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BabyFur Denny posted:36 persons shot at is really low considering that 1762 policemen were injured last year. I guess a lot of those injuries happened during (violent) protests or football games.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:46
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eviljelly posted:yeah but everyone was thinking about this stuff after the 60s, 70s, after the sexual revolution and whatnot Now, now, it is well known that the FDP just wants to gently caress everybody.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:49
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elwood posted:german police statistics 2012 So they shot at 8 people and didn't hit them at all?
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Sep 18, 2013 13:52
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Decriminalizing the sexual abuse of minor was a position a lot of people on the political left lobbied for, and some still do. But it only started to get some public attention recently, despite it being somewhat common knowledge. Hell, even the local SPD candidate for my electoral district was pushing for it and apparently nobody in the SPD cared about it.
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Sep 18, 2013 13:58
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28/36 is 78%. Not bad I think.
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Sep 18, 2013 14:01
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elwood posted:persons shot at overall: 36 Well, that is really tame. I feel actually really safe in Germany. In 2011 New York City raked up 36 on their own. Page 17 And Germany has ten times as many people living here. Incidentally, 36 also the amount of dogs these police men shot.
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Sep 18, 2013 17:16
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someone from the Pirates crash landed a spy drone in front of Merkel
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Sep 18, 2013 18:29
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Well, today's the day, all of you go out and vote if you can. It seems pretty likely that we'll be stuck with the CDU one way or another, but at least there's a chance to push the FDP out and to make sure the AfD never gets in.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:09
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Yeah, Merkel will stay chancellor, no matter what happens today. But I also hope that at least the FDP gets kicked out of the Bundestag.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:15
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Yeah that's pretty much what everyone's saying. CDU staying in no matter what, but fingers crossed for the FDP to get kicked out. I also kinda wanna see the Pirate Party succeed (i.e. get more than 5%) just for shits and giggles.
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Sep 22, 2013 10:37
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Bürgerpflicht erfüllt. Really hoping for a great signal from Hessen, too. I heard they have very good chances of getting Rot-Grün, which would be fantastic.
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Sep 22, 2013 11:23
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Sereri posted:I'm guessing you're referring to this post. gently caress German nuclear-phobia. Nuclear waste should have become a moot point a long time ago, but no, we couldn't bring ourselves to invest in actually useful reprocessing and modern power plants which can be fed with nuclear waste and burn it till you only have to secure it for like 300 years. Even if we can't bring ourselves to like or even tolerate nuclear power, we should at least run some of these things as waste disposal facilities  Also gently caress 100% renewable energy plans, that is going to be both expensive and insufficient and cheap electricity is a good thing (schon wieder Strompreiserhöhung anyone?). Actual electricity consumption will increase once we get serious about having carbon-neutral transportation that doesn't also destroy rainforests or take up vast swathes of other land because, surprise, thermodynamics says no to perfect efficiency and all that oil we're not burning needs to be replaced with electricity. Zwille posted:Yeah that's pretty much what everyone's saying. CDU staying in no matter what, but fingers crossed for the FDP to get kicked out. I also kinda wanna see the Pirate Party succeed (i.e. get more than 5%) just for shits and giggles. You mean you want Die PARTEI to succeed for shits and giggles  If they magically got more than 5% (  ) they might send a higher percentage of intelligent people.
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Sep 22, 2013 11:24
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Also just did my civic duty, dragging my family along ("I will pick you up at 12 o'clock so we can all vote together! No excuses!"), being somewhat sad that the new chancellor will almost certainly be the old chancellor. I don't know how much better we are off in a "grand" coalition compared to a CDU/CSU-FDP coalition, but oh well. At least on foreign policy/Euro crisis a government without the FDP will perhaps be a bit more sensible. Crossing fingers that the AFD fails to get into the Bundestag.
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Sep 22, 2013 11:44
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If you have poo poo all to do you can join us in #deutschgoons and whine about the SPD-AFD-Pirate coalition or whatever thing happens today.
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Sep 22, 2013 11:56
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ArchangeI posted:Now, now, it is well known that the FDP just wants to gently caress everybody. At least they're consistently unelectable 
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Sep 22, 2013 12:01
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If only there was a way to get rid of the FDP and keeping our minister of justice.
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Sep 22, 2013 13:08
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Yeah, that's what keeps me from really wishing for the FDP to fail. The result would most likely be CDU-SPD and that means even more surveillance and data retention. I really, really hope AfD fails to get in, though. Preferably with a laughable result, too, like 2.x%. The sheer amount of tears and  this would generate would be a sight to behold.
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Sep 22, 2013 13:40
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Voted (though most people here would disapprove with how I voted) for the least terrible option around. Why can't there be parties with sane opinions regarding nuclear energy.
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Sep 22, 2013 13:49
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parrhesia posted:Yeah, that's what keeps me from really wishing for the FDP to fail. The result would most likely be CDU-SPD and that means even more surveillance and data retention. As an outside (British) observer that's my main hope as well, it would be a well-deserved boot in UKIP's arse too 
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Sep 22, 2013 13:51
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Am I the only one here who actually wants the next administration to be CDU-FDP again? 
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Sep 22, 2013 13:53
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Randler posted:Am I the only one here who actually wants the next administration to be CDU-FDP again? Serious question, I have zero idea why people would want the CDU to govern and there are so many voting for them, it blows my mind.
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Sep 22, 2013 13:58
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"things are going okay and i kinda like angela merkel" ~49% of germans
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Sep 22, 2013 14:02
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Randler posted:Am I the only one here who actually wants the next administration to be CDU-FDP again? I don't know, if given the (likely) choice between CDU-FDP and CDU-SPD, I'd probably also prefer CDU-FDP, mostly because I don't want to see the SPD destroy themselves even further and because the SPD's track record last time they did this was terrible. Of course, this is also a lot like having to choose between having someone poo poo in your right or left eye. I'd much rather see Rot-Rot-Grün, but that doesn't seem very likely.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:10
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eviljelly posted:"things are going okay and i kinda like angela merkel" ~49% of germans Yeah, she hasn't really done anything horrible. Germany looks better than pretty much all the rest of Europe, and she has carefully avoided pissing off anybody. She doesn't really want to change anything, and for the Besitzstandswahrer that make up the majority, that is exactly what they are looking for. Plus, well, you know what you are getting. Steinbrück offers nothing better than Merkel already has (or at least he hasn't been able to communicate it), and if in doubt, Germans will always vote against change.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:11
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I fully believe that the SPD has the potential to change things for the better even now, and there is a LOT of potential for things getting better even though "things are generally okay" for many people. The CDU has zero potential to change things because they don't want to. That's also why I dislike die Linke so much, because they could also work towards changing things for the better, with a little something called "Realpolitik" aka Being Able To Compromise, but they refuse because Principles, which ultimately just leads to them having ridiculous demands that noone can realistically fulfill.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:15
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Simply Simon posted:Why? I have no trust in the current SPD's ability to govern whatsoever. The SPD always was best at sabotaging itself, but since Schröder it feels like every few months some Genossen try to drag the pary in a new direction kicking and screaming. The absurd amount of infighting the SPD has makes them unelectable for me. If I vote SPD today, I just cannot be sure that tomorrow they won't do a 180°. Furthermore, there is a significant amount of stuff SPD politicians did, that do not mesh with my political views at all, chief amongst them the SPD trying to jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon with Sarrazin's made-up statistics and the blatant dishonesty the SPD has shown with regards to the military engagements in Kosovo and Iraq. (The incompetence of the current NRW administration is a strike against the SPD for me as well.) So with me firmly being against any SPD involvement in the federal government, rooting for CDU and FDP is the only valid choice. The fact that Merkel is pretty good at taking down any of the more hardline conservatives to stiffle competition is just making it easier for me.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:17
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What's a good place to follow live poll results online?
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Sep 22, 2013 14:21
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ufarn posted:What's a good place to follow live poll results online? ARD and ZDF.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:25
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Simply Simon posted:Why? I talked to quite a few people who, having done the Wahl-o-Mat or Parteienavi or whatever, told me that their result had Grüne/Linke at the top. But they'd inevitably add that they will still go CDU, because voting left of the SPD "isn't realistic" or "you just can't do that". When pointing out that either they are voting against their own interests or at least convictions or they lied to a website*, they had no reply. But I doubt that changed their vote. There seems to be a pretty strong narrative among the German middle class that voting left of the SPD is simply something you can't do, whether you agree with any of those party's programs or not. *: I am also aware that the Wahl-o-Mat had a pretty strong bias in some questions, so it could very well be that their results were skewed to the left or that issues important to them simply never popped up. But generally, I'd say 80+ Grüne/Linke still suggests a fairly high compatibility with those parties. Simply Simon posted:That's also why I dislike die Linke so much, because they could also work towards changing things for the better, with a little something called "Realpolitik" aka Being Able To Compromise, but they refuse because Principles, which ultimately just leads to them having ridiculous demands that noone can realistically fulfill. Now if only the SPD could finally get their poo poo together. Randler posted:The SPD always was best at sabotaging itself
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Sep 22, 2013 14:26
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KaneTW posted:Why can't there be parties with sane opinions regarding nuclear energy. Well, there is the BüSo. I mean, they are insane about pretty much everything else, but... My polling place this year was basically 3 m² away from being a utility closet. Merkel's Germany #smh
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Sep 22, 2013 14:26
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Randler posted:[SPD mistakes] Basically, my reason for voting and even joining the SPD is firmly rooted in two things: its principles which demand a social state and economic policy, and which I almost fully agree with, and their ability, as a Volkspartei, to not be radically strict about them and act pragmatic when needed. One could (and you did) very well argue that they have been too often bending their principles far too much, and with "they" being "too many people in too many fractions that don't agree with each other". A valid concern. However, there is no party I trust that can ever support my views as much as the SPD does. Maybe not exactly as they are now; but - how will they ever become better at staying true to themselves if nothing changes? Constant opposition or small partner in a grand coalition is poison, because they can never prove that their ideas are able to change things for the better, and "change for the better" is what they entirely stand for, in my opinion. Again, as "everything is alright", which is not true for a lot of people, but for more than enough voters to keep CDU/CSU in charge. I don't want things to go wrong before people give the SPD a chance to fix them, I want people to think like me and say "I'm sure they can do better than those who just want everything to stay the same". EDIT: parrhesia posted:At this point, I am reasonably sure the SPD primarily survives on nothing but self-hatred.  .
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Sep 22, 2013 14:30
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Simply Simon posted:I fully believe that the SPD has the potential to change things for the better even now, and there is a LOT of potential for things getting better even though "things are generally okay" for many people. The CDU has zero potential to change things because they don't want to. It is a bit of goon armchair psychology (the best kind of psychology), but I honestly think that this is fundamentally wrong about why Germans vote parties into government. Germans generally don't want a party to improve their lot, they want a party that secures what they have right now and promises that things won't get worse. Any talk about changing things for the better includes the possibility that things get worse (because they change). The only thing that kills governments is a shown inability to correctly respond to future threats. Merkel has shown her ability to manage crisis plenty of times.
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Sep 22, 2013 14:39
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Randler posted:Am I the only one here who actually wants the next administration to be CDU-FDP again? I think it heavily depends on how you view this question, and German politics at the moment. There are things that the current government made which I would have preferred to be done otherwise. Some of these really pissed me off. Betreuungsgeld? Apart from this being a paternalistic bullshit policy, rewarding mothers to stay at home to take care of the baby is at least a logically consistent policy. But rewarding only rich/non-poor people, who need this the least and are probably not much motivated to get extra children, and denying this benefit to the poor, preventing single mothers who get Hartz 4 to claim this money, that made me livid. I was/am really raging about this, because it is so much bullshit, it just boggles the mind. Some other things they have handled badly also, which are quite important. The Euro crisis is a serious threat to both the European project, and to the basic stability and democracy of some of these countries. I have people in my family (we came from East Germany but moved to the West after reunification) who long for the good old days of the GDR, because at least nobody was unemployed at that time. And one of my cousins is a member of the NPD, who was burned by a long period of unemployment after reunification. So both from recent experience after the Wall fell, and the big historical example of the Weimar Republic, we should know what economic malaise can do to a country. 50% youth unemployment in Greece is a catastrophe, and the rise of the Golden Dawn should ring all kinds of alarm bells, especially for any German! And I know the CDU had to drag the FDP kicking and screaming to provide even the modest amount of assistance we could provide the struggling states, but there really needs to be more substantial help. I would hope a SPD/Greens coalition would be more open to these kinds of options than the current government. Then there were a few blunders in foreign policy, and there are some social/domestic issues where I prefer a more left-wing policy (immigration reform would be cool; gay marriage is a must, I want the right to marry my BF and frankly don't care about the constitutionally, change the drat thing if necessary and so on), so I have reasons to want a change of government. On the other hand, if I look at the political landscape, the CDU/FDP coalition becomes more attractive. There is no way to a SPD/Green coalition, and for some reason a red-red-green coalition is not even an option (  ), so it will either be a "grand" coalition or a repeat of Union/FDP. And as others pointed out, CDU/SPD are great when it comes to spy on us, and also probably not that concerned about NSA spying, as long as they get access to the data as well. And since the CDU will be the main partner in both probable coalitions, they will veto any attempt to undo some of their bad policy choices from the last four years. At least the SPD could perhaps offer more resistance to the PKW-Maut, and without the FDP Merkel will perhaps take a more productive stand in the Euro crisis, but this is probably merely a choice between two not so great options.Besides, I don't want the SPD to become even weaker (which they will in a grand coalition). How can there ever be a left of center chancellor again if the CDU retains 40%, while the left fractures even more? Being a bit down on German politics to be honest  But at least we are not on the level of the Americans yet. So I cannot be too down. (I would post a German flag smiley, but SA doesn't have one. Aren't we something like the second biggest internet demographic? Why do we have a  . but no German equivalent? )
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Sep 22, 2013 14:50
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I wasn't all that happy about the offers. My personal core issue (a sane and extensive use of nuclear energy) was adressed pretty much nowhere. To be frank, that was the only reason I actually voted SchwarzGelb 4 years ago. Didn't help that much in that regard... Well at least I voted. So it is less likely that Pro Deutschland or AfD get through. Seriously? getting back to the DM?? The Euro existed for close to half of my life. I can barely remeber using DM. The only notable thing I actually remember about them was that exchanging money was a mayor hassle when we were in Denmark or Austria. Not to mention that it would severly cripple the German exports. EDIT: But all in all I am quite content with the way the German system is set up. I can't actually imagine how pointless it would feel if there weren't these small parties. A two party system would definitely be worse. Especially if both of them keep shifting right. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Sep 22, 2013 |
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Sep 22, 2013 14:52
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Torrannor posted:Besides, I don't want the SPD to become even weaker (which they will in a grand coalition). How can there ever be a left of center chancellor again if the CDU retains 40%, while the left fractures even more? Being a bit down on German politics to be honest On the other hand, just from my layman's understanding of politics, if there were actually a really big push of the CDU for something directly going against SPD principles, why shouldn't they refuse even in a grand coalition? Maybe they need to do that for some decision or another. What could the CDU do? Break the coalition and make a Minderheitenregierung? Neuwahlen? Or how tight are Koalitionsverträge really? It can't be illegal for party members to vote against their conscience after all, so what's keeping every SPD member to directly vote against some CDU poo poo and the party leaders going "well, it's not like we told them to do that explicitly..." and laugh.
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Sep 22, 2013 15:01
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The power hunger and short term thinking of the SPD will lead to a coalition with the CDU and it will hurt them. It's half sad and half disgusting.
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Sep 22, 2013 15:08
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Simply Simon posted:On the other hand, just from my layman's understanding of politics, if there were actually a really big push of the CDU for something directly going against SPD principles, why shouldn't they refuse even in a grand coalition? Maybe they need to do that for some decision or another. What could the CDU do? Break the coalition and make a Minderheitenregierung? Neuwahlen? Or how tight are Koalitionsverträge really? It can't be illegal for party members to vote against their conscience after all, so what's keeping every SPD member to directly vote against some CDU poo poo and the party leaders going "well, it's not like we told them to do that explicitly..." and laugh. e: assuming you mean Bundestag members! Zohar fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Sep 22, 2013 |
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Sep 22, 2013 15:20
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:The power hunger and short term thinking of the SPD will lead to a coalition with the CDU and it will hurt them. It's half sad and half disgusting. Sadly, this is what I fear, too. Air is lava! posted:Well at least I voted. So it is less likely that Pro Deutschland or AfD get through. Seriously? getting back to the DM?? The Euro existed for close to half of my life. I can barely remeber using DM. The only notable thing I actually remember about them was that exchanging money was a mayor hassle when we were in Denmark or Austria. Not to mention that it would severly cripple the German exports. I've had the pleasure of sitting in bars next to people discussing politics who were also huge fans of AfD. It was amazing in that it was so far beyond stupid a parody wouldn't have been able to top it. Highlights include starting a huge rant with "Damals, die Stasi bei den Nazis" and the following exchange: "Das mit der Politik und Europa ist ja schlimm." "Ja, genau." "Und der Euro erst." "Richtig." "Aber die bei den Banken, die sind ja die allerschlimmsten." (lengthy, awkward pause while drinking more beer)
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Sep 22, 2013 15:27
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Zohar posted:It's literally in the Grundgesetz that members are subject only to their conscience. How that translates into actual politics is something else obviously. Lucy Heartfilia posted:The power hunger and short term thinking of the SPD will lead to a coalition with the CDU and it will hurt them. It's half sad and half disgusting.
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Sep 22, 2013 15:30
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Well, if they act different than during the last grand coalition, they might have a chance. If...
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Sep 22, 2013 15:40
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