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SolidSnakesBandana posted:If alcohol were to be banned worldwide, I think Steam would suddenly see a massive decline in profits. In fact I think Steam should get a partnership with bars across the world in order to set up Steam kiosks inside the bars themselves. Oh God, tell me about it. I'm not really drunk tonight so I'm fine with this decision, though there have been a number of times I've woken to find entire packages of games in my Steam library that I had absolutely no recollection of purchasing. The Unreal pack in particular seems a very regrettable choice.
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Sep 25, 2013 19:40
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Rather Dashing posted:The Unreal pack in particular seems a very regrettable choice. 
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Sep 25, 2013 19:45
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The Kins posted:Yeah, it's kind of hard to imagine now, but Doom was kind of CRAZY back in the day, not just for having a detailed 3D world (Ultima Underworld and Bram Stoker's Dracula came out the same year, remember) but because it loving FLEW at a steady framerate on the average 486 while the other games I mentioned kind of chugged. Ultima Underworld came out in March '92, a full 2 months before Wolfenstein 3D. One trick both those games used was shrinking the viewport to maybe half the screen to achieve better framerates. Doom let you use the whole screen.
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Sep 25, 2013 20:06
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Zaphod42 posted:Also what do you mean Q3 sniper sucked? Railgun instagib was the poo poo back in the day. Railgun instagib, yes, but in the base game without any tweaks it takes two or three hits to kill someone. If it was a one-hit kill weapon no matter what, it would be a lot more useful (though still very situational due to its slow fire rate); as it stands, it's basically a way to show off.
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Sep 25, 2013 20:36
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I kinda forgot how loving stupid most of the enemies in Unreal look. The Skaarj are fine but those big dummies with dual rocket pistols are terrible. Game still has great atmosphere and environments though.
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Sep 25, 2013 20:39
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Compared to Wolfenstein, it's easy to see Doom as a "tech demo" of sorts in the classic id style, and in pure mechanical terms it wasn't so dramatically different from Wolf3D. But as everyone in this thread knows, the level design, pacing, and pure joy skyrocketed through the roof, into the stratosphere, and crash-landed on Phobos splattering a pack of pink demons into smoking giblets. I still feel like one of the biggest things that makes Doom so enduring (aside from, you know, everything) is personality. It's a nebulous concept, but it's like Potter Stewart's definition of pornography: you know it when you see it. And everything in Doom is just so gloriously iconic, from Bobby Prince's MIDI-metal soundtrack, to the feel of a shotgun blast, to the sneering face of a Cacodemon. Lightning in a bottle, man. 10/10, would play again forever.
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Sep 25, 2013 21:33
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There's no denying that Doom is not only a technical masterpiece, but a great classic that remains fresh to this day. I also feel the same for Duke Nukem 3D, both are examples games that just got it RIGHT. Everytime I play Doom, I always walk away satisfied.
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Sep 25, 2013 21:38
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The brief mention of Tribes earlier has made me sad about Tribes: Ascend more or less being abandoned. If you wanted fast-paced poo poo in a massive map then that series was the place to go.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:16
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Yodzilla posted:I kinda forgot how loving stupid most of the enemies in Unreal look. The Skaarj are fine but those big dummies with dual rocket pistols are terrible. Game still has great atmosphere and environments though. The Brutes are pretty bad in general. Their rocket spamming is easy to dodge and they're big enough that pretty much anything can hit them. They also have a really lovely "dodge" that makes it a pain to lob a large Eightball rocket volley at them, which is lame. The only time they're a real threat is at the beginning and the occasional ambush, like the one that appears in front of the titty goddess at Temple of Vandora after you get to the altar and the Behemoths in the small room at the end of Dasa Cellars. I'm pretty sure their shittiness is pretty much why they fall off the face of Na Pali after you finish the first mine area. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 25, 2013 22:17
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closeted republican posted:They also have a really lovely "dodge" that makes it a pain to lob a large Eightball rocket volley at them, which is lame. None of the enemies in Unreal 1 can dodge grenades, so if you want to put a lot of explosions in one place use that mode. I'm not sure if they can dodge in Oldskool since the UT bots can.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:19
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haveblue posted:None of the enemies in Unreal 1 can dodge grenades, so if you want to put a lot of explosions in one place use that mode. I'm not sure if they can dodge in Oldskool since the UT bots can. Grenades just aren't as cool as lobbing a giant cluster of rockets at them.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:20
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The Kins posted:Only for having Unreal 2 attached to your name forever. Last I heard, that can legally prevent you from entering certain careers. loving terrible. It went to Myst with Guns to this awful Halo clone that tries to ape what made Halo good, but fails. They slow you down just like Master Chief, and had these annoying grunt ripoffs, and it took me literally an hour just to complete a level, thanks to the slow-rear end movement. The worst bit is that the storytelling is actually decent - a more story-driven Halo 0.5, but that, of course, doesn't save it. Even Rainbow Six moved faster than this.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:28
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I did a quick google search and there's a way to increase the movement speed. Gonna try this out, it might actually be enjoyable if you can move faster.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:39
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It's still dragged down by many other issues, but tweaking the movement speed at least makes it somewhat playable, and without all the padding of walking across giant areas at glacial speed it's mercifully short.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:47
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haveblue posted:None of the enemies in Unreal 1 can dodge grenades, so if you want to put a lot of explosions in one place use that mode. I'm not sure if they can dodge in Oldskool since the UT bots can. The Duke 3D exploding drones beeping and evading RPG rockets 
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Sep 25, 2013 22:55
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In other Doom-related news, Brutal Doom creator Sgt. MarkIV released a video showing off what I can only assume is an early attempt at creating 2001's Duke Nukem Forever in the Doom engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyhMlwWl4Ng&feature=youtu.be
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Sep 25, 2013 23:04
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Luigi Thirty posted:The Duke 3D exploding drones beeping and evading RPG rockets Whoever thought the suicide drones in DN3D were a good idea needs to be punched in the face. I read a while back that DN3D's Episode 2 was hastily made at the end of the game's development cycle (think it was stated in the official guidebook IIRC). That probably explains poo poo like the suicide drone spam and the uneven difficulty E2 has. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 25, 2013 23:11
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Yeah E2 seems to think random explosions in your face and crusher traps are difficulty.
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Sep 25, 2013 23:20
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ChickenHeart posted:In other Doom-related news, Brutal Doom creator Sgt. MarkIV released a video showing off what I can only assume is an early attempt at creating 2001's Duke Nukem Forever in the Doom engine: It's hard to see this and not immediately conjure of images of Terminator. It's a great idea but since you can't fire weapons while riding I don't really see the point. Doomguy moves fast as gently caress as is.
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Sep 25, 2013 23:22
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Didn't that Italian guy who made some Super Hardcore Edgy parody .wads have that motorcycle in his .wad?
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Sep 26, 2013 00:53
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I'm really not a fan of vehicles in fps games.
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Sep 26, 2013 01:05
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JackMackerel posted:Didn't that Italian guy who made some Super Hardcore Edgy parody .wads have that motorcycle in his .wad? Yeah, but the vehicles basically moved like the player did, and it looks like SgtMark is trying to make them move more like vehicles...at least within reason.
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Sep 26, 2013 01:12
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FirstPersonShitter posted:I'm really not a fan of vehicles in fps games. Yeah, 9 times out of 10 the vehicles are literally just lovely, limited versions of the player character that don't get any sort of extra abilities to compensate for their major losses in mobility, weapon variety, and path options More often then not they're simply just railroading devices in disguise, trying to use the mysterious allure of riding them to mask it
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Sep 26, 2013 01:46
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NoodleBox posted:Yeah, 9 times out of 10 the vehicles are literally just lovely, limited versions of the player character that don't get any sort of extra abilities to compensate for their major losses in mobility, weapon variety, and path options Most of the time I just use them as extra health. The weapons are just a nice bonus. It's also fun to complete levels without vehicles the developers expect you to use. I did it with Serious Sam 2, and it made some fights a lot more interesting.
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Sep 26, 2013 02:02
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The old counter strike vehicle map bigcity or whatever was fun as heck guys. 
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Sep 26, 2013 02:02
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FirstPersonShitter posted:I'm really not a fan of vehicles in fps games. Player vehicles and enemy vehicles should be distinguished. Player vehicles usually suck. Shooting an enemy racing at you on a motorcycle, on the other hand, is awesome and fun. Oh, and Reelism's tank works. I think the 'effectively invincible this round' is a big part of making it work though, so you can't port that to games that are less insane.
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Sep 26, 2013 03:27
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If you make vehicles that both move faster than Doomguy and don't control like poo poo, that leaves me to ask: how big can you make levels in Doom source-ports? Like, before it gets all chuggy and the engine freaks out?
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Sep 26, 2013 04:54
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I think I'm the only guy that liked the vehicle sections in Half-Life 2. The chases were fun, and it really conveyed that you were traveling a long distance.
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Sep 26, 2013 05:27
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think I'm the only guy that liked the vehicle sections in Half-Life 2. The chases were fun, and it really conveyed that you were traveling a long distance. Nah, I thought they were cool. One of the few segments along those lins that I liked, ever, though.
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Sep 26, 2013 05:41
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think I'm the only guy that liked the vehicle sections in Half-Life 2. The chases were fun, and it really conveyed that you were traveling a long distance. The only level I don't really like in HL2 is Water Hazard, since the boat isn't the best ever and the level is annoying, but I like the vehicles in general. They definitely improved upon those sections when Episode 2 came out.
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Sep 26, 2013 06:11
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I liked the vehicles in UT2004, or it might have been 3, been awhile since I played. Anyone else?
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Sep 26, 2013 06:25
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think I'm the only guy that liked the vehicle sections in Half-Life 2. The chases were fun, and it really conveyed that you were traveling a long distance. They were okay, in my opinion, I thought the Halo sequences were a bit better at it. Then again, I'm biased from the entire Scorpion tank sequence. ^ Same here, though they're kinda generic. The fighters and Raptor are fun as hell to use, though, as well as the Cicada.
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Sep 26, 2013 07:00
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Railgun instagib, yes, but in the base game without any tweaks it takes two or three hits to kill someone. If it was a one-hit kill weapon no matter what, it would be a lot more useful (though still very situational due to its slow fire rate); as it stands, it's basically a way to show off. That actually balances it really well against the other weapons, though. Quake 3, 1v1 in particular, is very very much about health and pickup management as well as hunting players and predicting enemy movements. Hit them with a rail, and then spam rockets at the nearby health pickups and you'll get the kill. Quake 3 is all about earning your kills. In larger games, many players are walking around injured and it's easy to scoop up kills with the Railgun, but 1v1 is all about map control and there's no weapon that does it better than the Railgun. Given the high skill cap in Quake, if the Railgun was an instant kill, there wouldn't be any value to any of the other guns. Any professional can hit a single rail, and then each match would be a race to the railgun and it would be a fiasco. The Railgun fills a long-range map control niche, rather than a traditional sniper rifle that just feeds you free kills. You need to close out the kill either with another rail, or a bit of MG fire, or shotgun/rocket pressure, or close in with the lightning gun, or whatever.
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Sep 26, 2013 07:22
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JackMackerel posted:They were okay, in my opinion, I thought the Halo sequences were a bit better at it. Then again, I'm biased from the entire Scorpion tank sequence. The only vehicles that stood out for me in UT2k4 were the Cicada and Leviathan. The Cicada is hilarious because you can use it to pancake people or just run them over in a really silly way, while the Leviathan's sheer amount of power makes it death incarnate. The Raptor was fun the two or so times I used it, but I need to spend a little more time with it to really judge it. The other vehicles weren't anything special.
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Sep 26, 2013 07:28
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You mean the Manta? The Cicada was that awesome hover-bomber they added in the ECE pack. All the new vehicles they added were pretty cool (although the Paladin just felt like a less powerful tank, it should of had more armour) I just reinstalled it yesterday and the vehicles are still fun to use, the only one that doesn't feel satisfying to me is the Scorpion buggy - although it's green web can destroy a manta if it gets hit which I thought was a great touch. I didn't play UT3 much but the Necris vehicles weren't that amazing from what I remember.
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Sep 26, 2013 09:17
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NovaPolice posted:If you make vehicles that both move faster than Doomguy and don't control like poo poo, that leaves me to ask: Chugginess does not depend entirely on size (you can make a huge level made of only one single square sector), but Doom's use of integer math (much faster than floating point math at the time it was developed, when not every processor had an integrated math coprocessor) means that you'll get bugs if any distance exceeds the boundaries of a 32-bit int. Since they used 16.16 fixed point system, that means the largest dimension should not exceed what a 16-bit integer in map units. Make that a 15-point integer, since it's signed math and the most significant bit is used for the sign. (Negative distances are meaningless.) To make this less abstract, a floor-or-ceiling texture is a 64x64 tile (e.g., your standard issue teleport pad). The maximum distance must be less than 512 tiles. The only way to get rid of that limit is to use a port which has abandoned the original fixed point math everywhere and is using floating point math instead. I'm not sure any such port even exists... You certainly wouldn't be able to retain demo compatibility, which is seen as some sort of combination holy grail and sacred cow by a lot of Doom players and developers. If not using a port, you're also likely to run into this problem when attempting to make a huge map, even if the geometry is kept simple. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Sep 26, 2013 |
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Sep 26, 2013 11:52
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:The only level I don't really like in HL2 is Water Hazard, since the boat isn't the best ever and the level is annoying, but I like the vehicles in general. They definitely improved upon those sections when Episode 2 came out. I really liked Water Hazard, if thats the right level im thinking of, the calm down periods and the helicopter chase felt really atmospheric and the lack of being able to strike back captured that feeling of desperation that the first chapter had.
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Sep 26, 2013 12:16
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I'd like some recommendations on the best Doom co-op wads. Preferably ones that work well with Brutal Doom
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Sep 26, 2013 15:04
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Bouchacha posted:I'd like some recommendations on the best Doom co-op wads. Preferably ones that work well with Brutal Doom Looking for answers on this too! The goon Doom server is getting more active, so I'd like to shuffle WADs at least once a week.
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Sep 26, 2013 15:17
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Cat Mattress posted:Since they used 16.16 fixed point system, that means the largest dimension should not exceed what a 16-bit integer in map units. Make that a 15-point integer, since it's signed math and the most significant bit is used for the sign. (Negative distances are meaningless.) This is kinda confusing, you say you have to use a signed int but then that negative distances are meaningless; if negative distances were meaningless you could use an unsigned int. Distance itself is scalar but position can be negative, it just depends upon where your origin is. It uses a 16-bit signed number from -32768 to 32767, but negative values are fine and equivalent to an unsigned number from 0 to 65535, 2 ^ 16. The article you linked says you get a total area of 65535 x 65535, which is a full 16-bits, not 15. And he did say using sourceports, and they fixed the second bug you mentioned. So 65K units x 65K units is the theoretical max size of a sourceport doom map. Problems with chugginess though as you mentioned would have to do more with the number of sectors and the number of monsters and projectiles. So a big empty 65535x65535 hanger would be fine, but you try to fit all of doom in a single map, and things get pretty gnarly.
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