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The White Dragon posted:Isn't Red XIII the same as Yuffie in that his multi-hit is also his Level 3 limit? Tifa isn't bad either early-game since she'll hit multiple times out the gate. Vincent and Cait Sith are pretty much the only two you don't want to deal with. Actually, Vincent can turn into a demon which, in my experience, is both cool to think about and to see.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:32
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Fister Roboto posted:Succeed at what, exactly? Beating Final Fantasy XIII.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:33
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6EQUJ5 posted:I was thinking last night that I might try playing through the whole series (excluding XI and XIV). Is this a really stupid idea that will only cause me pain? Go for it, what's the worst that could happen?
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Sep 26, 2013 21:40
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Don't skip 14. It actually has a complete storyline that only requires you play with other people a handful of times.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:45
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Been meaning to ask this question forever, but I always forget, so here goes. Is it a staple of Japanese video games and/or animation that characters do the ridiculous dramatic breathing thing (like this ridiculous thing) or is it just Final Fantasy? Or is it in localization? I remember Vanille in particular gasping all the time in XIII, and it just comes off as so weird to me.
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Sep 26, 2013 21:54
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Great Lakes Log posted:Actually, Vincent can turn into a demon which, in my experience, is both cool to think about and to see. Azure_Horizon posted:Red XIII's multi-hitter is level 2, and it's really weak. The damage multipliers on it are low (5/8th regular damage per hit).
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Sep 26, 2013 22:04
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Fister Roboto posted:Succeed at what, exactly? Not dying and not killing everyone. There is a sequel but it is even stupider and an explicit retcon of FFXIII's ending ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 26, 2013 |
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Sep 26, 2013 22:10
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Beating Final Fantasy XIII. Or, "reaching the end of the tube."
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Sep 26, 2013 22:20
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It's not often that something needs the entirety of space-time to be ruined just for the first sequel to have a reason to happen. And then again for the second sequel. One of the biggest problems with the continuity is that the only people in the universe that are relevant to all this are the same assholes you played as in the first game. Why would Sazh be involved in anything after the first game, since he managed to get his son back, and didn't really like fighting anyway? Well, they needed something to sell as DLC. Let's make the Gods take his kid away or something so we don't have to make any changes to his character or motivation.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:24
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Eh "the only important people are the people from the original game + 1 or 2 new people" is basically something that applies to almost every sequel ever made. The point of sequels is to revisit a universe and that tends to involve somewhat hamfisted ways to bring back characters who really shouldn't logically be back because the other choice is just not including them. FFXIII-2 beginning with "well, poo poo, guess the ending didn't happen" is just lazy though.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:26
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ImpAtom posted:Eh "the only important people are the people from the original game + 1 or 2 new people" is basically something that applies to almost every sequel ever made. The point of sequels is to revisit a universe and that tends to involve somewhat hamdfisted ways to bring back characters who really shouldn't logically be back because the other choice is just not including them. Despite completely shifting the geography of the world around I liked Lunar 2's approach of actually taking place waaaay the hell after Lunar 1 so nobody was still alive except the goddess and most of what is passed on from the first game are ancient relics, companies, and remnants of the conflict now repurposed.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:29
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The White Dragon posted:Oh yeah, it's absolutely cool to see. Once, and then never again. And never against bosses. I think it's because Yuffie's hits 15 times, and at max strength she can do more total damage than Red XIII's Earth Rave which is five hits at double damage, since the cap is 9999. At max strength, Stardust Ray would do more total damage as well, since it's 10 hits. It's still nothing on Doom of the Living. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 26, 2013 |
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Sep 26, 2013 22:33
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Phantasy Star 1, 2, and 4 did the same thing. We don't talk about Phantasy Star 3.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:34
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I wish more game sequels could be along the lines of Silent Hill 2, or Resident Evil 4. The previous games still exist, and may be referenced, but it's a new story without all the baggage that having the cult/Umbrella would entail. Silent Hill I-2 would have been about Harry Mason rescuing his daughter again from the same cult, except he's now travelling through time into suspiciously-similar looking areas separated by enormous loading times. None of the enemies pose any sort of threat, and he's aided by a super-deformed floating Pyramid Head with a whiny, high-pitched voice.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:35
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Maybe it's just because I'm older now, but while both X-2 and XIII-2 were pretty silly, and wild stylistic departures, X-2 felt like a sequel to X, while XIII-2 left me feeling like I'd played high production value fanfiction. Right down to the terrible OC and his mary-sue rival, the sidelining of a canon pairing in favour of him, an idiotic cosmology-mangling time-travel plot not as clever as it thinks it is and the lavishing of incongruous superpowers on a popular character from the original.quote:The point of sequels is to revisit a universe and that tends to involve somewhat hamfisted ways to bring back characters who really shouldn't logically be back because the other choice is just not including them. Great final boss rush though.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:40
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Well, FFX-2 had a coherent theme. It was revisiting a world which had suffered under 1,000 years of religious oppression and unrelenting horror and was now the cultural equivalent of a repressed homeschooled teenager on their first bender. It was goofy as poo poo but it at least made sense as a counterpart to FFX. FFXIII-2 is like... loving time paradoxes I guess?
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Sep 26, 2013 22:43
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FF13-2 is Square saying "If we make up a new meaning for a word, like 'chaos' or 'paradox' and just yell it all the time, our story doesn't have to make sense."
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Sep 26, 2013 22:48
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Noel wasn't particularly terrible. He just wasn't particularly anything at all, ending up as just Some Guy, though he did have a few good lines. I have a big soft spot for Caius though, mainly because he is fabulous as hell and I could listen to him talk for days, and the idea of a immortal dude who just constantly fucks with the player and can turn into at least 4 techno-dragons is pretty neat. The plot had some interesting ideas but never really went anywhere with them. The worst offense of 13-2 is Serah. She is a completely awful character with no redeeming qualities that was added to appeal to the wrong sort of people, or to replace Lightning but with none of the things people like about Lightning. Also Sazh should've been chosen to be the knight of the goddess or whatever. Really just every character should have been Sazh, except for Caius.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:49
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ImpAtom posted:Well, FFX-2 had a coherent theme. It was revisiting a world which had suffered under 1,000 years of religious oppression and unrelenting horror and was now the cultural equivalent of a repressed homeschooled teenager on their first bender. It was goofy as poo poo but it at least made sense as a counterpart to FFX. FFX-2 is one of the most optimistic games I've ever played. What happens to the world after centuries of religious terror and space whales? They just want to have fun! Spira follows the same character arc as Yuna: you put on a fun shirt and have adventures with your friends but the idea of not helping someone who needs it just never comes to mind.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:52
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FFXIII-2 is basically Chrono Cross but less good, thinking about it. "Whoops, turns out the happy ending wasn't so happy. Thanks to time paradoxes and bullshit, all the cast effectively got hosed over offscreen. Play as a new character and another character who appeared in but was unplayable in the original game as you deal with a bunch of inane bullshit."
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Sep 26, 2013 22:54
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CC seems a lot more bitter, though. The more I think about CC, the less I like it because it seems to make you want to be guilty you saved the world from Lavos because humans are awful, awful, awful (even though none of that was in CT).
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Sep 26, 2013 22:58
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ImpAtom posted:FFXIII-2 is basically Chrono Cross but less good, thinking about it.  so sure, FF13 is ^that except less good, I can buy that.
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Sep 26, 2013 22:58
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The White Dragon posted:Oh yeah, it's absolutely cool to see. Once, and then never again. And never against bosses. Right after getting Vincent I used his limit break for the first time on a boss that was healed by fire damage, but I hadn't saved for a while so I had to slowing whittle the boss down as he healed him over and over. Ugh.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:02
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Should've just iced Vincent.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:07
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Mr. Maltose posted:Should've just iced Vincent. Yeah, my friend pointed that out the next day when I told him, but this was 16 years ago 
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Sep 26, 2013 23:11
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Defiance Industries posted:CC seems a lot more bitter, though. The more I think about CC, the less I like it because it seems to make you want to be guilty you saved the world from Lavos because humans are awful, awful, awful (even though none of that was in CT). Honestly I kind of like CC because of this. It's kind of an interesting twist and the fact that it sprang up because you killed wasn't meant to be killed (Or didn't kill it hard enough in that new ending in the DS version.) is pretty interesting. The protagonists of the last game abused a fragile time line and time travel to cheat the system and save the world from a death that was meant to happen until they hosed up and created a bunch of time holes and then Chrono Cross comes along as says "Yeah good job, you change the future! Now here's what happens when you gently caress with time that bad." It didn't do it really well but it was kind of cool.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:12
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I think my main problem was that it did so not by introducing a world in, say, 2100 AD where humans were all assholes to robots and mystics, but that they went back and decided that all the people in 1000 AD were actually secret racists the whole time and so maybe trying to save the entire planet's biosphere from being consumed by an evil alien parasite is somehow wrong. It's like arguing for not saving someone who's tied to train tracks because maybe they're secretly Hitler.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:20
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I rarely care much about stories in video games, so CC's being somewhat of a train wreck that negates much of CT isn't a huge problem for me, but I particularly like it for its attempt to mix up the typical turn based battle and magic systems and its stellar soundtrack, and for a ps1 game it was very pretty. While the huge number of randomly generated accent characters is definitely a flaw, there were at least a good number of interesting ones, and the secondary characters (e.g., Orlha, Grobyc, Norris, etc.) were at least worked in reasonably well. Some like Van and Funguy were completely pointless and could easily have been scrubbed from the game, though. I'd wager most people have at least a couple of the irrelevant characters that they have a soft spot for. It'd be Poshul, Orlha, and Steena for me. And I liked the luchador priest, but he had absolutely no reason to exist.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:22
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chumbler posted:It'd be Poshul [...] for me. I think you're the actual only one. Personally I think ZOAH is in fact the best character but he's relevant. If only slightly.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:27
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Final Fantasy VIII had a kick-rear end robot spider. It was weak to thunder spells but you had a time limit and at the end your sexy teacher shoots it with a goddamn gatling gun. Final Fantasy VII had you snowboard down a mountain and ride a motorcycle down a highway, slicing other motherfuckers who are also on motorcycles with a sword as big as you are. I just wanted to remind people of awesome things that were in Final Fantasy games.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:31
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Winks posted:Right after getting Vincent I used his limit break for the first time on a boss that was healed by fire damage, but I hadn't saved for a while so I had to slowing whittle the boss down as he healed him over and over. Ugh. Ha, I had the opposite problem with him once. I had a ring on him that healed all of (some form of) Jenova's attacks, and he had transformed then my other two characters got killed. So I walked away while he finished the boss fight.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:32
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chumbler posted:luchador priest, no reason to exist. I've noticed a contradiction in your statement here. And really, Chrono Cross really shows how it's another RPG that turned into a Chrono Trigger game later. The "Boy Howdy humans sure are dicks to nature" theme is actually the plot of, what, half of all RPGs?
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Sep 26, 2013 23:34
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Final Fantasy VIII had a kick-rear end robot spider. It was weak to thunder spells but you had a time limit and at the end your sexy teacher shoots it with a goddamn gatling gun. No, the most awesome thing is forcing Azul Magia to kill itself. Master of Blue Magic; non-possessor of common sense. Mr. Maltose posted:I've noticed a contradiction in your statement here. My favorite is that across multiple playthroughs and story branches the Dwarves are just total rat bastards who will blame humans for 100% of the problems no matter what. Its the most hilarious thing because the game tries to make you feel bad over the fairy/dwarf genocide but you as the player know that across space and time the Dwarves are getting exactly what they deserve.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:41
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Barudak posted:No, the most awesome thing is forcing Azul Magia to kill itself. Master of Blue Magic; non-possessor of common sense. That seriously has to rank up among the top percent of awesome/satisfying boss kills. PEER PRESSURE, MAN, PEER PRESSURE
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Sep 26, 2013 23:43
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Mr. Maltose posted:And really, Chrono Cross really shows how it's another RPG that turned into a Chrono Trigger game later. The "Boy Howdy humans sure are dicks to nature" theme is actually the plot of, what, half of all RPGs? I really doubt that Chrono Cross was ever "another RPG that turned into a Chrono Trigger sequel", it's mostly that with Chrono Trigger Masato Kato was under Yuji Hori's thumb, while with Cross he had free reign to do what he wanted.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:45
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Kyrosiris posted:That seriously has to rank up among the top percent of awesome/satisfying boss kills. PEER PRESSURE, MAN, PEER PRESSURE If you can struggle to grind out FF2 you can toad the final boss. Casting Death on Orphan in FFXIII is also amusing as hell because it makes whats a grandiose fight take approximately 6-10 seconds with some luck. Edit: Any magic user fight where you can Beserk them is cool as well. FF12 had a lot of those for some reason.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:45
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Dr Pepper posted:I really doubt that Chrono Cross was ever "another RPG that turned into a Chrono Trigger sequel", it's mostly that with Chrono Trigger Masato Kato was under Yuji Hori's thumb, while with Cross he had free reign to do what he wanted. It has exceptionally little to do with Chrono Trigger except some place names until BAM! All the plot is dumped at the, what, 80% point?
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Sep 26, 2013 23:47
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Mr. Maltose posted:It has exceptionally little to do with Chrono Trigger except some place names until BAM! All the plot is dumped at the, what, 80% point? It's filled right from the start with little nods and references to Chrono Trigger though. The problem is horrid pacing and infodumping.
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Sep 26, 2013 23:49
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ImpAtom posted:Mechanical demigods inflict a geas upon humans to destroy their home in an attempt to summon the demigod's creator. The humans rebel against it and eventually succeed. If you're going to use made-up words, I'm going to also need supplementary reference materials.
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Sep 27, 2013 00:14
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Looper posted:If you're going to use made-up words, I'm going to also need supplementary reference materials. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geas
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Sep 27, 2013 00:16
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