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I have a guy who really wanted one of the positions, and he was an "okay" fit. After we interviewed him though, we found a "great" fit. Now I feel bad I have to tell this guy, who was really, really excited about it, "No, sorry, you were super excited about the job but you didn't get it." so I've been procrastinating. I should have told him today, but I didn't. I'm a bad person  Its not just people on the interviewee side who feel bad sometimes! CarForumPoster posted:Point is I've never gotten told yes or no on the first day they said I would. This is very true, with the best of intentions I usually don't manage to get back to people the day I wanted to. There's always some hang up. Sivlan fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Sep 18, 2013 |
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Sep 18, 2013 07:34
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Sivlan posted:I have a guy who really wanted one of the positions, and he was an "okay" fit. After we interviewed him though, we found a "great" fit. Coming from the interviewee side, what would be the best thing an "okay" fit could do to get the edge over a "great" fit? I've been in that situation before and it can be very frustrating when you know you'll be great at the job if you can just get the chance. Unfortunately there is almost always someone there with more experience who gets it. How far with drive and determination get you? This directly affects me because I'm looking to make a career change into a field I don't have a TON of experience in, but I know that if I have the chance to prove myself I will absolutely succeed. But everyone it seems like wants someone with a proven record.
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Sep 18, 2013 23:23
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yoohoo posted:Coming from the interviewee side, what would be the best thing an "okay" fit could do to get the edge over a "great" fit? I've been in that situation before and it can be very frustrating when you know you'll be great at the job if you can just get the chance. Unfortunately there is almost always someone there with more experience who gets it. How far with drive and determination get you? This directly affects me because I'm looking to make a career change into a field I don't have a TON of experience in, but I know that if I have the chance to prove myself I will absolutely succeed. But everyone it seems like wants someone with a proven record. Really, you have to be the great fit. Software wise, a great way to demonstrate your talents if you don't have the work experience is to write some open source software, or to make your own products. If the field you're in is more like sales where you can't magic relevant experience into being, demonstrate subject matter ability by writing a blog or something that prospective employers can see and take into consideration.
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Sep 19, 2013 00:19
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yoohoo posted:what would be the best thing an "okay" fit could do to get the edge over a "great" fit? I would love to hear from other interviewers on this. My bottom line is literally an okay fit can't get an edge on a great fit. For me, that's like asking "How can a person who drives 20 mph over the entire length of a 10 mile track beat out a person who drives 70 mph over the entire length of a 10 mile track?" It's an impossible question. I noticed you talked experience though. All I know about anyone is what they tell me, except for what I detective. Being able to do something for a lot of years (more than 5, as a cutoff--depending on how close to/far along the executive path you are) is kinda unimpressive to me, mostly because if you're so great why are you still doing the same thing a decade later? I end up asking myself why this person is so mediocre as to just exist as this OK thing that isn't good enough to be promoted or terrible enough to be fired. This isn't to say I haven't been surprised a few times by a person who's just genuinely in love with the thing they're doing. I mean, I google you too. Also I probably check your Facebook. I ask security and the receptionist if they noticed you, and if they do, what they remember. I'll also scan company records to see if anyone lists you as their contact. This has probably won the edge for someone as often as it's solidified them as 2nd place btw. I take a lot of pride in my hires!
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Sep 19, 2013 06:37
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Would you say that most recruiters/HR check out the person on facebook? What do you look for on it?
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Sep 19, 2013 07:28
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FAN OF NICKELBACK posted:I noticed you talked experience though. All I know about anyone is what they tell me, except for what I detective. Being able to do something for a lot of years (more than 5, as a cutoff--depending on how close to/far along the executive path you are) is kinda unimpressive to me, mostly because if you're so great why are you still doing the same thing a decade later? I also don't care as much about experience, but it is something to consider. Anything over, say, five years experience doesn't count as much for me, although I don't use the "why isn't this person at a higher level?" argument since you can both be perfectly competent and well suited for the level that you work at. It's uncommon, but not an obvious warning sign that someone Peter Principled out. That said, a lot of experience comes from learning from doing, so having experience at all is a good sign. Candidates without relevant work experience are probably (but not always) better suited to a junior role, since there are large gaps between what you learn formally and what you actually do. I will say that experience is only going to be one data point to consider. My manager has been surprised when I rejected several candidates for lack of relevant experience/skill despite ostensibly having plenty of it on their resume; frequently you have to dig into what's provided to actually see what the candidate has done. It's not sufficient to say "this candidate has 5 years experience in frobnitzing, looks like a good fit, interview him," if the candidate gives evidence in their resume of having frobnitzed for the last 5 years by means of copy/pasting tutorial code from Google. Really, what I'm looking for on a resume (and then in an interview) is evidence that you have not only done the job, but done it competently and to a level that we want to hire for. Other companies may work differently, or be less rigorous, of course.
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Sep 19, 2013 12:27
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I shouldn't have presented, "why haven't you moved up," as some kind of general red flag. In my field it is, In others it's not. No matter what field, however, experience is only as valuable as your ability to communicate how much you've made of it. I stand by my generalization that the most common differences between 5 and 10 years of experience in a single position are, a) how likely they are to be burnt out, and b) how clever they are at finding ways to avoid doing work. Disclaimer, I'm only referring to most fields  .And, CarForumPoster,absolutely I'll check Facebook. I can't speak for other employers, but I use it because I can cut away all the bullshit and see the candidate that I'd actually be hiring. All I'm doing though is making sure that there aren't any outright contradictions compared to your resume and that you're not a lovely human being (i.e. violently racist etc). For example, you said you are bilingual and that your gap in employment was because you moved to a new state last year . . . and then your Facebook shows you checking in at bars from the same state for the last two years after posting how you were fired for lying about being bilingual and would rather be shooting up than working anyway. I don't care one way or another about the boring day-to-day details, drunk pictures and/or "sexy" Myspace shots that everyone has.
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Sep 19, 2013 17:39
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Hmm. Should I cut my crazy mountain man hair and post a new selfie on Facebook? My Facebook is private except to friends, do you take that as a warning sign?
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Sep 19, 2013 19:20
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What's your reaction if you can't find any internet presence for someone?
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Sep 19, 2013 23:00
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Oh, I'll find you. No, not really, there's like 1 out of 4 people I can't find anything on. Internally I high five them for being able to have such a low profile online and just go with whatever I got from the interview. Think of it like this though, I have your name, your email, the state and city you live in, the name of your last employer, the school you went to and likely your interests/hobbies. Using that, Google yourself for exactly 10 minutes and decide if there's anything you should remove. Twitter probably hurts more people more than Facebook/G+ tbqh.
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Sep 19, 2013 23:45
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yoohoo posted:Coming from the interviewee side, what would be the best thing an "okay" fit could do to get the edge over a "great" fit? In my experience, not much. Like FAN OF NICKELBACK and Volmarias said were getting at, "fit" is holistic. When I was interviewing for the last round of hiring my team did, the differences between "okay" and "great" were wide enough that even if the okay candidate had been world-class in one of their strengths they would still have lagged behind in too many areas. Vague and discouraging, I know. But that's par for the course in hiring from what I've seen.
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Sep 19, 2013 23:54
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I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this. Next week I've got two interviews for different companies. Here are the pros and cons: Company 1 Pays around 15% more Not exactly the area I want to work in Doesn't have a lot of ties with a previous employer, whom I dislike Phone interview Company 2 Pays a bit less Exactly the area I want to work in Has ties with a previous employer whom I dislike Face to face interview I imagined that in an ideal world I'd be able to use the salary offered by company 1 to try and get a better one at company 2, but how does one go about doing that? Or is that the wrong thing to do?
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Sep 20, 2013 13:25
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I have not had compensation discussed in an interview except for a job that was so high stress the salary is what brought people in. Compensation offer usually comes with a concrete job offer and you bring it up then.
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Sep 20, 2013 13:39
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I had it brought up in the interview for the place I last worked at, but either way I'm not sure what to do - if they offer me it there & then at the interview, I don't know how I could hold out to see if the phone interview pans out.
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Sep 20, 2013 13:47
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CarForumPoster posted:I have not had compensation discussed in an interview except for a job that was so high stress the salary is what brought people in. Compensation offer usually comes with a concrete job offer and you bring it up then. Seriously, don't bring up compensation at the first interview; if they bring it up don't name a number. Deflect the question, basically. You're also assuming that you're going to get an offer from both jobs, which is far from guaranteed. Approach each interview separately, and do your best to get the job you're interviewing for. Until you have a written offer, that other job doesn't exist.
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Sep 20, 2013 13:48
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The whole awesome interview from a non ideal candidate just happened to me. I had an interview for a position I wasn't qualified for, thought I had done really well and got a "no" back. A couple of weeks passed and now they are advertising for the junior version of it basically, which I'm qualified for but I'd be switching industries so go from a great to a good candidate. The last one i was definitely a "ok" candidate at best and squeezed into the face to face interview by the skin of my teeth. So I applied, and got a phone call telling me they don't reinterview within 3 months of a no, but my interviewer had been really impressed and noted that I'd be an awesome fit for the jr position if it came up. So their boss has okayed passing me straight to a second stage competency interview with the area manager as long as they like my application, an if they don't they'll work with me to find an area manager who does. That last part makes me think I must have really aced the first face to face "fit for the role and company" interview or they wouldn't seem so eager to get me in, albeit at £5k a year less than the first role I interviewed for. Salary for both roles is published with the job spec and non negotiable.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:03
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Masonity posted:I had an interview for a position I wasn't qualified for, thought I had done really well and got a "no" back. I went to an interview yesterday for an engineering position at a professional motorsports team. I think I'm gonna get a no back because I semi-fit for two different positions but don't perfectly fit for either for sure. Hoping something like what you described will happen 
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Sep 20, 2013 19:05
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Salary may not be negotiable, but compensation is ALWAYS negotiable. Remember, compensation includes health plan, hours, access to company stock and vehicles, training in your field and a dozen other little things.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:06
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I'm going to be hiring a couple people in the next few months for a small business with only one current employee besides my wife and I. They will be kitchen assistants and bag fillers working 20 hrs a week making $8/hr with the potential of moving on to actual candymaking. Since we're tripling our payroll the quality and fit of the people we bring on is going to be extremely important. I'm thinking about having the interviewees work a 4hr shift with me as part of their interview. I'd like to see how quickly they can pick up new repetitive tasks, how well they remember and follow instructions, how seriously they take safety, and how much we want to be stuck in a tiny room with them all day. Is this kind of thing commonly done? Are there US labor laws that would prevent me from doing something like this. Should I pay the interviewees for their time? (I am going to be feeding them dinner) This thread has been a goldmine on information already, thanks to all the posters!
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Sep 20, 2013 20:10
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Is this kind of thing commonly done? Are there US labor laws that would prevent me from doing something like this. Should I pay the interviewees for their time? (I am going to be feeding them dinner)  It might depend on your local laws (what state are you in?) but my guess it the Federal Labor laws will have this covered, here's a link on the topic: http://napavalleyregister.com/business/columnists/mary-luros/are-working-interviews-legal/article_25260026-9f0c-11e1-9331-0019bb2963f4.html
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Sep 20, 2013 20:43
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Totally TWISTED posted:Yes (sorta). Yes. Yes. ah thanks! your link led me to the search terms I needed to hash this out. Looks like working interviews need to involve a day contract a w2, an I9, and of course, wages.
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Sep 21, 2013 05:49
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yoohoo posted:Coming from the interviewee side, what would be the best thing an "okay" fit could do to get the edge over a "great" fit? I've been in that situation before and it can be very frustrating when you know you'll be great at the job if you can just get the chance. Unfortunately there is almost always someone there with more experience who gets it. How far with drive and determination get you? This directly affects me because I'm looking to make a career change into a field I don't have a TON of experience in, but I know that if I have the chance to prove myself I will absolutely succeed. But everyone it seems like wants someone with a proven record. I think I should clarify my terms a bit, I'm not sure how common this is across industries. I also point out that we do a competency test during the interview for our positions, so we have a lot more to go on than their resume and what they tell us. The great fit candidates are, at least for me, all the candidates who do well at the competency check. Deciding between them is generally not about ranking by the primary skill set but on other qualities like attentiveness, professionalism, enthusiasms, or useful other skills because I've already verified that all the candidates in the "great" category can do the primary job. By contrast the "okay" fit person is someone who barely squeezed by the competency check, but shows potential to be trainable quickly on the job, and has some other remarkable skill that I feel would be a great asset for the group. The people who don't have some other remarkable quality and don't do well on the competency check are just flat out "poor" fits. So if you can't somehow prove you're a great fit during your interview: either because its a field that relies heavily on previous experience to judge candidates, or because your skills just aren't that polished, you will likely be put in the "poor" fit group. All the effort you put into giving yourself an "edge", showing drive, determination, teamwork skills or what-have-you is what's going to help move you into the "okay" category. You have to keep in mind that all that time spent ramping you up and letting you learn on the job (which is what I would expect from someone who I felt was an okay fit) is money lost, so employers are going to want to stick with the great category whenever they can. Out of curiosity, what field are you trying to switch into? I find it interesting that your impression of the field is that all the jobs go to the most experienced candidates, because I find there's almost always some sort of entry level position for most fields just due to the fact that its so much cheaper to hire. And sometimes you really don't need 5-star-awesome-dude when the work is really just 2-star-halp-where-is-button stuff. I mean unless the field is like, "space marine" or "ninja assassin" or something super specialized, I would imagine there would be something where they wouldn't expect too much experience. Sivlan fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Sep 21, 2013 |
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Sep 21, 2013 09:39
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Can anyone tell me good places to find interview styles of companies? Glass door is good, but only for big ones. Right now I'm working off what the listing mentions, but would live any other resources.
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Sep 23, 2013 00:54
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What is the best way for a male with long hair/beard to present himself on an interview? I'll be going on one at a major credit union this week and am struggling to find a clear answer for this. Tied back? Bun? Down? My hair just a bit past my collarbone and I keep it clean/trimmed, etc, but I REALLY want this job and want to make a great impression.
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Sep 23, 2013 19:12
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EdsTeioh posted:What is the best way for a male with long hair/beard to present himself on an interview? I'll be going on one at a major credit union this week and am struggling to find a clear answer for this. Tied back? Bun? Down? My hair just a bit past my collarbone and I keep it clean/trimmed, etc, but I REALLY want this job and want to make a great impression. Cut your hair. Seriously though, tie it back and trim your beard closely. If you're going to be customer facing at a credit union, they'll place more importance on the "well-groomed" aspect. To most people, that probably means clean or tightly shaven and shorter rather than longer hair on a guy, but if you're confident in your ability to clean up, just do that. Whatever you'd do for a wedding or nice occasion. But you should probably just cut your hair.
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Sep 23, 2013 22:00
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Nah, it's call center. I wait tables right now, and usually just keep it knotted up, so I think I'll just go that route. DukAmok posted:Cut your hair.
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Sep 23, 2013 22:30
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semicolonsrock posted:Can anyone tell me good places to find interview styles of companies? Glass door is good, but only for big ones. Right now I'm working off what the listing mentions, but would live any other resources. I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for; questions or types of interview settings. If it's the former, Glassdoor is one of your better bets. If it's the latter I'd be careful over-preparing for a specific type of interview; it can change based on how many interviewers they have for what position and how many candidates there are. Just prepare for behavioral questions and to act out or otherwise have your skills tested for the particular role and you'll be as prepared as I'd imagine you can be. You might look into the various companies that provide hiring training and systems to companies so you can prepare for quirks and cultures. Check out places like http://www.peopleink.com/products.html and http://www.ddiworld.com/products-solutions/listing/targeted-selection then Google "Interviewing Systems" and read up! EdsTeioh posted:What is the best way for a male with long hair/beard to present himself on an interview? I'll be going on one at a major credit union this week and am struggling to find a clear answer for this. Tied back? Bun? Down? My hair just a bit past my collarbone and I keep it clean/trimmed, etc, but I REALLY want this job and want to make a great impression. I'll echo DukAmok. Unless it serves religious purposes, cut your hair. Yes, long hair and beards will hold you back from getting a job in a customer facing industry. Yes you can still find places that will hire you with long hair and a beard. If you have time on your hands and it's really important to find a place that accepts you no matter what you look like, then more power to you. I can only advocate that you don't let someone else get a job simply because they would rather someone else's hair(lessness) be the face of their business.
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Sep 23, 2013 22:49
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Once you get the job, yout first project can be "revitalizing customer-facing grooming plans." Get it done!
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Sep 25, 2013 03:15
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Sivlan posted:I think I should clarify my terms a bit, I'm not sure how common this is across industries. I also point out that we do a competency test during the interview for our positions, so we have a lot more to go on than their resume and what they tell us. The great fit candidates are, at least for me, all the candidates who do well at the competency check. Deciding between them is generally not about ranking by the primary skill set but on other qualities like attentiveness, professionalism, enthusiasms, or useful other skills because I've already verified that all the candidates in the "great" category can do the primary job. By contrast the "okay" fit person is someone who barely squeezed by the competency check, but shows potential to be trainable quickly on the job, and has some other remarkable skill that I feel would be a great asset for the group. The people who don't have some other remarkable quality and don't do well on the competency check are just flat out "poor" fits. I'm trying to work at a production studio, which I would definitely consider more specialized than many other industries. I'm not a complete rookie when it comes to the work I'm looking to do, but I know there is a lot more skill out there than what I can offer at the moment (the joy of being unemployed though is that I spend most of my free time playing around in Final Cut Pro and Photoshop). I am looking for entry level gigs, but even those it seems like they'd still prefer someone with more experience or a better looking portfolio. I'm not getting desperate yet, but I'm going to start working for free or offering any help I can just so I can get out and meet people and get that experience I'm lacking.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:28
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I got a third interview for the job I've been after for over a month now. They're asking me to bring in examples of my work (email marketing - so designs I've done). I have two options: 1. Print several out 2. Pull up my website which already contains examples of my work Downside of printing them out is that they'll have to be sized down for a piece of paper. I could print them on large paper but that'd be awkward to bring in. Upside of printing them is that it's dependable. Downside of displaying my website is the uncertainty of whether a computer will be in the room where I'll be interviewing. Upside is that the site is a simple one page thing and I already have existing designs on display in a nice gallery format using jQuery. It not only allows the emails to be shown on a screen, but exhibits a good level of sophistication. Also, they have existing email products that look rather bad. Would it be arrogant/presumptuous of me to redesign one of them as example? Any recommendations? me your dad fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Sep 27, 2013 |
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Sep 27, 2013 13:24
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Do you have an iPad/laptop that you could bring in to show examples of your work? That would be the best solution, but be sure to download your website in case there isn't available Internet. If not, I'd email them and ask them if there is a PC available during your interview to show your examples, and include a link to your website. That's better than printing, since your work wasn't meant to be seen on paper, so there is always some degradation. I'd avoid redesigning their product, as it could be taken as criticism of the people you are going to be working with. I'd mention that you looked at their products, since it shows that you prepared, but tread very lightly when criticizing it. The last thing you want is to seem arrogant, nobody likes a new guy coming in, invalidating the team's previous work, and changing everything right away without getting any buy-in.
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Sep 27, 2013 15:03
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A couple times now I've had this question come up in interviews and I'm not sure exactly what they're looking for. "Let's say you have a great idea but your supervisor doesn't like it. How do you proceed?" I answer something along the lines of: I'll try to communicate my idea as clearly as possible, making sure to understand their perspective on it. I'll present the ultimate results of my idea to my supervisor in order to clarify what the end goal is. And then I'll follow up that answer with an example from my work experience of me convincing a supervisor about some good idea. In both cases, the interviewer has followed that up with "What if your supervisor still doesn't want to approve your idea? What do you do then?" To which I say I'll drop the idea or put it on the backshelf for now, as the boss knows better. But it doesn't seem like the interviewers are entirely happy with that answer. Is there something else I'm expected to say?
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Sep 27, 2013 19:56
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Konstantin posted:Do you have an iPad/laptop that you could bring in to show examples of your work? That would be the best solution, but be sure to download your website in case there isn't available Internet. If not, I'd email them and ask them if there is a PC available during your interview to show your examples, and include a link to your website. That's better than printing, since your work wasn't meant to be seen on paper, so there is always some degradation. I'd avoid redesigning their product, as it could be taken as criticism of the people you are going to be working with. I'd mention that you looked at their products, since it shows that you prepared, but tread very lightly when criticizing it. The last thing you want is to seem arrogant, nobody likes a new guy coming in, invalidating the team's previous work, and changing everything right away without getting any buy-in. Cool, thanks! This is good advice.
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Sep 27, 2013 21:05
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me your dad posted:Cool, thanks! This is good advice. That is all such good advice. Regarding the portfolio, I gather from your response that you do have a suitable portable device that you can have a portfolio ready to go, but in case you don't for some reason, printing emails across multiple pages (rather than squeezing them) and putting them in a plastic sleeved portfolio book is fine too. But bringing up samples locally on a tablet or laptop is the best idea, just make sure you aren't fumbling around like crazy trying to get it to work. I had a guy who was so unfamiliar with the workings of (what I assumed was) his own computer that I couldn't really have confidence that he knew his way around one. And don't count on wifi for anything at all, or even a cell signal. A lot of these crappy corporate buildings are like lead boxes. The advice is dead on with redesigning their templates too. You don't know their brand standard details and you don't know why they have what they have. Just show good work from elsewhere and they'll be able to envision you doing same for them. I'm sad to say that there was one guy who was applying to a position I had and who was really eager. I liked him a lot as a person but I was nervous about his experience and readiness for the intense environment. In order to "seal the deal" he made new designs for my company on his own and sent them through his agency. Unfortunately they were so far off the mark that they made my decision to save him the pain of a job he wasn't prepared for. So... don't be that guy.
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Sep 28, 2013 12:35
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After reading this thread, it seems like it is mostly geared towards people already established inside an industry. What kind of technical questions could a new graduate expect in an interview to "prove" his training in school?
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Sep 29, 2013 02:15
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usernamen_01 posted:After reading this thread, it seems like it is mostly geared towards people already established inside an industry. What kind of technical questions could a new graduate expect in an interview to "prove" his training in school? This is largely dependent on your field. They will most likely ask you some basic questions about whatever your field is (and what you should have learned in college) to make sure you aren't an idiot. For example in accounting they will often ask a few basic journal entry type questions. I've heard for software they will ask similar software related questions. If you're looking for industry specific questions you will need to be more specific.
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Sep 29, 2013 03:52
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This is a really good resource if you are prepping for case interviews: http://www.preplounge.com/dashboard.php It makes it so easy to find people to do live cases with.
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Sep 29, 2013 08:41
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Bugamol posted:This is largely dependent on your field. They will most likely ask you some basic questions about whatever your field is (and what you should have learned in college) to make sure you aren't an idiot. Sure... I'll be a EE major with a navy background in RADAR maintenance if that matters. What should I expect?
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Sep 29, 2013 14:00
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usernamen_01 posted:Sure... It depends entirely on what type of job you are interviewing for. I've had interviews that run the gamut from basically no technical questions at all to ones where they keep asking harder and harder questions until they find out what you don't know. Stop by the engineering thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3209369
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Sep 29, 2013 15:53
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usernamen_01 posted:After reading this thread, it seems like it is mostly geared towards people already established inside an industry. What kind of technical questions could a new graduate expect in an interview to "prove" his training in school? It largely depends on the industry, yeah, but also be prepared to answer questions regarding any major school projects, be ready to explain what you specifically did, and some of the technical details behind them.
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Sep 29, 2013 16:07
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