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USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.
So I got a quick question for all of you that have been around for a while;
I'm just using my CRT, almost got him all the way ranked up. However, I find that I play the close game more than anything, I tuned the CRT for maximum boost and have been dumping points into fuel whenever I get them. As such, I decided to shovel out the money for an SMG. I like it a lot, and I think it suits my play style. However, when I try to run the berserker I just get wrecked. What am I doing wrong? With the CRT I sit around a 1.50-2.0 KDR every match, but that plummets to about .5 with the berserker. I would think that the berserker would fit my play style even more so, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, would the vulcan be a worthwhile purchase for an in-your-face player?

Also, also, if the berserker doesn't fit the role, what is a good brawler? The CRT does well, but I want something more focused.

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Saturnine Aberrance
Sep 6, 2010

Creator.

Please make me flesh.


With the SMC on the Berserker, it's somewhere in between mid and close range. It loses accuracy fast if you get too far out, but too close and you run the risk of losing the DPS race against guns that are built more for that range, or against classes that have more HP than you do. The Vulcan is perfect for close range, though, because it does a ton of damage fast, and it's inaccuracy makes it perfect for short ranges.

Brawlers are also perfect mechs for super close-quarters combat. General Brawler philosophy is to get right up in your opponents face and stay there, since you have the weaponry and the armor to withstand it, and come out more than on top if played right. Just be careful, despite having a ton of health, it can melt pretty quickly if you get caught in the open or are flanked around cover. Always have an escape route, and learn to recognize whether things will be going south so you can get out of there before things get all the way bad, since Brawler is also by far the slowest class in the game.

Horace Kinch
Aug 15, 2007

USMC_Karl posted:

So I got a quick question for all of you that have been around for a while;
I'm just using my CRT, almost got him all the way ranked up. However, I find that I play the close game more than anything, I tuned the CRT for maximum boost and have been dumping points into fuel whenever I get them. As such, I decided to shovel out the money for an SMG. I like it a lot, and I think it suits my play style. However, when I try to run the berserker I just get wrecked. What am I doing wrong? With the CRT I sit around a 1.50-2.0 KDR every match, but that plummets to about .5 with the berserker. I would think that the berserker would fit my play style even more so, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, would the vulcan be a worthwhile purchase for an in-your-face player?

Also, also, if the berserker doesn't fit the role, what is a good brawler? The CRT does well, but I want something more focused.

The Berserker is all about dealing as much damage in as little time as possible. They're not built for extended combat. Try dumping your points in Air Dynamics or whatever it's called, it will make it so hovering doesn't make you a free kill. Berserkers are flying death angels. Also, ditch your SMG and get a Vulcan, that's the go-to-gun if you like to get up close and personal. Keep your enemies beneath you. Once you find the sweet spot you'll discover that if you hover over them at the right angle you can shoot them but they can't shoot back. Oh, and getting the Air-Dodge internal is mandatory.

LiquidFusion
Feb 11, 2004
Ezra < Me < Jake

Hypha posted:

I've only ever used the turret mode as a Brawler regularly and that is as a semi-out of combat heal. Everyone else is incredibly situational when to use it. Compared to how integral other powers are in how a mech plays, the turret mode definitely feels lacking in both flavour and effectiveness.

I urge people to think outside the box when using turret mode. The Vanguard has 50% damage reduction in turret mode which is pretty insane. Additionally, the Grenadier gets a pretty decent boost to the Rev-GL when in turret mode. While they obviously aren't perfect, they are far from useless. I do agree that they are incredibly situational.

O and don't forget that you take extra damage from the back, basically the only way to kill a turreted Vanguard.

TopHatGenius
Oct 3, 2008

something feels
different

Hot Rope Guy
I'm done with Sige and the missile mode for a while. Every game is played like a Deathmatch game. No one gets to the AA or Missile Bases and we got rolled over while my teams have their fingers stuck up their asses. Or when I do try for a Team DM or DM game, it's mostly the enemy team getting 40 to 5 or so.

Why are pubbies soo terrible at this game?

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

TopHatGenius posted:

I'm done with Sige and the missile mode for a while. Every game is played like a Deathmatch game. No one gets to the AA or Missile Bases and we got rolled over while my teams have their fingers stuck up their asses. Or when I do try for a Team DM or DM game, it's mostly the enemy team getting 40 to 5 or so.

Why are pubbies soo terrible at this game?

In my (limited) time playing it seems that most people don't understand the idea of staying together. I'll generally spawn and find someone, anyone, that seems to be doing at least marginally well. Then I'll play the "stay near *player* " game and just make it my job to support him. Most of the time this works out well, and generally helps the team stay pretty salient.

There have been a disappointing large number of games where my team has sat at base and shot at the battleship instead of, you know, pushing AA and taking it down that way.

If the OP is still updated, could I be added to the list of players? Name in game is same as my SA name. I tend to only play late night in South Korea though, so timezones could be an issue.

USMC_Karl - USMC_Karl

Saturnine Aberrance
Sep 6, 2010

Creator.

Please make me flesh.


Woops. Didn't mean to make a post here. Uhh.

Yeah, a lot of people aren't so hot on the teamwork nonsense, but that's what we have the list for, right? Presumably this way you'll be able to team up with people who do know what they are doing.

What I've always done is friend anyone who was better than me, or was unusually good, and use that as a way to find games with players that are more likely to know what they are doing.

(Anyway, everyone requesting addition to the OP has been added.)

Saturnine Aberrance fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Sep 30, 2013

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

Saturnine Aberrance posted:

With the SMC on the Berserker, it's somewhere in between mid and close range. It loses accuracy fast if you get too far out, but too close and you run the risk of losing the DPS race against guns that are built more for that range, or against classes that have more HP than you do. The Vulcan is perfect for close range, though, because it does a ton of damage fast, and it's inaccuracy makes it perfect for short ranges.

Brawlers are also perfect mechs for super close-quarters combat. General Brawler philosophy is to get right up in your opponents face and stay there, since you have the weaponry and the armor to withstand it, and come out more than on top if played right. Just be careful, despite having a ton of health, it can melt pretty quickly if you get caught in the open or are flanked around cover. Always have an escape route, and learn to recognize whether things will be going south so you can get out of there before things get all the way bad, since Brawler is also by far the slowest class in the game.

Hmm, that actually sounds quite interesting. I'll have to try out the Brawler, because I like the close-game. I always figured it would be a little too slow (being a C-class) to really close to engagement range. It seems like you'd have to use terrain much more to set up ambushes to offset the slower speed. Am I totally mistaken in that assumption? I will admit that the Brawler's flak cannon has me interested, and the idea of opening up the scout later seems pretty cool. I'll give it a spin next time I'm online.

sitchelin posted:

The Berserker is all about dealing as much damage in as little time as possible. They're not built for extended combat. Try dumping your points in Air Dynamics or whatever it's called, it will make it so hovering doesn't make you a free kill. Berserkers are flying death angels. Also, ditch your SMG and get a Vulcan, that's the go-to-gun if you like to get up close and personal. Keep your enemies beneath you. Once you find the sweet spot you'll discover that if you hover over them at the right angle you can shoot them but they can't shoot back. Oh, and getting the Air-Dodge internal is mandatory.

That's actually a little scary. I don't generally play well with three dimensions, so I might have to pass on the Berserker. I think I mainly find the CRT more playable because it's a surprisingly rugged mech. It's got decent armor, decent speed, and decent.... well... everything. I can, if playing smart, take out C class or A class mechs in CQB even though they have more armor/maneuverability. Doubly so if I get the drop on them. I think my favorite thing to do with the CRT is, when playing siege, try to find a tail to flank around behind the AA (if the enemy holds it) or set up in ambush (if we hold it). The hit-and-run nature of the Berserker appeals to me, but I think I need something with a little more longevity.

On to another question;

It seems like you can easily play this game without putting money into it at all, however I was considering dumping some money into it because A)it's a lot of fun and B)cosmetic things are cool. It seems to me that all of the options that effect game-play (weapons, internals, items, etc) are unlockable with normal funds and that the MC only purchases are purely cosmetic, is this true? I was thinking of getting a camo paint job for my mech and a newer, spiffy repair drone. Purely cosmetic things, as far as I know, but I don't want to purchase these things only to find out that I wasted my hard-earned $5 or whatever on something that will unlock later.

Horace Kinch
Aug 15, 2007

There's a guide on the Hawken site somewhere that explains which camos and cosmetics you unlock as you gain mech levels. But yes, weapons, internals, etc. anything with an actual impact on gameplay are all unlockable with the in-game currency. The mech chassis with spooky skulls and the more creative repair drones can only be gained with MC. You can purchase weapons/internals with MC if you want to skip the grind but I don't recommend it; they're fairly cheap on their own. There's also XP/HC boosts if you want to speed things along.

Saturnine Aberrance
Sep 6, 2010

Creator.

Please make me flesh.


USMC_Karl posted:

Hmm, that actually sounds quite interesting. I'll have to try out the Brawler, because I like the close-game. I always figured it would be a little too slow (being a C-class) to really close to engagement range. It seems like you'd have to use terrain much more to set up ambushes to offset the slower speed. Am I totally mistaken in that assumption? I will admit that the Brawler's flak cannon has me interested, and the idea of opening up the scout later seems pretty cool. I'll give it a spin next time I'm online.

Bolded is absolutely right. Brawler is SLOOOOWWW. At it's absolute fastest, it's walk/run speed is equal to the vanguards' at default, and its boost speed is still slower than the any other mechs' base. This can be mitigated by smart positioning, and being on top of map-awareness. However, despite its slowness, it can still get work done using combinations of boosts and dodges around opponents when up close or near cover, it'll just take practice.

As for going flow in general, this goes for all of the C classes (Except Vanguard, drat thing's as fast as an A class), getting balls-deep in one as soon as possible is going to do you a world of good in terms of getting comfortable with them, and it'll do wonders for your overall development of map awareness, how games flow, and how the other classes get their jobs done. Being stuck in the slowest mech means you have to take the time to figure out how to get around the map as efficiently as possible, and how your opponents will tend to be moving. It also gets you to become really aware of exactly when you should back out of a bad situation. A classes get the luxury of running away whenever they feel like, while C classes have to recognize that things are going to go poorly soon, not they are going poorly now. If things are going poorly now, then you probably don't have the time and space to get all the way out of there intact.

Basically I'm a huge C class apologist, but seriously go use one.


USMC_Karl posted:

On to another question;

It seems like you can easily play this game without putting money into it at all, however I was considering dumping some money into it because A)it's a lot of fun and B)cosmetic things are cool. It seems to me that all of the options that effect game-play (weapons, internals, items, etc) are unlockable with normal funds and that the MC only purchases are purely cosmetic, is this true? I was thinking of getting a camo paint job for my mech and a newer, spiffy repair drone. Purely cosmetic things, as far as I know, but I don't want to purchase these things only to find out that I wasted my hard-earned $5 or whatever on something that will unlock later.

Nothing cosmetic you can buy with MC is something that is unlocked through progression. You can get a few paint jobs, thrusters and repair drones through leveling up your pilot ranking or maxing out your mechs, but you can't buy any of that with MC, and that same progression isn't going to get you any of the other cosmetic stuff. And yeah, nothing MC only affects gameplay, it's all about being pretty.

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:

LiquidFusion posted:

I urge people to think outside the box when using turret mode. The Vanguard has 50% damage reduction in turret mode which is pretty insane. Additionally, the Grenadier gets a pretty decent boost to the Rev-GL when in turret mode. While they obviously aren't perfect, they are far from useless. I do agree that they are incredibly situational.

O and don't forget that you take extra damage from the back, basically the only way to kill a turreted Vanguard.

You do agree though that they are incredibly situational. Every other class has abilities which really help to define the role of the mech and give it an edge in combat. The Raider is as much its ability as its loadout. What really differentiates one C-classs from another? More than anything it is the weapon load-out and tuning, you can treat all the abilities interchangeably with slight variation. This does not apply to any other class. I would love to see something different but it seems like turret mode is a core design decision or something. Wish it did more to make it more interesting, not so much more powerful. As it stands, turret mode is risky in that it locks you into a position and you're expected to take a lot more damage than necessary, due to the loss of your dodge. Also, when you are that committed, you are a ripe target for flanking, of which mechs like the Raider or Scout love to do. Outside of turret mode, you have both quick turn and dodge and can capitalize more on sloppy positioning, which gets you more kills than anything else. In most cases, the disadvantages outweigh the benefits, which is not the case for the abilities of the other classes.

In the vein of the Tech, I would rather see the turret special abilities be more team based than individualistic. It would really help for point defense if, for example, the Brawlers heal was an aura. Encouraging teammates to stay with you goes a long way to mitigating the mobility loss and it sounds more tactically involved. Being able to give teammates a minor boost in health, damage or some other parameter in tense, clutch situations would do more for me to consider turret mode than any kind of individual advantage.

LiquidFusion
Feb 11, 2004
Ezra < Me < Jake

Hypha posted:

You do agree though that they are incredibly situational. Every other class has abilities which really help to define the role of the mech and give it an edge in combat. The Raider is as much its ability as its loadout. What really differentiates one C-classs from another? More than anything it is the weapon load-out and tuning, you can treat all the abilities interchangeably with slight variation. This does not apply to any other class. I would love to see something different but it seems like turret mode is a core design decision or something. Wish it did more to make it more interesting, not so much more powerful. As it stands, turret mode is risky in that it locks you into a position and you're expected to take a lot more damage than necessary, due to the loss of your dodge. Also, when you are that committed, you are a ripe target for flanking, of which mechs like the Raider or Scout love to do. Outside of turret mode, you have both quick turn and dodge and can capitalize more on sloppy positioning, which gets you more kills than anything else. In most cases, the disadvantages outweigh the benefits, which is not the case for the abilities of the other classes.

In the vein of the Tech, I would rather see the turret special abilities be more team based than individualistic. It would really help for point defense if, for example, the Brawlers heal was an aura. Encouraging teammates to stay with you goes a long way to mitigating the mobility loss and it sounds more tactically involved. Being able to give teammates a minor boost in health, damage or some other parameter in tense, clutch situations would do more for me to consider turret mode than any kind of individual advantage.

Well I would argue that with the exception of the Tech, all other mech abilities could easily switch mechs. Only the Grenadier and Rocketeer have abilities that only make sense on *only* them. However, I don't think that alone makes them interesting. Uniqueness isn't the sole determiner of a "fun" ability. It is all about how it fits into the bigger picture. The Raider and Sharpshooter mechs both have abilities that feel really good on them, and to no surprise they are very popular mechs. You could easily put the Brawler and Vanguard turret mode on any other C, but they are generally the most liked turret modes.

WITH THAT SAID, I personally agree with you that I would like to see more abilities be team focused. The word I use around the office is "synergy". I personally am a fan of when mechs fit together well. I think if you looks at the mechs we've created post-launch, and can look at the direction we've going. You've mentioned the Tech and the Raider as successful class design, and guess what? We agree! I can't say much about future plans (THEY ARE ALWAYS WATCHING), but I can repeat what we have said before, "We are not married to turret mode for future mechs."

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:
Oh, I forgot you were a dev. Yes, it is true that nothing is really stopping you from switching a lot of the abilities around, save for the ones you mentioned. I was under the impression that the abilities of each mech were more concrete in the developers mind, in that the ability component was an important case of identity. If that is not true, than the point I made is wrong. Thank you for clearing that up. As well, it is true that uniqueness is a weak determiner of "fun". I should clarify that I share your position as well, in that uniqueness is nothing without a grander view. I admit I am a fan of complexity sometimes just for the sake of it in my video games.

In regards to your current philosophy of design, I really like what I am hearing so far and look forward to see what you guys come up with next. A synergistic approach, to me, has a lot of appeal.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.
So I tried out the Brawler last night and had some ups and downs. I was generally able to get quite a lot of kills with the thing, I think I'm sitting at like 1.6-1.7 KDR with it which is nice. However, I always seemed to be absorbing more damage than I was dealing. Is that relatively normal? I did have to take to the maps in a different way from what I normally do, and eventually I just pretty much gave up on trying to use it in Last Eco because it was too open, but it seemed like I spent a lot of my game repairing myself. I guess that is how it should be, I tend to focus fire on the C classes whenever I see them with my CRT so it stands to reason that I'd attract a lot more fire with the Brawler.

All in all, positive so far. The flak cannon took some getting used to with my ping, usually leading the enemy by about .5-1 second, but when I got used to it I realized that the stupid thing hits hard. Usually could take out an A/B class without breaking too much of a sweat provided that I didn't have to close distance with them in the open. If they were in the open (like on Last Eco) then things would go a little pear shaped and my chances of winning the engagement would be 50/50 at best.

What would be a good tune for the Brawler? I currently put a lot of my points into Boost/fuel/something else, maybe Hydraulics? I'm thinking that wasn't a very good move, because even with all that this thing is a pig.

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:
Yoink



Saturnine Aberrance posted:

Here's what I use on my Brawler.



Weapons Loader is great because both weapons are burst fire, and more shots=more better, does result in more heat though, but we'll get to that in a bit. Armor is great even on Brawler because even though the return on investment is a bit smaller for the C's, you find yourself barely surviving a lot in Hawken, and the little bits matter. On top of that, it's more armor for the Armor Fusor internal to heal you based off of. I used to put points into Heatsinks, but I was finding that in the more heated engagements I would still wind up over the edge and into overheat, and then I'd have to deal with the Brawlers immense 10 second overheat cooldown, far and away the longest cooldown of all the mechs. So, I decided to take the points I had put in heatsinks and move them to Cooling Units which cut my overheat recovery in half. 5 seconds is still quite a while, but it's faster than any other mechs' default cooldown (though any other mech with Cooling Units can get it down faster than 5 seconds) and it means that if I overheat on kill, by the time I reach my next opponent I'm ready again, or if I overheat mid-fight, there's a good chance my enemy will be too, and I'll be back up before long, or the 5 seconds isn't usually too hard to survive, and come out on top of, especially if I can get some cover between us.

As for mobility with the Brawler: That was my original goal; I had all mobility maxed out. Unfortunately, it turns out that Brawler is far and away the slowest class in the game. So much so that: At your absolute fastest as a Brawler, you are still slower than any other mech at it's slowest. Brawler is REALLY slow. So, maxing out those stats doesn't give you much bang for your buck. I don't put points into Suspensions on Brawler because the dodge cooldown is a full 2 seconds, and getting a little more than a quarter of a second off of that much of a cooldown is not worth the investment. Makes more sense on classes with shorter cooldowns. So, I bring my armor up to 1100, and use the remaining points in Boost Thrusters and Hydraulics so I'm a bit more agile on the battlefield, and a bit less entirely at the mercy of where my opponent decides to go.

Of course, this is only half of the story on the Brawler. :getin:

The other half is the internals, and they're really what transforms the Brawler into something more like a Doom Bringer. With the right setup, the Brawler winds up as the fattest tank in the game with some really solid burst DPS to take down it's opponents quickly, and if you get good momentum going like this it's really hard to stop you.



Alright, so here I have the Advanced Armor Fusor, and this internal should be a default on C's at the least, B's and A's should think long and hard about putting at least the Med. Armor Fusor on their mech. The Adv. Fusor works particularly well on the Brawler because its health is much larger than other classes, and so has the most to gain from this. With my tuning setup, every kill will net you 275 health, and every assist gets you 165. That's over time, not instantly, so if you're near full, and get a kill, if you're under fire you'll be healing during your enemy's attack for the next 10 seconds. This internal is really great, and it makes you see your enemies as walking health tanks more than anything.

Basic Extractor is pretty simple, it gets you orb health 25% faster, which is great in conjunction with the armor fusor, since if you just killed/got an assist on someone, you can sit on their delicious mech soul for more health quickly as well. The Repair Kit further helps with that by giving you 25% more health on every health charge, whether it's one you drop that you had equipped, or one that dropped off an enemy mech. With all these internals combined, when you kill an enemy you're automatically regenerating a significant chunk of health, on top of the larger amount of health you can get more quickly off of their corpse, as well as the health you can gain from either Brawler turret mode, or the health you drop with your repair charge. Or both. It makes you an enormous pain in the rear end to take out in the right circumstances, and once you get the momentum for this going, you can take out a significant portion of an entrenched team, taking a nice chunk of health from each one in the process.

Of course, having said all that, your lack of mobility can be a liability and you have to be EXTREMELY careful not to get too deep into an engagement as the Brawler, because once you get in, barring a huge distraction, you aren't getting back out because of how slow you are, and how much faster your opponents will be. Always know where the nearest cover is, and how far away it is. Always have an escape route planned. If things feel like they're going to go south, leave then, NOT later. If you're coming up on an engagement with multiple, strong opponents, the time to leave is before you start shooting them, not after. Maybe take a few potshots with the TOW or Flak if they're close enough, but you better have teammates backing you up, at the very least as a distraction so not everyone comes straight for you. Be next to cover, and be ready to retreat along it as soon as you get too much unwanted attention.

Don't worry that you get hit as much as you are hitting, just win baby. :smug:

Saturnine Aberrance
Sep 6, 2010

Creator.

Please make me flesh.


Do note that that part of the quote regarding the internals is a bit out of date. Armor fusor is no longer the ridiculous thing it once was. 20% health on kill over 20 seconds instead of 25% over ten is quite the nerf, and it absolutely needed it. For most other classes, it might not be worth it for you. However, since the Brawler has a ton of health, it may still be worthwhile to you. Since the armor fusor has lost it's former luster, you should take a long hard look at the advanced repair kit for the big boost to total health received from health orbs, as well as the mid-size version of the extractor, so you'll be able to get that health out faster. Deflectors may also be a good investment since the Brawlers' immense fuel tanks mean that even if you aren't boosting very fast, you can boost for days, which could help you out surviving the times you need to move between cover.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.
Yeah, I've been looking around at the internals and they seem to be the real meat-and-potatoes of the customization for the mechs. I'll probably build out the internals as you laid out, but I might tweak it around a bit. Playing last night with the brawler was really like a different game, I found myself playing much more conservatively because of the time that would be lost if I died and had to waddle my fatness all the way back to the front lines. I'll try to mess around with my tuning points a bit more too, reading your guide up there makes it seem like I did absolutely everything wrong with my points.

It seems like they did the F2P thing right in this game. I always have a bit of a squeeze with my in-game cash, but never feel like it's a huge grind. That combined with the "anything that effects game-play is unlockable by playing" makes me think that the team behind this have their head on right. I tossed some money at then last night and bought myself a cool orbiting repair drone. Nothing like having something spiffy to watch while I heal myself back up, a thing that I do depressingly often.

I only wish that you would be allowed to have a little more control over the color tweaks you can make to your mechs. Something closer to how MWO did the paintjobs would be nice, but I can understand why they have the system as it is now. It's hard to shell out some of my cash for a paintjob when I know the body of my mech can change around. I think I'll wait till I ace out a mech before I start tweaking to the cash money body parts and paint jobs.

LiquidFusion
Feb 11, 2004
Ezra < Me < Jake

Hypha posted:

I was under the impression that the abilities of each mech were more concrete in the developers mind, in that the ability component was an important case of identity.

Whelp, I may have either misspoke or communicated poorly. Let me say very clearly, We consider the Mech's ability literally the identity of the mech. This is why we use the ability icon as the mech's icon. Future mech designs, in my opinion, have a more unique approach, and are created with the entire mech in mind.

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

sitchelin posted:

The Berserker is all about dealing as much damage in as little time as possible. They're not built for extended combat. Try dumping your points in Air Dynamics or whatever it's called, it will make it so hovering doesn't make you a free kill. Berserkers are flying death angels. Also, ditch your SMG and get a Vulcan, that's the go-to-gun if you like to get up close and personal. Keep your enemies beneath you. Once you find the sweet spot you'll discover that if you hover over them at the right angle you can shoot them but they can't shoot back. Oh, and getting the Air-Dodge internal is mandatory.

I'd actually disagree with this to an extent. To me, the point of the Berserker is that you can dictate range. If you start trying to get too close then there are other mechs that can tear you to shreds, but the SMG gives you the ability to find a range where they aren't having fun, whether that's in their face or down a hallway. Other than that you're right, though.

Number_6
Jul 23, 2006

BAN ALL GAS GUZZLERS

(except for mine)
Pillbug
I'm a noob at Hawken, and in between periods of getting owned, I'm wondering about how it handles hit registration in a game where all the players obviously have different latencies. When firing at a moving target, is it good enough to aim "directly" (i.e. using only enough lead as necessary to compensate for ballistics), or do you need to aim even further ahead of your target to account for lag? I seem reasonably proficient at hitting targets in the VR training, but online I'm not so sure I'm getting the hits I should.

Also, when I get in a real serious mess (getting pounded by enemy fire), I often seem to lose my dodge L/R ability. Usually this happens not long before I'm about to die anyway. I know dodge has a recharge time, and I know it uses fuel. But even accounting for that, in a real shitstorm, sometimes dodge just isn't there. Is this trying to simulate some kind of stunned effect or system damage?

Horace Kinch
Aug 15, 2007

NovemberMike posted:

I'd actually disagree with this to an extent. To me, the point of the Berserker is that you can dictate range. If you start trying to get too close then there are other mechs that can tear you to shreds, but the SMG gives you the ability to find a range where they aren't having fun, whether that's in their face or down a hallway. Other than that you're right, though.

It's personal preference really. I use the SMG, just not on my 'Zerker, I prefer to play super aggressive. Besides, the Vulcan makes people tweak out, it's still got that psychological effect from earlier in the beta when it was grossly overpowered. It's my panic-cannon and it feeds me delicious kills.

Number_6 posted:

I'm a noob at Hawken, and in between periods of getting owned, I'm wondering about how it handles hit registration in a game where all the players obviously have different latencies. When firing at a moving target, is it good enough to aim "directly" (i.e. using only enough lead as necessary to compensate for ballistics), or do you need to aim even further ahead of your target to account for lag? I seem reasonably proficient at hitting targets in the VR training, but online I'm not so sure I'm getting the hits I should.

Also, when I get in a real serious mess (getting pounded by enemy fire), I often seem to lose my dodge L/R ability. Usually this happens not long before I'm about to die anyway. I know dodge has a recharge time, and I know it uses fuel. But even accounting for that, in a real shitstorm, sometimes dodge just isn't there. Is this trying to simulate some kind of stunned effect or system damage?
I'm pretty sure the bullet-based weapons are hitscan, but I'm not 100% on that. Anything with an obvious rendered projectile (TOW, HEAT, EOC, etc.) you're going to want to lead your shots.

As for the dodge issue, I've never encountered that. Make sure you're not stuck against a wall or something, sometimes I lose my bearings in a fight and find myself trying to dodge into the side of a pillar or my teammate. Also, Shift + S will do an about-face if you need to disengage from a losing fight quickly.

HATECUBE
Mar 2, 2007

Dodge maneuvers have a cooldown that seems a lot longer when you are in shootouts. They also require that you have enough fuel to perform them, which seems like a lot more when you run the tanks dry. I may be hallucinating myself but I think fuel takes longer to regen when you have less or start with none.

Different mechs use resources in different ways. If you have a lot of tuning points to work with, put them into what you think you are missing in combat. People may tell you to dump armor or heatsinks, but they may also be playing differently, develop your own style and see what makes the difference for YOU. Its all free anyway.

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:

Bacon Hat posted:

Dodge maneuvers have a cooldown that seems a lot longer when you are in shootouts. They also require that you have enough fuel to perform them, which seems like a lot more when you run the tanks dry. I may be hallucinating myself but I think fuel takes longer to regen when you have less or start with none.

Different mechs use resources in different ways. If you have a lot of tuning points to work with, put them into what you think you are missing in combat. People may tell you to dump armor or heatsinks, but they may also be playing differently, develop your own style and see what makes the difference for YOU. Its all free anyway.

Plus, you can respec as many times as you want. Nothing is really stopping you from experimenting.

E: I'm starting to get why techs can be disliked within the community. If a tech can latch on to someone who they know can be good without that support, that duo can have a dominating effect upon the game. Suddenly that person who was a toss-up before when you faced them now just chew utterly through you and the rest of your team. Some pubbies have complained that techs are able to mitigate bad positioning and prop up bad players. Ok, I thought, all I gotta do is be a tech myself and attach myself to a good player. There in lies the weakness, in that all the pubbies on my team can't even focus down a scout and the synergy of a added tech to anyone means nothing. Techs do little to turn a bad player into a better player compared to turning a great player into a god and that is incredibly frustrating to play against. Teamwork is totally OP man!

Hypha fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Oct 2, 2013

Pseudophile
Dec 25, 2007



So this is a thing.

mirarant
Dec 18, 2012

Post or die
As a tech player all I can say is gently caress Berserkers. Also does anyone know what the base repair and deconstruction rates are?

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!
Wasn't clear from the OP, what does real money get you in this game?

Pseudophile
Dec 25, 2007

Nevvy Z posted:

Wasn't clear from the OP, what does real money get you in this game?

Cosmetics. Ingame cash boosts, and XP boosts(don't buy these).

You can also buy anything you could buy with ingame cash.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

Nevvy Z posted:

Wasn't clear from the OP, what does real money get you in this game?

Basically I think Adhesive has done a really good job with the IAP in this game. Everything with an actual in game effect is unlockable by just playing the game, you use MC (the purchase-currancy) to buy cosmetic upgrades, get double XP/HC (the in-game currency) for some time, or unlock mechs/weapons early.

The cosmetic options are pretty cool, so I thought I'd post an example here.

This guy right here is the CR-T Recruit, or Fred. You may remember him from the OP.

Looks pretty.... blocky, huh? Definitely nothing pretty there.

If you max out your CRT's mech level, you'll unlock his "elite" skin. I can't comment on the other mechs, but the CRT's elite skin looks a lot better.

This option is totally free. Every mech has an "elite" skin. It took me about 4 hours of play to unlock this, I didn't really use other mechs because the CRT is actually a really solid mech.

And.. since I spent such a long time playing the CRT, I thought I'd deck it out. I bought him a new repair unit, new colored thrusters, new body pieces, and a cool new paintjob. Now my CRT looks like this;


So, there you guys go. You can see the options for cosmetic upgrades. All of that cost me about 1,320 MC, which is about..... $8? The only thing that you should keep in mind is that the options you buy for one mech don't carry to the others, so you could feasible spend quite a lot of money if you want to deck out each of your mechs. I find myself pretty much only using my CRT or the Brawler (thanks saturnine!) as well as occasionally using more specialized mechs like the sharpshooter and the technician. I think I'll deck out my Brawler later, and maybe the scout if I decide to use it.

Game is dope, guys. Jump in!

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
The only problems I have with the elite skins are that they don't show camo and non-CRT elites are just palette swaps ATM.

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.

Improbable Lobster posted:

The only problems I have with the elite skins are that they don't show camo and non-CRT elites are just palette swaps ATM.

Yeah, that is a strange decision on their part. I actually really like the CRT elite body, but since you can't apply any cosmetic changes to it I decided to spring for the full over-haul. I guess that means it's a sound business decision on their part?

The palette swap being elite for everything else is a little lame though. CRT elite is, as you can see from the pictures, a totally different mech. It's pretty cool, and I was kind of expecting something similar for the other mechs.

On a different subject, what are some of the more advanced players tunes for the CRT? I've boosted up my boost speed as well as generator/armor. My thinking was that I want to close as fast as possible and stay mobile while maintaining some survivability. I haven't touched internals yet because, well, funds are tight. Unlocking everything rank-wise for the CRT cost me almost 10k HC, which left me just a little bit extra for my Brawler.

Chard
Aug 24, 2010




Pseudophile posted:



So this is a thing.

:raise: This thing... what is it exactly?

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

USMC_Karl posted:

Yeah, that is a strange decision on their part. I actually really like the CRT elite body, but since you can't apply any cosmetic changes to it I decided to spring for the full over-haul. I guess that means it's a sound business decision on their part?

The palette swap being elite for everything else is a little lame though. CRT elite is, as you can see from the pictures, a totally different mech. It's pretty cool, and I was kind of expecting something similar for the other mechs.



I feel like the palette swap is probably so that they can design more substantial elite skins along the lines of the CRT Elite in the future. I hope.

Pseudophile
Dec 25, 2007

Chard posted:

:raise: This thing... what is it exactly?

Custom crosshair. :)

livingiseasy
Jan 27, 2006
Just jumped in and I'm loving it. Besides the matches sometimes being really really really lopsided (40-4-ish), I really can't complain about anything other than pubbies not wanting to stay in a group. Going to review the OP and see how to play with goons after work tomorrow. This is so much fun!

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:

livingiseasy posted:

Just jumped in and I'm loving it. Besides the matches sometimes being really really really lopsided (40-4-ish), I really can't complain about anything other than pubbies not wanting to stay in a group. Going to review the OP and see how to play with goons after work tomorrow. This is so much fun!

If you do not give a name, we cannot find you.

Saturnine Aberrance
Sep 6, 2010

Creator.

Please make me flesh.


There was an "ask the devs" QA thing recently on the official forums, and the answers to all that will be arriving soon. (It was posted, then immediately pulled due to formatting problems) As soon as it's here, I'll link it since it answers a lot of stuff about what's coming, what the plans are for competitive support, etc.

And here it is: https://community.playhawken.com/topic/28274-communitydeveloper-qa-team-hawken-answers/

Saturnine Aberrance fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Oct 5, 2013

USMC_Karl
Nov 17, 2003

SUPPORTER OF THE REINSTATED LAWFUL HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT. HAOLES GET OFF DA `AINA.
That post is actually really good, and if you play the game I recommend you read it. It sounds like there is a lot of cool stuff on the horizon, and at least a couple cool things are coming this month.

I'm particularly excited to see the upcoming C class mechs and the new maps. Extra cockpit customizations are cool for those of us that dumped some money into the game. Lots of fun stuff!

Horace Kinch
Aug 15, 2007

If I can get some Fuzzy Dice or a Hula Doll in my cockpit I'm getting it the instant it goes live.

Hypha
Sep 13, 2008

:commissar:
I want a Fred Bobblehead.

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Delacroix
Dec 7, 2010

:munch:
I've just started playing this game, it's pretty neat when you have a decent matchup. It has a little of depth to it with tuning but I've only unlocked a few points so far. Having to buy mech ranks quickly depletes your credits and weapons are expensive enough that I appreciate the tech for how it churns out MVPs. I can see where your money can go when internals and equipment are per mech unless you grind out a mech to max.

I just wish the pilot level icons in debrief or killscreens actually tell what rank they are. It's utterly useless if you need to leave a server to look up their icon on the pilot chart and determine they were 15 levels above you. The game tells if you you're joining a server way above your rank but not if some jackass joins the server and ruins a match full of low levels.

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