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gradenko_2000 posted:Assuming this isn't sarcasm, I've never heard of this stance. Care to elaborate? A deer killed my car. I had it since 1999. RIP Blue Saturn SL-1 1999 - 2012.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:45
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 21:03 |
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How long should it take for natural selection to weed out the deer with tendencies to dart out in front of cars?
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Sep 24, 2013 14:46
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I'm not sure that's how that works.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:47
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VideoTapir posted:How long should it take for natural selection to weed out the deer with tendencies to dart out in front of cars? Eh, I doubt their vision combined with their prey tendencies will allow that to ever happen. In the south we have the same problem with Opossums, the problem being that Opossums just have such terrible vision and tend to think the correct reaction is to drop and play dead in the middle of the road
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Sep 24, 2013 14:49
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CarterUSM posted:It's honestly a bit ironic that there tends to be a strong animus against hunters in liberal circles (and this is as a liberal, myself). Lots of the most involved and invested conservationists are hunters, trying to act in the tradition of Teddy Roosevelt. I have a ton of avid hunters in my family, so I never understood the reactionary anti-hunting thing. Most of the hunters I've met are incredibly respectful of nature/wildlife and would never intentionally do anything to make an animal suffer. They also donate a lot of meat from their kills to charities which distribute them to soup kitchens and the like. Everyone should be in favor of giving the poor tasty, tasty venison.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:03
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Hulk Krogan posted:I have a ton of avid hunters in my family, so I never understood the reactionary anti-hunting thing. Most of the hunters I've met are incredibly respectful of nature/wildlife and would never intentionally do anything to make an animal suffer. Well, apart from shooting it.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:23
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Hulk Krogan posted:I have a ton of avid hunters in my family, so I never understood the reactionary anti-hunting thing. Most of the hunters I've met are incredibly respectful of nature/wildlife and would never intentionally do anything to make an animal suffer. They also donate a lot of meat from their kills to charities which distribute them to soup kitchens and the like. I'm a reactionary anti-hunter because in my state they close off wildlife refuges to the public for almost half the year so that dickbags in camo can blast migrating ducks with impunity. Also, its been mentioned but it should be reiterated that the reason deer are overpopulating is because hunters killed all of their predators for no loving reason and are continuing to do so.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:32
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If I were a deer I'd rather be shot than eaten alive by a wolf. As far as predators go humans are pretty nice about it.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:33
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Nevvy Z posted:Well, we can't just let them roam the suburbs and attack our children! gently caress urban sprawl and also people. This is a problem even in places very very far from suburbs so no.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:41
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RagnarokAngel posted:This is a problem even in places very very far from suburbs so no. It's actually really not unless you mean India or Eastern Europe/Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/content/teen-fights-wolf-attack-solway-boy-suffers-head-wound-animal-later-trapped-and-killed-area http://www.hcn.org/issues/315/16084 Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 16:11
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Hulk Krogan posted:I have a ton of avid hunters in my family, so I never understood the reactionary anti-hunting thing. Most of the hunters I've met are incredibly respectful of nature/wildlife and would never intentionally do anything to make an animal suffer. They also donate a lot of meat from their kills to charities which distribute them to soup kitchens and the like. Yeah I'll never understand why those uppity vegetarians get angry about people murdering animals for fun.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:17
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Armacham posted:Yeah I'll never understand why those uppity vegetarians get angry about people murdering animals for fun. Because the compassionate, caring vegetarians would far prefer that the animals go through high variance cycles of overpopulation and die-off, rather than have their population managed for stability in accordance with ecological research and accept that maybe their own personal dietary preferences aren't necessarily applicable to entire ecosystems.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:43
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cheerfullydrab posted:Whatever the systemic roots of the problem are, the best solution at this point is to shoot a bunch of deer. They're full of tasty meat, they're not going to go extinct, there's literally no reason to be against killing deer beyond being overly sentimental or contrarian. I dated a girl who loved deer for how "majestic" they looked and would cry if she saw one dead on the side of the highway. A vet suggested that we feed our cat venison-flavored cat food once and she straight up refused due to her beliefs. This girl wasn't vegetarian either. People just like deer for some reason.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:59
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Where I live there is a significant enough urban deer population that Fish and Wildlife hunts them in town with bows.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:59
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The problem is historically hunters and fisherman have been often been incredibly poor judges of how they impact the ecosystem. More recently now that scientists and conservationists have got involved they can now be used to cull animals that are overpopulating but I can understand some of the lasting resentment even though now they are required in many instances. I think most environmentalists realize their necessity is a reality but hunters are also solving a problem they had a hand in creating.
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Sep 24, 2013 16:59
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And then there's the majority who just have an irrational hatred of anything perceived as a conservative activity and no personal experience with hunting. Leftist culture war bullshit.
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Sep 24, 2013 17:11
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Radish posted:The problem is historically hunters and fisherman have been often been incredibly poor judges of how they impact the ecosystem. I think this is true of everyone. Pretty much all human activity from 1500-today has been an extended gently caress You session to the environment.
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Sep 24, 2013 17:13
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seiferguy posted:I dated a girl who loved deer for how "majestic" they looked and would cry if she saw one dead on the side of the highway. A vet suggested that we feed our cat venison-flavored cat food once and she straight up refused due to her beliefs. This girl wasn't vegetarian either. People just like deer for some reason. I have this theory that the cuter the animal the tastier they are. I reckon kitten is delicious. Or baby penguin.
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Sep 24, 2013 17:29
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Quote-Unquote posted:I have this theory that the cuter the animal the tastier they are. I reckon kitten is delicious. Or baby penguin. By this metric otter kits are ambrosia, but I could never bring myself to test that theory. 
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Sep 24, 2013 17:34
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Radish posted:The problem is historically hunters and fisherman have been often been incredibly poor judges of how they impact the ecosystem. More recently now that scientists and conservationists have got involved they can now be used to cull animals that are overpopulating but I can understand some of the lasting resentment even though now they are required in many instances. I think most environmentalists realize their necessity is a reality but hunters are also solving a problem they had a hand in creating. This is true, but Ducks Unlimited was founded in the late thirties by duck hunters, specifically as a result of wetland habitat loss damaging the populations of migratory waterfowl. In the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, there was a lot of thought (by drat near everyone, not just hunters) that the natural abundance of the United States was a matter of getting your share while the resources were there to be grabbed. It was a classic Tragedy of the Commons situation. Conservationists have been around for more than a hundred years, recognizing that habitat and population management was vital to maintaining viable wildlife populations and ecosystems. While the mission may have shifted from "drat, if we keep shooting everything in sight there won't be anything left to shoot!" to "hunting is one method by which wildlife population is managed," conservation efforts have largely been led by those within the hunting community (not to imply that every hunter is deeply invested in that ethos, there were, and are, plenty of "gently caress you, got mine," hunters who would shoot as much as they could).
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Sep 24, 2013 17:41
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Yeah there's going to be jerks in every community and it certainly doesn't speak for the whole. It's the typical "think of the future while we take responsibly" vs "strip mine it now, make the most for myself, gently caress my kids" attitude conflict that is present across a lot of society.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:06
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Yeah, but those aren't usually the sort of people to put their baby on a dead deer and say "F U PETA".
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Sep 24, 2013 18:07
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totalnewbie posted:Yeah, but those aren't usually the sort of people to put their baby on a dead deer and say "F U PETA". Interestingly someone just posted an article in the Freep thread that talks about a similar attitude in regards to SUVs. http://trueslant.com/juliansanchez/2009/12/16/the-politics-of-ressentiment/ For the type of person that posts the FU PETA with his baby on the dead body of an animal it's more about lashing out at a perceived judgment on that person's self. Similar to how Freepers talk about burning tires or letting their cars run all day on Earth Day to piss off the hippies which doesn't benefit them in anyway other than the feeling that somewhere someone at Berkeley is crying.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:13
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Are we really blaming hunters for the lack of predatory animals in suburban and urban environments in this country? I know that these problems were all caused by human encroachment but if your solution is to have more wolves, big cats and other dangerous predatory animals running free and wild instead of having their population controled to where they are no longer a danger your stupid god drat hippie. I always really enjoyed walks through the park and nature trails when I was not in danger of being eaten. I also think it's cool I can let my dog or when and if I have them, children out in the yard without fear of being something's dinner
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Sep 24, 2013 18:28
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Yes all those dangerous, fatal wolf and puma attack suburban American children have to worry about. Why in the last hundred years it must be in the 20s! You should be more interested in killing off bees if you are that scared of randomly being killed by nature.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:40
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Radish posted:Yes all those dangerous, fatal wolf and puma attack suburban American children have to worry about. Why in the last hundred years it must be in the 20s! Well we're doing a pretty god job of that actually.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:54
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It's utterly depressing to me how little we seem to care about Colony Collapse Disorder. My former house-mate who self identified as a "christian objectivst" loved to go on about how CCD was a good thing. Something about the will of god and survival of the fittest.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:05
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Lord Girlyman posted:"christian objectivst" What the gently caress does that even mean? That's like being a Republican communist.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:07
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greatn posted:Well we're doing a pretty god job of that actually. Just to be safe we've decided to pretty much kill the majority of the biodiversity on the planet.  Lord Girlyman posted:It's utterly depressing to me how little we seem to care about Colony Collapse Disorder. If God wanted Bees to survive he'd will them to bootstraps their way out of Colony Collapse Disorder and into the land of milk and honey.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:12
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Radish posted:Yes all those dangerous, fatal wolf and puma attack suburban American children have to worry about. Why in the last hundred years it must be in the 20s!  There were cougars sighted and killed within a half mile of my childhood home (a town of ~30,000). Not everyone lives in big cities where dangerous wild animals are nil. I have a friend whose dog was grabbed and eaten by a coyote while on a walk. This is in Reno less than 5 years ago.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:13
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greatn posted:Well we're doing a pretty god job of that actually. I've lost 3 out of 4 hives in 2 years so that is very true sadly.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:14
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Radish posted:Interestingly someone just posted an article in the Freep thread that talks about a similar attitude in regards to SUVs. PETA is all kinds of awful, but I can't help but suspect that someone who'd post something like that image has no idea of the real reasons why PETA sucks and just wanted to stick it to those libtards who keep saying that killing animals is bad.
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Sep 24, 2013 19:29
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Pfirti86 posted:What the gently caress does that even mean? That's like being a Republican communist. I'm not sure I can do it justice, but I'll try. It seemed that the primary pillar of this was the idea of tying in the prosperity gospel poo poo with objectivism. The idea is that god wants you to have nice stuff so he gave you free will so you might compete in the free market against those who are less godly in order to gain wealth. Also, laissez faire capitalism is endorsed by the bible, and their are hidden religious messages in the works of Ayn Rand. Also the founding fathers were rich and we know they're the best guys, so all rich people are equally as good. 
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Sep 24, 2013 19:59
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Is it worth continuing an argument with someone who doesn't believe in the marginal utility of a dollar and thinks that a rich person is just as likely to spend all of their income as a poor person?
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Sep 24, 2013 20:02
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Is it worth continuing an argument with someone who doesn't believe in the marginal utility of a dollar and thinks that a rich person is just as likely to spend all of their income as a poor person? If they actually reject the concept then no, it isn't. They have no rational basis for their beliefs and will only get angry.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:06
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Yeah, they explicitly rejected it. I think I'll just save myself the hassle since I don't actually know them, it's just a friend of an acquaintance.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:07
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Yeah, they explicitly rejected it. I think I'll just save myself the hassle since I don't actually know them, it's just a friend of an acquaintance. Ask them to empirically prove it.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:10
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Wojtek posted:Hmm I wonder if there is a reason it's not higher Yeah the reason there have been a statistically insignificant number of fatal attacks by cougars in America since the eighteen hundreds and no fatal wolf attacks in American history up until 2006 is because of heroic hunters killing them all preemptively. The reason why we weren't savaged by dodos or bison is similar. Coyote attacks are an entirely different phenomenon and are due to people feeding them (especially in SoCal) and thus losing their fear of humans. Even then they are rare and the answer isn't some boneheaded "kill 'em all, gently caress the environment" attitude.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:23
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Radish posted:Yes all those dangerous, fatal wolf and puma attack suburban American children have to worry about. Why in the last hundred years it must be in the 20s! That's some wonderful backwards logic; you got there. The reason why animal attacks are so low is because because we have hunted these predators to the point where they're not a threat anymore. Not being afraid of being eaten by something when you go outside is an amazing human achievement and you're acting like we're doing something wrong
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Sep 24, 2013 20:23
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It's certainly not due to American wolves having a natural fear of humans. You'd think that if they were such a problem humans were stopping you'd have examples of deadly wolf attacks in areas where hunters had yet culled them. Saying that driving the American wolf to near extinction is a human achievement is both incredibly arrogant and terrible and a reason it's a good thing that conservationists are involved in hunting politics.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 20:25
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