|
Prism posted:Warmonger penalty for conquering a city is now halved with other civs that are also at war with the civ being conquered. So loving stupid and aggravating. There should be no warmonger penalty in this case. Prism posted:Make the building up of warmonger threats more exponential than linear (Minor - Major - Severe - Critical) Am I reading this wrong or did they just dramatically increase how fast you get warmonger hate?
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 13:07 |
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Am I reading this wrong or did they just dramatically increase how fast you get warmonger hate? Sounds like it takes much more warmongering to get to Severe/Critical to me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Am I reading this wrong or did they just dramatically increase how fast you get warmonger hate? Decrease, I think; it may still be fast to get the first levels but it takes exponentially more 'warmonger points' to get to the later ones.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:42
|
|
|
Changes to Japan and Germany, but US UA remains the same? Huh, I thought they would change that. Japan's new stuff looks pretty cool. I don't know about turning my samurai into boats, though. Oh wow, God-king also provides +1 faith too. TalonDemonKing fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
TalonDemonKing posted:Changes to Japan and Germany, but US UA remains the same? It was later clarified in a post that samurai do not get consumed to create a fishing tile. They just produce them. I still think putting it on samurai of all things is kind of odd, but I guess what else are you going to put it on?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:55
|
|
|
They're probably just going and finding some peasants to build it for them and then loving off to write poetry and duel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:56
|
|
|
Not certain I'm okay with God-King specifically - That strikes me as a 'great all round' choice that doesn't scale, and might end up being the defact choice for a Tall empire. I suppose the trade-off is exactly that it will never scale, but that's still a little poor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:58
|
|
|
Guess Germany loses the Panzer in favor of the new bank, which is fine since I don't think I've ever used a Panzer in any game ever. Wish they had just made the conversion rate on the UA 100 percent but I guess that would be a little strong. Meanwhile some tenets that needed love got it, and some that needed to be toned down also got what they deserved. Super excited to play around with the new pantheons, especially god-king. Seems super strong early game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 15:59
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Not certain I'm okay with God-King specifically - That strikes me as a 'great all round' choice that doesn't scale, and might end up being the defact choice for a Tall empire. I suppose the trade-off is exactly that it will never scale, but that's still a little poor. It seems fine to me. You can only ever get 1 of everything out of it, no more, no less. Meanwhile if you take one of the "Get culture/faith from a resource" ones the amount is theoretically unlimited (it's of course limited by cities you build and population but there isn't a hard cap). 1 of each thing just doesnt seem worth it and it's more of a situation where your land just sucks and someone else took the Pantheon Belief you needed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:07
|
|
|
Kooriken posted:Guess Germany loses the Panzer in favor of the new bank, which is fine since I don't think I've ever used a Panzer in any game ever. Wish they had just made the conversion rate on the UA 100 percent but I guess that would be a little strong. Meanwhile some tenets that needed love got it, and some that needed to be toned down also got what they deserved. Landsknechts are out, not Panzers (there's now a Commerce policy that lets you buy Landsknechts.) Shockeh posted:Not certain I'm okay with God-King specifically - That strikes me as a 'great all round' choice that doesn't scale, and might end up being the defact choice for a Tall empire. I suppose the trade-off is exactly that it will never scale, but that's still a little poor. There are plenty of pantheons that will blow God-King out of the water for a 3-4 city tall empire and potentially even for an OCC game. 6 pastures or 6 plantations or 3 stone/marble or 3 gold/silver or 6 iron/copper will give you more total plusses, and those are all very achievable with 3-4 good cities. God-King is a fallback option; it ensures that there is something good for a tall empire even if you don't have any relevant resource-based pantheons (or you miss the one you wanted.) For that matter, I'm not even sure it dethrones Fertility Rites' +10% growth as the fallback for tall. It's Sun God that I'm watching out for: it's a little situational but holy loving poo poo that's obscenely powerful. It's like Goddess of the Hunt except it applies to resource tiles that are more common and more appealing to begin with. EDIT: Also haha they gave a buff to Japan (!!!) and not America  Although I'm wondering wtf is up with the description of the Hanse, as written it's ludicrously powerful. Maybe they meant +5% production instead of +5? Either way it's loving crazy.
the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:08
|
|
|
I'm just hoping I can get to the bottom of why Multiplayer AI seems to still be trapped in passive mode.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:08
|
|
|
God-king sounds really cool though. Sun-king is kinda lacks that divine feel, you know?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:09
|
|
|
Gabriel Pope posted:It's Sun God that I'm watching out for: it's a little situational but holy loving poo poo that's obscenely powerful. It's like Goddess of the Hunt except it applies to resource tiles that are more common and more appealing to begin with. Yeah, both Sun God and Earth Mother sound absolutely unreal. Earth Mother would be completely ridiculous for some of those starts that are like 5-6 Salt.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Not certain I'm okay with God-King specifically - That strikes me as a 'great all round' choice that doesn't scale, and might end up being the defact choice for a Tall empire. I suppose the trade-off is exactly that it will never scale, but that's still a little poor. Yeah it really does seem like the worst of the pantheon beliefs they introduced in the expansion. That sun pantheon sounds insane if there's no resources nearby to earn faith from. It's like having a double granary with citrus instead of deer. Faith from salt mines also sounds fantastic considering salt was already the best luxury tile.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
At this point you kind of wonder why they bothered putting America in the game. It's easily the worst civ in the game--not even in a "well, someone has to be the worst" sense but in a "wow, this civ is horrible" sense--and Firaxis isn't interested in doing anything about it. Eh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
Since these are beta notes does that imply that they aren't the final draft and subject to change? I'd be surprised if they went another patch without doing anything for America since I could've sworn they explicitly mentioned them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:18
|
|
|
quote:Deal AI: Never ask for something from the human that we don't consider having any value (such as Open Borders from a distant civ). Finally, less pestering! quote:Deal AI: Make it so the AI will never pay more than about 15 gold-per-turn. There were cases before of 40+ gold-per-turn. Is that in total or could you just cheese it with multiple deals.... quote:Fix a legacy bug that prevented the AI from ever putting together offers for a luxury that a human player now has available for trade. I think someone was complaining about this just hours ago. A well-timed fix. quote:Deal AI: AI properly values Gold in hand over GPT, so over 30 turns it won't get 150 for 5GPT. Instead only 85% of that. Finally, the AI understands TVM!
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:20
|
|
|
But God-King has the best name of them all.  Maybe make it increase its bonus after each capital captured? In a "I'm stripping down all those worthless not-living-gods palaces and adding their stuff to my own" sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:23
|
|
|
The free scientist and great engineer for Spaceflight Pioneers seems like a significant improvement for anyone rushing Space, but not a big impact on balance. I'm concerned that the AI may be harder to persuade into resesarch agreements now if they charge higher interest on the loans I offer to give them enough cash for the agreement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:37
|
|
|
TalonDemonKing posted:Changes to Japan and Germany, but US UA remains the same? Cannot wait to harvest the gamers.txt whining on other forums about the US UA being unchanged. Generally on the patch: It really does seem weird that Samurai's can now make fishing boats. I wonder how often that'll actually be useful, how often would you send your tech limited UU out into the sea to improve sea resources. Would you not have improved by the time you'd have built a samurai? I like how tourism has a more of an effect on stuff like science from trade routes, or easier conquering. Means it can feature better into other victory types. Has anyone checked to see what the bonuses of Arsenal of Democracy are now that they've been weakened?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:38
|
|
|
I'm guessing the new samurai ability will at least be good to get to those pesky whales or fish surrounded by ice. Or to rebuild previously razed boats in your newly acquired puppets. I hope there's an achievement for building an offshore platform with one of them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:50
|
|
|
Geight posted:Since these are beta notes does that imply that they aren't the final draft and subject to change? I'd be surprised if they went another patch without doing anything for America since I could've sworn they explicitly mentioned them. Firaxis posted:1. We are using this as an opportunity to correct bugs with the game. Because we are close to release, new features or additions cannot be considered. Also it looks like the Hanse is +5% production per city-state trade route across your civilization. Which means that late-game Germany can have +30% to +50% production in all its cities (at the cost of missing out on other trade routes including internal food/production caravans, but still. drat.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:50
|
|
|
Know what I'd quite like as a Samurai Unique Ability? 'Occupy' - Any Tile with a Fortified Samurai on it can be worked by the nearest Japanese City. I suppose the problem would be using Samurai to just cap 'loose' Luxuries all over the map, but something of that ilk would be kinda cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 16:53
|
|
|
Really cool that tourism will have so many cool passive effects now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 17:40
|
|
|
The Human Crouton posted:Really cool that tourism will have so many cool passive effects now. It's a good thing that diplomacy victory is harder to achieve, because having 1-turn diplomat integration is huge. Being able to zip around a spy to snatch up votes is going to be super nice for cultural empires.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 17:44
|
|
|
Firaxis posted:Tenet: Weaken both bonuses from Arsenal of Democracy This was a long time coming. I only ever played Freedom because this Tenet was so loving powerful, with it you could churn out 25 influence per turn from any city that churned out enough production for a rifleman. Does anyone know what the influence bonus is now for gifting units? Or the military production hit?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Know what I'd quite like as a Samurai Unique Ability? 'Occupy' - Any Tile with a Fortified Samurai on it can be worked by the nearest Japanese City. I suppose the problem would be using Samurai to just cap 'loose' Luxuries all over the map, but something of that ilk would be kinda cool. By then you'd probably have everything mined. The only use I could see is getting bananas without cutting out the jungle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
Excited about the multiplayer changes. Hopefully things will run smoother.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:11
|
|
|
Little disappointed that the three biggest Social Policy problems aren't fixed. 1. Consulates is too good. Total up how much you get from being friendly with every city-state on the planet. That costs TWO policies. 2. Tradition is too good. Combined with the National College, Tradition is a no-brainer at higher difficulty levels. 3. Rationalism is too good. Science is king in anything beyond a quick rush attack game, so Rationalism becomes a no-brainer choice. All of these are completely untouched in this patch.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:19
|
|
|
I restarted rome again last night and was AMAZED at how much of a difference, getting a good position at the start makes. This rome does things about twice as fast as the last rome I built. I have almost every wonder so far on king. I moved my starting settler up one position to be on a hill and a river, instead of on a river but not on a hill. I also love the idea of archers at the start. Building a couple of archers made such a big difference with barbarians and allowed me to settle better. The archers saved me about 20 turns, at least! redreader fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:50
|
|
|
The patch changes look really interesting. I'll have to give them a shot and see how they do.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
Really loving the new Hanse building, it's definitely different from what I expected but still a great inward-looking boost to commerce and production. Plus, Japan's culture boost means a lot with the bonuses to Tourism. EDIT: And drat is lategame mongering getting a boost. Tourism dominance means you don't lose any pop in conquered cities at all, and even a 50% reduction is huge. Triskelli fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 19:02
|
|
|
Triskelli posted:Really loving the new Hanse building, it's definitely different from what I expected but still a great inward-looking boost to commerce and production. Plus, Japan's culture boost means a lot with the bonuses to Tourism. Is the hense a 5% bonus or a +5 bonus to production? I imagine it would be ok to have higher production at the cost of a lot of gpt either way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 19:24
|
|
|
GeckoMissingo posted:Is the hense a 5% bonus or a +5 bonus to production? I imagine it would be ok to have higher production at the cost of a lot of gpt either way. It's a +5% bonus for every trade route with a city state civ-wide, not just in cities the trade route is connected to, as well as the standard Bank bonus. This means a whopping 45% bonus in every city if you use all nine trade routes to trade with city states and build a Hanse in every city. It does make me wish city states could start trade routes too though. Triskelli fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 1, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 19:32
|
|
|
GeckoMissingo posted:Is the hense a 5% bonus or a +5 bonus to production? I imagine it would be ok to have higher production at the cost of a lot of gpt either way. It's a 5% bonus, but it's per trade route and empire wide.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
As long as Samurai replace Longswordsmen they're still pretty much useless. The only time I every actually use Longswordsmen is for one turn while upgrading my Swordsmen to Musketmen. Also I might be alone but I really enjoyed the Landsknecht more than the Panzer. It fit well with Germany's zerg rush theme and Panzers are in such an avoidable place in the tech tree.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 20:06
|
|
|
Well, now it might be worth it to build one or two samurai for more convenient workboating. Which is about one or two more than what was worth it before.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 20:09
|
|
|
Fix a legacy bug that prevented the AI from ever putting together offers for a luxury that a human player now has available for trade. I hope that means the issue I was griping about a page or two ago with the AI never offering the player luxury trades is gone. Also, there are some pretty big glaring omissions. Tradition is still too strong, Piety still too weak, Rationalism still too strong, and they've done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address the tall vs wide imbalance. This could be addressed at least in part just by better balancing tradition vs liberty (maybe finishing liberty should remove or reduce the science penalty?) Alkydere posted:It's a 5% bonus, but it's per trade route and empire wide. I read that as only the cities with Hanses (Hansen?) receive the production bonuses. The bonus is calculated from the total number of trade routes with city states in your entire empire.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 20:14
|
|
|
Hmmm, voting to embargo city states just got hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 13:07 |
|
|
I really wish they'd take the time to write Civ-specific dialogues for becoming influential with them, like when you wipe them out or when they've decided to group up and declare war on you just because you went and conquered half the planet. They spent all this time on the new culture mechanic and the stupid pop music and blue jeans thing just feels so unsatisfying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2013 20:25
|
|
