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Nintendo published Lego City actually.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:09
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Install Windows posted:The "economic" console this generation is probably gonna be the cheap continuing availability of the 360 and PS3 in ever more cost-reduced versions.
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Sep 20, 2013 19:11
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Crowbear posted:I worded that badly. They didn't report their revenue, the $1 billion is total retail sales. You still can't just divide that number by $60, because GTA was also being sold in premium special editions costing $80 and $150. Without knowing the ratios of regular/special/collectors editions sold, you can't take total retail sales and get a figure of copies sold. EDIT: Also, there is a PS3 bundle including GTA V, so this number may be including those bundle sales. I seem to recall that there was talk that COD's figure was including bundle sales to inflate their retail sales number. thefncrow fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 19:15
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icantfindaname posted:TL/DR Nintendo's problem is their 'economic console' strategy If Nintendo made a console that was: - HD - Strong enough to produce games that the PS3 and 360 can in 2013 - Cost $200 to purchase with a game at launch (and still played Wii games) - Indie friendly to the point where anyone making a game for PC can make it for the eShop with no extra cost to them (and allow them to set their own pricing) - Provided a steady stream of games that people wanted without having to wait almost a year for them to get completed (so 3D World, Mario Kart, Wii Fit and Pikmin available in the first six months) - Included free online play and a built in rental service for all eShop games That console would have sold like loving crazy. Japan doesn't give two fucks about the XB1 or PS4 based on current market polls (http://kotaku.com/japanese-poll-few-people-want-to-buy-the-xbox-one-or-834901669) and a big reason is believed to be cost. Sony and Microsoft still rely on the middle class to buy these high priced consoles and there looks to be less money to spend than there was in 2005. Nintendo has thrived on being the economic choice and the only hope they have with the Wii U is if they can get it to the lowest price point possible. The industry is spending well beyond their means. Nintendo is currently failing with the little catch up they've tried to do. It ain't like the Wii U is a Tiger Electronics toy. It's about being a Nintendo 3DS when there's a Vita on the market.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:00
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If Nintendo made a console that was:
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Sep 20, 2013 21:04
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:It's about being a Nintendo 3DS when there's a Vita on the market. You're aware that the Vita has sold 3 million units over about a year versus the 3DS selling 33 million over about 2 and a half years right? In other words, really really terribly.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:05
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Install Windows posted:You're aware that the Vita has sold 3 million units over about a year versus the 3DS selling 33 million over about 2 and a half years right? In other words, really really terribly. Vita has been out for over a year and a half... it's not doing well.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:10
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Install Windows posted:You're aware that the Vita has sold 3 million units over about a year versus the 3DS selling 33 million over about 2 and a half years right? In other words, really really terribly. Vita is the Wii U of the portable market in terms of sales. However, the Wii U is the 3DS of the "lateral thinking with withered technology" market. When did the 3DS sell? After a price drop and better games came out. Same won't exactly happen for the Wii U, but it could have avoided being in its current situation if it was very affordable from the get go.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:12
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If Nintendo made a console that was: You forgot -Launched in 2010 when the Wii brand still meant something and it could ride out 3 more years of that gen's development dollars
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Sep 20, 2013 21:15
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Addendum: Had advertising worth a drat.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:18
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AdmiralViscen posted:You forgot I 100% agree: - Launch in 2010 - Release the new Wii console with the Wii Motion Plus controls and Sports REsort and release the Wii U Pro controller with it for the third party companies - Make Super Mario Galaxy 2 in HD your big launch title - Convert Skyward Sword, Wii Fit Plus, DKCR, Epic Mickey and Epic Yard into HD titles. Of course this all probably takes some hindsight. Whatever.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:22
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This is some good poo poo, I'm going to call 2009 still alive Yamauchi and have him pass it along.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:24
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:I 100% agree: Alternatively launch with top of the line hardware like your competitors, drop any notion of backwards compatibility and use your biggest IPs as launch titles. Alternatively alternative make the console into a tablet that can connect via wireless HDMI to a television. Make space for plugins such as control sticks and what have you. Edit: Also kill the old men who for some reason are in charge of marketing and put in a 50/50 split of hipsters and top ad men.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:29
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If Nintendo made a console that was:
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Sep 20, 2013 21:31
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I'm going out of town this week and won't have access to a TV... sure would have been nice if GTAV released on a console that had its own screen for playing games on it.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:31
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waffle posted:I think you're mostly spot-on, though I think Japan will become generally an increasingly difficult territory for home consoles--the handheld gaming market has really taken over gaming as a whole, from what I've heard. A cheap Nintendo console (that would have come out years ago) might be able to pierce that market better than a very expensive PS4/XBone, but I don't think that's necessarily assured. How big is the home market? Is it big enough to support a console/game giant like Nintendo while also giving alms to Sony?
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Sep 20, 2013 21:32
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If Nintendo made a console that was: So, basically the Wii U minus the tablet and delayed for half a year?
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Sep 20, 2013 21:32
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:If Nintendo made a console that was: The Wii U already does the first two, it's actually supposed to be better than the PS3 and the 360. The architecture for those systems, however, is already a known quantity, and they have almost 80 million consoles sold worldwide. Everything else you want is basically in reaction to either the Wii U's software drought, or the competition having done it first (Nintendo is pretty much unfriendly to indies and third parties historically, you might as well wish for Nintendo to be a different company than it is). The rental stuff is cool...but that's not enough to push the eShop into being anything but a massive embarassment. The eShop needs to enhance its primary service (the purchase of content, ANY content). This would mean making Virtual Console not a joke. This would mean allowing people to buy Wii games digitally at a reduced price. This would mean having competitive pricing with the competition and retail. This would mean special sales events. Your dream console still runs into the problem of trying to leap into an already established market of nearly 160 million consoles, with the only advantage being Nintendo games (and you have not suggested anything that fixes mainstream third party support, which is kinda important because there will always be droughts for consoles). It would still be arriving at a time where technically development for the PS3 and 360 has reached some of it's highest peaks, with tools already established for developers to use. With the move to standardized hardware from both the Xbone and the PS4, developers are still going to be more likely to try and put games out for those systems first, because they can cater easily to PCs and two of the main console brands. If Nintendo's solution at this point still involves hardware that is drastically different from the competition in both power and architecture, they're going to keep struggling at attracting third party support. Paper Jam Dipper posted:When did the 3DS sell? After a price drop and better games came out. Same won't exactly happen for the Wii U, but it could have avoided being in its current situation if it was very affordable from the get go. The Wii U situation is significantly worse than the 3DS ever was. We've already had a price drop announced, and there ARE good games on the system now, and that doesn't seem to mean poo poo. We had the sequel to one of the most popular Mario games OF ALL TIME as a launch title, and that seemingly didn't do squat post launch. The third party line-up did include some pretty rad titles for people who haven't played them yet (specifically Tekken), and it didn't mean squat. Platinum gave us The Wonderful 101, possibly one of the best games we will see all year IMO, and it got outsold in JAPAN by Killzone on the Vita (think about that poo poo for a moment  ). The Wii U is the follow-up to a system that more or less got abandoned two years ago. The 3DS followed up a system that was still seeing support (and is still seeing some support). How far back are you willing to move the goal posts before you finally see that the Wii U's situation isn't exactly analogous to the 3DS? Is Wind Waker going to revitalize the system? Is Donkey Kong going to revitalize the system? Mario Kart? A new Zelda?
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Sep 20, 2013 21:33
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deadwing posted:So, basically the Wii U minus the tablet and delayed for half a year? Yes, even though I loving love the Gamepad. I really do. Like every Nintendo controller before it just feels like it was made for my hands.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:35
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I do remember when Nintendo did that HD tech demo at the one E3, thinking "okay well.. I honestly don't know if that's impressive or not, but I can't wait to see them bust their rear end on an HD Mario Galaxy-esque game with the fully orchestrated soundtrack and the amazing art direction and just rock that poo poo." And then they unveiled Mario 3D World 
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Sep 20, 2013 21:37
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Half a year of delay could do wonders for development of the system selling titles. Stuff like actually being released in a timely manner.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:37
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zenintrude posted:I'm going out of town this week and won't have access to a TV... sure would have been nice if GTAV released on a console that had its own screen for playing games on it. AFAIK the vita will be able to do this (not sure about PS3 titles but PS4 remote play is supposed to be a thing) Needs wi-fi of course, though.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:39
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Spiffo posted:AFAIK the vita will be able to do this (not sure about PS3 titles but PS4 remote play is supposed to be a thing) Also needs a $200 peripheral.
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Sep 20, 2013 21:45
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Bruceski posted:Also needs a $200 peripheral. What about if we sold him a $350 one with no games?
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Sep 20, 2013 21:49
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Spiffo posted:AFAIK the vita will be able to do this (not sure about PS3 titles but PS4 remote play is supposed to be a thing)
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Sep 20, 2013 21:53
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Quest For Glory II posted:The PS4 isn't backwards compatible with PS3 titles so you won't be able to remote play old games. PS3 titles supported by remote play is a super small list and it's a lovely transcoding job because the PS3 doesn't have a chip dedicated to it like PS4/Wii U do so there's major input lag and blurry video. Yeah, I meant like future titles on the PS4. Not GTAV, but the inevitable GTA6? It's a work in progress anyway. Bruceski posted:Also needs a $200 peripheral. I thought PS4 was supposed to do this out of the box (unless you mean the Vita itself)
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Sep 20, 2013 22:01
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Quest For Glory II posted:I do remember when Nintendo did that HD tech demo at the one E3, thinking "okay well.. I honestly don't know if that's impressive or not, but I can't wait to see them bust their rear end on an HD Mario Galaxy-esque game with the fully orchestrated soundtrack and the amazing art direction and just rock that poo poo." One thing to note is that Nintendo enjoys their games selling well in Japan. We've seen with Zelda and Metroid that they will develop new entries aimed at Japanese consumers even if the series has stronger popularity in the West. The Super Mario Galaxy games were very successful but didn't do as well in Japan as they did in North America/Europe. With SMG2, they incorporated more 2D gameplay segments and an instructional DVD in order to attract 2D Mario players. However, the game still didn't wasn't as successful as the 2D NSMB games were in Japan. Super Mario 3D Land was designed ground up as a bridge game between 2D and 3D.SM 3D Land sold much better than the SMG2. Worldwide, it's keeping pace with the Galaxy games. I think 3D World is the closest Nintendo has gotten to merging the basic 2D Mario game design with a 3D world and multiplayer.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:04
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They also just make lil' portable monitors that can be carried around about as easily as carrying around laptops. They don't have batteries but if it's a situation where a Wii U could work you already have access to a power outlet in the first place.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:05
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Sunning posted:One thing to note is that Nintendo enjoys their games selling well in Japan. We've seen with Zelda and Metroid that they will develop new entries aimed at Japanese consumers even if the series has stronger popularity in the West. The Super Mario Galaxy games were very successful but didn't do as well in Japan as they did in North America/Europe. With SMG2, they incorporated more 2D gameplay segments and an instructional DVD in order to attract 2D Mario players. However, the game still didn't wasn't as successful as the 2D NSMB games were in Japan. The thing is, with these low effort titles, "less effort is more profitable for us" worked.. INITIALLY. But Nintendo expected New Super Mario U to move millions of Wii U units and it didn't. It has a high attach rate, but compared to past entries in the series, its sales will be looked at as a disaster for that line of the franchise. New Super Mario Bros sold 30 million copies, and New Super Mario Wii sold 27 million copies, but NSMB2 has sold 6 million and NSMBU has sold only 2 million. That's what we call diminishing returns. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 22:17
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Quest For Glory II posted:I don't mind Nintendo doing a game that is more Crash Bandicoot than Mario (which is how I view the 3D Land series) but would it kill them to make it not look so incredibly uninspired? A lot of plain colored blocks and re-used environments all the way through the game, and very "map editor"-feeling levels instead of levels that all feel unique and interesting. As I said earlier, I think Nintendo is over-conservative in this regard when it comes to their mainline Mario games. They don't seem to want to risk doing something that will drive away people. They're less conservative in some (but not all) of their spinoff games but the mainline games they really appear desperate to keep the audience who absolutely does not want to play something new or unfamiliar. Quest For Glory II posted:The thing is, with these low effort titles, "less effort is more profitable for us" worked.. INITIALLY. But Nintendo expected New Super Mario U to move millions of Wii U units and it didn't. It has a high attach rate, but compared to past entries in the series, its sales will be looked at as a disaster for that line of the franchise. New Super Mario Bros sold 30 million copies, and New Super Mario Wii sold 27 million copies, but NSMB2 has sold 6 million and NSMBU has sold only 2 million. That's what we call diminishing returns. It is worth noting that NSMB did not sell all 30 million in one year. The really successful Mario games are a bit of an outlier in that they continue to sell for long periods of time. Mario Kart 7 for the DS is still outselling (yearly, obviously) a good number of brand new titles. I suspect that has an impact on how Nintendo views diminishing returns. NSMB2 has sold 6 million copies but Nintendo probably expects it to keep selling for multiple years. I don't think they're right in this case. (NSMB2 has shown a much larger dropoff) but they're probably banking on that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 22:20
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Japan doesn't give two fucks about the XB1 or PS4 based on current market polls (http://kotaku.com/japanese-poll-few-people-want-to-buy-the-xbox-one-or-834901669) I don't understand how people look at that poll and conclude that there's no interest in Japan for next gen consoles. This isn't a poll of current console owners or people looking to buy a new console in general, it's a poll of 1000 random Japanese people, almost half of them women, and almost half of them over 40. It covers a pretty wide spread of the population. If a third of Japan wants to own a PS4 eventually that's like 40 million units sold. How is that "bad"? I'm not surprised that Brian Ashcraft (one of the absolute worst people in the industry) misinterpreted the results, but I am surprised that people just took his analysis at face value. Crowbear fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 22:28
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Crowbear posted:I don't understand how people look at that poll and conclude that there's no interest in Japan for next gen consoles. This isn't a poll of current console owners or people looking to buy a new console in general, it's a poll of 1000 random Japanese people, almost half of them women, and almost half of them over 40. It covers a pretty wide spread of the population. If a third of Japan want to own a PS4 eventually that's like 40 million units sold. How is that "bad"? Japan is not actually a market where you can ignore women and people over 40. The median age in Japan is 45 years. They are an old-rear end country. That actually does represent a worryingly low level of interest from Japanese consumers. That isn't to say the reading is 100% accurate (it's Kotaku after all) but it involving people over 40 is actually pretty relevant to Japanese buying habits.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:31
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ImpAtom posted:Japan is not actually a market where you can ignore women and people over 40. The median age in Japan is 45 years. They are an old-rear end country. That actually does represent a worryingly low level of interest from Japanese consumers. Actually you can ignore particularly people over 40, because just about everywhere the people most likely to buy consoles is the same people most sold to for everything - the 18-35 crowd. Aside from the Wii which managed to be a standout console that also had older people buying it. In Japan, the Wii sold 12.7 million units and the PS3 sold 8.3 million units as of this summer. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Sep 20, 2013 |
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Sep 20, 2013 22:36
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ImpAtom posted:Japan is not actually a market where you can ignore women and people over 40. The median age in Japan is 45 years. They are an old-rear end country. That actually does represent a worryingly low level of interest from Japanese consumers. That's what I'm saying, the study does involve women and people over 40, and still 10% said they wanted a PS4 at launch and 25% said not at launch but they are interested in it. That's not a worrying level of interest at all! 10% seems really low at first glance but if taken in the context of a random sample of the population it's actually way, way higher than it should be. I mean poo poo, only 7% of Japan's population has bought a PS3 over the last 7 years.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:37
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Install Windows posted:Actually you can ignore particularly people over 40, because just about everywhere the people most likely to buy consoles is the same people most sold to for everything - the 18-35 crowd. The Wii sold more in Japan specifically because they targeted the older demographics because Japan's younger demographics are increasingly shrinking. A console that wants to really succeed there does need older purchasers these days. (Especially with their trend towards handhelds) Crowbear posted:That's what I'm saying, the study does involve women and people over 40, and still 10% said they wanted a PS4 at launch and 25% said not at launch but they are interested in it. That's not a worrying level of interest at all! 10% seems really low at first glance but if taken in the context of a random sample of the population it's actually way, way higher than it should be. You're not wrong but it isn't an entirely random poll. According to the website, it's done with mobile phone and internet questionares and should have skewed more towards the people more likely to be interested in a console system, not just random Japanese customers. As I said, Kotaku is exaggerating it, but just based on what the website says, they should have expected a higher outcome. It's not quite "CONSOLES ARE DOOMED" but Sony probably needs to push a bit harder to actually drive interest, especially in the wake of the delay. (Microsoft is hosed no matter what.)
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Sep 20, 2013 22:47
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ImpAtom posted:As I said earlier, I think Nintendo is over-conservative in this regard when it comes to their mainline Mario games. They don't seem to want to risk doing something that will drive away people. They're less conservative in some (but not all) of their spinoff games but the mainline games they really appear desperate to keep the audience who absolutely does not want to play something new or unfamiliar. I hate them for this because any time they take a game out of its generally expected structure and style it's universally appreciated and sells great (Link's Adventure, Yoshi's Island, Mario 64, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, etc.) despite a vocal minority of folk angry about how they were "betrayed."
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Sep 20, 2013 22:54
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You could and should ignore the Japanese market, especially if catering to the Japanese market alienates the western one.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:55
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ImpAtom posted:The Wii sold more in Japan specifically because they targeted the older demographics because Japan's younger demographics are increasingly shrinking. A console that wants to really succeed there does need older purchasers these days. (Especially with their trend towards handhelds) And Japan's older demographics have their savings and money on hand in general shrinking pretty badly too, so they remain an undesirable demographic.
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Sep 20, 2013 22:55
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Boiled Water posted:You could and should ignore the Japanese market, especially if catering to the Japanese market alienates the western one. When your shareholders are Japanese and your employees are Japanese, you're not really going to be able to ignore Japan even if it would be the most sensible thing to do. Install Windows posted:And Japan's older demographics have their savings and money on hand in general shrinking pretty badly too, so they remain an undesirable demographic. This is a problem with Japan in general, not just the older demographic, and is why they're in such dire straits to begin with.
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Sep 20, 2013 23:04
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I still don't get how on earth the 'crippled tablet' idea didn't get laughed out of the building. I get that they probably saw the Wii's success and were after the next big gimmick, but couldn't they come up with anything better? Jesus, nintendo shares dropped 5% when they announced it, maybe they should have taken a second look at the idea then. Even ignoring the usual Nintendo treatment of third parties, the gimmick pretty much has to be an afterthought on any ports to the console, and makes ports from it near-impossible. Surely someone could have figured that out before this clusterfuck?
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Sep 20, 2013 23:05
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