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TaurusOxford posted:Fromsoft, Platinum(although W101 sales aren't going to help), Sony... Sony definitely has their poo poo together... as long as we can completely ignore the Vita.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:43
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TaurusOxford posted:Fromsoft, Platinum(although W101 sales aren't going to help), Sony... Are any of Sony's poo poo-together developers not based in the West? If you say Polyphony I swear to God... zenintrude posted:Sony definitely has their poo poo together... as long as we can completely ignore the Vita. At least with the Vita they have enough of a Plan B for the thing (use as a companion for a PS4, plus Vita TV filling the downmarket void left by the PS2 being gone and the PS3 still costing a lot of money if you're poor) for there to be some kind of hope for it. WiiU barely had a Plan A. TheScott2K fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 14:46
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Level-5, maybe?
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Sep 20, 2013 14:48
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TheScott2K posted:At least with the Vita they have enough of a Plan B for the thing (use as a companion for a PS4, plus Vita TV filling the downmarket void left by the PS2 being gone and the PS3 still costing a lot of money if you're poor) for there to be some kind of hope for it. Throwing really good free games at people via PS+ was also smart... got me to finally pick one up. Maybe Wii U needs Nintendo Network Plus.
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Sep 20, 2013 14:58
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's confusing as poo poo because Nintendo decided to have these games be distinct by "New" at the start when it's really a throwback game (It seriously should have been called Retro Mario Bros.) to 2D platforming but they are not the same games or from the same series. Yeah, Nintendo sure has done a terrible job marketing, naming, and presenting a series that has sold 67 million copies over four titles.  zenintrude posted:Sony definitely has their poo poo together... as long as we can completely ignore the Vita. Nintendo definitely has their poo poo together... as long as we can completely ignore the Wii U.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:00
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Is this really a 137 page-long thread on whether Nintendo is doomed? Would the Wii U be actually incapable of running games for the Xbone and the PS4? And I'm talking about major gameplay elements, and not just extra-shine on fancy graphics. Wii ports used to be majorly downsized, with cut features and levels, but I don't think the Wii U would have that much problem keeping up (unless I'm horribly mistaken).
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Sep 20, 2013 15:07
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horriblePencilist posted:Is this really a 137 page-long thread on whether Nintendo is doomed? Pretty much yes, it will likely have problems running those games and if you need a clear extant examplate look at the Wii port of Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop Edition. Graphically its a little worse but very noticeably the mall is basically empty because the Wii couldn't handle more zombies on screen which basically killed any reason to play the game. Expect something similar should there be future Bone/4 ports back to the WiiU.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:17
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deadwing posted:Yeah, Nintendo sure has done a terrible job marketing, naming, and presenting a series that has sold 67 million copies over four titles. But see, the New Super Mario Bros. series is a success despite terrible marketing and naming. I am completely aware that while bitching about those games, they are some of the most successful games in the last 10 years. That doesn't change the fact the name has sucked since the DS game (and people complained about it back then!) and they just get worse as time goes on and they add more modifiers so you know it's a new game in the series. The Mario franchise has so many games attached to it. There's seriously sub-series. If you had to name the games you'd have to split between 2D platformers and 3D platformers. But some people can't tell the difference unless the games go through a serious graphic style change. Adding "3D" to the title and naming it after an older title in the Mario series isn't enough to convince people it's a brand new game to the last title that had Mario in the title. That's a bad thing. It could have easily been changed by Nintendo not showing the first levels in 3D World and only the levels that make the game look drastically different to NSMBU.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:17
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horriblePencilist posted:
It has a quarter of the RAM as the PS4, so enjoy chopped-down level sizes, less NPCs at once and the like. It also only has an 8GB hard drive in a lot of the models, which means that any large game that needs the hard drive (pretty much any of the next-gen ones) is going to have a lot of problems. There's a pretty massive power gulf, so you'd need to basically remake the game entirely, and there's no market, so why would you do that? And anything that actually takes advantage of all the extra power for gameplay elements, there's no way in hell that would work. There might not be too many of those now, but once developers have some experience with the console there definitely will.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:18
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's confusing as poo poo because Nintendo decided to have these games be distinct by "New" at the start when it's really a throwback game (It seriously should have been called Retro Mario Bros.) to 2D platforming but they are not the same games or from the same series. Retro Mario Bros. is an equally as horrible name, because it stops being retro after 4 releases in 7 years, just like the series is no longer new. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 15:21
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Astro7x posted:Retro Mario Bros. is an equally as horrible name, because it stops being retro after 4 releases in 7 years, just like the series is no longer new. Good point. Maybe they should have just given it a name like Mario Prime
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Sep 20, 2013 15:22
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horriblePencilist posted:Is this really a 137 page-long thread on whether Nintendo is doomed? It's really a 137 page-long holding pen for those of us who have a lot of feelings to express about the last fifteen years of Nintendo quote:Would the Wii U be actually incapable of running games for the Xbone and the PS4? And I'm talking about major gameplay elements, and not just extra-shine on fancy graphics. Wii ports used to be majorly downsized, with cut features and levels, but I don't think the Wii U would have that much problem keeping up (unless I'm horribly mistaken). You're horribly mistaken. It's not just turning a few graphics settings down. Between the lower specs and the WiiU running a completely different architecture than the two real consoles this generation, meaning that not only are you dealing with significantly lower specs you are also dealing with hardware that is unique. This will likely lead to almost nobody bothering to port anything, save for the occasional cobbled together repackaging of last-generation assets for sure-seller franchises. I wouldn't be surprised to see Activision poo poo out a "Call of Duty Modern Warfare: Director's Cut" product or something along those lines.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:22
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It has a quarter of the RAM as the PS4, so enjoy chopped-down level sizes, less NPCs at once and the like. It also only has an 8GB hard drive in a lot of the models, which means that any large game that needs the hard drive (pretty much any of the next-gen ones) is going to have a lot of problems. There's a pretty massive power gulf, so you'd need to basically remake the game entirely, and there's no market, so why would you do that? And anything that actually takes advantage of all the extra power for gameplay elements, there's no way in hell that would work. There might not be too many of those now, but once developers have some experience with the console there definitely will. Hey now, it's actually less than 1/4 when you look at the usable RAM when you take into consideration the PS4's huge OS with all the poo poo it's trying to do. I think the numbers are more like: PS4: 4.5GB XBO: 5GB WiiU: 1GB It's actually kind of amazing what developers were able to do with 256MB of RAM on the PS3. Edit: You are also assuming that all games will take advantage of the full power of the PS4 which just isn't true. We've already discussed in this thread how the different archtecture of the WiiU will make it far more difficult for ports. It will be telling what Ubisoft does with Watchdogs on the Wii U and how everything compares between the 5 systems. Astro7x fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 15:27
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Astro7x posted:Edit: You are also assuming that all games will take advantage of the full power of the PS4 which just isn't true. We've already discussed in this thread how the different archtecture of the WiiU will make it far more difficult for ports. It will be telling what Ubisoft does with Watchdogs on the Wii U and how everything compares between the 5 systems. Some NES and SNES games blow me away with what they were able to get away with considering the restraints. Games like Castlevania III are just incredible pieces of technology. It's loving art just to get all of that crammed in.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:33
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:But see, the New Super Mario Bros. series is a success despite terrible marketing and naming. I am completely aware that while bitching about those games, they are some of the most successful games in the last 10 years. That doesn't change the fact the name has sucked since the DS game (and people complained about it back then!) and they just get worse as time goes on and they add more modifiers so you know it's a new game in the series. I don't think it's any worse than, say, Call of Duty going COD4: Modern Warfare --> World At War --> Modern Warfare 2 --> Black Ops --> Modern Warfare 3 --> Black Ops 2. As of right now, all the New Super Mario Bros. games are all on different systems, and I'm sure consumers associate the "New" tag with 2D platforming at this point, and the "3D" tag with 3D platforming. 3D Land and 3D World are on different systems, I really don't think people will get confused between the two. The name Wii U is still a problem, for sure, but I don't think the Mario line has issues right now.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:33
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deadwing posted:3D Land and 3D World are on different systems, I really don't think people will get confused between the two. The confusion is actually people thinking New Super Mario Bros. U and Super Mario 3D World are in the same line. Some here have even treated 3D World like it's a sequel to U.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:34
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Astro7x posted:Hey now, it's actually less than 1/4 when you look at the usable RAM when you take into consideration the PS4's huge OS with all the poo poo it's trying to do. I think the numbers are more like: Looks like the rest of the list is right, but the PS4 has 5.5GB usable instead of 4.5 (EDIT: Maybe it is 4.5? I keep seeing articles from the end of July saying either number). As for the full power, yeah, they won't use it all, but it's telling just how huge the gulf is between the WiiU and the upcoming consoles. Watchdogs will be interesting because it's coming out for goddamn everything- if I had to guess, the WiiU version will just be the 360/PS3 version with maybe a few graphical touchups and something you can do on the gamepad. I don't know why you'd put much extra effort into a WiiU port at this point in the game.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:35
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Remember the old Wii commercials? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bygdnz2gZIQ They were actually really good and showed off what the system was about well. Wii U needs something like this.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:38
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Looks like the rest of the list is right, but the PS4 has 5.5GB usable instead of 4.5 (EDIT: Maybe it is 4.5? I keep seeing articles from the end of July saying either number). As for the full power, yeah, they won't use it all, but it's telling just how huge the gulf is between the WiiU and the upcoming consoles. Watchdogs will be interesting because it's coming out for goddamn everything- if I had to guess, the WiiU version will just be the 360/PS3 version with maybe a few graphical touchups and something you can do on the gamepad. I don't know why you'd put much extra effort into a WiiU port at this point in the game. It's all the more proof that Nintendo should have once again tried to be the economic console instead of going after next gen gamers.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:39
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:The confusion is actually people thinking New Super Mario Bros. U and Super Mario 3D World are in the same line. Some here have even treated 3D World like it's a sequel to U. I'm assuming Nintendo is actually planning on advertising this holiday season so that shouldn't be an issue. Who knows though. 
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Sep 20, 2013 15:40
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deadwing posted:I'm assuming Nintendo is actually planning on advertising this holiday season so that shouldn't be an issue. I pulled this quote from an investors QA on the last page regarding advertising quote:Iwata: In terms of the breakdown into the half-year periods, we don’t have any first-party key software for Wii U until July. We will, to some extent, concentrate our marketing activities from the summer towards the end of the year. With regard to Nintendo 3DS, in contrast, we will synchronize our promotional activities with the release of each much-anticipated title. By the nature of Nintendo’s business structure, sales grow most significantly around the year-end sales season, and as consumers around this period do not necessarily seek information proactively, we need to employ fairly large-scale advertising activities. Instead of pursuing similar advertising endeavors throughout the year, we strive to adapt them accordingly. Sounds like to me they realize sales remain flat during the year, and instead of wasting advertising dollars on Pikmin 3 which is not going to sell systems, they are saving that money to focus on all the games they have coming out in Oct-Dec. Paper Jam Dipper posted:The confusion is actually people thinking New Super Mario Bros. U and Super Mario 3D World are in the same line. Some here have even treated 3D World like it's a sequel to U. Where is this confusion coming from, one guy in the thread? It sells phenomenally on the systems it's on, I don't think anybody is confused that. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/index.html There are plenty of more obvious and bigger things to insult Nintendo for. I don't think the confusion between these games is one of them. For me personally the naming of the Call of Duty franchise is much more confusing to me personally because I never played them. I couldn't tell you the difference between Modern Warfare, World at War, Black Ops or whatever any of those games fall linearly. Are they sequels or their own story? I have no loving idea. But people that buy it knows what each game is and it's insanely popular. That's all that pretty much matters.
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Sep 20, 2013 15:56
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Remember how we talked about GTAV sales vs Wii U total software sales a little while back? Well, as of June (8 months of sales) total Wii U software sold worldwide was 14.4 million units. In 3 days on sale GTAV sold ~16 million units give or take a little depending on CE sales (Take Two reported $1 billion in revenue for the first 3 days, which is 16.67 million units at $60). So... yeah.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:24
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You can't just divide revenue by price to get units sold. They don't get $60 per unit moved of revenue. A bunch of people get a cut first. Part of the price is retailer margin, part of it goes to Sony or Microsoft.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:33
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greatn posted:You can't just divide revenue by price to get units sold. They don't get $60 per unit moved of revenue. A bunch of people get a cut first. Part of the price is retailer margin, part of it goes to Sony or Microsoft. I worded that badly. They didn't report their revenue, the $1 billion is total retail sales. They get somewhere between 30%-50% of that depending on the country, which means they're well in the black on their $265 million development + marketing budget already.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:36
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Ah, retail sales, will that's different. Wasn't their goal 18 million units lifetime sales? And they're higher than 16 already? Nintendo should name their next console the Nintendo Grand Theft Auto 6.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:41
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GTA: SA has sold 27 million copies in the 9 years since it's been out, and GTA IV has sold 24 million in the 5 years it's been out plus quite a few million purchases of the Episodes. I don't think 18 million was their target for lifetime sales for V. Maybe for first month sales.
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Sep 20, 2013 17:46
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greatn posted:You can't just divide revenue by price to get units sold. They don't get $60 per unit moved of revenue. A bunch of people get a cut first. Part of the price is retailer margin, part of it goes to Sony or Microsoft. Nelson: Hey, look how much Skinner makes--$25,000 a year! (the kids are impressed) Bart: (typing into a calculator) Let's see, he's 40 years old, times $25 grand...whoa, he's a millionaire! I'm assuming these two charts are probably accurate... http://www.giantbomb.com/images/1300-1289873 http://www.newgamernation.com/editorial-is-the-60-dollar-price-point-too-high/ Even at $27 a game going, GTA5 had a much bigger budget (advertising and development) than the typical video game. In other news... Sony gave a little more details about the PS4 being sold at a loss, including mentioning they are looking to recoup the cost on games, accessories, and Playstation Plus with no specifics on how much it will take to break even. Seems like they are not exactly one software sale away from being profitable either. http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/20/4751416/playstation-4-hardware-loss-sony-tgs
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Sep 20, 2013 17:52
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^^It'll probably be just a couple of games, same as the Wii U is now. Probably about what the Bone will be too. PS+/XBL must be massively profitable as wellquote:"but in terms of cost of development it's very different from the PlayStation 3. We will be able to recover what we have invested earlier [than with PS3]." Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's all the more proof that Nintendo should have once again tried to be the economic console instead of going after next gen gamers. They compromised between being powerful, cheap, and unique. The tablet means it can't be that cheap, cheaping out on the components and memory means it isn't that powerful, etc. Wonder if they knew the nextgen consoles were going x86 when they built the Wii U.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:27
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Being less powerful doesn't even mean that it's easier to program for, it just means that the graphical standards are lower. I'm sure indie developers would prefer a platform that allows them to port over their PC code with the minimum difficulty, and larger developers would like to get their game running without having to squeeze it in to fit the system's limitations.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:34
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TaurusOxford posted:Fromsoft, Platinum(although W101 sales aren't going to help), Sony... From Software only has their poo poo together if you ignore every game they make that isn't Dark Souls. Another Century's Episode R was loving awful. Armored Core veers all over the place.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:37
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ImpAtom posted:From Software only has their poo poo together if you ignore every game they make that isn't Dark Souls. Another Century's Episode R was loving awful. Armored Core veers all over the place. They're a very uneven developer but they made Chromehounds as well as the complete design messes that were Otogi and Enchanted Arms so yeah, they're pretty not-together.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:45
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Is the Xbox One the next Sega Saturn?
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Sep 20, 2013 18:45
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LOSS posted:Is the Xbox One the next Sega Saturn? No. The Saturn sold well in Japan.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:46
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LOSS posted:Is the Xbox One the next Sega Saturn? If it gets Panzer Dragoon Saga 2 I won't care.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:46
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LOSS posted:Is the Xbox One the next Sega Saturn? For a while there, it was the next PSPgo
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Sep 20, 2013 18:47
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I think Platinum has its poo poo together about the same as the WiiU (and not just because W101 is on it). They make great games if you like high skill-curve mastery brawler-likes (which I do), but I don't think any of their games have been major successes, just "made a profit, loved by a niche" since the Clover days. Kamiya had Devil May Cry thirteen years ago and its been pretty mellow since then.
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Sep 20, 2013 18:54
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's all the more proof that Nintendo should have once again tried to be the economic console instead of going after next gen gamers. Actually I think it's exactly the opposite, which was my original point. Nintendo can expect basically zero third party support if they keep releasing consoles a generation behind the competitors, because why would you spend the effort making new games for a third of the market at absolute best? I don't think Nintendo is capable of producing enough system sellers to keep a platform afloat by themselves, and in any case they haven't been lately. The last conventionally successful (ie not based on gimmicks to draw people in) console they had was the GC, and that was as powerful as the competitors and had a few big name third party titles. I think what they should do is return to that strategy, because at the very least it was mildly successful, as opposed to the trainwreck that is the WiiU. This is what I mean by have their cake and eat it too. They want to release cheapo consoles a generation late, but they are apparently unable to do the extra work required to support the system with games by themselves. It may be entirely unreasonable to expect a single company to do that, and in that case the only option is to start competing directly with the Xbox and Playstation again. TL/DR Nintendo's problem is their 'economic console' strategy
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Sep 20, 2013 18:55
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The "economic" console this generation is probably gonna be the cheap continuing availability of the 360 and PS3 in ever more cost-reduced versions.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:04
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They tried to get the Wii lightning to strike twice, which would allow them to coast by with occasional instalments of their most popular franchises while tens of millions of non-gamers buy it for sports and weight loss, except with a tablet to draw them in rather than motion controls. It didn't work, and now they have a console that appeals to nobody except the people who only bought it because they're Nintendo fans. They could invest the R&D to design a console that could compete with the PS4 and Xbox One on their own terms, as well as overhaul their development process to allow them to develop games two generations ahead of what they're used to, but I can't say whether it could have gone worse than putting no effort into a system that became a complete flop. They could have put that $5 Billion warchest to good use, but instead they're subsisting off it and their 3DS sales to prop up the Wii U. I wonder what they would be doing if the 3DS was a failure too? If the 3D effect really did burn out children's retinas, possibly. Their shareholders wouldn't let them keep brushing their hardware sales under the rug.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:06
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icantfindaname posted:...because why would you spend the effort making new games for a third of the market at absolute best? System exclusives happen all the time, usually system exclusive publishers get a break on licensing costs, get paid for the exclusivity, or get their advertising paid for. I'm pretty sure Nintendo paid for these Lego City ads to be made, and they didn't develop the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYDrVnj90SM
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Sep 20, 2013 19:08
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