|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:What almost certainly happened is your neutral failed. No, angryrobots had it right. I checked the voltage phase-phase and phase-neutral and I watched them tie in the temporary cable. It was definitely one of the legs. angryrobots posted:Eventually, if you continued to attempt to pull current through the bad spot, it would have burnt in two. That's what was starting to happen when you saw the lights dim and your UPS kicked on. Well I was assuming the conductor was touching dirt (earth) where it started burning up so why wouldn't the transformer just feed power right into the ground? Now that I think about it, would it be the impedance of the dirt being too high to let current flow freely? It has been especially dry (Texas summer). quote:Yeah, the bigger feed-through meterbases (400a) that don't have CT metering have those. The idea being that a serviceman can remove/change the meter without breaking the load, because assuming the service is fully loaded that's a bit of load to break. However when somebody doesn't pay their bill and comes up for disconnect, guess what has to happen? They're a PITA to put disconnect boots on, too. Makes sense; I knew we didn't lose power during the smart meter switchover and I guess I got an hour of free electricity during the repair, heh. The one thing they did right was installing 200A service; It's so old, the panel still has a sticker stating that it is property of Texas Electric and the 200A main breaker is bigger than an Xbox 360 power brick; I expected a 100A panel when I bought the house and was pleasantly surprised. Learning it was Pushmatic was less pleasant.
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 05:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:35 |
|
|
I may end up bringing in an electrician to do this breaker replacement anyways, due to a total inability to figure out what breakers fit this goddamn panel. Apparently, breaker panels are meant to have a list of compatible breaker types on the inside of the door. This one doesn't! It is apparently an "Amalgamated Electric Uni-Centre", a box from a company that was hugely popular here decades ago but no longer exists. One of the breakers in it is a Seimens. The others have no obvious make. Unless someone here happens to know what breakers will fit in a 70s AE Uni-Centre breaker box, my best bet may be to just punt to a professional electrician and let them deal with the headache of figuring out what breakers will fit (and won't make insurance unhappy).
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:05
|
|
|
I would use that Siemens breaker to start backtracking... but when you're dealing with something like this there's no shame in letting a licensed pro figure it out instead of worrying whether you made the right call on what breaker is correct or incorrect-but-it-kinda-fits-anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:08
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:I may end up bringing in an electrician to do this breaker replacement anyways, due to a total inability to figure out what breakers fit this goddamn panel. Apparently, breaker panels are meant to have a list of compatible breaker types on the inside of the door. This one doesn't! It is apparently an "Amalgamated Electric Uni-Centre", a box from a company that was hugely popular here decades ago but no longer exists. Just take one of your breakers out (preferably that Siemens) and take it to your local electrical supplier. They should be able to help you find one that fits.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:12
|
|
|
Ender.uNF posted:Well I was assuming the conductor was touching dirt (earth) where it started burning up so why wouldn't the transformer just feed power right into the ground? Now that I think about it, would it be the impedance of the dirt being too high to let current flow freely? It has been especially dry (Texas summer). I've seen our primary wire torn down (7200v phase-to-ground), burning on the ground, there not being enough fault current to trigger the recloser or fuse that was supposed to protect it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
Here's something to make the thread laugh/cry: I was hoping I could get a look at the wiring setup of my new rental by going through the ceiling tiles into the tiny attic visible from the street. ...nope.  Turns out I have a real ceiling, it just looks like poo poo, so they put up a new one, six inches lower and extended the wires for the ceiling fixtures. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 21:30
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:Here's something to make the thread laugh/cry: That's all pretty typical, and the only problem there is that they didn't enclose the splice in the box (and didn't use enough wire to make that happen). On the scale of "dangerous electrical", that's way way down the list.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2013 21:36
|
|
|
Bobulus posted:Here's something to make the thread laugh/cry:
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 00:56
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:Outside of basements, this is always the case with drop ceilings. Always lovely plaster above. Well, from the outside of the house, it looks like there's room for a little half-attic, so I was hoping the drop ceiling would open directly into that, allowing me to look at why the gently caress the wiring is so weird here. Now I'm going to have to borrow a taller ladder and figure out if if there's an attic access hatch anywhere, or if it never existed or was plastered over. I mean, the wires I'm seeing in the outlets are definitely newer than the house, but they don't emerge from the wall above the drop ceiling, so I'm scratching my head how they were run to the breaker box with no basement and seemingly no attic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 02:00
|
|
|
I have a washer dryer combo, the plug looks like this: I have a wall, the outlet looks like this:  Is it just a matter of changing the plug on the dryer, or is there more to it? And what are those both called. I'm having a hard time finding information on the internet just because I don't know what search terms to use.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
The first one is a 4 prong 220/110 volt plug, looks to be a NEMA 14-30P (P means Plug.) 30 amp, 220 volt and 110 volt can both be used because it has a ground AND a neutral prong instead of just a ground prong or just a neutral prong. The outlet is a 3 prong 220/110 volt ungrounded receptacle, looks to be a NEMA 10-30R (R means Receptacle.) 30 amp, 220 and 110 can both be used but it's entirely ungrounded or uses the neutral as a ground, I've seen both uses. Here's a handy reference table for NEMA standard plugs and outlets: http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html There's a solid chance that you can just buy a new cord that matches the outlet at your local Lowes/Home Depot (should be in the aisle with the light switches/outlets/breaker panels) and install it on your dryer. Make sure you follow the instructions on ground/neutral bonding if you do. Just ask for a 3 prong 30 amp dryer cord. The -30 in both NEMA outlet/plug numbers means they're both 30 amp, so you don't have any concerns there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
I'm so happy that you aren't trying to change the outlet like everybody that comes into my store. New driers are sold without power cords so that you can buy the correct cord and then it will be installed by either the customer or the delivery guy. Naturally this means they're much easier to change since they're designed to be installed by the end user. Just ask anybody in the electrical or appliances department for a three prong drier cord (don't buy the range cord next to it that looks the same but won't fit) and they'll grab you one in about two seconds. If nobody is around, they're often near the extension cords or the drier vent hoses depending on what department you wandered into. Pro Tip: The cardboard sleeve the cord comes in usually has installation instructions printed on the inside just in case you lost/threw out your drier manual. That being said: white goes in the middle, red and black go on the other two posts in any order you want. Don't forget to move the ground wire.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 20:40
|
|
|
As I recall, range cords are -50P and range outlets are -50R, since they're meant for 50 amp circuits, so yeah, definitely make sure you get the right one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 20:49
|
|
|
Cat Hatter posted:Don't forget to move the ground wire. Yeah, it you're going from a 4 prong to 3 prong cord, then you'll probably have to reconnect the ground wire inside the panel to the neutral. It's not 100% safe, but it's safer then leaving the ground unattached to anything. In fact, there might be a good chance that the previous installer left them hooked together since they come like that from the factory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 23:02
|
|
|
kid sinister posted:Yeah, it you're going from a 4 prong to 3 prong cord, then you'll probably have to reconnect the ground wire inside the panel to the neutral. It's not 100% safe, but it's safer then leaving the ground unattached to anything. In fact, there might be a good chance that the previous installer left them hooked together since they come like that from the factory. Inside the chassis of the dryer, not inside the house panel. Dryers made since the big push for grounding everything come with the ground and neutral bonded inside the case, with a big warning saying to move the ground off if you're installing a 4-wire cord. And I agree with you, there's a good chance the previous installer left them hooked up ANYWAY.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 23:12
|
|
|
Thanks guys. My roommates dad was saying the house needed to be rewired and we have to run a new ground to the electrical box and this all this BS. I knew it was much simpler than that but wanted to know for sure before I did something dumb.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2013 23:43
|
|
|
Wadjamaloo posted:Thanks guys. My roommates dad was saying the house needed to be rewired and we have to run a new ground to the electrical box and this all this BS. Don't get us wrong, your roommate's dad is correct code-wise and safety-wise. Changing the cord will just get you up and running pretty safely without needing to tear open walls. Also, going by how they repurposed wires for 240V outlets back in the old days with the neutral wire to be a secondary hot carrier and the ground wire to be a neutral+ground carrier, it's more likely that you would need to run a new secondary hot wire and then restore the old wires to their original functions at both the breaker box and the outlet. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Sep 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 00:32
|
|
|
His dad really isn't the doing things by code kinda guy, he is the thinks he knows everything but really doesn't type. He said the unit flat out wouldn't work by changing the cord.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 01:09
|
|
|
We bought a house recently and the wiring left behind by the previous owners has us all wondering why the place hasn't burned down yet. So we're in the planning stages of sorting this out and upgrading the breaker-box to something that isn't from the late-70s based on the 1962 version of the NEN1010 standard. I should probably preface this by stating that I am from Europe, so the only voltage around is 240. I have a 3-phase service, with the main breakers being 3x 25A. There are currently 4 groups. 2 normal 16A groups with ground fault protection, dividing the house in upstairs and downstairs. 1 laundry group which is also 16A but without ground fault protection. The last group is the three-phase group for an electric stove, which has fuse sockets for 25A fuses, but no fuses installed, it has no GFCI nor does it have a separate off switch like the other groups, it can only be switched off by flipping the main switch. There is a main switch, so I can turn off all power before it gets to the panel with the fuses and GFCI. This switch sits on top of the meter and its output side is the last part that's owned by the electrical-infrastructure company. The meter and the 3x 25A fuses that sit before that are in a sealed box. If these fuses blow, the infra company has to come to replace the fuses and re-seal the box. Having gotten rid of all of the butt-joint-soldered-wrapped-in-electrical-tape wire splices and the duplex cable that ran to the shed, we want to sort it out properly. So what we want to do ideally is split the downstairs group up into smaller bits. Because it's now a single 16A group which has to run the kitchen, the livingroom, and well everything that is on the ground floor. The upstairs group only has to power the bedrooms, 16A is more than sufficient there. So what we want to do is expand the single phase groups from 3 to 6 groups. Upstairs would still be a single group, downstairs I want to divide up, making the kitchen its own group. The livingroom would be its own group. The other three groups would become the aircon, laundry, and the shed. The three phase group I want to reduce from 3x 25A to 3x 16A, which is more than enough for a decent stove. Well that and I don't think 25A fuses for a group wired with 2.5mm2 is a good idea. Also I dislike the idea that its fuses are rated the same as the sealed away main-fuses. However in 2005 the NEN1010 was updated so the only panels available today have GFCIs for everything. Including the laundry group and the three-phase group. Considering that everything does have the green-yellow ground wire in place, is there any reason why I couldn't or shouldn't install GFCIs for the laundry and three-phase group? Also would it be a good idea to buy a new panel with 3 GFCIs? Since I need more than 2 groups I have to have atleast 2 GCFIs, which then allows upto 4 groups per GFCI. So I could make do with 2, but is it a better idea to go with 3, so I can run a phase up to each GCFI, effectively increasing the maximum amount I can draw from 50A to 75A. Not sure if that makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 15:32
|
|
|
Wow wrong thread, good job me.
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 18:59
|
|
|
I'm changing wall outlets for cosmetic reasons. I've found one that seems dangerous. It has 4 white wires, 3 black, and a ground. I plugged my portable radio in and flipped breakers off until it went silent. Checked both top and bottom outlet, both dead. As I was unscrewing wires and popping backstabs out, one of the white wires sparked. I turned the main off, undid all the wires and spread them out, then turned the main back on, but left the first breaker off. I think I checked every combination and I just see 120v between just one pair of the white wires. Flipping the next breaker down on the same side of the panel as the first breaker that I thought killed the outlet makes that go away. I'm pretty sure this is wrong, but I don't know what or how to troubleshoot it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 19:47
|
|
|
Got the dryer cord. The intructions on the packaging were nothing more than "Consult your dryer's owner's manual". This is what you guys mean by neutral bonding the ground right? Everything should be good to go now I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 20:40
|
|
|
Wadjamaloo posted:This is what you guys mean by neutral bonding the ground right? Everything should be good to go now I think. Yep! That's it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
I feel like this is a stupid question, but I wanted to ask anyway just to make sure. Im rewiring my garage and im using a 2 gang square metal box for one of the switch boxes. I bought a 5/8" adapter cover for the box since I plan on finishing the walls with 5/8" drywall. The problem is that the adapter cover looks like this:  Where the switch screws into the outside of the adapter plate However, I see metal boxes in other buildings that have adapter plates that look like this:  Where the receptacle/switch goes on the inside of the adapter plate. (and the rest of the box is closed) Does it matter which adapter plate I use? Am I installing them right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Thaumaturgic posted:I feel like this is a stupid question, but I wanted to ask anyway just to make sure. Your first pic is correct but you don't install the devices until after the sheetrock is finished. The tabs of the switch should rest on the drywall.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 10:24
|
|
|
Thaumaturgic posted:The problem is that the adapter cover looks like this: Looks right, as long as you've got another device going on the left side there. Or intend to cover the open spot with a 2 gang cover with a blank side. The other picture you linked is an rs cover (well, that's what I heard them called) and they are for just what you see, completely exposed boxes that aren't in the wall. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Sep 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 12:24
|
|
|
Thaumaturgic posted:I feel like this is a stupid question, but I wanted to ask anyway just to make sure. You used the right one. In fact, the name of the adapter plate you used is called a "mud ring" since you're supposed to smear drywall mud over them to fill in the gap once the drywall is up. Then once you got your drywall sanded and looking nice, you can put up any regular faceplate you want. RS covers are used for surface mount boxes only. The reason for that is that they cover just the box without any overhang, while a regular faceplate covers the box, the gap between the box and wall covering, and a little extra wall face. Now you could put a mud ring on a surface mount box and put a regular faceplate on that, but it would hang over the edge of the box. That would leave overhanging faceplate corners to snag stuff on which then get bent back and broken off, exposing live wires.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
Recently got a dehumidifier (this one) and overall it works great except for one concern: the power supply gets hot. I mean stupidly, ridiculously hot. The manufacturer's website even has a disclaimer of sorts trying to say this is normal and just make sure you're not tossing blankets on top of it or anything. Power supplies being warm to the touch is nothing unusual, but this thing is hotter than any I've ever experienced, it almost burns your hand if you hold it. I've had to keep a trivet underneath it because I'm afraid it may scorch my hardwood floor. Is this a case of shoddy manufacturing on the power supply's part? If I find another power supply that provides the necessary voltage, would it also get so blazing hot? While I don't think this thing is going to burn the house down, I am worried it may burn out the dehumidifier after only a year or so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 21:34
|
|
|
Ballz posted:Recently got a dehumidifier (this one) and overall it works great except for one concern: the power supply gets hot. I mean stupidly, ridiculously hot. That's a low budget Chinese piece of crap with known problems. Take a suggestion from the thread title and put it in the trash or return it. You already knew this or you wouldn't be asking and keeping a trivet under it. You are correct. Don't doubt yourself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2013 21:48
|
|
|
12v switch mode power supplies are a dime a dozen. Post the specs of it, we'll help you find a better one that won't burn your house down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 14:49
|
|
|
Ballz posted:Recently got a dehumidifier (this one) and overall it works great except for one concern: the power supply gets hot. I mean stupidly, ridiculously hot. insta posted:12v switch mode power supplies are a dime a dozen. Post the specs of it, we'll help you find a better one that won't burn your house down. What this poster said. The manual for that dehumidifier says it needs 6A@12V, here's a 10A supply that won't be running at peak so it should stay cooler-- and it appears to come with a screw terminal adapter so you can cut the DC lead off the current supply and wire it to the barrel connector on this supply. http://www.amazon.com/ledcreelight-Transformer-Warranty-Adapter-3-Prong/dp/B00CPI64SW
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2013 23:54
|
|
|
Qwijib0 posted:What this poster said. Thanks for the suggestion. I've never taken apart power supplies before, are there instructions online or something so I really don't burn down the house by splicing the current DC lead to the new barrel connector?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 05:07
|
|
|
Ballz posted:Thanks for the suggestion. I've never taken apart power supplies before, are there instructions online or something so I really don't burn down the house by splicing the current DC lead to the new barrel connector? If your adapter is, in fact, identical to the one on their site  If you can find markings on the dehumidifier or the cord, use that as a guide for the positive/negative terminals of that adapter. If you can't, just hook it up one way and see if turns on. If it doesn't, then swap positive and negative.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
You know, I'm sure I've asked this before somewhere, but I can't seem to find any record of it: What are the rules for burying a 120V line, both in general and in the context of being near a water line? I'm digging a trench tomorrow for a cold water line I'm laying out to my garden. I would like to run electric out there for some various things, is it an option to lay some electrical conduit in the same trench? It'll only be 8" deep, is that okay if I put it in conduit? I have to guess the depth is okay, unless the previous owner really violated code (which would honestly surprise me) as there's a sub-panel out to the shed 200' away and as part of my prep for digging my own trench, I found that line in plastic conduit at a pretty shallow depth (like 8".) So yeah, can I just drop some conduit next to my water pipe, or do I need to separate them by some amount?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2013 01:56
|
|
|
As I recall, code is either 18 or 24 inches, unless it's in stone (in which case 2" trench depth and then backfill with cement) or under a hard surface such as a sidewalk or paved road (in which case 12" is permissible.) I may be off, my codebook is the 1993 edition (the PDF I got of the later one is on my computer at work) and my recollection is a bit fuzzy, but I'd aim for at least 18 inches either way, preferably 24. There was something about burying it with 2" of sand over the cable followed by a pressure treated board or layer of cement to prevent shovel damage, as well, but I can't remember specifics.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2013 02:14
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:You know, I'm sure I've asked this before somewhere, but I can't seem to find any record of it: You're fine with the same trench, but I'm pretty sure it's 18" deep. You can go as shallow as 12" if it's 20A and GFCI protected. PVC has the same burial depth (18" generally, 12" GFCI protected). You can go shallower if you're in RMC (don't bother). When installing, put down your wire/conduit, then 6" of fill, then a "caution - electric line buried below" tape, then a bit more fill, then your water pipe, 6" of fill, and then "caution - water line buried below" tape, then your final 6" of fill.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2013 02:41
|
|
|
Huh, I'm surprised. There's no way the line out to the shed is even 12". I think the breaker on that is like 40A or 60A (it's two breakers in one slot at the main panel, what's that called? DPDT? Anyhow, not even 12", and not GFCI. Everything else about this house has been absolutely spot on as far as code and well-executed-ness. Anyhow, if it's going to be all that, I almost certainly won't bother. The trencher I'm planning on getting only does a 2" wide 8" deep cut, and I don't really want to get the big one that'll go up to 48" deep as it makes a 6" cut and the electrical would be just sort of a bonus I might make use of. I mean, I guess I could just say gently caress it and break code, but that's not really my style.
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2013 04:43
|
|
|
This is from IRC2003 (condensed from NEC), but I don't think it's changed since then:
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2013 23:32
|
|
|
Yup, that's the table I'm thinking of. Also, what kind of crappy-rear end trencher only goes 8" deep? I bet you could do better with a chainsaw. The cheapest, nastiest, rattiest Ditch Witch at RSC does a 24"x4" trench no problem.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 00:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:35 |
|
|
Yeah, I could have gotten a bigger trencher no problem, but I really didn't need one for this job. The trencher I got, it's like a kwiktrench or something? Instead of the long arm with the chain, it has a spinning wheel, so the radius of that wheel is the limiting factor. Anyhow, adding electric would have been far more effort and cost than I was interested in expending on a potential future braintstorm whim. I cut my trench and laid pipe and everything's hunky dory with no electrical to be found. Thanks for looking into it, though. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2013 03:29
|
|