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Marley Wants More posted:You know you're a true fan when instead of just thinking the "Jackal" scene was dumb, you think there must be something wrong with you because you think it was dumb. I thought it was dumb too v  v
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Sep 18, 2013 14:51
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Jose Valasquez posted:I thought it was dumb too v I like it because of how into it the characters are, rather than liking it for the actual performance of the jackal. If that makes sense. Like, it wouldn't matter what it was, it's just really nice to see them all being casual and enjoying themselves and appreciating CJ.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:06
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In case anyone missed it. http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/allison-janney-performed-the-jackal-on-the-arsenio-hall-show Marley Wants More posted:You know you're a true fan when instead of just thinking the "Jackal" scene was dumb, you think there must be something wrong with you because you think it was dumb. It's a thing Allison Janney just kind of does in real life. She would do it occasionally on set, so they worked in into the show. Yeah, it's strange, no doubt, but I can't help but laugh.
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Sep 18, 2013 15:18
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Doing my first re-watch in years, and I'm at the end of Season 6. Season 5 held up better than I'd remembered from previous watch-throughs, although it does have two of my favorite episodes ("The Warfare of Genghis Khan"/"The Supremes"). "Access" is still terrible, though. I'm probably in the minority in liking Will over Sam (Sam is easily my least favorite main character). Then again, I work in politics and ladder-climbing, Bingo Bob-pushing Will comes off as a hell of a lot more realistic/plausible to me than idealistic, meet-my-hooker-friend  Sam does.
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Sep 18, 2013 16:18
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Roark posted:Doing my first re-watch in years, and I'm at the end of Season 6. Season 5 held up better than I'd remembered from previous watch-throughs, although it does have two of my favorite episodes ("The Warfare of Genghis Khan"/"The Supremes"). "Access" is still terrible, though. 
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Sep 18, 2013 17:21
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Marley Wants More posted:You know you're a true fan when instead of just thinking the "Jackal" scene was dumb, you think there must be something wrong with you because you think it was dumb. My problem with the scene is it was massively overhyped. OK, so it's a given Sorkinism that characters endlessly repeat something ahead of revealing it's significance to the audience, but in relation to a performance it just boosts false expectations. The best part about it is seeing Toby react to it.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:32
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Roark posted:I'm probably in the minority in liking Will over Sam (Sam is easily my least favorite main character). Then again, I work in politics and ladder-climbing, Bingo Bob-pushing Will comes off as a hell of a lot more realistic/plausible to me than idealistic, meet-my-hooker-friend Will has always been a better character and anyone in disagreement is wrong and has terrible opinions
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Sep 18, 2013 17:57
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Khablam posted:My problem with the scene is it was massively overhyped. OK, so it's a given Sorkinism that characters endlessly repeat something ahead of revealing it's significance to the audience, but in relation to a performance it just boosts false expectations. Josh Lyman posted:I think I just don't like Joshua Malina as an actor. I don't like his face and I don't like his voice.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:02
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I always thought that The Jackal was the kind of thing that wasn't that great by itself, but was the kind of thing where everyone who was there the first time she did it loves it because of the association with whatever the circumstances of that first time were and everyone else just goes along with those people because it is fun. I always figured that the newer staffers in that scene would have been just as  as the viewers were.
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Sep 18, 2013 18:43
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I read somewhere that generally in a TV show you wan't to show and not tell, and that Aaron Sorkin was really good at telling not showing. I think that this is the case. It's great because the characters say it's great. As withak says, it's linked to times that we've never seen, but we have to believe it's awesome because the characters say it's awesome.
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Sep 18, 2013 21:07
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FISHMANPET posted:I read somewhere that generally in a TV show you wan't to show and not tell, and that Aaron Sorkin was really good at telling not showing. I think that this is the case. It's great because the characters say it's great. As withak says, it's linked to times that we've never seen, but we have to believe it's awesome because the characters say it's awesome. Telling not showing is Sorkin's greatest weakness. Everyone is telling us over and over how smart a character is and then when we see them they're kind of dumb. If you want people to think a character is smart, have the character be smart, not just have every other character say over and over how smart they are.
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Sep 18, 2013 21:47
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Josh Lyman posted:I think I just don't like Joshua Malina as an actor. I don't like his face and I don't like his voice. "I like Europe?"
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Sep 18, 2013 21:54
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gohuskies posted:Telling not showing is Sorkin's greatest weakness. Everyone is telling us over and over how smart a character is and then when we see them they're kind of dumb. If you want people to think a character is smart, have the character be smart, not just have every other character say over and over how smart they are. I'll agree that it falls down when we're just supposed to take as given that characters are smart. But there's a lot of cases, like Equatorial Kundu, speaking about the civil war. We don't see any of the atrocities, we're told about them. I think it works well for the West Wing because we've got the same detachment from events that the staff does. He's not in Kundu, he's hearing about it from aides, and reading reports. How do you "show" people sleeping in each other's homes? It has much more impact when it's told. E: Wish I could find the cold open of "The California 47th" on YouTube. "Strictly speaking, I've conquered your country without the paperwork." FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 22:19
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gohuskies posted:Telling not showing is Sorkin's greatest weakness. Everyone is telling us over and over how smart a character is and then when we see them they're kind of dumb. If you want people to think a character is smart, have the character be smart, not just have every other character say over and over how smart they are. This was even more obvious in Studio 60. The titular show was apparently the smartest comedy show ever, and everything we saw was terrible. I don't really like Will because his character does a complete 180. Idealistic enough to try and get a dead man elected, and later on he supports Bingo Bob because he's the most realistic candidate.
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Sep 19, 2013 08:46
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FISHMANPET posted:I'll agree that it falls down when we're just supposed to take as given that characters are smart. But there's a lot of cases, like Equatorial Kundu, speaking about the civil war. We don't see any of the atrocities, we're told about them. I think it works well for the West Wing because we've got the same detachment from events that the staff does. He's not in Kundu, he's hearing about it from aides, and reading reports. How do you "show" people sleeping in each other's homes? It has much more impact when it's told. Josh is billed to us over and over as this great political operative, but for the majority of the shows run he is treading water at best, and being resoundingly beat every few episodes. It's far from my biggest peeve (with a show I have watched through many times) but it's a little tiresome at times. When Sorkin tells but doesn't show, and we really wanted to actually see it (full speeches, arguments, plausible things you expect to see) it can be pretty jarring when it keeps happening. There's so many examples over the 7 seasons of there being a massive build up to a confrontation, only for the confrontation itself to be rather lackluster, too. Even the MS story pretty much faded out as a political ramification. A whole season of buildup, cliffhangers of senior staff looking stern with the "come at me" lines, Toby pontificating as hard as possible, John raising his eyebrows to his hairline, and the story peters out with a censure and Abby deciding not to practice medicine. The show is superlative during the build up to these things, but I'm not surprised Sorkin leans on "tell don't show" because quite often what gets shown isn't as captivating.
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Sep 19, 2013 10:01
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The confusion over The Jackal is one of the most mind-boggling things to me. It's *really* not that hard to understand. I mean, it's pretty clear. Obviously on the campaign trail they got super drunk or something one night and CJ did this thing, and yay good times we're being stupid and funny! Her doing it again is just them reliving something that happened way back when. I don't understand why it'a so confusing or whatever.
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Sep 19, 2013 10:27
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WoG posted:I always saw it not as notable in and of itself, but just as one of those drunken party stories that gets told and retold until it's an event. I don't think they ever 'hype' it as anything else. I wish that Malina had actually gone through on his plan to sneak Whitford into a SAG Awards In Memoriam reel. That would have been amazing. meatbag posted:This was even more obvious in Studio 60. The titular show was apparently the smartest comedy show ever, and everything we saw was terrible. I loved The Very Model of a Modern Network TV show, but songs that use the Major General's Song have a direct line to my funnybone.
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Sep 19, 2013 12:30
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BrooklynBruiser posted:I loved The Very Model of a Modern Network TV show, but songs that use the Major General's Song have a direct line to my funnybone. I agree with that one, but that's also the only one in a season of 22 episodes where we see something genuinely funny and clever. Science Schmience got presented as this brilliant, controversial segment, and it's just barely above what you would see on The Girlie Show.
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Sep 19, 2013 13:15
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The whole Josh sucking thing, I thought was the byproduct of him being awesome meant bad TV. So we only see the days where Josh comes up against an opponent he has trouble with. For example, when he hamstrings Amy we see him ruthlessly go through his opposition because it's not central to the plot that he doesn't. I guess that's how I worked it out in my head.
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Sep 19, 2013 13:30
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That's my impression as well. We never see why Josh is considered the best because the way he deals with most things prevent them from ever appearing like an obstacle in the first place. He's a political strategist, so when things go according to plan everything is calm and not very exciting.
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Sep 19, 2013 14:02
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CelestialScribe posted:The confusion over The Jackal is one of the most mind-boggling things to me. It's *really* not that hard to understand. No, I get that. Really. I just don't understand why they made such a big deal of it. Sure, they didn't devote the entire episode to it or anything, but the amount of time they did devote to it just seemed like I was supposed to be a lot more impressed by it than I was. I like flashbacks and references to the pre-show timeline, and I really enjoyed seeing some of the funnier things that happened when they were putting the campaign staff together ("Avert your eyes!"), but I thought throwing a basketball through the window and then asking for an intern was a lot funnier than The Jackal and they spent, like, 15 seconds on that. Perhaps it's just that with a show where I thought almost literally every single second was genius, the moments that fall short of that are particularly notable to me.
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Sep 19, 2013 15:02
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meatbag posted:I don't really like Will because his character does a complete 180. Idealistic enough to try and get a dead man elected, and later on he supports Bingo Bob because he's the most realistic candidate. It's a way more natural progression for a real life political operative (the jump from idealism to practicality). The problem is that they shoe-horned in what should have been a longer-term arc of character change from idealist to realist into a super-compressed space of time, and it (rightly) came off as rushed. And it was still handled better than
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Sep 19, 2013 15:11
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^^ agreed to some extent, but I probably would've liked Will more if the impetus for backing Russell was pragmatism. Instead, it actually was a form of idealism (the "hand-picked by Bartlett" nonsense) until he really starts battling with Josh and then the writers get us to believe that Will did this because Russell had the best shot (instead of being the best man).meatbag posted:I don't really like Will because his character does a complete 180. Idealistic enough to try and get a dead man elected, and later on he supports Bingo Bob because he's the most realistic candidate. Agreed. I know that the response to this complaint is, "Will thought that Bartlett & Co. believed in Russell," but that makes no sense because Will was involved in those conversations and cowrote the "triumph of mediocrity" speech. I like Josh Malina in basically everything he's done (even Scandal, which is a hilariously stupid show), but he was sold out by the writers once the Bingo Bob storyline began. i am the bird fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Sep 19, 2013 |
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Sep 19, 2013 15:16
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The Jackal thing is given so much more context by the Arsenio Hall clip. Look at how god drat sexy Janney is in that clip. I swear to god it absolutely gave me the vapors.
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Sep 19, 2013 16:40
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Makes you wonder if there isn't way more of that on the cutting room floor, and some producer or exec or someone is like "whoah, this is 1999, calm this the gently caress down."
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Sep 19, 2013 16:43
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Now you've got me kind of wondering what West Wing: 2013 would look like.
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Sep 19, 2013 21:40
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FrozenVent posted:Now you've got me kind of wondering what West Wing: 2013 would look like. Just listen to NPR. I can just imagine after Boehner tries to shut down the government over Obamacare, having Barack get up from the table and saying "Shut it down."
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Sep 20, 2013 00:37
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TheBigBad posted:Just listen to NPR. 
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Sep 30, 2013 00:37
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Khablam posted:It's getting pretty close. And someone once told me that plotline was hopelessly unrealistic Well what were the odds that the lights would go out at that precise moment?
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Sep 30, 2013 15:14
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Ah, a new season of television means we get to see our old friends in different places! FBI Agent Mike Casper got promoted to another government desk job in Agents of SHIELD.  In a fit of senility, a disoriented Marion Coteseworth-Haye wandered from her home in Marblehead and found herself in the Brookyln 99 precinct. Hey, with this shutdown, it's nice work if you can get it.
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Oct 2, 2013 23:47
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Caufman posted:
I knew she looked familiar!
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Oct 3, 2013 04:35
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This week really makes me wish there was an applicable Josh or Toby diatribe to express how stupid the White House online petitions are.
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Oct 3, 2013 22:48
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http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/10/west-wing-government-shutdown/
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Oct 3, 2013 22:56
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Watching the episode with Ainsley's replacement right now. Holy poo poo the width of Toby's ties. The show aged well, but drat the 90's didn't.
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Oct 4, 2013 01:37
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I've been watching the ten million youtube clips of this show over the last few months. It was one of those classic bits of television I missed due to youth and never got back too, and I was amazed at how compelling the characters were and how wide the net of exciting political drama that I really wanted to see play out was cast. I've finally taken the plunge and watched the first two episodes. My friends told me the original plan was for Jed Bartlet to rarely show up, and even after only one scene of him in the pilot I thank god that plan changed. The thought of missing out on many of the trials and tribulations and speeches and sermons I've seen and many more I know I've yet to see so they could make a show about the President without a President in it makes me sad.
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Oct 4, 2013 05:42
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FrozenVent posted:Watching the episode with Ainsley's replacement right now. 
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Oct 4, 2013 05:48
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Just finished watching S1 episode 3, and I'm surprised how war hawkish President Bartlett is. Granted it was largely for personal reasons, but still it did take me aback. Also interesting that not retaliating wasn't even an option.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:01
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theblackw0lf posted:Just finished watching S1 episode 3, and I'm surprised how war hawkish President Bartlett is. Granted it was largely for personal reasons, but still it did take me aback. A US military plane was downed by a foreign state security service. You don't just let something like that slide. It's a bit less strange in the context of the mid-to-late 90s. The US wasn't involved in active Middle East wars but was, on occasion, the victim of terror attacks abroad (Iraqi violations, Kenya, Nairobi, USS Cole). The response each incident was missile/air strikes shortly thereafter. It's different when you're actively engaged in a war and it's accepted as a by-product.
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Oct 7, 2013 21:21
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I don't know if this has been posted before but I was looking for WW Wallpapers and found this No idea what magazine this his from but everything about this is gold
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Oct 22, 2013 03:16
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I am literally crying with laughter now. Oh my god.
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Oct 22, 2013 03:19
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