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If you crash the car tomorrow, what happens to all the money you paid up front? Do you get it back? How does that protect you from risk? Edit: A friend of mine got arrested for possessing a bunch of pain pills and had his car impounded. He maxed out his credit cards to bail himself out. He figured lawyers and whatnot would cost some money, so before his credit report could get dinged, he got two more credit cards and maxed them out immediately with cash advances. He didn't have current registration or a title because he had moved from out of state 5 years ago and never did his paperwork. When I picked him up from jail (80 miles out of town), he didn't have $100 to his name. It worked out OK in the end because he got adjudication of guilt withheld pending probation and then got a rich MILF girlfriend to pay his $20,000 worth of debts and to buy him a new motorcycle. MrKatharsis fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 2, 2013 |
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Oct 2, 2013 04:44
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MrKatharsis posted:If you crash the car tomorrow, what happens to all the money you paid up front? Do you get it back? How does that protect you from risk? Why wouldn't you have insurance? Hell, I bet just like a car loan where the car is the security on the loan, they won't give you the keys without proof of insurance.
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Oct 2, 2013 05:29
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That is correct. It's insured, and I'll be out just as much as if I'd bought it if it's totaled. The risk I'm protected from is excessive depreciation. Should the vehicle depreciate more than predicted, and is worth less than the residual at the end of my lease, I get to cut my losses - if the residual is $10k, but the car is only worth $8k, then that's $2k of depreciation I didn't have to pay for, and I come out ahead. If it's worth $12k, then I can still buy it for $10k, and I'm no worse off than buying it to start with.
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Oct 2, 2013 05:43
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Here's my stupid financial decisions and how it lead me to be much better with it. I'm terrible at brevity, so sorry for the length. I chased a dream of being a commercial pilot for pretty much my whole life. I first took lessons when 15 through a High School program. Being from a not very financially well family and ignorant about that stuff myself I figured it would be too expensive to continue. Military service wasn't an option. When 21, clueless about careers, and starting general education credits at community college, a family friend who was our dentist and also a pilot encouraged me to pursue it again (I think my mom mentioned it to him). I began saving and got around $4.5k together and a few years later entered a University program. I burned through that money fast and paying for it paycheck to paycheck was super slow. I took out a $5k student loan to just get it done and pretty much used it all up. I also bought a car for $4.5k. My employment allowed me to work as much as I wanted with plenty of overtime so upon finishing my Private License I planned to spend the Summer paying down those debts. One month later we were all laid off and I was freshly unemployed. I used some lay off benefits to go back to full time school in a technical program. I lived off my benefits for a year, had 4 of the 6 quarters paid for and worked barely getting by the next year. I had to pay some tuition on my credit card, and paid a few other expenses with them when I couldn't meet my monthly budget. I paid off the car shortly after I graduated. In my mid to late 20's now I wasn't too excited to work in the technical field I just studied as it only reinforced my desire to fly. I was working two part time jobs, one loading planes for FedEx and doing home construction. Doing so in the North West Winter, living in my sister's basement, and still barely making it by paycheck to paycheck wasn't the best position to be in to make a huge life altering decision. But I did so anyways. I heard about a fast paced pilot program near where a friend lived. I contacted them and they seemed to have a great program, my 'research' online showed positive feedback and they managed to help me get the loans needed though I had to co-sign with my parents. It all made sense at the time, though, to not be a risk but more up to my effort level which was huge at the time. I went there site unseen bringing my two loans for $65k which I thought was to pay for my flight training, University classes and living expenses. The program would be less than a year then I'd be working for them as an instructor while finishing University and in a year or so be on my way as a commercial pilot. Right.... They required that full amount paid upfront and I, in my naievity and eagerness to "live the dream" signed it all over. The whole story is even longer and it obviously went sour quite fast. I mentioned all that above to show the state of mind when taking such a risk. The school was in horrible condition, flat out lied about how their program actually was working and in the end they went bankrupt shortly after I quit when painted in a terrible corner. I got a good chunk of flight training done, but was at a point where it was still worthless unless spending even more to finish. Through much struggle I only managed to qualify for a small portion of what wasn't refunded to me back. I'm still trying to get it. I spent my 30th birthday unemployed, living in my parent's basement, and $80k of total debt that was mostly for worthless training. It became quite apparent that that career path was no longer feasible and I've not flown since. I have since gotten a much better paying job with a great company thanks to my technical 2 year degree that cost me a few thousand. I studied like crazy how to properly manage finances and now in my 30s finally understand stuff I wish I'd done in my early 20s. I've paid off all my credit card debt and 1 of the 3 student loans. With the current financial plan I'm on I'll have another ($20k) paid off in a year or so. I only wish I knew how to properly talk to people for advice when younger as my family wasn't really a source for it. So, I'm glad to hear the advice given and taken here hoping it'll save someone some grief. I've tried and tried to get my parent's and siblings to listen to budgeting and even made custom super easy to use spreadsheets but don't ever get any follow-through from them. For like the 4th time in the past few years I've reenlightened my dad about credit card stuff when he mentioned paying a few thousand for something that came up. He then admitted how many cards they have that are nearly maxed. He's on SS disability from forced early retirement due to health with no retirement savings at all, my mom works as a teacher still while in her mid 60s. She just changed to part time due to her health effectively cutting their income in half. They're still paying student loans from her own schooling over the years and have hardly made headway on their mortgage for the past 18 years due to bad refinancing/equity decisions. I sat with my dad to explain again setting up a budget. I again detailed paying off his credit cards through a snow-ball type method where he said "oh yea, I forgot about that. I just add a few extra dollars to each cc payment hoping it'll help". We also got rid of cable/internet they were paying $180 a month for ($50 internet, got them a Roku and I pay for netflix/hulu, and got a HD antenna). Then there's my unfortunate sister who's husband has been seriously frivolous about money stuff. Sadly he never had to worry about it growing up as his mom just always gave what they needed. So that mentality has continued leading them to be stuck in a pretty difficult situation. I won't go in to that story now, and there has been some awesome things that happened to help, but I'll give one brief example. I don't remember what type of loan, but they went to pay the last few payments off in a lump some and close their accounts with Bank of America to switch to a local credit union. BoA said they had no record of there being any remaining payments, or something like that and said none was needed. They just took that at face value and never thought back to it after closing it all out. A few years later after buying a home and barely making it month to month they get a call saying their mortgage check bounced. They then discovered their entire credit union checking and meager savings was empty just as all their payments for the month were sent out. There still was a balance on that BoA loan that had gone unpaid the entire time then passed to collections or something like that to the point where they pulled all their money to pay what had accumulated. I'm fuzzy on the details now, but that's the basics of it. The saddest thing is her husband's most common answer for stuff being "oh well" or "who cares" and things like this happens over and over.
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Oct 2, 2013 11:47
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AzureSkys posted:I'm fuzzy on the details now, but that's the basics of it. The saddest thing is her husband's most common answer for stuff being "oh well" or "who cares" and things like this happens over and over. Good read, sucks that you got sucked into one of those "online degree" places (which isn't what it was, but the same type of deal - way overpriced crap). Good that you're making progress now, though. In response to what I quoted above, my friend used to paint cars at an auto body shop. He didn't make much money, neither did any of the other people so they were pretty awful with money. My friend was telling me how some of the younger people he worked with would go to the rent to own places and get big tvs, game consoles, furniture, etc and then when they shockingly couldn't make their weekly payments, it got repo'd. Their response was "Yea well that's just the way it is, sometimes your stuff just gets repo'd, can't do anything about it".
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Oct 2, 2013 13:11
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Harry posted:He somewhat has a point if you're on track for a $200,000+ year job before you're 30. This obviously applies to very few people. I'm 3/4th of the way through exactly this phase of life. I wish I had saved enough that when my divorce hit and I spent an extra $35,000 I didn't have to go into debt. That said the general idea of "if saving hurts your commitment to study and self improvement then gently caress saving" is pretty spot on.
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Oct 2, 2013 14:30
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AzureSkys posted:
If it makes you feel any better, I know a pilot who works for a small airline, and he makes $30k a year. Being a pilot doesn't guarantee good wages. He loves it because he gets to travel a lot, but it's not necessarily the path to riches.
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Oct 2, 2013 16:32
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tiananman posted:If it makes you feel any better, I know a pilot who works for a small airline, and he makes $30k a year. Being a pilot doesn't guarantee good wages. He loves it because he gets to travel a lot, but it's not necessarily the path to riches. The air industry is a huge heartbreaker for a lot of people. A friend of a friend gave up a promising career and spent untold thousands to become an helicopter pilot... Then realized he'd basically have to work for free for a few years to get his hours in. Went back to his previous career, with debts and a useless license. 
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Oct 2, 2013 16:37
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FrozenVent posted:The air industry is a huge heartbreaker for a lot of people. A friend of a friend gave up a promising career and spent untold thousands to become an helicopter pilot... Then realized he'd basically have to work for free for a few years to get his hours in. Went back to his previous career, with debts and a useless license. So I need to start drinking with pilots instead of other lawyers? The complaints are the same but the company sounds better.
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Oct 2, 2013 16:47
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FrozenVent posted:The air industry is a huge heartbreaker for a lot of people.
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Oct 2, 2013 17:03
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tiananman posted:If it makes you feel any better, I know a pilot who works for a small airline, and he makes $30k a year. Being a pilot doesn't guarantee good wages. He loves it because he gets to travel a lot, but it's not necessarily the path to riches. Wasn't that crash in NY a few years ago, wasn't the pilot talking about how she only made like 20k a year? I think that if flying is your passion, it should probably stay as a hobby.
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Oct 2, 2013 19:09
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Yeah, that New York crash was basically that. I'd been in the airline industry since the age of 21 so I was well aware of the wage issues and lifestyle. But since it was a huge passion I'd carried since being a toddler staring out the window at anything in the sky I was happy pursing it and would have managed OK if things went as planned. Then I was put in a situation where I had essentially paid for an education/training that I was only half way through. At the time the industry was taking an even worse turn and it was super apparent that no matter how passionate I was to work as a pilot it really wasn't feasible anymore. I'd be paying twice for a less than $20k job for many years. One where I'd never have stability or a liveable wage which at one point I could have managed but no longer could. After returning home I was offered a job at a really reputable flight school (which I wish I'd found prior...) to work as a mechanic in trade for flight time. I nearly started but had a huge gut feeling that I needed to step away. It was major heartbreak and took a long time to finally get past, but I knew it wasn't right for me anymore. Sadly I could not find or afford adequate legal help and wasn't in the best state of mind to better pursue restitution from the school. That's what kills me about people not caring about their financial situation. It was a huge wake up call to me to pay better attention to reality and came at a large cost. If I didn't have my loans to pay for I could afford a small plane. In a few years I may look into it again, but for now I've kept dabbling in flight sim stuff to satisfy the hobby and still work in the aviation industry. I actually knew a lot of law school students when I was in tech school. They're working good jobs now. I only know 1 successful pilot since that time.
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Oct 3, 2013 08:19
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Couldn't you have bought your own plane for $65,000 and flown it as much as you wanted Edit: not suggesting that buying a private plane is a smart way to spend your money...
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Oct 3, 2013 08:25
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There's basic trainer-type planes for less than $20k and a lot of options out there to get the training done. I was a newly licensed mechanic which would save cost on some maintenance requirements, too. There's multiple licenses, aircraft types and ratings required, though, as well as a 4 year degree to work as an airline pilot. What I understood was that money was to pay for all of that as well as secure me a job as an instructor with them. Instead of flying 1 or 2 times a week like I did for my private license, it would be 5 or 6 times a week with all those aircraft types available and the same environment to then instruct in. What was nice for me was too have it all in one package to dedicate a few years to. I'd been trying to be frugal about it before hand but ended up taking years to get my private license done when it should have taken maybe 6 months or so. That made it easy to rope me in and convince myself to hand over the checks. I do better in structured programs rather than on my own, which I guess is an aspect I liked about flying with the checklists, procedures and what not. They were really good at selling exactly what I wanted and making it appear real, which always gets me now with the whole "too good to be true" monicker. So, being blunt to people bringing up stuff that is too good to be true is highly appropriate. Hopefully they'll listen and see they're being dumb.
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Oct 3, 2013 09:19
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Try not to offer options for him to keep going, he's well aware they exist. It is really hard to walk away form something that you put that much effort in to, even if you know you should. Enjoyable (pilot), status oriented (lawyer), fulfilling (social worker) careers almost always pay worse than their dirty (plumber), boring (engineer), non-fulfilling (corporate) counterparts. Some careers that are unusually high in their respective status categories also impose significant barriers to entry, little occupational freedom, and/or high hours in addition to crap pay. I eventually decided that I'd rather take the cash and find my fulfillment outside of my job. I'm just glad that I had another option. The decision was recent enough that I still have to keep convincing myself that it was the right call. And I keep hedging my bets by preparing for the patent bar exam. At least this time I'm only spending effort instead of effort and money. If I do try to go into law practice at some point, it will be when I'm either financially independent or at least have a several year's worth pile of F-U money. So I guess I still haven't fully given up on it.
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Oct 3, 2013 13:23
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As someone who is about to put up a whole lot of money for their flight training (albeit with a conditional job offer at the end of it) I really hope I'm not back here in 2 years time immensely regretting my decision. Aviation can be an extremely volatile business and I know all too well how many people there are with enormous debts that they are struggling to pay off, especially with how low the wages are getting for new hires and low-houred pilots.
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Oct 3, 2013 13:40
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Couldn't you have bought your own plane for $65,000 and flown it as much as you wanted Not without a license unless you want to land in a federal pound-me-in-the-rear end prison.
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Oct 3, 2013 13:47
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Nail Rat posted:Not without a license unless you want to land in a federal pound-me-in-the-rear end prison. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he already had a private license at that point. Another goon whose hopes of being a commercial helicopter pilot were dashed on financial realities checking in.
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Oct 3, 2013 13:52
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big cheese posted:As someone who is about to put up a whole lot of money for their flight training (albeit with a conditional job offer at the end of it) I really hope I'm not back here in 2 years time immensely regretting my decision. Aviation can be an extremely volatile business and I know all too well how many people there are with enormous debts that they are struggling to pay off, especially with how low the wages are getting for new hires and low-houred pilots. There's a lot of things to say but mostly, make sure you are in full control of your money and are paying for exactly what you are getting. So like, if you're paying for block time rental then make sure the plane and instructor will be available that entire time. Scrutinize contracts at great depth with expert help if possible. There were a lot of red flags I was blind to that showed my handing it all over was stupid. I didn't become privy to that until too late. If in the right circumstances it's a hard road, but anything worthwhile is. My situation took me out of that circumstance to another that was no longer realistic to stay on. Best wishes!
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Oct 3, 2013 14:05
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A couple of weeks ago I heard about this great ridiculous wedding a coworker went to. The bride and groom are an education student and systems admin respectively. The wedding was to take three days and included a bunch of stuff like a faux beach massage room. They were unable to rent the reclining chairs they wanted, so the groom bought 6 2,000 euro chairs from a high-end furniture store. I guess they have lots of furniture for their 500 square foot apartment now. Anyway, after a couple months of this type of planning, the costs of the wedding had ballooned into around 50,000 euros. And the guests had to pay for their own accommodations. Oh and they had to bring their own wedding cakes. The 50 grand wedding had potluck 3-day-old cakes for the reception.
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Oct 5, 2013 11:52
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Troubadour posted:The 50 grand wedding had potluck 3-day-old cakes for the reception. *insert failure theme from The Price is Right* Seriously, what train of thought leads one to "potluck wedding cake" as a good idea? Which party suggested that?
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Oct 7, 2013 18:34
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I dunno. After reading the rest of that post, I think the potluck may have been the best decision they made. Of course, there's still a lot of distance between that and a good decision.
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Oct 8, 2013 13:35
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Dik Hz posted:I'd argue that his arguments don't apply to even people like you describe. This thread is rife with stories of people who earn more than that and are financial train wrecks. It doesn't matter how much you make if you spend more than you make. Agreed. He even said this in one of his posts: "If you manage to get a proper career you are going to laugh at how stupid and useless your efforts in saving money at 21 were." From what I understand, the earlier the better. This guy definitely has to have some kind of trust fund if he thinks saving your money is "stupid and useless".
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Oct 9, 2013 00:29
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I make six figures at 28 and I think that guy is full of poo poo. I took out exorbitant amounts of student loans, maxed out credit cards, etc. and all of those actions were regrettable. The total amount of my fiscal irresponsibility from 18-23 adds up to about $100,000. That is enough to buy a nice used BMW 7 series (if you're into that kind of thing) and a down payment on a house. The best part of all is that I have nothing to show for that irresponsibility. It would be way different if I had a nice car or a huge entertainment center. Good saving habits at 21 is likely going to translate to good saving habits at 31, 41, etc. Most people aren't going to touch $200,000 in general but let's say you do make that money. With those saving habits long since established (ie, not as likely to impulsively buy some expensive poo poo), you can put yourself in a great position without having to live a cheap lifestyle. I think that guy is not so stealth bragging about the money he is making at a young age more than he is handing out financial advice.
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Oct 9, 2013 13:07
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Another one from around the internet! Lifehacker: How much of my pay should I save? User icbog doesn't like the idea of saving his money: quote:There aren't words for how sick I am of rich people telling poor people how to manage their money. It's like a nuke telling a BB gun to do more damage. Mmm yes, you're poor and deserve this car! Also the car is literally the only way that you can be happy, just like the commercials say! Next, Gonzo Fanatic has a better idea than a hole in your back yard: quote:Yeah, so saving is great - it's really important. But WHERE do you save? Into what do you put your money so the Wall Street cowboys don't get their hands on it and gamble it away in virtual financial products. (You know, that trash that caused the financial meltdown? Well, that's pretty much caused EVERY financial meltdown?)
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Oct 11, 2013 13:16
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tuyop posted:Another one from around the internet! Lifehacker: How much of my pay should I save? I love to gently caress so every cent made will go into hookers, tomorrow my bank account will be bursting money!
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Oct 11, 2013 16:09
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There's a dude who blogs about being an early retiree - Mr. Money Moustache or something - he advocates saving at a 50% rate (30% at a minimum). I don't think that's unattainable or anything, but it really will depend on your area/income/overall expenses.
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Oct 11, 2013 18:36
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Shadowhand00 posted:There's a dude who blogs about being an early retiree - Mr. Money Moustache or something - he advocates saving at a 50% rate (30% at a minimum). I don't think that's unattainable or anything, but it really will depend on your area/income/overall expenses. But at the same time it's not much fun to live on less than $25k a year no matter how much you're bringing in.
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Oct 11, 2013 19:19
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tuyop posted:User icbog doesn't like the idea of saving his money: You hit it on the head here, I'm sick of people like this complaining that they've been shafted and there's no more upward mobility in this country when in fact they just don't want to make the changes and necessary sacrifices to get ahead. Step 1: Slash spending - this can be as simple as not going out to eat or getting drinks at the bars anymore. Step 2: Obtain a marketable skill that demands a decent salary. Sorry this probably means getting a STEM degree, but remember no one owes you poo poo in this world. Step 3: KEEP learning throughout your entire life - NEVER become obsolete. Step 4: Live below your means especially when you start making more money (No you don't deserve that luxury car). Step 5: Budget your money to invest at least 20% of it to max out your 401k, then max out your Roth IRA, then put the rest in an index fund. Step 6: You will retire with money. However, if by the time your retirement comes and the markets have crashed so badly that you've lost all your retirement savings - Don't worry about it because there will be total anarchy and the world will be ending soon anyway. PRO TIP: If you really come from nothing and want to build wealth the best/fastest way to do that is to start your own (successful)business or businesses. I'll add a story so I don't get banned for my nevertheless insightful post: Friend of a friend lived out in Cali and worked for an old school printing company. He'd been working for the company since the late 80's and this was before digital printing was starting to come up, so his skills were in demand back then. So 15 years later (around 2005) digital printing had completely taken over, and instead of going back to school to learn how to use a computer or use photoshop, this guy gets a jumbo mortgage near the height of the housing bubble. Well he loses his job the same year he gets the mortgage because, well, no one needs manual printers anymore - everything is done with photoshop and indesign. So when the market crashes in 2007-2008 what does he do? Cashes out his entire 401k to make payments on the house that he's already under water on. Needless to say the 401K money is gone completely and the house was foreclosed on anyway. So now he's completely unemployed and hasn't even tried to look for a job in 7 years. He lives with his sister and brother in law and is just a miserable, hopeless, negative person who thinks that the "Man" is holding him down. You can't convince him to try to get a job, any job, because the work is beneath him. And going back to school or learning photoshop is just out of the question. Nothing is his fault though, it was all wallstreet and the capialists who took his career, his house, and his dignity - not his increasingly poor financial & life decisions. Lightning Zwei fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 19:22
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Shadowhand00 posted:There's a dude who blogs about being an early retiree - Mr. Money Moustache or something - he advocates saving at a 50% rate (30% at a minimum). I don't think that's unattainable or anything, but it really will depend on your area/income/overall expenses.
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Oct 11, 2013 21:28
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No Wave posted:It depends on how much you make. If you're making 80k+ and are single it's so easy to save half your money (even in a major city) that you should really approach it from the perspective of why not to save that much. There's a legitimate answer for why it may not be a good idea to save that much. Think about the lesson of A Christmas Carol. Now, while this book specifically alludes to giving and charity, there is more to spending money than this. Essentially, if you spend too much saving, you miss out on many experiences in life that are important to growing. In turn, growing as a person actually leads you to both be happier, and potentially even helps more with financial success. In reality, the amount that one should spend/save is something that needs to be balanced. However, most people tend toward saving too little, rather than the opposite. ntan1 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 21:36
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Cicero posted:Yeah, it really depends on your situation. His primary reader demographic is white-collar professionals, for whom this is easily doable if you're willing to be moderately frugal and don't have kids (MMM has a kid now, but didn't when he and his wife were working and saving). To be fair, his current budget (with the kid) is $27,000, which is roughly 50% of the current US median household income. That's a pretty all inclusive demographic.
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Oct 11, 2013 22:30
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:To be fair, his current budget (with the kid) is $27,000, which is roughly 50% of the current US median household income. That's a pretty all inclusive demographic. Has he made a post recently about healthcare costs? I've been seeing a lot of people talking about their invidiual coverage tripling the past few weeks even with a $10,000 deductible. Harry fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 11, 2013 |
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Oct 11, 2013 22:34
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ntan1 posted:There's a legitimate answer for why it may not be a good idea to save that much. Think about the lesson of A Christmas Carol. Now, while this book specifically alludes to giving and charity, there is more to spending money than this. Essentially, if you spend too much saving, you miss out on many experiences in life that are important to growing. In turn, growing as a person actually leads you to both be happier, and potentially even helps more with financial success.
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Oct 12, 2013 00:23
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Harry posted:Has he made a post recently about healthcare costs? I've been seeing a lot of people talking about their invidiual coverage tripling the past few weeks even with a $10,000 deductible. That's like 10% of his expenses, I guess? Here's the healthcare post. The whole >50% savings rate thing really isn't limited to 80k/year professionals. Most kinds of tradespeople earn well over 50k after their apprenticeship, and have a huge head start on professionals. I think that the group of people who really can't save beyond the 10% minimum is limited to the unemployed or disabled, those with a criminal record, and people with only a secondary education or less. Even then, that is not a homogenous group.
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Oct 12, 2013 00:25
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No Wave posted:If you can really justify a purchase, whatever. But approaching your income like you should be spending 80% of it is totally arbitrary and leads to "feature creep" such as buying more car than you need, renting more house than you need, arbitrarily not buying things on sale, spending $60 per month on puzzles and dragons, feeling the need to upgrade your vacations to match your "disposable" income. Note that disposable income is always a misnomer - it's loving MONEY - unless it no longer brings value, which only makes any sense if you're already able to retire. I love you too, No Wave.
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Oct 12, 2013 01:40
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No Wave posted:If you can really justify a purchase, whatever. But approaching your income like you should be spending 80% of it is totally arbitrary and leads to "feature creep" such as buying more car than you need, renting more house than you need, arbitrarily not buying things on sale, spending $60 per month on puzzles and dragons, feeling the need to upgrade your vacations to match your "disposable" income. Note that disposable income is always a misnomer - it's loving MONEY - unless it no longer brings value, which only makes any sense if you're already able to retire. You're missing my point. It's not right to spend on material things all of the time, and certainly people need to control their spending. However, at the same time, it's not right to be stingy all of the time either. "Bad with money" can refer to either of the cases.
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Oct 12, 2013 07:17
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MM fiddles his figures and also won't buy his daughter braces because his saving money has become some weird pathological obsession. The first point - he says stuff like 'well I didn't buy a boat this month so I've saved a potential outgoing of $20,000!' I really wouldn't take anything ex writes seriously.
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Oct 12, 2013 08:16
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I am OK posted:MM fiddles his figures and also won't buy his daughter braces because his saving money has become some weird pathological obsession. So should you not save money because this one guy has a weird attitude about not buying a boat and braces for his nonexistent daughter?
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Oct 12, 2013 14:12
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| # ? May 14, 2024 00:42 |
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I was talking more along the lines of something like this: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1303815/ Obviously not evidence of some large scale problem but I've seen like 5 threads across fatwallet and bogleheads mentioning premiums doubling-tripling.
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Oct 12, 2013 16:18
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