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Galaga Galaxian posted:I would think the ruthless slaughter of non-combatants would be worth more dread. Then again maybe its worth "Outrage" instead that makes the enemy angrier and commit more resources to killing you. That does sound fun. I hope these goody two shoes systems don't let me xenocide them too easily.
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Sep 23, 2013 01:52
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I do hope you get some missions to do raids on enemy transports- maybe just blowing up some transports, or disabling them to lure in enemy ships from entrenched positions.
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Sep 23, 2013 07:36
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Just Offscreen posted:I do hope you get some missions to do raids on enemy transports- maybe just blowing up some transports, or disabling them to lure in enemy ships from entrenched positions. It would work best if it mimicked WW1/2 style commerce raiding, you have a few fast, relatively well armed vessels that can quickly destroy merchant vessels and light convoy guards but you only have limited time to do damage and get away before slower but much more heavily armed vessels arrive so the mission has a clock on it though there wouldn't necessarily need to be an explicit countdown.
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Sep 23, 2013 09:55
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Speaking of WWII, I always thought the mechanic of shooting down torpedoes before they hit your carrier was just a made-up thing in Freespace/TIE Fighter/whatever. Turns out it actually happened:quote:At 09:15, an Avenger from St. Lo—piloted by LTJG Waldrop—strafed and exploded two torpedoes in Kalinin Bay's wake about 100 yd (91 m) astern of her. A shell from the latter's 5 in (130 mm) gun deflected a third from a collision course with her stern.
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Sep 23, 2013 13:44
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I would think the ruthless slaughter of non-combatants would be worth more dread. Then again maybe its worth "Outrage" instead that makes the enemy angrier and commit more resources to killing you.
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Sep 23, 2013 14:09
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Bubbacub posted:Speaking of WWII, I always thought the mechanic of shooting down torpedoes before they hit your carrier was just a made-up thing in Freespace/TIE Fighter/whatever. Turns out it actually happened: Spitfires used to chase down the V1's in an attempt to blow them up before they ran out of fuel and detonated, which was one of the reasons for Germany heading towards the ballistic missile.
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Sep 23, 2013 14:10
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Best part was for V1 interception you couldn't safely shoot at them because they'd cause huge explosions that'd potentially damage your own plane. So they'd fly alongside the things, slowly move in so they're wingtip to wingtip with it. They'd then dip their own wing under the V1's wing and flip it, at which point the V1's gyro would go crazy and the thing would crash into the sea.
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Sep 23, 2013 18:27
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Are you serious? That is hard to believe. I wonder if there videos of these sorts of thing happening.
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Sep 24, 2013 00:10
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Psycho Society posted:Are you serious? That is hard to believe. I wonder if there videos of these sorts of thing happening. 
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Sep 24, 2013 00:13
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Psycho Society posted:Are you serious? That is hard to believe. I wonder if there videos of these sorts of thing happening. That didn't just happen, it was the standard tactic. You don't want to be 50m away from and flying towards a 850kg bomb when it explodes.
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Sep 24, 2013 00:28
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quote:V1 interception stuff... Holy poo poo! It makes sense that they would do this, but drat, balls of steel. quote:Mike pronounces "Boushh" (the bounty hunter Leia is disguised as in Return of the Jedi) like "boosh" That's because it's the correct way! Anthony Daniels pronounced it that way twice in the RotJ radio drama. http://forum.rebelscum.com/t878134-2/  Speaking of, when I was doing research on voice modulation I found these guys: http://www.hyperdynelabs.com/products_elec_vortex2Voice.php and while it sounded like a neat solution, look at how drat expensive that is, especially since you can't reprogram it yourself. The output sounds pretty good though.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:40
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Kairo posted:Holy poo poo! It makes sense that they would do this, but drat, balls of steel. Kairo posted:Speaking of, when I was doing research on voice modulation I found these guys: http://www.hyperdynelabs.com/products_elec_vortex2Voice.php and while it sounded like a neat solution, look at how drat expensive that is, especially since you can't reprogram it yourself. The output sounds pretty good though. Now I want one of those Stormtrooper modulatey things though 
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Sep 24, 2013 01:55
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Does that do more than let you pick between 4 pre-set voices? As for the actual english v alien radio chatter you folks were talking about in the interview, my personal opinion is that it would be cooler, and more functional if they could actually communicate useful information to you. As interesting as having alien wingmen is, you wouldn't really know what was going on. If you had subtitles, you'd have to look away to read them, too. The "payload delivered; returning to base" part of your original video added a lot to the atmosphere, I think.
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Sep 24, 2013 01:59
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Psycho Society posted:Does that do more than let you pick between 4 pre-set voices? Kind of reminds me of the idea with Combine radio chatter in HL2. It was still in English but using somewhat unfamiliar medical terms for everything so once you caught on, you'd sometimes be able to tell if there was one guy left in a squad or what they were about to do.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:08
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Der Luftwaffle posted:Kind of reminds me of the idea with Combine radio chatter in HL2. It was still in English but using somewhat unfamiliar medical terms for everything so once you caught on, you'd sometimes be able to tell if there was one guy left in a squad or what they were about to do. Combine radio chatter may be my favorite incidental detail in Half-Life 2. Besides the evocative coded phrases, I love the way Overwatch announces the location of every metrocop you take out.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:11
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The stuff Overwatch says, and to an exaggerated extent G-man, is just perfect for communicating information without overdoing it on the acting. It's also a thing in some horror, otherworldly settings. If there's a simpler and as effective way to make someone sound like they aren't human but know the language and its meanings, I've yet to find it. Actually, does anyone know if that whole "Combine Overwatch / Alien English." has a name? I'd be interested in studying and adapting it for my own uses. 
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Sep 24, 2013 02:19
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epmode posted:Combine radio chatter may be my favorite incidental detail in Half-Life 2. Besides the evocative coded phrases, I love the way Overwatch announces the location of every metrocop you take out. Yeah, it's probably my favorite detail too. Sounds so good. Reminds me of the THX 1138 robot-cop dispatch which was also so drat cool.
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Sep 24, 2013 02:23
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Snow Job posted:Is the player's faction alien or human? If the ultimate goal is 'invade galaxy, glass dominant empire's homeworld', that sounds decidedly alien to me.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:36
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I hope that he leaves it unknown- making them be unambiguously human somehow takes something away from it.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:14
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If all we get is snippets of religious texts proclaiming genocide on the unfaithful then I will count myself happy as far as lore goes and not care whether they're humans or aliens or whatever.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:21
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Benagain posted:If all we get is snippets of religious texts proclaiming genocide on the unfaithful then I will count myself happy as far as lore goes and not care whether they're humans or aliens or whatever. This reminds me of a short story by Leonard Del Rey. A great short story about a priest during an alien invasion. The priest grapples with his faith as the aliens snipe at humans from their ships and basically do whatever they want. Everything that everyone in the world tries in defense or offense, fails. Missiles don't hit their targets, etc. If I remember correctly, the turning point comes shortly after the priest hides in ruined church, and discovers that not only are the aliens more or less space Catholics performing a mass, but that the presence of God is palpable in the ritual. God has ditched humanity and has sided with aliens, and is using them as his sword against humankind, and is Himself deliberately causing their weaponry to fail (fulfilling Revelations or something).
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Sep 24, 2013 19:50
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doctorfrog posted:This reminds me of a short story by Leonard Del Rey. A great short story about a priest during an alien invasion. The obvious question in that case is why he wouldn't just use a big rock or something. Or snap his fingers and have it wipe out humanity instantly. It's a very Saturday morning cartoon villain kind of plan for someone who is all powerful.
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Sep 24, 2013 21:57
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Zaodai posted:The obvious question in that case is why he wouldn't just use a big rock or something. Or snap his fingers and have it wipe out humanity instantly. It's a very Saturday morning cartoon villain kind of plan for someone who is all powerful. (Actually it's a bit more subtle than that in that it's a retelling / critique of Job, which is still dumb because it's not like Job hasn't had a history of critique from its own religious culture. But the larger point is that a lot of those 50s SF authors were the original prototypes for r/atheism, complete with neckbeards and fedoras.)
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Sep 24, 2013 23:14
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Klyith posted:Nah, the moral is that God is a bandwagon fan who roots for the winning side.
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Sep 24, 2013 23:36
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TychoCelchuuu posted:Podcast interview with Mike Tipul (the developer) from two space sim fans who have played the beta. They like it. So when can I get a beta to show off your mangnificent work to the masses?
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Sep 24, 2013 23:49
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ROCKET SCIENCE 
doctorfrog posted:This reminds me of a short story by Leonard Del Rey. A great short story about a priest during an alien invasion. Didn't they make this into an Outer Limits episode?
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Sep 24, 2013 23:54
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illectro posted:So when can I get a beta to show off your mangnificent work to the masses?
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Sep 25, 2013 00:05
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TychoCelchuuu posted:You're supposed to quote the dev when you say that!  Are you saying he didn't? 
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Sep 25, 2013 00:12
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That's just so I can extort Kairo for 64% of the profits on the back of having done a substantial amount of the PR necessary to make the game flourish.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:23
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Klyith posted:Nah, the moral is that God is a bandwagon fan who roots for the winning side. Yeah? I'll have to reread it, because, English degree or not, I tend to read stories and watch movies with wide eyes and don't see the connections until someone points them out. I read it as a twistie of the old B-movie alien invasions taken to a new level of decimation (humanity does not quite succeed the way it would prefer, no native bacteria intercedes on their behalf, and they don't win via good old WWII muster), with a critique of how well religion and belief stand up in the face of clear indifference of a "Creator." But I just can't see Del Rey as anything near your dime a dozen neckbeard youtube dipshit, even if he wrote a story where an extremely advanced form of man hunts down a weak and pathetic God, and, with pity in his voice, puts the smite down on Him. I like your version though: God is basically an rear end in a top hat sports fan.
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Sep 25, 2013 03:10
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Best part was for V1 interception you couldn't safely shoot at them because they'd cause huge explosions that'd potentially damage your own plane. So they'd fly alongside the things, slowly move in so they're wingtip to wingtip with it. They'd then dip their own wing under the V1's wing and flip it, at which point the V1's gyro would go crazy and the thing would crash into the sea. Alchenar posted:That didn't just happen, it was the standard tactic. You don't want to be 50m away from and flying towards a 850kg bomb when it explodes. It's recorded as having happened a handful of times, but wasn't common. Usually aircraft just shot them up with cannon, the bombs were small and fast but flew straight and at a constant speed. In the end though, the great majority of interceptions were by anti-aircraft guns directed by analogue computers and firing shells with proximity fuzes (rushed into production to meet this threat). </nerd derail>
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Sep 25, 2013 16:23
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This must have been asked before, but does Enemy Starfighter allow for translation? What that means is using thrusters to move your ship laterally. It's probably the most useful thing you can do in a space sim and allows for tactics deeper than the standard freespace 'point ship at target and fire' gameplay. e: VV Looked for that, but all I can find is Kairo talking about having a glide function, which is a different mechanic entirely. Could you quote the post? Psycho Society fucked around with this message at 11:41 on Sep 29, 2013 |
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Sep 29, 2013 06:52
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Psycho Society posted:This must have been asked before, but does Enemy Starfighter allow for translation? What that means is using thrusters to move your ship laterally. It's probably the most useful thing you can do in a space sim and allows for tactics deeper than the standard freespace 'point ship at target and fire' gameplay. (Although technically of course it allows for translation - what you're asking is whether it allows for lateral translation via thrusters that point in some direction other than behind your ship.)
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Sep 29, 2013 08:04
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Psycho Society posted:This must have been asked before, but does Enemy Starfighter allow for translation? What that means is using thrusters to move your ship laterally. It's probably the most useful thing you can do in a space sim and allows for tactics deeper than the standard freespace 'point ship at target and fire' gameplay. Really? The capability has been in FreeSpace for a while, and like glide, I'm not convinced it actually adds much of anything to an atmospheric-style kinetic energy management flight model. What in particular are you thinking of in terms of tactical depth? FreeSpace worked well because it turns out that pointing your ship at the target is quite hard. Glide and strafe mechanics, while fun, tend to anti-synergize with this core design.
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Sep 29, 2013 14:59
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The big thing about having strafe mechanics is that it lets you dodge incoming fire to some degree with actually affecting where you're going. Whether that's desireable or not is another question - I can see arguments for both sides.
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Sep 29, 2013 15:07
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Jabor posted:The big thing about having strafe mechanics is that it lets you dodge incoming fire to some degree with actually affecting where you're going. Mastering the strafe-dodge was what made combat in X3 go from an excersize in exploding, to being able to take down ships a whole lot bigger than me. Having that level of control over your dodging is a lot of fun. It's really nerve wracking bobbing and weaving around huge masses of plasma, knowing all it takes is one or two and you're out of the fight. Reminds me of boxing.
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Sep 29, 2013 15:39
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Yep. I'm not entirely sure how to explain it if you can't visualize it, but lateral translation allows you to have more control over your ship. That's just about all it boils down to. You can perform more nuanced aerobatics and have more variations in attack strategy. If you've ever tried to take down a laser turret in freespace you know what I mean. You can only rush in, take the hits, and hope you don't get torn apart. I really don't know what you mean by being anti-synergizing with the gameplay or whatever. I don't have trouble lining up shots in freespace at all. Most of the difficulty comes with deciding what targets to destroy in what order, and avoiding getting lit up when enemies start swarming. Regular freespace (yes, even FSO) doesn't have this, by the way. It's only enabled in certain mods. The game that made me absolutely fall in love with translation must be planetside 2. Nevermind dogfighting for a second, the control you have and the depth available to you in terms of acrobatics because of lateral translation makes that game a joy just to fly around. The skill ceiling so much higher going back to 'move in straight lines only please' after that feels like someone took a hatchet to your foot. If enemy starfighter doesn't end up having it, it will be a drat shame, but this game is strong enough and interesting enough for it to still be one of the most incredible space sims yet. It just won't be as good as it could be.
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Sep 30, 2013 02:10
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Psycho Society posted:Yep. I'm not entirely sure how to explain it if you can't visualize it, but lateral translation allows you to have more control over your ship. That's just about all it boils down to. You can perform more nuanced aerobatics and have more variations in attack strategy. If you've ever tried to take down a laser turret in freespace you know what I mean. You can only rush in, take the hits, and hope you don't get torn apart. I really don't know what you mean by being anti-synergizing with the gameplay or whatever. I don't have trouble lining up shots in freespace at all. Most of the difficulty comes with deciding what targets to destroy in what order, and avoiding getting lit up when enemies start swarming. Regular freespace (yes, even FSO) doesn't have this, by the way. It's only enabled in certain mods. As a dev on several of those mods I'm familiar with how to turn it on. I know exactly what you mean by translation/strafe, and I like it in the right situation, but in general I don't think it's a great fit for energy-management flight models like what you find in FreeSpace. The reason has to do with the core mechanic of the 'World War II in space' dogfight system - managing your kinetic energy to balance your ship's defensive capabilities (forward motion, dodging, the potential to maneuver) with the need to stay at corner velocity and out-turn your opponent. This is a mechanic lifted from the atmospheric flight situations that FreeSpace or X-Wing emulate, where up-close dogfights are entirely about managing kinetic and potential energy in order to get your nose on your opponent. In fact, it's the very reason they're called dogfights! Off-axis thrust often antisynergizes with this mechanic because it allows ships to 'cheat' their energy management - you get cool additional tools, but they open up loopholes in flight behavior that break the connection between turn management and attack.Lining up shots becomes a challenge when you're against a human opponent, when you're under attack from multiple angles and have to convert rapidly between offensive and defensive maneuvers, and (a point of particular pride for FSO mod teams) when the AI is good enough. quote:The skill ceiling so much higher going back to 'move in straight lines only please' after that feels like someone took a hatchet to your foot. I don't think it really alters skill ceilings so much as it changes the sport you're playing. Giving football players jetpacks definitely creates a different, interesting game, and I'm not putting down jetpack football! But one of the core pieces of football gameplay is the limitation of two-dimensional movement. To bring the metaphor home,. I don't think it'll be a 'drat shame' if the game doesn't have translation, as in general I just don't think it's a fit for all flight designs. I apologize for the wall of text; this is a decade-plus debate in the FreeSpace community, where many people believe (like you do) that all flight models should have strafe or other varieties off-axis thrust. I'm firmly opposed to the belief that energy-management flight sims 'won't be as good as [they] could be' without translation, and I think it's a belief driven by a fundamental misunderstanding of how the gameplay works. I suppose I should note that I have played a shitload of flight sims with translation, and developed a few flight models of my own using it. I've also played a bunch of hardcore flight sims like Falcon 4.0, which I think have enormously high skill ceilings. e: I guess what I am saying is, having had the ability to just flip translation thrust on and off in a whole bunch of different flight models, having played around with it for years, I do not think every arcade space sim is universally improved by adding it. General Battuta fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 30, 2013 |
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Sep 30, 2013 03:02
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Even though I am a huge fan of the pseduo-atmospheric flight model of X-Wing, Freespace, Wing Commander, etc., I have a hard time thinking of it as truly kinetic dogfighting when there's no potential energy (i.e., altitude or gravity) such that you have to trade speed and energy for certain maneuvers. For the most part in those space games, you can keep your throttle maxed with little consequence the majority of the time.
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Sep 30, 2013 03:52
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Derek Dominoe posted:Even though I am a huge fan of the pseduo-atmospheric flight model of X-Wing, Freespace, Wing Commander, etc., I have a hard time thinking of it as truly kinetic dogfighting when there's no potential energy (i.e., altitude or gravity) such that you have to trade speed and energy for certain maneuvers. For the most part in those space games, you can keep your throttle maxed with little consequence the majority of the time. Go-fast-turn-slow and vice versa seems like a pretty simple and fundamental tradeoff for these sorts of flight models.
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Sep 30, 2013 06:51
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