no reason to think they'd take a step back.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:30
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IronicDongz posted:I've heard this a lot, but haven't ever played any MMBN games other than 5 and 6 that my friend had. How'd it go bad at 4? I don't think a summary can do it justice, so here: http://lparchive.org/Mega-Man-Battle-Network-4-6/Update%2001/
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Sep 18, 2013 14:34
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:I wish they'd milk GnG like they milked Megaman, I wouldn't even care. If you want a GnG-like, get Maldita Castilla. It's so freaking good. It even has a good story for a platformer, sure it's not deep but the presentation was superb. http://www.locomalito.com/maldita_castilla.php The axe weapon blows but whatever. I realize I advertize for this game too much. But I can't help it. Mods please don't ban me.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:36
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blackguy32 posted:Honestly, I think MegaMan really needs a kick in the pants. As much as people dislike it, I think the formula should definitely be changed up a bit. Agreed. We all know that I love 8-bit and 16-bit Mega Man. If Capcom keeps pumping out new retro style Mega Man games, I will eat them all up. But I also realize my taste in gaming is extremely niche, and I fully admit that I'm more of a "retro-gamer" and I'm kind of behind the times. Mega Man has a small but dedicated fandom, but that fandom isn't getting any bigger. You need to draw in today's kids, not just people who grew up with an NES during childhood. I've said it many times before, but they badly need to make another attempt at a 3D Mega Man. And NO, they shouldn't make it "gritty" and "hardcore" like that canned game by the Metroid Prime team. A modern Mega Man game should be more like Ratchet and Clank. Our gaming industry is full of dark, dreary depressing shooters trying to capitalize on Call of Duty and Gears of War and I'm honestly quite sick of them. How many shooters have you played that are bright, colorful, cartoony and have that "Nintendo-y" feel? Mega Man needs to venture out and explore different gameplay styles, but I don't want them to forget who Mega Man is and give us a Bomberman: Act Zero. Gameplay wise, I think 3D Mega Man third person shooter should take cues from Vanquish by giving Mega Man a means to dash \ slide and get around quickly, and Vanquish also feels like a throwback to games like Mega Man and Contra as it often has huge bosses that are practically out of the 16-bit era. While platforming is often less of an emphasis in 3D games, I still think there should still be some in there. Also, I think Mega Man should get away from the whole "8 bosses" thing. Limiting the game to 8 stages and a wily fortress or two feels like it limits the scope of the games. As much as I love Mega Man games, very few of them feel "big" and "epic" but rather "episodic." Rather than just being another day in the life of Mega Man, I think the player needs to feel like they're embarking on a big, epic quest of importance. A lot of Mario games pull this off, and they generally have the same plot of "Bowser kidnapped the Princess again." I'm sure they can do that with Mega Man too, somehow. Instead of a game about Mega Man going through the motions again, there needs to be a game about Mega Man going on a grand adventure. Of course, what I'm describing is a lot like the Mega Man Legends games. MML3 will never happen, and honestly I think we've waited too long for a sequel - the main target audience for the game probably wasn't even born when MML1 came out. As much as I, personally, would love MML3, I think Mega Man needs to start over completely fresh.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:48
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My dream Mega Man game is a 3D platformer starring Quint made by Platinum, which is pretty much the most unlikely thing to happen, ever. Oh well, I can dream, can't I?  EDIT: The bosses would have lyrics about them by The Megas, Metal Gear Rising-style Waterfall of Salt fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 14:59
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Waterfall of Salt posted:My dream Mega Man game is a 3D platformer starring Quint made by Platinum, which is pretty much the most unlikely thing to happen, ever. Oh well, I can dream, can't I? Man now I wanna see a 3D Mega Man Zero remake or something made by Platinum.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:07
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Powered Up!/Maverick Hunter X double-pack for 3DS. Why is this not a thing? http://www.capcom-unity.com/brelston/blog/2013/09/11/two-amazing-mega-man-tribute-albums-coming-this-fall Capcom posted:For the past several months, I've worked closely with the fine folks at OverClocked ReMix and Sumthing Else Music Works to prepare not one, but TWO albums devoted to the iconic Blue Bomber. Next month, a team of talented remixers will present For Everlasting Peace: 25 Years of Mega Man, while six well-known live acts will contribute their songs to Sumthing Else's MM25: Mega Man Rocks. I think this is good enough.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:Also, I think Mega Man should get away from the whole "8 bosses" thing. Limiting the game to 8 stages and a wily fortress or two feels like it limits the scope of the games. As much as I love Mega Man games, very few of them feel "big" and "epic" but rather "episodic." Rather than just being another day in the life of Mega Man, I think the player needs to feel like they're embarking on a big, epic quest of importance. A lot of Mario games pull this off, and they generally have the same plot of "Bowser kidnapped the Princess again." I'm sure they can do that with Mega Man too, somehow. Instead of a game about Mega Man going through the motions again, there needs to be a game about Mega Man going on a grand adventure. Yeah, modern platformers are a hard sell and the ones that are still making it - let's see there's new sonic, rayman, new super mario, kirby, donkey kong country returns... well, one of them is that they all have a poo poo-ton of levels with obstacles that could only work with modern hardware. Another I just noticed is that they all have co-op, but I think that would be harder to work into Megaman, I'd just be happy to have a lot of levels.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:21
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The Merkinman posted:What form would this take? Mega Man 11? Another story arc? (X, Z, Battle Network, Legends, etc), or... a 'reboot' of the original? (Powered Up notwithstanding). It could be any of those things. It could even be a mix of those things. I know people saying switching up the gameplay style is blasphemous for the franchise, but we have had 10 games that have the same basic type of gameplay with subtle changes, I think it is time to try something new. Hell, I thought that Command Mission could have been a great game if it wasn't so drat limited and lifeless. Basically, they are trying new things, but they keep loving up the execution and then giving up. Gammatron 64 posted:Of course, what I'm describing is a lot like the Mega Man Legends games. MML3 will never happen, and honestly I think we've waited too long for a sequel - the main target audience for the game probably wasn't even born when MML1 came out. As much as I, personally, would love MML3, I think Mega Man needs to start over completely fresh. I think Legends messes up in that it is so drat loving short. I love the first Legends, but I can seriously beat it in a afternoon. In terms of direction, I think Megaman 7 was definitely headed in the right direction. First, Wily actually gets captured for once. Second, it introduces a rival for Megaman which I think was sorely needed in that it gives a continual antagonist for Megaman to play off of. Third, it at least attempts to give Megaman a little more character by him getting frustrated enough to almost want to kill Wily. For me at least, story is becoming a even bigger part of why I care. I need something to hold the game together and explain why they hell I am doing what I am doing. Its not a big push, but it is a subtle bump that can mean all of the difference. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 15:37
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To be honest, I think changing Mega Man's story is fine, but you'd have to do it intelligently. To use an example: Astro Boy is a big example for Mega Man. I think we can all agree on that. There's an arc called "The Seven Strongest Robots" which probably contributed at least a bit to Mega Man in general. A Japanese author took The Seven Strongest Robots and remade it as a new story called Pluto which kept the same concepts and ideas but gave them a new perspective, aided by some truly fantastic redesigns of existing characters that were at once recognizable and new. It turned the story into a more realistic murder mystery but kept the ideas and concepts that Tezuka originally had for Astro Boy. Mega Man really could use a Pluto. Someone who loves and adores the original and is able to understand what to do with it. You don't need to make a serious grimdark post-apocalyptic game where Mega Man murders Wiley and then has a bloodbath fight with Zero or whatever because that's a poor retelling. It just takes someone willing to honestly look at the character and consider it instead of a focus-tested overly-marketed "adult" rework or a fanfiction-style "and then Mega Man rips Bass's head off and robo-shits down his neck."
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Sep 18, 2013 17:30
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I think also they need to move away from 8 bit throwback graphics. 2D performers are allowed to look good by modern standards, just look at Donkey Kong County Returns or Rayban Origins or Gianna Sisters. I'm leaving those typos in because they are kind of funny to me.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:41
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Admittedly something akin to the various manga series, or even the Archie comic, could be of use. When the story is no longer limited by technical limitations, there's a number of ways you can expand on even the original series to create a vast, expansive world centred around one man's efforts to create a brighter tomorrow, and another's efforts to ruin that out of scorn. So here's a curiosity then - what kind of genre that the franchise hasn't already played with, would you guys think might be suited to a new MegaMan game?
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Sep 18, 2013 17:48
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Astro Nut posted:So here's a curiosity then - what kind of genre that the franchise hasn't already played with, would you guys think might be suited to a new MegaMan game? I still say that Ratchet & Clank-style gameplay is a perfect fit.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:51
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Mega Man MOBA. (They definitely have more than enough prominent characters to pull that off.)
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Sep 18, 2013 17:53
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest, I think changing Mega Man's story is fine, but you'd have to do it intelligently. Oh yeah, you would have the change the story, I just don't want them to change the feel, you know? The framework of Mega Man's story is pretty universal and you can honestly do a lot with it provided you keep the core the same. There's a LOT of Japanese anime that's very similar to Mega Man, mostly because Mega Man itself is a derivative work that comes from Astro Boy, Kikaider, Cyborg 009, Casshern and so on, which themselves are based on Pinocchio. Of course, given Capcom's track record, level competency and obsession with the Call of Duty audience, a Mega Man reboot would probably end up a travesty like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olYCsHuqjOo This awful, grimdark "adult" focus grouped poo poo is exactly what Capcom would make. If you want to do a more "grown up" Mega Man story, don't go for an M rating for Godssakes as a grimdark Mega Man is about as weird and off-putting as a back Sonic the Hedgehog shooting people with machine guns. The first couple Mega Man X games are probably as "hardcore" as Mega Man should ever get. What you should do instead is go for the age old robot story trope of asking "what does it mean to be human?" and maybe touch on that it's somewhat tragic that Mega Man has to be used as a weapon to destroy other robots. I have no problem with M rated games and love poo poo like Grand Theft Auto but that's not Mega Man. Pureauthor posted:Mega Man MOBA. No. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 17:56
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They could have 2d, 2.5d, and 3d sections the way sonic does. I don't think it's necessary to abandon 2d yet, rayman legends alone shows there's some crazy poo poo an imaginative team could still work into a megaman game that has not been tried. Still, there's nothing really to be lost from varying the gameplay that way. Yes I know x7 did this. The team did not expend any effort into making it good or interesting, it is not proof that this idea cannot work if attempted by a team that cared.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:56
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I'd actually like to see something like the new Castle of Illusion remake honestly. That is pretty close to my gold standard for taking a whimsical 2D platformer and updating it with some 3D elements without losing the whole.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:02
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ChuChu Rocket but with Metools and Servbots. Or just ChuChu Rocket. Or Pikmin/Overlord with Tron Bonne.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:05
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Astro Nut posted:So here's a curiosity then - what kind of genre that the franchise hasn't already played with, would you guys think might be suited to a new MegaMan game? Well it was tried with X but another Megaman RPG could be fun. (And the X one was not that bad either, just kind of mediocre.) Sort of follow the Archie comic's and have people form a party of Megaman, Roll, Protoman, and all the MM1 Robot Masters. (Since they are his brother's that we're re-wired by Wily). Beating boss would unlock new weapons for every one.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:07
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